Windows 11 24H2 goes from “unsupported” to “unbootable” on some older PCs
Submitted 9 months ago by einat2346@lemmy.today to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
JoMiran@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
WaxedWookie@lemmy.world 9 months ago
JoMiran@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
You got downvoted, but that’s literally who’s catch phrase it is. ¯\\_(ツ)_/¯
SVcross@lemmy.world 9 months ago
God, I love game changer.
Mango@lemmy.world 9 months ago
wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months ago
OH NO anyway.
Shdwdrgn@mander.xyz 9 months ago
Maybe this will convince more people to switch to linux.
thantik@lemmy.world 9 months ago
With the work that Valve is doing on Wine, and Proton, it’s really becoming easier and easier to justify the switch.
ZILtoid1991@kbin.social 9 months ago
Issue is, a lot of people still using Windows, and Linux pro-audio is still questionable at best (lack of drivers, etc.).
agent_flounder@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Could be. If you’re running a core 2 duo I am fairly certain Linux will run markedly faster than Windows 10+…
Abnorc@lemm.ee 9 months ago
People on the fence may be convinced. Most will just buy new computers.
papabobolious@feddit.nu 9 months ago
I’ll be sure to inform my whole company and I am sure they will be on board
Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 9 months ago
That’s not a guarantee on the Linux world either, but at least you do have the option of recompiling your distro to not use those options.
There’s talks from some distros to start dropping support for such old CPUs because it’s holding back newer CPUs that could run even faster by using those instructions.
fruitSnackSupreme@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Just ordered a system76 laptop, can’t wait to use it!
z00s@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The actual oh no is the amount of ewaste this will create as people buy completely new systems as they think that’s their only option
wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 9 months ago
One man’s ewaste isanother man’s etreasure.
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 9 months ago
People who use Linux don’t seem to realize how painful bandaid that is to tear for Windows users. And don’t get me wrong, I know Linux supports all of that and more, and in the long run it’s better for everyone. But breaking people’s habits is a tough achievement to make. People will get use to some pointless tool which is not available for Linux and that’s it. Deal broken. Not to mention having multiple tools that your job depends on. Sure you can learn a new thing or two, but that can be also overwhelming for many.
BURN@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Mines not even pointless. Lightroom and Photoshop are essentials for my side business, and there isn’t viable alternatives to either.
Linux works for a lot of things, but not everything.
Coreidan@lemmy.world 9 months ago
jUsT uSe LiNuX 111!!!11!1!1!!1!!!1!11!!1!1!21111111
yuriy@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I have linux on everything except a surface pro 5, which ONLY exists for adobe and autodesk apps. Probably only works because I’m using the versions I’m comfortable with (from 2012) and they’re not too terribly bloated.
It’s not ideal, but fuck if I’m gonna try learning freecad AGAIN.
nutsack@lemmy.world 9 months ago
i am primarily linux and i cannot completely tear away from windows/mac. there are plenty of use cases where linux just isn’t a good tool.
Holzkohlen@feddit.de 9 months ago
I’d argue that linux is fine for every use case, BUT there are obviously some tools that do not work on Linux simply because the devs don’t support it. So it’s more a matter of having to learn other tools, which can be a huge undertaking I’ll give you that. The biggest step you can take towards using Linux is actually using all the open source tools on windows first. If all of your software works on both windows and linux, then changing the underlying operating system isn’t that big of a deal anymore. (some exceptions do apply, like some games will never work on linux because of kernel level anti cheat or the devs seem to straight up hate linux users, see Destiny 2 for instance)
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 9 months ago
That’s okay. Half and half is fine. For a while I really wanted Linux phone, like pure Linux, but that prospect is not happening any time soon and why settle for inferior experience that much when you can get close to open source.
smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
Same can be said for someone using Linux for years and switching to Windows. Not all tools are there, habits needs to change.
I think people commening under posts like that mostly know that switching operating system is not the same as changing desktop wallpaper. They are not saying it’s easy, just that it’s easier for most than they think.
trk@aussie.zone 9 months ago
People will get use to some pointless tool which is not available for Linux and that’s it.
