Are most people here left-wing?

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Submitted ⁨⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Hickak@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

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NeilBru@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
There is no such thing as liberalism — or progressivism, etc.

There is only conservatism. No other political philosophy actually exists; by the political analogue of Gresham’s Law, conservatism has driven every other idea out of circulation.

There might be, and should be, anti-conservatism; but it does not yet exist. What would it be? In order to answer that question, it is necessary and sufficient to characterize conservatism. Fortunately, this can be done very concisely.

Conservatism consists of exactly one proposition, to wit:

There must be in-groups whom the law protectes but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect.

There is nothing more or else to it, and there never has been, in any place or time.

For millenia, conservatism had no name, because no other model of polity had ever been proposed. “The king can do no wrong.” In practice, this immunity was always extended to the king’s friends, however fungible a group they might have been. Today, we still have the king’s friends even where there is no king (dictator, etc.). Another way to look at this is that the king is a faction, rather than an individual.

As the core proposition of conservatism is indefensible if stated baldly, it has always been surrounded by an elaborate backwash of pseudophilosophy, amounting over time to millions of pages. All such is axiomatically dishonest and undeserving of serious scrutiny. Today, the accelerating de-education of humanity has reached a point where the market for pseudophilosophy is vanishing; it is, as The Kids Say These Days, tl;dr . All that is left is the core proposition itself — backed up, no longer by misdirection and sophistry, but by violence.

So this tells us what anti-conservatism must be: the proposition that the law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone, and cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.

Then the appearance arises that the task is to map “liberalism”, or “progressivism”, or “socialism”, or whateverthefuckkindofstupidnoise-ism, onto the core proposition of anti-conservatism.

No, it a’n’t. The task is to throw all those things on the exact same burn pile as the collected works of all the apologists for conservatism, and start fresh. The core proposition of anti-conservatism requires no supplementation and no exegesis. It is as sufficient as it is necessary. What you see is what you get:

The law cannot protect anyone unless it binds everyone; and it cannot bind anyone unless it protects everyone.

Frank Wilhoit
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- 60d@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Thanks, Frank! Very eloquently put!
  
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nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
worldwide, I would put most people on the right side of the American left/right. there are a lot of people in south asia for example. China and Southeast Asia are conservative as fuck also. without looking at a Wikipedia table I think that’s probably most people already

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- Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The American “left” is on the far-right of almost every other country in the world. Not right, not even center. You need recalibrating
  
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  - nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    you are thinking of the western countries, not the world. most of the worlds population is not the west
    
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  - RandomVideos@programming.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    There are a lot of countries where being gay results in prison or death
    
    In my country (one where its technically illegal to insult people based on their sexual orientation), a candidate that wants to make civil unions legal for same-sex couples is considered left-wing because of that
    
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ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Yes. Signing up is not easy. Most people here can understand written instructions and have some basic technical knowledge. People who are not stupid tend to lean left.

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zxqwas@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
My priorities in politics is:

Don’t wreck the economy.

Uphold the rule of law.

In my country that makes me right leaning. In the US with the current president that apparently makes me a leftist.
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- ivanafterall@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Oh dear, here come the tankies!
  
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- ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  You communist!
  
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Tungsten5@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It does seem that way from what I’ve seen. What am I? I’m the guy whose got it figured out. Always vote for the worst candidate. Its reverse psychology and works like a charm

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Opinionhaver@feddit.uk ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I don’t adopt views wholesale—I evaluate each issue on an individual basis, so my views tend to be a mixed bag. From a political standpoint, most people would probably see me as an unreliable ally as my views can be hard to predict. While I agree with many, if not most, “left-wing” ideas, there are still plenty of others that would get me labeled as a Nazi MAGA Republican.

That said, on Lemmy I’m definitely in the minority when it comes to holding certain beliefs that many would label “right-wing,” even though on other issues I can out–left-wing even most leftists.

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libra00@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I am extremely left-wing, so probably skew the average all by myself. :P

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Sk3rgi0@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m all for the better man (or woman, or whatever). If we see eye to eye on all the important stuff then I’ll vote for you if I’m legally allowed. I don’t care about your affiliations as much as your history and your record as a public servant. Hence, why I always vote Dem because there’s absolutely NOTHING but pussy ass nazi bitches in the GOP.

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- libra00@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I think most people feel this way, right? Like you are left-leaning if you like the policies in left-wing platforms put forth by left-wing parties, so you vote for the left-wing candidates who advocate for them. Likewise, candidates are left-wing because they are members of such parties and advocate for such policies. So saying ‘I only vote for people on the basis of their policies and voting record’ is like saying ‘I only drink water when it’s wet’—technically true, but it misses the point that the thing you’re selecting already comes with the quality you’re claiming to prioritize.
  
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IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m team right-wing.

