Why is kindness often viewed as a sign of naïveté?

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨compostgoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

I try to be kind, upbeat, etc in my interactions with other people, especially at work. I want to treat others well, work together peacefully, and leave the project happy. I’ve noticed that some people (particularly more curmudgeonly folks) seem to read that attitude as naïveté, and feel like they can walk all over me or treat me like I don’t know what I’m talking about. Why is that?

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MehBlah@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I treat people being overly kind as deceptive.

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- compostgoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Why is that?
  
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  - HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
    Some people use kindness as deception.
    
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  - Dagwood_Sanwich@lemmy.world ⁨47⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    It’s a common manipulation tactic and one unintelligent people tend to fall for hook, line, and sinker.
    
    I use it all the time at work to lull people into a sense of safety to make them relax and fall back into the behavior I want to nail them for.
    
    Oftentimes a person will do something they’re not supposed to do, but won’t do it around the manager. I’m the assistant manager and for whatever reason, people will do something they’re NOT supposed to do around me and then wonder how the manager keeps finding out. I never let them know it was me and neither does my boss and people simply do not catch on for whatever reason.
    
    I don’t seek out people to report them, but I do have a duty to my manager and the company to make sure everyone does what they’re supposed to. Even had one idiot stealing drinks and offer me one. Don’t steal, it’s not worth your job.
    
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Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
IMO it’s just propaganda, it’s as simple as that. Evil people with no empathy want everyone to turn off their own empathy, so they can use their positions of power to exploit everyone else.

If people (sensibly) think that we should strive to be as kind as possible, it exposes the evil people as being obviously evil when they exploit others, and because we’re trying to be as nice as possible we then wouldn’t tolerate that and we’d take away their power so they can’t exploit people any more.

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- Juice@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Abusers try to stigmatize sympathy and empathy, because as long as it is a stigma then people won’t talk to each other about their own abuse, then the abuser gets away with it. But no matter how strong and powerful an abuser is, even a fairly small number of dedicated, close-knit victims and their supporters can make the abusers lives extremely difficult, if not tip over their power completely.
  
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pseudo@jlai.lu ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Because many people mistake selfishness for strength and intelligence.
However, not matter how wrong they are and how deep in denial they go, at the end of the day mean selfish people are bad people and kind people are good ones.

And these bad people look very stupid when they think they can get away with their bad behavior and the kind not naïve person, just say no and don’t back down.

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thermal_shock@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
“Do not mistake my kindness as weakness”

Some of it is setting boundaries. If you don’t stop certain behavior at the start, it just builds up. For example if your name is Robert, and you prefer Robert, correcting someone who called you “Bob” is first action, otherwise they will keep doing it not knowing any better.

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Chainweasel@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
People sometimes have difficulty walking the line between being nice and being a doormat and let people take advantage of their kindness. This bitters some people and they start to see their own kindness as a weakness.
When this happens they tend to think people who are kind just haven’t had that bad experience yet and that they’re naive about the way the world “really works”.

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- compostgoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  It’s funny, but I feel like I strive to be kind because I’m aware of how the world really works. Like, I’ve been let down by reality and know the world can be a nightmare already, so why would I want to pile even more on someone and make their life harder, you know?
  
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  - shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    “Hello babies. Welcome to Earth. It’s hot in the summer and cold in the winter. It’s round and wet and crowded. On the outside, babies, you’ve got a hundred years here. There’s only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you’ve got to be kind.”
    
    ― Kurt Vonnegut
    
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  - dingus@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    You sound very sweet, OP. Never change. A lot of people are just miserable themselves and want company being miserable.
    
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  - datavoid@lemmy.ml ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Oh, sweet summer child
    
    /s
    
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- drone509@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I think there might be a kind of tragedy of the commons thinking there, as in “Somebody is going to take advantage of this naive person, it may as well be me.”
  
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- dontbelievethis@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Image
  
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Tonava@sopuli.xyz ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
There’s also the stupid belief that being mean = intelligent, which kinda overlaps with this. I somewhat blame House MD for that; that show was popular around the time when the idea got normalized in media, and now it just keeps going and is repeated in multiple ways in movies, series… etc. Rick and Morty is another great example of what that type of portrayal can cause, it’s done terrible damage in making it’s target audience associate meanness and assholery with being intelligent.

You can be both kind and intelligent, these qualities are not linked in real life, just like being naïve and kind are not. This means that being mean doesn’t make anyone look any smarter; it just makes you look like a mean asshole. This also seems to escape a lot of people and worsen the hateful shit both irl and online

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- Juice@midwest.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Its such a trope in movies and TV shows though. I call it the Khan trope. The narrative makes a huge deal about how unfathomably intelligent a villain is, and then when the villain is finally revealed they’re like comically evil with the most superficial and pathetic philosophy. I think its just hard for dumb TV writers (no offense) to write intelligent villains.
  
