Considering that RAM is shared with the GPU, it’s still not enough.
16GB of RAM Could Be the New Minimum in Apple's Upcoming M4 Macs
Submitted 2 months ago by nave@lemmy.ca to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.macrumors.com/2024/08/26/apple-new-macs-16gb-ram-standard/
Comments
cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
floofloof@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
It’s OK - for an extra $400 they’ll sell you one with an extra $50 worth of RAM.
JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
It doesn’t even cost that for them.
scottmeme@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
$800 for $30 of ram
PoopMonster@lemmy.world 2 months ago
“yeah but that’s like having 32GB on a lame PC”
freeman@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
I remember an Apple fanboy arguing that this made things better!
cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
It does make some things better, but there are a number of downsides too. The biggest downside is that it’s not practical to make the memory socketed because of the speed that’s required.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 months ago
They balance that out by having almost no games for the Mac anyway.
Pantsofmagic@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It’s really sad that this needs to be an actual headline.
mods_mum@lemmy.today 2 months ago
Lol, right? I had a dell laptop with 16GB in 2010. How are apple customers ok with this?
Pantsofmagic@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Even phones have been available with more than 8 gigs of ram for ~5 years
eager_eagle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
for the same price other laptops sell for 64GB
what a bargain
HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Whoa, that’s like 32GB of Windows RAM. Seems excessive to me tbh
lengau@midwest.social 2 months ago
My Linux machine has 64 GiB of RAM, which is like 128 GiB of Mac RAM. It’s still not enough
areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Serious question what are you using all that RAM for? I am having a hard time justifying upgrading one of my laptops to 32 GiB, nevermind 64 GiB.
areyouevenreal@lemm.ee 2 months ago
The annoying thing is I have had people claim that 8GB and 16GB is fine on Apple and works better than on PC laptops. To the point one redditor point blank refused to believe I owned an Apple laptop. I literally had to take a photograph of said laptop and show it to them before they would believe me about the RAM capacity.
x00z@lemmy.world 2 months ago
You should have said “sure buddy” and ignored them.
HauntedCupcake@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I own a 8GB MacBook Pro for work, it’s definitely better than a PC with 8GB of RAM, but not better or even close to a PC with 16GB. Just the amount of stutters/freezes while the swap file goes is insane
tb_@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Does it?
Previous benchmarks have shown the 8 GB models seriously fell behind in performance.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 months ago
Yeah I think the joke just flew over your head.
Apple keeps saying that their RAM is somehow magic and therefore better than Windows RAM, which is a comment that obviously makes no sense.
T156@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Ironically, it’s the other way around, since Apple has to share their RAM between GPU and CPU, where other computers typically have them separately.
So in normal usage with 8 GB, you’re automatically down to 7, since at least 1GB would be taken by the graphics card. More if you’re doing anything reasonably graphics-heavy with it.
cryptix@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
AI Models needs that RAM to load models.
cheddar@programming.dev 2 months ago
Is it like SI RAM vs US Customary RAM?
Hadriscus@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Yes. Freedom RAM equals approx. 1.6 metric RAMs. Unless your computer is on water, in which case it’s 1.857
JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 2 months ago
…is this actually 16Gb or 8Gb feeling like 16Gb, as per previous statements?
echodot@feddit.uk 2 months ago
I think perhaps they realize the Apple magic is worn off and people have shockingly realized that 8 GB is in fact 8 GB.
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
I can report that the magic wore off for me with my 8gb M2 Mac mini.
daddy32@lemmy.world 2 months ago
…in 2030.
mechoman444@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Oooo a whole 16 gigs! It can run Firefox with more than four tabs open!
Omgboom@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Linux requirements: CPU (optional)
carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
i wonder if it’s actually possible to install linux on a machine without a CPU
T156@lemmy.world 2 months ago
These days, the CPU probably runs Linux on itself.
