My wife has a 2016 Honda Odyssey, and having grown up working on cars because my dad was a mechanic, I was shocked to learn that there is no transmission fluid dip stick. It’s considered a closed system and never needs to have the fluid changed, allegedly.
New Cars Don't All Come With Dipsticks Anymore, Here's Why
Submitted 10 months ago by Quilotoa@lemmy.ca to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.jalopnik.com/1861552/why-new-cars-dont-have-dipsticks/
Comments
boaratio@lemmy.world 10 months ago
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
The U660F in my wife’s 2015 Highlander doesn’t have a transmission dipstick. Luckily that transmission is solid and easy to service anyway, you just need a skinny funnel to fill it.
innermachine@lemmy.world 10 months ago
It’s a lifetime fluid! For the life of ur transmission! If it’ll make it to 100k miles they could care less what happens after that. When your 16 odyssey needs a transmission at 130 are u gonna put 6k into it or go buy a other car?
GeeDubHayduke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
No, see, they just relocated the dipstick. You can locate it just behind the steering wheel, right above the driver’s seat.
boaratio@lemmy.world 10 months ago
PEBKAC.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 10 months ago
PEBCAC (car and chair lol)
umbrella@lemmy.ml 10 months ago
reinventing the wheel in the DUMBEST way possible at best.
planned obsolescence when the sensors inevitably fail at worst.
3abas@lemm.ee 10 months ago
This is a reactionary response, you’re just arguing, slow down a bit.
Do you see a value in a check engine light that tells you something is wrong in between full inspections? This is similar, this is telling you there isn’t enough oil and damage is occurring before you get a chance to inspect the dipstick.
It’s not planned obsolescence unless they also make it unreasonable to service. We already expect to routinely service engines, and they are already very complex and full of sensors, sure this is adding to the complexity but it’s relatively pretty minor.
The argument being made, and I agree with it, is that the benefits of an additional long-serving sensor way outweigh the con of having one additional sensor in your car. You get early warning before damage occurs, you get built in fraud protection when you’re changing your oil at a shady chain, you eliminate a direct access port for dirt to contaminate the oil.
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 10 months ago
I’ve had a car with where the oil pressure sensor failed; combine that with an oil leak, and you quickly have a major problem. So, what happens when the sensor telling you the oil level fails? A dipstick is extremely unlikely to ever fail to work correctly, so…?
blarghly@lemmy.world 10 months ago
You would think an engineer would understand this… I assume this is a decision from management.
Croquette@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Engineers are people like everyone else and some people have no qualms fucking over other people for money.
Red_October@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The Engineer was also told they would get a bonus if they could make maintenance more common and more expensive under the guise of improved technology.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 10 months ago
“Grok told me this was the right thing. Nom nom, this superglue bathsalt pizza is delicious”
daggermoon@lemmy.world 10 months ago
This reminds me of funny American commercial from when I was a kid
intheformbelow@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Oil is essential. However, those manufacturers that claim you have to change synthetic oil three times a year are full of shit.
EtherWhack@lemmy.world 10 months ago
That chronological duration is more of an estimate based on how much the “average” car may be driven and is just to give someone an idea of the frequency.
The standard for cars built for synthetic (“conventional” cars may have a bit more susceptibility to contamination, so they normally have shorter durations) usually usually go for 10-15k miles (~16-24k km). So going 30-45k miles in a year isn’t really unheard of. (Some cars are much less, while others like company cars/taxis can be more than double)
TonyOstrich@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I know it can last longer than that, but I think there is a benefit to doing so even if it doesn’t need changed that often. It’s the same reason I have my mechanic do my oil changes instead of doing them myself. It’s so that they can look at the rest of the car and let me know about problems before they become a much more expensive fix. Kinda like going to a doctor for a yearly checkup and blood work.
I can fix almost anything on a car if I know what the issue is and have the shop manual, but I don’t work on cars enough to know all warning signs or quickly diagnose things.
However, I do realize how difficult it can be to find a mechanic that is trustworthy, competent, and reasonably priced. I’m generally not a fan of dealership mechanics or the places that are dedicated to cheap oil changes. Not saying none of them have good mechanics, but it can be hit or miss.
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Depends on how much you drive, and what the recommended interval is. If the interval is 7k miles, and you drive 18k in a year, yeah, you need to change the oil 3x/year.