  To me a much better villain is someone who cares a great deal about something real, and is actually very intelligent and determined, but is just deeply confused about something. People like Tulsi Gabbard or Amy Coney Barret are good examples, they were raised in these weird cults and now they have no understanding of anything outside their narrow view, and have been conditioned to reject anything that contradicts their social beliefs. A lot of people think they are doing good, the people whom they love tell them all the time how proud they are, etc. But because of their intelligence and determination they just are all twisted up in knots inside a house of mirrors that they were forced into before they had the chance to question any of it.
  
  And yeah these people may not be super intelligent, just opportunistic and smart/determined enough and groomed to take power. But it resembles actual intelligence more than “only the strong deserve to survive heh heh heh twirls moustache villainously” that we usually get from this slop.
  
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Apytele@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
It makes people feel better and more in control of themselves to think that their compassion fatigue is maturity instead of an injury that has been inflicted on them.

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DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
People think you are either (a) nice and let people walk all over you, or (b) you have to be evil to be strong. But the truth is you can be in between, you can be both nice and retaliatory in case others are evil to you first.

Its actually the best game-theory strategy, called “Tit-for-Tat”, you be nice to others, but don’t be afraid to retaliate when they start being evil. Because if you don’t retaliate they will take advantage of you.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM

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- lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  But the truth is you can be in between
  
  I think the term for this is assertive. At least that’s how I’ve been defining it. You can be compassionate while also setting boundaries to prevent people from walking all over you.
  
  The best example from my life I can recall is when I was managing the weekend shift for a help desk and one of the techs got a call from a lady who had had a TBI and could not regulate her emotions. She needed some information that was not in our wheelhouse and when this kid told her shed have to call the other department on Monday she went off on him. I took over the call and was eventually able to talk her down and get her to understand that we could not help her and we were not just refusing to by going back and forth with her and keeping my voice even and setting boundaries when she started to get pissed. She was happy with the resolution I came up with by the end of the call. It took like an hour and I felt like I was breaking a horse to get therethough.
  
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- SkyeStarfall@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  With a slight addendum, tit for tat is best, while also allowing for an appropriate amount of forgiveness
  
  Also this short game showcases the concept well ncase.me/trust/
  
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- Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  actual real humans in reality also have this amazing ability to “talk” to each other, allowing them to communicate and say things like “hey you’re being a dick, stop being a dick and we can help each other instead, if you don’t stop then me and everyone i know will throw you into the ocean”
  
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gon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Some people were taught that being an asshole is good; hence, being nice is bad.

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- WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Finna git mine. 💰💲💵 🌐
  
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  - gon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I support your endeavours!
    
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DebatableRaccoon@lemmy.ca ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Because the world is ruled by sociopaths.

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daveywaveyboy@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
You seem to be a nice person. Don’t give up. I hope you find your people and I’d be happy to have positive people like you around me. Do you read about Buddhism and metta at all? When the whole world can show love and respect to themselves and others it will be a better place, and you seem to be there already.

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- compostgoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Thank you 😊
  
  I actually was very into Buddhism a few years ago. I had a better meditation practice then, and I did a lot of reading, some on metta, but moreso insight. I don’t think I’d consider myself a Buddhist, but they have a lot of good ideas!
  
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aceshigh@lemmy.world ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
They see it as a vulnerability they can exploit to get what they want. This is a reminder to use strong boundaries. You can be kind but also strong.

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- compostgoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Knowing when to set boundaries and sticking to them is not one of my strong suits, admittedly. But it’s something I’m working on.
  
  How do you know when to set a boundary? How do you enforce it without feeling like an asshole?
  
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  - aceshigh@lemmy.world ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Check in with yourself during/after interactions and explore your feelings/thoughts that came up. If you experience negative emotions after an interaction, ask yourself why. Did they say or do something that made you feel uncomfortable - ie: being controlling or physically being too close. Keep a list of this and update it. This will tell you what kind of boundaries you need to set and which people violate those boundaries.
    
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Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Assholes like to rationalise their assholery by painting their victims as weak and somehow deserving it. You can very much see that in present day politics but you’ll also meet people like that in real life.

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- Xulai@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Classic wolf vs sheep paranoid reality of toxic individualism.
  
  These people cannot fathom humanity being bigger than “strong kill weak” or “predator / prey / competitor” classifications.
  
  Many men hold this worldview as their reality as the bro culture and toxic masculinity plays right into it.
  
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Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
you will be seen as too trusting and people take advantage of it, and it can be your downfall. i know some people that are pushovers like that, can barely afford bills at this point.

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Jhex@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
That’s just some Murican bullshit, it’s what happens to people raised by reality tv

It’s harder to do the right thing, it’s tough to be truly kind.

Follow your heart and try to make a better world around you

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- blarghly@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  People being dicks to each other is hardly an American phenomenon.
  
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  - Jhex@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    not what I said, but nice attempt at deflection
    
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noretus@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I mean the reason you have to ask is kind of… why

We’re in mostly a capitalistic world. Capitalism makes utilitarianism seem easy since it becomes easy to assign a “value” to everything. That kind of thinking easily gets you to naive cynicism. We’re conditioned to think certain things are more valuable than others - mental wellbeing and community have been steadily devalued.