Irfanview for me!
I’d debate calling it useless, but until irfanview works correctly on Linux (no, it doesn’t under WINE) I can’t change.
barsoap@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Just looked at the feature set as it’s been ages and yep, infranview does stuff that gwenview doesn’t. For filters more complex than rotate, add basic text etc. I’d open krita, for batching there’s imagemagick.
This actually goes into philosophy: UNIX follows the “do one thing, and do one thing well” approach. Imagemagick is a better batcher than infranview, krita is a better editor than infranview, gwenview… well, is a better program to throw at random desktop users just wanting to view an image folder and rotate their snapshots precisely because it is not so overladen with features. Infranview is like if you took winamp and added half of a DAW to it.
It really should run under wine, though, things don’t tend to get platinum-rated by accident.
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Didn’t really call any tool useless, but pointless. As in there are other tools that do things similarly but not the same. But habits are habits and people are not willing to change always, especially if there are a lot of changes to be made, no matter how trivial. Comfort zone is called that for a reason.
Also, not everyone knows how to make something for themself. When I switched full time to Linux we had few options in twin panel file managers which I was use to (Total Commander). None of them worked the way I liked them to. That is to say respected system theme and didn’t take a lot of time to refresh directory. So I wrote my own. But it’s an ongoing endeavor and I have to say an exhausting one.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
I wish I had paint dot net, but it was a small price to pay for all of my games working
dylanTheDeveloper@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You can use GIMP though the UI takes a bit to get use to
tjsauce@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I just wish Linux had a way of EQing my headphones and virtualizing surround sound like with HeSuVi. That’s the barrier for me personally
Fijxu@programming.dev 9 months ago
EasyEffects exists, there is something called Catia or Carla which it can be use to run VSTs IIRC. But I am not an audio pro on linux or something like that.
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
At this point Microsoft should just be buying me the computer since they make all their money on collecting my data
spujb@lemmy.cafe 9 months ago
do hack to make software run on unsupported hardware software stops working with update surprised pikachu
“this is why i switched to linux” no shut up lol. this is not an issue for any average user and if you had the ability to hack the TPM requirements you have the ability to fix your borked install. 🙂🙂🙂
Asnabel@szmer.info 9 months ago
No, the issue is that Microsoft officially supports only two versions of Windows. And support of the older one is ending next year. They are forcing users that are using perfectly capable hardware to artificially switch to - for many - needless new hardware.
jj4211@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yes, this is bad, and should be called out as such.
However, tweaking the software to run against the intent of Microsoft is still just asking for pain. Versus voting with your feet, so to speak, and saying “fine, Microsoft, if that’s how you want to play it, then I’m going elsewhere”. Of course the number of people doing that will be negligible so as not to make a difference, but it’s better than forcing Windows 11 to run against Microsoft’s intent. That’s just asking for a fight that you won’t win.
echodot@feddit.uk 9 months ago
In order for this update to have any effect on you you would have had to have failed to upgrade your computer for basically 20 years in a row. I don’t think it’s unreasonable that support for older processors is dropped
mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world 9 months ago
There is a service called 0patch that offers microcode patching for EoL windows versions, for about 30 bucks a year I’m still getting updates for my Win7 gaming rig. Never had an exploit or hijacking and I pirate quite a bit on that PC.
Plan on getting one for my Win10 daily driver next year.
And as for trust: Microsoft has awarded 0patch for several zero day exploits, and have used their patches in official releases before so not only are they trustworthy, they are literally faster at finding exploits than MS themselves.
Full disclosure: No relationship with the company other than as a happy paying customer.
spujb@lemmy.cafe 9 months ago
please identify the material changes that come with an end of support that force users to artificially switch.
in general i am entirely on the position against ms, but i genuinely do not see any concrete evidence of a “force”; ms’s own lifecycle policy even notes that products will continue to get “security and non-security updates.”
again i am anti-corporate, but i’d very much like to be accurate in my criticism, so any insight into the forces at play are appreciated 🙂
CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 9 months ago
“this is why i switched to linux” no shut up lol.
