I had to get a new PC and it came with WIN 11 honestly it’s not any more terrible than any other version of Windows once I shut off all the obnoxious options that are defaulted on. But also I never would have bothered installing it if I hadn’t gotten an entirely new system.
Not even the ghost of obsolescence can coerce users onto Windows 11
Submitted 1 year ago by FlyingSquid@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theregister.com/2023/10/05/win_11_penetration_still_low
Comments
Ozymati@lemmy.nz 1 year ago
MasterBlaster@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s what you can’t see that is problematic. The surveillance is turned up to 11. Ba-dum Tish!
HRDS_654@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You really think Windows 10 has less tracking? This is the thing that bothers me the most in general. People are quick to just accept what they think is the popular view of something without experiencing it for themselves. Especially in the day and age of social media people just say things are bad because someone they know watched a video that says it was bad.
Literally, this whole Windows 11 is bad thing started because some tech content creators pointed out that every other version of Windows is bad (which isn’t even strictly true) and everyone just agreed with them because they “know what they are talking about”. I hold on love for Microsoft, but I also hold no love for Google and Apple because they are corporations and that means you should trust them as far as you can throw them. Windows 11 wasn’t even great in the beginning, but I wanted to give it a shot because I wanted the full experience. I wanted to know what I was talking about when I told people not to upgrade. As of right now the general public (e.g. not a bunch of Linux nerds on the Fediverse) are probably fine to use 11. Would I tell people to go out of their way to upgrade? Fuck no. But if a new computer comes with 11 pre-installed they probably wouldn’t even notice beyond the taskbar placement.
pathief@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Putting the obvious privacy issues aside (which also exist in Windows 10), my friends/family who use Windows actually enjoy Windows 11. Most people don’t care about privacy, they enjoy running the most recent windows edition whatever that is.
The problem is that Windows 11 introduced some really arbitrary hardware requirements and people who actually want to upgrade don’t have the tech knowledge to bypass them. These sites think people hate windows 11 but they’re just too poor to upgrade.
ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 1 year ago
It has definitely come with a significant roadblock compared to ease with which you could move from Windows 7 or 8 to 10. It is a whole lot less straightforward a proposition this time around.
pissclumps@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I don’t mind windows 11
Potatos_are_not_friends@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Gonna be honest. I didn’t mind XP, or windows 7 either.
I only got win10 because it was free and for Steam.
But now with SteamOS and all those proton updates, I really wont have a reason to use a Windows computer very soon.
iyaerP@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I will die before I use Windows 11.
“Upgrading” from 7 to 10 was already painful enough.
Drbreen@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
It’s amazing how some people prefer death an as option over upgrading an OS lol
n0m4n@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We will die eventually anyway. The real question is how much torture are we willing to put up, until then.
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Naah, he’ll upgrade just like every other death preferring person the moment new game comes out and new DirectX supports only that Windows version.
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
I’m running Win7 because I don’t wanna fiddle around with Linux as the primary use of my computron is gaming. Steam announced that it will stop running on Win7 starting January 2024. Not sure what I will be doing January 2024 yet, currently trying to decide between Linux and a pirated Win10. Open for suggestions.
LWJanniesRCucks@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Windows 10 IoT Enterprise LTSC 2021 if you have to stick with Windows. Download from here , then down MAS.
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Bookmarked, thanks.
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Linux support with steam is great. Linux is not what it used to be. It’s very user friendly these days, just a bit of a learning curve as things are just done differently.
josefo@leminal.space 1 year ago
I came to say this. Steam’s Proton is in some black magic fuckery status. It really runs windows games without problems. I had an old laptop which struggled to run windows 10 because telemetry and other shit services and windows update clogging everything, installed Linux and Steam and runs games I already gave up running there. I was very surprised at the fact that Linux gaming is very feasible nowdays. We have a lot to be thankful to steamdecks for.
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Yeah, I heard that things have been moving forward a lot on Linux gaming, thanks.
zatanas@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Linux. But that’s my preference. There’s no wrong answer. Whichever makes you happy.
Anonbal185@aussie.zone 1 year ago
Windows 7? How are you getting your security updates?
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
I don’t. I’m blocking scripts and ads and don’t download obvious bait. Security updates are overrated.