The right chicken wing is always tastier, so I eat that first.

Edit: Wait, this is politics? Wrong thread.

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- agamemnonymous@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I promote right-wing policies: you should always use the right wings for your airplane, using whatever wings you happen to have left in stock is a recipe for disaster. Left-wing policies are dangerous.
  
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  - OpenStars@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Do you work at Boeing? 😜
    
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- BleatingZombie@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Do Twix have wings?
  
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- TheFudd@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  See, this is why so many right-wingers are seen as simply not intelligent enough to understand basic science. Numerous studies have shown that the left-wing is on average, plumper, juicier, and more tender.
  
  I bet you probably also believe those wing pieces with two bones are better than the big one-bone wings that look like little chicken legs, too. Typical right-winger, your brain has been melted by right-wing propaganda.
  
  Sorry, but reality has a left-wing bias. Educate yourself, and do better.
  
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pubquiz@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
By LEFT do you infer compassion, empathy, and class solidarity? In contrast, by RIGHT do you infer me-first, only my rights matter and only those in my clan deserve to be cared about?

Then, yes.

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- thisdude1092@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Spoken like a true liberal.
  
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- Tungsten5@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Well we know where you stand without doubt
  
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Korrok@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I hope so

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FeelzGoodMan420@eviltoast.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Is the sky blue?

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anonymouse2@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Is there a difference? Chicken is chicken. But I do like flats more than drums.

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- edgemaster72@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I’ll take your drums, you can have my flats.
  
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Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Not only that, I’ve tried pitching the fediverse to right wing people, but they didn’t bite.

Even the crypto bros that were all about decentralization couldn’t see why a decentralized social media platform was superior.

This also didn’t matter for people who care about “free speech”.

You think the allure of being fully independent and having your own instance would be right up their alley given how they value independence, but nope.

Seriously? Why isn’t there a right wing instance? My guess is that a right wing person can’t fathom owning something that benefits others which doesn’t give them back profit.

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- Letme@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  “free speech”, as your quotation marks imply, does not really exist outside of theory. In reality, free speech is a set of laws governing hate speech or other dangerous speech.
  
  Both the right and the left have ideas of what they think these laws should be.
  
  But there is no such thing as “free speech” in the real world.
  
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- tocano@lemmy.today ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Maybe they would like nostr more
  
  en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nostr
  
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- amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  there are 3 major right-wing instances: lemmy.ml(ran by the Lemmy developers), lemmygrad.ml(the openly fascist version of lemmy.ml) and hexbear.net.
  
  if anyone wants to argue, I don’t. Anyone supporting Russia is right-wing.
  
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  - gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Authoritarianism is inherently conservative
    
    Sorry, but no
    
    There’s a reason the step up from just left/right axis is the up/down of libertarian v authoritarian. Auth-left is very much a thing and is what tankies are
    
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- libra00@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Like everything on the right, decentralization is a means to an end, not a value in itself. They only care about it when it’s useful for helping them get ahead. Just like they only care about free speech when it’s them speaking to people who don’t want to hear their bullshit.
  
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- FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Trump’s tremendous social media platform truth dot barf runs on Activity Pub, they just don’t federate with anyone by default. It’s like they don’t want dissenting views on there. Weird.
  
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- dev_null@lemmy.ml ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Because “crypto bros” care about making money, not any ideology, except in a performative sense. If you pitched the fediverse to the original researchers inventing cryptocurrency and the early adopters, they would likely be receptive. But these are no longer associated with the current crypto crowd.
  
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  - Fredthefishlord@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    They don’t care about making money, they care about gambling and having a gambling addiction and trying to justify it
    
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- Adderbox76@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  You think the allure of being fully independent and having your own instance would be right up their alley given how they value independence, but nope.
  
  Because it’s not about freedom of speech for them, it’s about freedom to force people to listen. Having their own server where they can shout at each other all day doesn’t serve their purpose. Their panties get wet by forcing others to listen.
  
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- Sidyctism2@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  i think there were one two right wing instances, but they got defederated from everyone
  
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  - lord_ryvan@ttrpg.network ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Which were they? As in what was their domain name?
    
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  - Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Do they still exist? I’m honestly curious if they are active or if it’s abandoned
    
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- xigoi@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Why isn’t there a right wing instance?
  
  Because all other instances would assume that it’s for Nazis and defederate.
  
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spittingimage@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Most people everywhere are slightly left of centre. Most leaders everywhere are slightly right of centre*.

*Not in the American sense. Y’all crazy.

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CaptainBasculin@lemmy.bascul.in ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I align more to the right, but in Turkey political leaning doesn’t really matter, the thing that matters is whether you’re siding with Erdogan or not. Like, Imamoglu is a president candidate supported by the left leaning party CHP, but I would absolutely vote for him against our current dictator.