This is why I switched to Linux.
echodot@feddit.uk 9 months ago
You lot think that the solution to everything is Linux except you have absolutely no understanding of corporate IT. It’s hilarious. No wait, it’s annoying.
kautau@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I agree with you, but did you read the article? This is about a specific CPU instruction, not TPMs.
In modern x86 CPUs, POPCNT is implemented as part of the SSE4 instruction set. For Intel’s chips, it was added as part of SSE4.2 in the original first-generation Core architecture, codenamed Nehalem. In AMD’s processors, it’s included in SSE4a, first used in Phenom, Athlon, and Sempron CPUs based on the K10 architecture. These architectures date back to 2008 and 2007, respectively.
Evilcoleslaw@lemmy.world 9 months ago
First generation Core i# line, the Core name itself goes back 2 gens before that.
spujb@lemmy.cafe 9 months ago
yeah i did read the article. to clarify for anyone confused, folks are already bypassing the TPM requirement to get these windows installs working in the first place. the POPCNT instruction issue is only affecting installs that are already using this workaround to force W11 to run on a device it doesn’t want to work on.
nadir@lemmy.world 9 months ago
“Hack” the TPM. Ha!
kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social 9 months ago
In modern x86 CPUs, POPCNT is implemented as part of the SSE4 instruction set. For Intel's chips, it was added as part of SSE4.2 in the original first-generation Core architecture, codenamed Nehalem. In AMD's processors, it's included in SSE4a, first used in Phenom, Athlon, and Sempron CPUs based on the K10 architecture. These architectures date back to 2008 and 2007, respectively.
That effectively bars mid-2000s Intel Core 2 Duo systems and early Athlon 64-era PCs from booting Windows 11 at all, not that they officially supported it in the first place. This means the change should mainly affect retro-computing enthusiasts who spend their days making YouTube videos in the "we installed Windows 11 on a potato, let's see how it runs" genre rather than users of actual systems.
You can check your SSE support for 4.2(Intel) and 4a(AMD) but it sounds like unless you're running some real old stuff you shouldn't have to worry.
Nougat@kbin.social 9 months ago
But isn't Microsoft just so evil for making it to their operating system doesn't function flawlessly on twenty year old hardware?
Amaltheamannen@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Except there’s no reason for not supporting it beyond greed. It worked previously.
Gladaed@feddit.de 9 months ago
Itt: Use Linux Spam. This is not feasible for most users. Not all applicatopns are posted to Linux and some explicitly do not work. In particular for people that play games socially this just does not work. That being said they are unaffected by this change.
Kbobabob@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Lol. Every Windows article gets spammed to death with yOu ShoUlD uSe LiNuX.
Fijxu@programming.dev 9 months ago
lol
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Post a picture of shit on your carpet, get mad when people say “You should clean that up.” The big brain am winning again.
BURN@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Seems like this is a constant spam on Lemmy and it’s starting to drive me away from the platform. So much Linux spam.
hydrospanner@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The Linux proselytizing combined with the rabid impractical political hive mind have combined to slowly take my usage of Lemmy from “increasing and replacing Reddit time” to “flattened out, going back to Reddit a bit” and now it’s moving solidly into the territory of “definitely using and visiting Lemmy less, spending more time back on Reddit”.
This platform has so much potential, but the community sucks. Which is saying something, given that the chief comparison is the reddit community.
FractalsInfinite@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
I’m sure it wouldn’t be too hard to make something that filtered out all posts/comments containing the word “Linux”
remus989@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
You just described this entire site.
DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
I’d suggest Arch Linux, btw. 😜
Just kidding, Debian.
mods_are_assholes@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’ve been trying to switch to linux on my daily driver for years, and every time I come to a critical issue, I can’t find useful help for it anywhere on the web and I give up and try again next year.
And this isn’t a skill issue, I’m a 30 year greybeard IT vet that has administered to linux servers since the late 90s. Linux is simply not ready for daily use by your average computer user, and that’s mainly the fault of its fucktastically fragmented environment designed by insular egotists.