Wilzax@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You can get legitimate windows 10 using HWID activation, this method was temporarily patched but is now working again.
littlecolt@lemm.ee 1 year ago
If you play any games with kernel level anti cheat like Destiny 2 or Fortnite, you will need to go with Win 10. Otherwise, Linux is really easy nowadays. Pick an easy distro like Pop or Mint and you can get into the game pretty easy. Your games that are already installed on NTFS drives can even be easily recognized by Steam with a little work setting up mount points etc
Karyoplasma@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Nah, I’m more into singleplayer games. Multiplayer games I play are pretty much only D2R and maybe at some point PoE/PoE 2 again, but I doubt a kernel-level anti cheat will ever be a thing there.
I’ll put Mint and Pop on my watchlist, thanks!
Dozzi92@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Had to get a new laptop for work. Came with Windows 11. It’s fine. I actually like one feature it comes with that windows 10 doesn’t have. I went through the rigamarole of uninstalling all the nonsense and stopping tracking (yeah, sure I did), and all that. It’s a pain. I did it with windows 10. And 7. And I’m sure I fucked around with XP. I’ll fuck around with every windows I get.
My PC is windows 10. I won’t upgrade. When I build a new one, who knows!
MrLuemasG@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Whats the one feature you like that windows 10 doesn’t have?
Capricorny90210@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Right? Bro left us hanging. I wanna know too lol
Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social 1 year ago
Not OP but personally touch input feels much better implemented on 11 than any previous Windows
ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 1 year ago
I liked one thing about this comment, but I’ll never tell…
kautau@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Computer users hate him for this one trick!
Taleya@aussie.zone 1 year ago
Hell, i refuse to move off win7. And given the eavesdropping behaviour of my laptop even after a deshittification scrub, that’s not gonna change any time soon.
Sendbeer@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Windows 7 is where Microsoft peaked imo.
Taleya@aussie.zone 1 year ago
98/XP/7 was a glorious time. Then they decided way too late that they wanted to be tabletgardenwalledadmachines.
Not on fucking hardware i built you don’t.
capital@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Is 7 still getting security patches?
Taleya@aussie.zone 1 year ago
officially no, even ESU ended jan 2023, but you can get around the MSE ones by a manual install. I’ve also found they allow for extraordinary ones like CVE-2023-29336
DuncanIdaho@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’ve been pushing every app company I use to go linux. I feel that Ubintu and Munt are far superior OS’s. They just need more music, video and art editors to support it.
Water1053@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Just curious. What does the process of “pushing an app company to go Linux” look like?
DuncanIdaho@lemmy.world 1 year ago
TBH I have no idea beyond sending the company an email and asking. I used to put out polls to users and tag in the company asking if people would use it on linux, not many maybe one of two.
Zenbach@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Munt?
AlolanYoda@mander.xyz 1 year ago
Yeah, have you never heard of the two popular Linux distributions, Ubintu and Munt?
DuncanIdaho@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Goddammit. I have a problem with my fingers, sorry. (I think its arthritis but cant get diagnosed) My fingers misfire smetimes
I meant Mint and Ubuntu.
dynamo@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Maybe they meant “Mint”.
Dick_Justice@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Windows 11 has been great for me
capital@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Look at the bright side - there’s gonna be shitloads of not that old enterprise hardware on the market.
During the rise of work from home the last few years, my wife needed a home desktop setup. I picked up a used Dell micro for like $200, installed 10 and we were off. She basically just needed an RDP connection so nothing special.
If she needed to continue past when 10 was supported I’d just throw Fedora on there and go through FreeRDP.
I’ve got another micro running some VMs on Proxmox. I love these things.
Franzia@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
Seriously this. I got an Optiplex. It’s changing my life to have a reliable second computer at my desk.
dym_sh@lemmy.world 1 year ago
the ghost of obsolescence
the 4ᵗʰ ghost of christmas
Luci@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Until they let me use Windows 11 without a TPM, how am I supposed to upgrade?
sweetchildintime@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well, it’s actually not that difficult if you really want to, but there’s really no good reason to do so right now. It’s basically just the same OS with an even more annoying UI.
bioemerl@kbin.social 1 year ago
Hi. Would you like to back up to the windows cloud? You can say yes or you can tell us to remind you in a week.
You want to not be reminded? Fuck you.
Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social 1 year ago
I still don't understand the TPM 2.0 requirement. As far as I know there's nothing that Windows 11 does by default that requires TPM, just optional features like BitLocker or Windows Hello
bioemerl@kbin.social 1 year ago
It establishes the TPM as a common hardware requirement so that these companies can lock down the web and their hardware to kill your right to control your own shit.