Storage drive control boards are basically small computers in their own right, now.
frunch@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Paper Linux, computing done olde world style 📜 🤖
padge@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
My sister just bought a MacBook Air for college, and I had to beg her to spend the extra money on 16gb of memory. It feels like a scam that it appears cheap with the starting at price, but nobody should actually go with those “starting at” specs.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 months ago
Yeah it’s about future proofing. 8 GB might be okay for basic browsing and text editing now, but in the future that might not be the case. Also in my experience people who only want to do basic browsing and word editing, end up inevitably wanting to do more complex things and not understanding that their device is not capable of it.
padge@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Exactly. I told her that 8gb might be fine for a year or two, but if she wants this thousand plus dollar laptop to last four years she needs to invest the extra money now. Especially once she told me she might want to play Minecraft or Shadow of the Tomb Raider on it
Nomecks@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Golly, thanks Apple. It’s not like I can go buy a 256GB DIMM right now. 16GB what a joke.
potentiallynotfelix@lemdro.id 2 months ago
And it probably won’t be able to be upgraded by the user, which should be the bare minimum.
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
And it
probablyabsolutely guaran-fucking-teed won’t be able to be upgraded by the user, which should be the bare minimum.Petter1@lemm.ee 2 months ago
You loose performance by making RAM upgradeable, hope the new RAM design, where you can install ram as if it was soldered in, is coming soon:
KoalaUnknown@lemmy.world 2 months ago
MacBooks have an SoC, so it doesn’t make sense for the ram to be upgradable.
potentiallynotfelix@lemdro.id 2 months ago
An SOC is a bad idea for laptops in my opinion, it just makes it harder to repair and less modular. I understand that it helps to compact the device, but it should only be used in phones if at all.
cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
and maximum since you probably won’t be able to upgrade it
stellargmite@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yeh can upgrade them at purchase. From 256gb storage to 512gb will only cost you one kidney.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 months ago
It’s not an upgrade though it’s just a different model. They’re not modules you can install and I don’t even think Apple can install them you just get a different motherboard.
Which is objectionable for so many reasons, not least of all E-Waste.
nagaram@startrek.website 2 months ago
I don’t really care unless it has the same price point as the 8gb one.
But we all know it won’t be.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 months ago
£15 more RAM. £150 more price.
qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 2 months ago
nagaram@startrek.website 2 months ago
$1000-$1100 is still a lot to ask of me specifically, but that is closer to market IMHO
flop_leash_973@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Naturally the price for the cheapest model will also be going to up several orders of magnitude more than the cost of materials, labor, and healthy profit margin to account for that as well I’m sure.
qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 2 months ago
In 1999, the iBook was US$1599 (equivalent to $2925 in 2023) (source).
The 2010 13" Air was $1299 (more in today’s $) (source).
The current 13" M3 Air is $1099 (source).
So yeah, they may well raise prices, but the cost of Apple’s entry-level hardware has decreased in absolute terms over the years, and has decreased substantially if inflation is taken into account. Not to say the margins aren’t higher (no idea about that), but it’s interesting.
realitista@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Yeah it’s when you need a reasonable amount of RAM or disk that they really bend you over.
Toes@ani.social 2 months ago
Why are apple products always so anemic on memory?
Munkisquisher@lemmy.nz 2 months ago
Greed, it lowers the advertised price, but once you spec it decently you’ve added a grand in extras
DJDarren@thelemmy.club 2 months ago
Because a huge part of their business model over the past twenty years has been the upsell.
I bought my first MacBook in 2007. It had 2gb of RAM as standard. I asked about upgrading it, the guy told me to pick some up online as it would be waaaay cheaper, and he was right. Did the same for the MacBook Pro that replaced it a few years later, but in the meantime they moved to the soldered model so had to swallow the cost of the 16gb ‘upgrade’ in my M2 Air.
To be fair, the cost over time of my Macs has been incredible. My 2011 MBP is still trucking along, these days running Linux Mint. With the cost to upgrade the RAM and replace the HDD with an SSD, all in it cost me around £1200. Less than £100 a year for a laptop that still works perfectly fine.
masterspace@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Let me know how many multiple thousands of dollars it’s going to cost for a chip that can be so bold as to run three external monitors.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Good, 8 is unusable for my workloads and 12 feels like they’re just fucking with us
reddig33@lemmy.world 2 months ago
“640k ought to be enough for anybody.”
cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
i could run wing commander 2, ultima underworld, and lands of lore. who needs any more?