It seems to me that counting the number of cycles each makes, and basing your intervals off that would make more sense than mileage. If I’m constantly running at high RPM, that should require more frequent oil changes in terms of mileage.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Just forcing more people towards mechanics. Can’t see levels or if there might be an issue with a lubricant, so if you burn up a transmission, guess you gotta buy a new one.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 10 months ago
I’ve wondered this for a while and this seems like a good time to ask: Do electric cars use motor oil in the same way as an internal combustion vehicle?
vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de 10 months ago
i have oil in the differential that needs occasional replacement
JeremyHuntQW12@lemmy.world 10 months ago
It still has oil in the transmission. And yes, you are supposed to change it occasionally because its high slip friction oil that burns over time.
gnu@lemmy.zip 10 months ago
Electric cars do have oil that will ultimately need changing but it’s less exposed to contaminants than the engine oil in a internal combustion engine and therefore will last a lot longer. EVs typically have a reduction gearbox and differential and these will require oil changes in a similar fashion to a manual gearbox or differential in a ICE vehicle - i.e. barring exceptional circumstances it will last long enough to get out of warranty but don’t believe it will never need changing.
IphtashuFitz@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Nope. The only fluid I worry about in my EV is windshield wiper fluid.
intheformbelow@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Eventually, you’ll have to top up your blinker fluid as well.
AlDente@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
No brake calipers or power steering onboard?
Zdvarko@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Got my mechanic to replace the transmission fluid in mine after 80,000km, cost $90NZD
raldone01@lemmy.world 10 months ago
And the blinker one right? EVs still have that afaik.
ShawiniganHandshake@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
I’m not sure if this is universally true but I’ve never seen a fully electric vehicle that uses motor oil. Hybrid vehicles with an internal combustion engine and an electric drive train would still need it, of course.
MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 months ago
Because manufacturers are scummy, that’s why.
JeremyHuntQW12@lemmy.world 10 months ago
If you can’t check the oil, you can’t complain to the dealer can you ? Once the warranty’s over good luck proving anything.
They’re not that dumb.
Ulrich@feddit.org 10 months ago
Back when I worked at a BMW store we had to, after changing the oil, start up the vehicle and get it up to temperature before it would give us a reading. Several times the vehicle caught on fire for some reason during this process. So fucking stupid.
The real reason is that owners would not reseat the dipstick properly, which would cause a vacuum leak and a lean fuel mixture that would trigger the CEL.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
The real reason is that owners would not reseat the dipstick properly, which would cause a vacuum leak and a lean fuel mixture that would trigger the CEL.
That is absolutely piss-poor design. But definitely a BMW thing to do.
m4ylame0wecm@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Vendor tech does maintenance and fails to check critical component of system blames customer
Good tech.
rottingleaf@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I mean, easily catching fire is a thing since German tanks in WWII, so yes.
FireWire400@lemmy.world 10 months ago
This proactive approach helps to avert potential engine damage
Ah yes, the old “you’re too stupid to do anything by yourself, so we kindly prevent you from trying”
blarghly@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I mean, I honestly don’t have a problem with a notification telling me I need to top off my oil, or telling me I’ve driven enough that it is time for the scheduled maintenance. I just also want to be able to manually check the oil level with a dip stick.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 months ago
To be fair, when you drive a dangerous vehicle on a public road, you’re not only putting yourself in danger.
I’m not saying that we shouldn’t ever trust people to do their own repairs, but just thought i’d play devil’s advocate
FireWire400@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I mean, yeah, most people probably don’t know what they’re doing but does that mean that no one should be able to fix their own stuff any more?
JeremyHuntQW12@lemmy.world 10 months ago
This is why it was removed from auto transmissions, people would overfill their transmissions and it would froth up and burn out the clutches.
pHr34kY@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I would argue that it adds a new failure point, and a catastrophic one at that.
Yes, many hunans don’t monitor their oil properly. I’ve seen some destroy engines because they thought the low oil light could be ignored for a week.
Even if you still had the dipstick, owners would become reliant on the sensor and grenade the engine when it gets it wrong. Remember how Teslas had hoods that flew open while driving? The problem wasn’t the latch. The problem was owners relying on a crappy sensor.
cornshark@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Why the clickbait? Just put why in the title or post description
IllNess@infosec.pub 10 months ago
New Cars Don’t All Come With Dipsticks Anymore Because Of Digital Oil Level Measurement
Luffy879@lemmy.ml 10 months ago
Let me guess, this Digital Measurement is only availible to CeRtIfIeD tEcHnIcIaNs iNtO wHoSe aSsHoLe we pUsHeD oUr fInGeR at lEAsT 30 Cm?
KingPorkChop@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
I hate all these automatic sensors in new cars. I don’t usually buy new cars, I get ones that are a few years used. Almost all of them have a light on the dash for a “tire error” because the stupid sensor has died and no one in their right mind wants to spend $300 to replace a thing that tells you your tire pressure is low. Plus, the things die in a few years anyway.
I just do the Homer Simpson solution and put a bit of black tape over the tire error light.