Evilcoleslaw@lemmy.world 1 year ago
TPM isn’t even really the big blocker for most of the CPUs that were excluded – many have TPM 2.0 functionality. The bigger culprit wrt compatibility is a virtualization security feature called MBEC (AMD has another name) If your CPU doesn’t have MBEC the functionality can be emulated in software but it comes at a potentially hefty performance hit.
IIRC Intel 7th Gen has this feature but it doesn’t work properly on some/all chips so that’s why the Intel cutoff was 8th Gen. AMD has this feature on Zen 2 and above (Ryzen 3000) but Windows 11 supports Zen+ (Ryzen 2000 & 1600AF) using the emulation although it is indeed a large performance hit. I would see ~15-20% fps increase on my 1600AF in games when disabling the virtualization security settings. Now that I’ve moved to a Ryzen 5600 the difference between on and off is negligible.
Drbreen@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I’d like to try Linux for real one day, I’ve hap hazardly tried it a few times over the years but ahh fuck it. I barely have time these days to do shit that I want than worry about switching OS’s, maybe when I retire one day or kids move out. Probably too late then, MS will have all the data on me that everyone is so concerned about.
MotoAsh@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The only times modern Linux is even a problem is if you have to do something really weird, support odd hardware (which sometimes it supports better than Windows), or run in to a botched kernel upgrade or similar. If you have mainstream hardware, no really oddball devices with special drivers for linux, and don’t care to try tricky stuff, Linux is a pretty solid OS these days.
Definitely easier to install and set up than Windows if you count all the account nagging Windows does. Even the distros that make you choose a lot of things during install are less naggy…
dustyData@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It takes an hour at most to figure it all out. You can test drive it before hand without changing nothing in your computer. And once you figure it out, it can be instantly productive depending on what software you use. Here, Microsoft made a neat guide to teach you how to do it.
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 1 year ago
These days it’s far easier to install and run Linux than it is Windows. If you don’t install proprietary drivers from nVidia, which are as stable as they are on Windows, you pretty much have trouble-free existence. And with Steam/Proton it’s not even a question of gaming anymore. More to the point of article here, Linux will not ask for hardware upgrade ever.
Drbreen@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I’m very intrigued by everyone’s responses and appreciate them. I’m very tempted to give it a go. Perhaps while I’m on leave at the end of the year. Is there a distro that you’d recommend? I mainly game, do game development and watch plex.
Pxtl@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
So as somebody who has avoided Win11 just because I use a taskbar in a configuration that Win11 doesn’t support (docked to the left edge of the screen, no grouping, full text labels) what’s the reason other people are avoiding Win11? Something about ads?
Because on the “windows login” thing, I actually like that part. Having automatic cloud sync of my documents and config across machines through OneDrive is handy. I agree it shouldn’t be mandatory, but it suits me.
Lemonparty@lemm.ee 1 year ago
So I just had it forced onto my work machine and here’s my take away so far:
It’s slow. I don’t care about the bells and whistles they added visually, it’s slow. Really slow. My workload and usage has not changed one iota from 10 to 11. Every single aspect of my job is the same, i use 90% Microsoft Apps, plus chrome (no choice) and acrobat. WHY IS IT SLOW. My laptop was built for windows 11. Windows 10 ran fine and was not noticeably different in any way other than some visual changes I don’t need. Why the fuck is it SLOW. Why. Seriously, why?
I do not care about tabbed explorer, it’s fine but it’s not a feature I’ve ever had in an OS or needed. I don’t care about most of the other obvious changes, but I do care that my job is now significantly more difficult because my every day tasks take longer and the OS locks up due to high CPU and memory usage even though all apps combined are only using about 20% of my resources. So the OS eats 80% because…i don’t know or car why, it fucking sucks and I hate it.
ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 1 year ago
WHY IS IT SLOW.
Because it is a data collection/ ad delivery system before it ever gets around to being your OS and doing what you, the user, need it to do.
If you were to install a 3rd party firewall or a packet sniffer on that machine you could see for yourself just how much of your OS is dedicated to collecting data and sending it home to the mothership. But you couldn’t turn it off without a lot of tinkering, if at all, because MS apps often require ongoing verification to remain active, especially Office 365. And on top of that, you mention
chrome (no choice) and acrobat
Google is equally horrible, and Acrobat is almost as nasty. I’ve had rashes that were less persistent than Google Update and Acrobat Update services. You can turn them off, it’s easy to do, but expect them to be turned on again with every Windows Update. Those are sucking down some serious CPU cycles and network bandwidth too.