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- amino@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  CHP are Kemalists. idk how anyone worshipping that genocider could be called left-wing (maybe if you’re an ethno-nationalist?). I’d say the real left wing in Turkey would be the Kurdish people fighting for autonomy, the feminists and queers fighting the cops in the streets and the union movements.
  
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  - CaptainBasculin@lemmy.bascul.in ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Mustafa Kemal has absolutely nothing to do with any genocide when the whole thing occured under Ottoman Empire (specifically, under Enver Pasha’s command), CHP is one of the parties that rallied the protests against Erdogan, and want better laws for all sorts of people like lgbtq, immigrants and kurds.
    
    I personally disagree with giving more rights to immigrants and don’t like the idea of negotiations with terrorist organizations to divide the country, but am in favor of improving any citizen’s life overall regardless of their sex, religion or ethnicity.
    
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Dropper_Post@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
No homo

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Lexam@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I’m left handed. I don’t have wings.

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Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
If you consider Democrats left wing then yes, by far the most here are left wing, since by most European standards Democrats are clearly right wing.

Republicans are extreme right by most standards. Republican (MAGA) is basically an American version of AfD!
So by that standard I guess about 80% here is left wing.

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rabber@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Yeah right wing opinions will just get you banned on most instances

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- MBech@feddit.dk ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The rules are usually really quite simple. Don’t be a dick and don’t spread hate. If “right wing opinions” can’t stay out of those simple rules, they’re not right wing opinions, they’re bigots and that has never and will never be okay.
  
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  - libra00@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Listen, there are assholes everywhere, and even mild centrists can be dicks and break the rules. We can speak about tendencies and generalizations if you like, but there are plenty of people who aren’t bigots who are giant flaming assholes on social media.
    
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- Takapapatapaka@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Apart from the Tankie Triad, i’d doubt right wing opinions would get you banned (i’m not against believe it if i saw some examples though).
  
  Hate speech and promotion of oppressions that right wingers tend to consider as simple ‘opinions’ might though.
  
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  - OpenStars@piefed.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Maybe in certain communities? Some power tripping mods do exist. Likely they could be reported to the instance admins and possibly removed for such a scenario. It's happened before in some extremely high profile cases.
    
    Downvoting the admin of Midwest.social would get you banned though.
    
    Fortunately there are communities such as !yepowertrippinbastards@lemmy.dbzer0.com that help spread knowledge of such information across the Threadiverse.
    
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Ideonek@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Maybe. But your impression of it may be skewed, buceoyse there are a lot of non-USA people here. That couse some mismatch in therma that tend to overwaight the perceived size of left-leaning people. But it’s terminology, really. What in USA is considered “left” more-or-less align with what is considered left outside of USA. But what an average Trump supporter call “conservative”, in the rest of the word is simply know as lunacy.

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- ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  What in USA is considered “left” more-or-less align with what is considered left outside of USA
  
  What is considered left in the USA is largely considered center or center right outside of the USA
  
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  - Ideonek@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Well, it’s a big and heterogeneous “outside” if we want to be nitpicky about it.
    
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Skyrmir@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Right wingers have, or cause, trouble in open forums, so most social media that isn’t operated as a walled garden, tends to be more left leaning.

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- untakenusername@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Depends on what kinda right wingers your talking about Ik a few people who believe in more laissez-faire free market economic policies, and they’re pretty chill
  
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Forester@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
This is a platform full of new people adventurers change makers. The majority of people who would be interested in this platform will have a more progressive bent. So the majority of people here will be more accepting of liberal policies.

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- thisdude1092@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Just say yes
  
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- surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  it’s full of new people,
  
  Don’t be ridiculous. I’m not a new people. I’ve been a people for almost my whole life. I bet most of us have.
  
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  - libra00@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Not me, I’ve only been a person for the past couple years. Prior to that I was a caffeine-powered AI.
    
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- Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Quibble: Many here are explicitly leftist, in the a leftist-not-liberal sense, and will even use “liberal” derogatorily. So, progressive, yes, but liberal, not necessarily.
  
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  - hypnicjerk@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    to make matters more fun, many ‘explicitly leftist’ lemmings are tankies (blind supporters of russia, china, north korea, etc), who are explicitly not leftist but authoritarians masquerading in the skinsuit of the people’s revolution.
    
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  - libra00@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Good point, many think left = liberal = US democrats who are centrists at best from the international perspective. So no, most people on here probably aren’t actual leftists, but I’m guessing when they say they ‘lean left’ they mean US-liberal-not-conservative, not socialist or whatever.
    
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  - Forester@pawb.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    From my perspective I think that that is very silly. I don’t care for purity tests, but what would I know? I’m just a dirty libertarian.
    
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MiniMoose4Free@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
People that cry they are being silenced will say yes.

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IndieSpren@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
yes

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