Buelldozer@lemmy.today 10 months ago
$300? A TPS sensor replacement should cost like $75 including the sensor itself.
sauce@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
A tire pressure sensor sensor? And the tire pressure sensor sensor includes the sensor itself? 😉
KingPorkChop@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
About $300 is what the mechanics in the area usually charge. The dealership is more.
HotsauceHurricane@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Sounds like a scam by big oil to sell more oil.
hperrin@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
My wife’s electric car doesn’t have a dipstick.
dan1101@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Unless you’re sitting in it. ;)
underline960@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Tl;dr: Here’s a higher quality source: Why the Reliable Dipstick is Sliding into Obsolescence
The article is really lazy about citing its sources.
many cars don’t come with dipsticks anymore. Some sources say
Are these some sources in the room with us?
it’s because automakers don’t trust us to use them, so why make them? (That’s kind of along the lines of rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it, right?) Or maybe it’s some kind of conspiracy to keep drivers coming in for oil changes more often.
This is like an eighth grader padding out a book report.
But in actuality, it’s because a lot of things are going digital.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
The customer has to pop the hood. They might get their hands dirty. It’s not the modern way of doing things
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
I have a better source:
MONEY
Blue_Morpho@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Knowing the exact oil level is very important for new cars. The piston rings are now made of softer metal to get a few more mpgs. If you overfill oil, you will get blow by, damage the rings, and start burning oil. Toyota now has an involved process of changing oil, running the engine, then topping off the oil while the engine is hot so as to not overfill. But not even my dealer follows that official procedure Toyota put in their manual.
Jimmycakes@lemmy.world 10 months ago
If the dealer isn’t doing that and you know about it what are we even talking about. Pretty casual well I’m paying them to fuck my engine oh well anyway
Zak@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I don’t like it because:
- I want to look at the oil and smell it, not just check the level.
- I don’t know the failure modes for the sensor, so I can’t trust that the absence of a complaint from it means the oil level is correct.
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
Exactly
Right now there is no better detection system than in
- Seeing the oil level
- seeing the oil color
- smelling the oil content
- feeling the oil viscosity and any contamination
thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 10 months ago
my 2008 BMW doesn’t have a dipstick
nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 10 months ago
my 2008 BMW doesn’t have a dipstick
Sure it does, it is in the driver’s seat.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
haha yea its a COCK for your ASS
pastermil@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
Wrong. That’s dipshit. Subtle difference.
thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 10 months ago
it’s a sweet silver E93 with no damage and still under 75k miles. It’s a sweet transformer!
It only cost $12k but looks and drives like a $50k car
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
My cyber truck doesn’t have a dipstick and I’m mad as hell about it. I bought it to feel like more of a man and I feel like less of man without a dipstick.
thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 10 months ago
it’s still got at least one or two USB ports, you could still plug in Lil trythis
Technofrood@feddit.uk 10 months ago
I thought the dipstick in a cybertruck is usually found behind the steering wheel
n3cr0@lemmy.world 10 months ago
This sounds like an old Mercedes problem: Why even having a dipstick when there isn’t any drain bolt? The Mechanic sucks all the oil from the top using a vacuum. Grime buildup down in the oil pan? Ain’t care! The car will break anyway, once it’s out of warranty.
Cocodapuf@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Woah… I’d say it’s time for a major modification… I wouldn’t be able to deal with owning something so dumb.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
many small motorbikes in southeast asia are like this. i do not understand the design
thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 10 months ago
the vacuum oil change is a standard in watercraft, so its not that revolutionary
I hated raising my VW Jetta so I would oil change it with a hand pump vacuum, it worked great
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 10 months ago
New cars absolutely do have dipsticks; they’re the ones designing them.
Notwithstanding the potential for software bugs or other issues inherent with monitoring oil levels only digitally, monitoring just the oil level is not the sole purpose of the dipstick. Being able to physically see a sample of the engine oil is a vital diagnostic tool and can alert an owner or mechanic to a head gasket problem or other oil contamination issue, or if something is grinding metal shavings into the oil, etc.
For what it’s worth I have yet to actually physically see a new vehicle without an oil dipstick. I guess they’re out there, but so far I’ve been lucky. But I have already had quite a few automatic transmission equipped cars without a transmission dipstick cross my path, and that’s already enough of a pain in the ass. If you’re lucky there’s a side plug in the transmission case you can use to check the fluid condition and level (after crawling under the vehicle…) but in a lot of cases there isn’t even that – your only recourse is to drop the transmission pan off entirely, which causes you to lose all the fluid in the process. And you’ll probably also have to replace the gasket while you’re at it. Needless to say, this is an incredibly moronic design decision.
falynns@lemmy.world 10 months ago
This reads like more AI slop. I miss when Jalopnik had real articles.