And don’t even get me fucking started on the elitism of people who actually respond to help requests with instructions to read several hundred pages of documents before they’ll even tell you what’s wrong with your question.
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world 9 months ago
So, we just gotta make people play games in non social ways
pozbo@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Sudo switch to linux
snownyte@kbin.social 9 months ago
May I ask - why is anyone bothering to install Windows 11 on old hardware in the first place?
Old hardware is better for Linux. Either install Linux or you can get used to having your old hardware be used as a paperweight.
HC4L@lemmy.world 9 months ago
In this context an unsupported cpu would be an i7 7700K for example. Hardly e-waste and can perform quite well…
LostXOR@kbin.social 9 months ago
Or just... Stay on Windows 10? There's nothing wrong with it compared to Windows 11 (though Linux is usually a better choice).
BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Be me
Teach intro to it-support/devops Course is relatively cheap for the school, as we only use the stuff that the IT dept has obsoleted
Currently getting 4th gen core i7 machines Life is good, every student has a few i7 machines for clients (win 10) and windows server Microsoft announces end of life for win 10 Hate win 11, but if we must MFW Microsoft announces the requirement of CPUs 4 gens newer than the newest machines we’re receiving. And I now have to tell my boss that the otherwise cheap course, with not enough students otherwise, will need an investment of at least 18 new desktop machinesAnybody hiring?
merthyr1831@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’ve got a solution but y’all will not like it🐧
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Install Linux? Nah, you’ll love it! Just dump that Microsoft trash with the garbage already
UsernameIsTooLon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
But my anti-cheat :(
I wanna like Linux but I like my games more
feinstruktur@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
I went to Linux for all private use years ago. And man - I wish so very hard I could simply switch to a non win-native CAD at the job.
barsoap@lemm.ee 9 months ago
CAD is one of those hold-out areas for windows which is actually kinda strange because when it comes to non-CAD 3D software a lot of the big names are UNIX-native and got ported to windows at some point: Houdini, Maya and Blender all got their start on IRIX and run perfectly fine on Linux, 3dsmax… well, Autodesk. Somehow they started out writing their software for DOS and became dominant in the CAD market despite that.
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Which Linux CAD software do you use? My needs are very simple, but pretty much everything I’ve tried is either unintuitive or lacking in some aspect.
Chakravanti@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Ditto. Decade & a half.
EmperorHenry@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
when they say “older” PCs they’re talking about machines with CPUs that are over 14 years old now.
You’d need to have replaced that CPU by now anyway.
dan1101@lemm.ee 9 months ago
So if you got Win11 to install on an “unsupported” CPU it might not boot now?
Backward compatibility is a big selling point for me. It bugged me for years when Windows got rid of 16-bit compatibility.
Looking forward to Linux instead of Windows 11/12, I know it will be a learning curve but Linux is getting better and easier.
Resol@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s penguin time
smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
Linux Linux Linux Linux Linux Linux Linux
KuroeNekoDemon@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
sudo dnf install fedora-39-workstation-edition
TheEntity@kbin.social 9 months ago
With all due respect, that sounds very much like something unsupported would do.
TotalSonic@lemmy.world 9 months ago
2025 will lilely be way more the year of massive e-waste than the “Year of the Linux Desktop ™” - but I still think it is in the realm of possible that Linux market share close to doubles into the 5 to 8 percent range.
While I already regularly use Ubuntu and Ubuntu Touch for my “infotainment” desktops, laptops and tablets - I have 3 desktops in my studio that run Windows 10 that work great for my pro audio work needs, none of which qualify for Windows 11 according to MS’s “PC Health Check” app. So I’ve been investigating running Ubuntu Studio dual booting on one of my machines as a possible way of keeping these boxes going after Win 10 stops getting security updates. Some things look promising, but given I was not able to get the available kernel module device driver to build for my Merging Anubis (which is my main audio interface for my mastering studio) I will likely still need to get a Win 11 box in order to be able to continue my current work flow.