OmegaLemmy@discuss.online 2 months ago
I always thought 8gb was a fine amount for daily use if you never did anything too heavy, are apps really that ram intense now?
Someonelol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Imagine how far you can go on 8GB of RAM if every piece of software were still well optimized and free of bloat.
Liz@midwest.social 2 months ago
Recently I downloaded Chrome for some testing that I wanted to let separate from my Firefox browser. After a while I realized my computer was always getting hot every time I opened chrome. I took a look at the system monitor: chrome was using 30% of of my CPU power to play a single YouTube video in the background. What the fuck? I ended up switching the testing environment over the libreWolf and CPU load went down to only 10%.
Demdaru@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Stop. You’re scaring todays companies. Optimization? That’s a no-no word.
Now please eat whole ass libraries imported for one function, or that react + laravel site which amounts to most stock bootsrap looking blog.
T156@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yes. Just as 4GB was barely enough a decade ago.
I usually find myself either capping out the 8GN of RAM on my laptop, or getting close to it if I have Firefox, Discord and a word processor open. Especially if I have Youtube or Spotify going.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 months ago
I can get over 8 GB just running Discord, Steam, Shapes2
I am pretty sure most of that is just discord.
InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
RAM is cheaper than my time.
I kinda consider 32GB as a minimum for anyone working on my team.OmegaLemmy@discuss.online 2 months ago
Most of that is discord, they can’t manage a single good thing right Use more GPU than the game I’m playing? Check. Have an inefficient method of streaming a game? Check. Be laggy as fuck when no longer on GPU acceleration when lemmy and guilded is fine? Check.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Yep. I work in IT support, almost entirely Windows but similar concepts apply.
I see people pushing 6G+ with the OS and remote desktop applications open sometimes. My current shop does almost everything by VDI/remote desktop… So that’s literally the only thing they need to load, it’s just not good.
On the remote desktop side, we recently shifted from a balanced remote desktop server, over to a “memory optimised” VM, basically has more RAM but the same or similar CPU, because we kept running out of RAM for users, even though there was plenty of CPU available… It caused problems.
Memory is continually getting more important.
When I do the math on the bandwidth requirements to run everything, the next limit I think we’re likely to hit is RAM access speed and bandwidth. We’re just dealing with so much RAM at this point that the available bandwidth from the CPU to the RAM is less than the total memory allocation for the virtual system. Eg: 256G for the VM, and the CPU runs at, say, 288GB/s…
Luckily DDR 4/5 brings improvements here, though a lot of that stuff has yet to filter into datacenters
Sethayy@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Heavily depends on what you use, on a Linux server as a NAS I’m able to get away with 2gb, an orange pi zero 3 1gb but it essentially only ever ones one app at a time.
Im sure a hardcore rgb gamer could need 32gb pretty quick by leaving open twitch streams, discord, a couple games in the background, a couple chrome tabs open all on windows 11
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Has anyone ever successfully de-soldered Apple RAM and replaced it?
boonhet@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Isn’t the RAM inside the actual SoC with the Apple Silicon line? I haven’t really opened any of 'em up.
As for older Macs - sure, I know someone who replaced 8 gigs with 16 on either an Air or Pro model that had 16 available as an option but was shipped with 8. It’s just something you do when you have way too many Mac boards lying around at work.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 2 months ago
Yeah, I think so.
Can probably upgrade the SSD with a soldering iron, but not the RAM.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Ooohhh, wowie!
Meanwhile.im looking into upgrading my 64 gigs to 128, in small part because I might need to, in large Bart because I CAN.
Stop buying apple crap
Etterra@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Wait, that’s it? Seriously?
mrvictory1@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It’s about time.
AlphaOmega@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Welcome to 2010
Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
I only just upgraded from 8GB to 16GB like 2 months ago.
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 2 months ago
Welcome to 2010 to you as well then!