There’s a saying “behind every cynic there’s a disappointed idealist”. We’re in a world where a lot of people grew up in a time of amazing technological advancement, but have been bitterly disappointed by how the world is today. These people are now getting to that age where they may have been working the same job for a while (if they got lucky with job security) and they just want to get the job done and not exert any more effort than necessary (since by their experience, it doesn’t “pay off”).

Let them be them, you do your thing. They don’t owe you any kind of behavior really, though it would be expected and polite of them to keep things at professional level of course. You don’t owe them either so you don’t have to let them bring you down. Don’t take it personally though because it really, really isn’t.

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How_do_I_computah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Likely because they were once upbeat and positive people too and it didn’t get them what they want so they have changed their ways to be less positive.

So anybody who is still positive, in their experience, hasn’t learned yet that that isn’t going to get them what they want.

It might be a defense mechanism. They were taken advantage of when they were more open and positive.

It might just be bad learned behavior. The people who have what they want aren’t very positive to them.

It is also not easy to stay positive so a lot of people choose not to. Sometimes we like to make excuses for why people are able to do the harder things that we’re not doing. “Oh I would volunteer too if I had as much time as them.”. “Oh I am just not naive enough to be that positive”

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- 474D@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I was gonna say something similar, it’s not so much about being nice, it’s about being happy.
  
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Montagge@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Because the world is a horrible place full of horrible people that need to convince themselves that they’re not horrible people.

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- Bimfred@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Or that everyone else is just as horrible as they are, so they’d feel justified in being a sloppy fart of a person.
  
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  - Bristlecone@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    More and more I think it’s this one. A lot of people have just convinced themselves that nobody’s perfect so it’s okay for them to be a massive piece of shit, too. There’s a lot of people who are not trying to grow or improve
    
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Venus_Ziegenfalle@feddit.org ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I’d say it’s seen more as a sign of insecurity and some people thrive on that. You need to set boundaries or they’ll keep trying things.

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Gradually_Adjusting@lemmy.world ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Rudeness is merely an expression of fear. People fear they won’t get what they want. The most dreadful and unattractive person only needs to be loved, and they will open up like a flower.

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Xanthrax@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
They think you’re easy to take advantage of.

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baconmonsta@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
There are different kinds of kindness. The people-pleasing kind may come across as being naive and triggers some people. Another kind of kindness is to actually care and be curious about others and that usually comes across better.

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- compostgoblin@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I’m a fan of the line from Ted Lasso: be curious, not judgmental. I try approach things from the perspective of “how can we solve this problem”, since I don’t see any good in finger pointing. You can’t change the past.
  
  I’ll admit, I am a people pleaser at times, but it’s something I’ve worked on - identifying the line when I start to be too much of a pushover.
  
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  - baconmonsta@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    That's a good quote.
    
    Also props for recognizing your own people-pleasing tendencies. And I'm glad to hear you've worked on it. It takes time to understand what causes us to be like that. It might be out of fear of rejection or some other unwanted outcome. And it could be based on some irrational assumptions or beliefs.
    
    To be able to accept any outcome in any situation is very difficult, but a strong foundation for confidence and inner peace.
    
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HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I mean no one walks over me but I do get the sorta. oh thats cute. Im not so sure im kind though as much as polite and looking at things in terms of what works and whats right.

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Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Pessimists, like everyone else, feel that their way is the right way, and if you aren’t as miserable as them, you must not be doing something right.

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jaggedrobotpubes@lemmy.world ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Anger spreads. It hates everything that doesn’t inflame it.

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bsit@sopuli.xyz ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Reasons vary between people. It’s not important. If you want to know, ask the people in question.

Don’t think everyone SHOULD be doing it like you. If you feel like being upbeat, be upbeat. ACCEPT not everyone is but they don’t get to force their view on you either.

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RBWells@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I don’t know but sorry this is happening to you. Do not give up. It is certainly not naive, you can be most kind and firm with people, you can be kind and competent. You don’t need to be an asshole to get things done (I’m sure you have figured that out already) and I find that seeing the best in people works out better more of the time, anyway.

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mienshao@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Disagree. In my lived experience, the kindest person in the room is often the smartest.

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- Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  the terrible awful no-good reality is that being kind is just objectively the most effective thing, and obviously the whole reason why us humans have become so powerful.
  
  it’s incredibly easy to show why: you have a tree with 1 apple within easy reach, do you A) give the other person a boost so they can reach all the other apples and then spend the evening gorging with your new friend, or B) FUCKING MURDER THEM and eat the one apple while you watch the life fade from their eyes?
  
  A sane person obviously chooses A, and it’s mind boggling that this has somehow become even remotely debatable.
  
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iii@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner's_dilemma

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HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Some people have bad experiences where they lost trust in people and therefore treat the lack of trust as experience. That if you aren’t as paranoid as they are, you don’t know as much as they do.

Also, some people are bad to work with or are mediocre at their jobs, especially at communication. This is how they cover for themselves. It isn’t their fault that they messed up, you didn’t tell them something that they should have realized they should have asked but it is easier just to blame you.

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