JIMMERZ@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I do use Windows for a lot of specific programs, but this behavior is really pushing me to Linux and to find alternatives to the software I use.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
And again, install Linux, get rid of Microsoft trash
Adanisi@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
It’s really unfortunate that some people still rely on Windows for their computing. There are better, more respectful alternatives but Microsoft’s stranglehold causes problems switching.
libreplanet.org/wiki/Group:Freedom_Ladder
This page is a work in progress but if you scroll down you’ll see some rough guidelines on how to get off of proprietary software, eventually Windows, one step at a time.
peopleproblems@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Almost like I still have no reason to get a secure boot machine!
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
That’s an improvement, I used to have to desolder the TPM chip so …
autotldr@lemmings.world [bot] 9 months ago
This is the best summary I could come up with:
That’s apparently changing a bit in Windows 11’s 24H2 update, which Microsoft began testing earlier this month.
According to posts from a user named Bob Pony on X, formerly Twitter, the latest Windows 11 builds refuse to boot on older processors that don’t support a relatively obscure instruction called “POPCNT.”
For Intel’s chips, it was added as part of SSE4.2 in the original first-generation Core architecture, codenamed Nehalem.
That effectively bars mid-2000s Intel Core 2 Duo systems and early Athlon 64-era PCs from booting Windows 11 at all, not that they officially supported it in the first place.
This means the change should mainly affect retro-computing enthusiasts who spend their days making YouTube videos in the “we installed Windows 11 on a potato, let’s see how it runs” genre rather than users of actual systems.
No CPU manufacturer is including stuff like POPCNT or MBEC in their marketing materials, but modern Windows support is increasingly dictated by these kinds of features.
The original article contains 498 words, the summary contains 161 words. Saved 68%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
kylian0087@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If you think about it. Rhel already killed of the use of older CPUs by requiring x86-64-v2 for rhel 9 and up. If you got x86-64-v1 you get a kernel panic and can not even boot the system. Dont get me wrong I love linux and use it anywhere I can.
mjhelto@lemm.ee 9 months ago
So wait, doesn’t the naming for their builds based on the year and whether the first half, or second half, of the year? How would they have a 24H2 if we’re only in February of 2024?
TWeaK@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I got a new laptop and one of the first things I did was install Windows 10. My colleague has more or less the same laptop and complains how slow it is.
kick_out_the_jams@kbin.social 9 months ago
In modern x86 CPUs, POPCNT is implemented as part of the SSE4 instruction set. For Intel's chips, it was added as part of SSE4.2 in the original first-generation Core architecture, codenamed Nehalem. In AMD's processors, it's included in SSE4a, first used in Phenom, Athlon, and Sempron CPUs based on the K10 architecture. These architectures date back to 2008 and 2007, respectively.
That effectively bars mid-2000s Intel Core 2 Duo systems and early Athlon 64-era PCs from booting Windows 11 at all, not that they officially supported it in the first place. This means the change should mainly affect retro-computing enthusiasts who spend their days making YouTube videos in the "we installed Windows 11 on a potato, let's see how it runs" genre rather than users of actual systems.
You can check your SSE support for 4.2 and 4a respectively but it sounds like unless you're running some real old stuff you shouldn't have to worry.
JoMiran@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Bishma@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
It’d ultimately be better for everyone if no PCs could boot windows 11.
JdW@lemmy.world 9 months ago
frunch@lemmy.world 9 months ago
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bluewing@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I have a laptop that runs Win11. I have had no issues with it since I did the upgrade when it first came out and as far a Microsoft products go, it’s OK. But with the addition of the AI, I know at some point it will piss me off and I will wipe it and chose a distro to take it’s place.
I’m retired now, and I no longer really need the Fusion360 install that one customer requested I use for their designs nor do I play games beyond a little mahjongg and solitaire in the evenings if I feel the need.
Windows is merely a tool and a means to an end. It’s NOT the end in itself. Use the tool you want/need to and feel the best with and just get on with the job…