Turn off what you can of these. It will help . . . some.
systemglitch@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s how I use a taskbar. Glad I held off on 11
PlantJam@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No grouping and full text labels is also why I reverted back to windows 10.
HidingCat@kbin.social 1 year ago
Same, not upgrading till they fix that. But it seems that by the time that makes its way back, Windows 12 is going to be announced. xD
shikogo@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I’ve had to use some W11 virtual machines for school. Absolutely miserable user experience, both for everyday tasks and power users. Just… why?
jmanes@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This happens over and over again with Windows so I don’t really take any of these articles seriously. People will migrate to either 11 or whatever comes next. All the kicking and screaming in the world won’t be able to stop them. How long are tech folks going to repeat this cycle?
BombOmOm@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I very recently installed Linux on one on my daily drivers. Been slowly switching away from windows as they have gotten more and more anti-user.
Zerlyna@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Wow I feel like the lone Mac user on this thread.
Hegar@kbin.social 1 year ago
When I got my new laptop I spent a full hour just trying to delete edge. It's still there, but I think I managed to disable it's auto update.
Maddie47@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
I’m fairly sure Microsoft touted Windows 10 as the “last version of Windows” and were just going to build on and improve it forever.
But yeah Windows 11 is shit. I wish we could all go back to Windows 7.
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Ah, so it is exactly like Windows 8
KISSmyOS@lemmy.world 1 year ago
XEAL@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Not upgrading until Steam stops running on W10, and maybe not even then.
Sygheil@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Windows is so diversed you natively can install WSL (apart from cygwin in the old days) and look like hackintosh at the same time.
My laptop came with it but i downgraded to W10. My issue was with adrenalin driver which barely does its thing on W11
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Not even the stock photo guys can install that UH11 update.
P00Pchute@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Anyone know why windows 11 keyboard input lags so much? Impossible to play FFR on it. Even in compatibility mode.
RobotToaster@mander.xyz 1 year ago
Honestly, I can’t think of a single reason to upgrade, except possibly WSA.
Then again, basically the only thing windows 10 has over XP is WSL.
doktorseven@lemmy.world 1 year ago
These will be the same people forever defending and holding on to 11 after 10 is dead and 12 has been out forever. Just like all times before. The people holding on to 7 are now these staunch 10 defenders after it was obvious 7 was a crutch.
deegeese@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
No, this is the usual reaction to Microsoft’s habit of following a good Windows release with a terrible one.
Vista made people stick with XP Win8 made people stick with 7 Win11 makes people stick with 10
There were no die-hard fans sticking with the shit releases, just as nobody will cling on to Windows 11.
dx1@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The backwards compatibility starts getting unbearable after a while. XP runs like a dream on modern hardware but the fact that everything after ~2014 or so only supports 7+, there’s a limit on how mucn you can do with it.
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
No, no, I still hate 10 and refuse to use it. I keep 7 on one pc for musicbee, and that’s it. Fuck windows. Fuck it in the ass without consent, using a razor studded strap on. Fuck 10, fuck 11, and definitely fuck 12
GigglyBobble@kbin.social 1 year ago
I hope you keep your win 7 isolated from the internet since it has been out of maintenence for quite a while now.
You always have to consider that probably at least 80% of the Windows code base is the same across versions. So when a current release gets a patch for new security flaw that's a hint for the malware devs the old release is likely vulnerable too. As soon as a version gets out of maintenance its likelihood for infection rises steeply.
Takumidesh@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think there is a fair balancing point between jumping on the newest release of an os, when you have an established workflow, and don’t know about longevity (windows 8 had a shorter than normal support cycle) and holding on to an outdated os for ever and ever.
I don’t plan on switching to win 11 anytime soon, but I eventually will I’m sure.
Phen@lemmy.eco.br 1 year ago
I was very happy with almost all windows update in the last 23 yrars. WinXp was bad for a little while but soon got good. Win Vista was terrible for a shorter period and soon got fantastic. Everything else had more good than bad from the start. Win11 had zero positive changes until the paint layers got announced, with a ton of negative changes.
player2@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This time really is different because windows is ending updates for windows 10 in 2025 AND they will not allow many computers to upgrade to windows 11, your only choice is to buy a new computer, which obviously isn’t an option for everyone.
I built my gaming PC in 2017 and it still runs all the games and editing programs I want, but it is not eligible to upgrade to W11 because their DRM won’t work on my processor.