Creators of Slay the Spire will migrate their next game to a new engine if Unity doesn't completely revert their changes

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• nul9o9@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  They should honestly just move their engine anyway. Unity has played their hand, and showed they are willing to make changes to their pricing retroactively.

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  • JJROKCZ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yep, they might roll back the changes this time but they’ve shown where they want to be and now we know. They’ll work their way slowly towards it instead of a sudden change now and it will be less noticeable and harder to fight legally when they do that

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    • slumberlust@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      They’re cranking the bad PR to 11 so they can dial it back to 9 and point to it as a compromise.

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    • Godnroc@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I think most developers can see the writing in the wall there, but switching mid-way through a project will be costly and time consuming. If the changes were fully rolled back, I would still bet many would finish what they working on and then switch for their next game.

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  • Gamey@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I bet they will do so for their next game but reimplementing a entire game is FAR easier said than done, something like that could very well bankrupt a smaller studio!

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    • CaptPretentious@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      But not moving could be far worse based on what some devs are saying.

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    • dog@suppo.fi ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I mean it’s easy to reimplement entire games if you’ve built it modularly. Just swap your core game logic to run on another library and the game works the same it did before.

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  • vagrantprodigy@lemmy.whynotdrs.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Exactly. They should take this as the warning it is, and start work on moving to an engine not run by morons.

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    • SupraMario@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I have a feeling a lot of the engine devs from unity are seeing the writing on the wall and looking for places to jump to. Betting they have a brain drain soon

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  • SkinnyTimmy@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    just

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  • ABCDE@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    How can it even be applied?

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  • darkeox@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This. It's not easy or trivial but as a long term strategy, they should already plan investing efforts into consolidating something like Godot or another FOSS engine. They should play like you calm down an abuser you can't just escape yet while planning their demise when the time has come.

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• rockerface@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I love that last line.

  “We have never made a public statement before. This is how badly you fucked up.”

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  • ABCDE@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    A public statement ever? Or about this? If the former, damn.

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    • aBundleOfFerrets@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      ever

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  • Doog@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It must have felt good to say but I suspect they’d have better chance of seeing positive results if they avoided confronting the Unity team’s egos.

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    • Tangent5280@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      If Unity dies, it dies.

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    • beefcat@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The only way Unity can realistically fix it at this point is to pull a WotC and not just backtrack all these changes, but implement a legal mechanism that guarantees changes like this cannot ever be retroactively applied to past versions of the engine.

      I don’t think Unity will do that.

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• Oha@lemmy.ohaa.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Is it just me or are all big companies killing themself right now?

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  • Knusper@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yeah, inflation rate is high, so central banks are trying to counteract that by basically slowing down the economy, so that our normally scheduled inflation countermeasures kick in appropriately. Well, and the usual way to slow down the economy is to make it more costly to loan money, i.e. increase interest rates. Which means investors can’t just pump money into any company anymore, they want that money to actually pay out to cover those interest rates. And that means companies need to actually be profitable to get money to finance their operation.

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    • there1snospoon@ttrpg.network ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      So does that mean all these businesses were always doomed to fail anyways, just living on borrowed money/time, and now the bill comes due, they’re all fucked?

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    • gila@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This would make sense if Unity increased their fees, but it doesn’t make sense to invent a new revenue stream based on a metric you can’t even accurately measure. That’s profit-seeking.

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    • Resonosity@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      And it’s most costly to increase interest rates not because those directly affect the investors, but because those interest rates affect the borrowers since the borrowers will need to make more and more money to be able to pay back the initial injection + interest.

      If borrowers don’t think they can pay back, then they probably won’t borrow in the first place. If they do borrow but don’t make enough to pay back those loans + interest, then the investor loses out.

      And if borrowers don’t borrow in the first place, then investors sit on their money when they could theoretically inject it into other businesses so they can earn on what they own, and not just let their assets stagnate (or decay). To investors, this might also be perceived as a loss.

      Do I have that right?

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  • JokeDeity@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’ve said this for about a decade now: I firmly believe this world we live in now is the inevitable, unavoidable result of having every company run by people with business degrees and no passion for the businesses they run. When your entire education was focused on how to extract one more penny from customers and how to psychologically make addicts out of everyone, this is what we end up with. I fucking hate it. Everything is enshitified and it sucks.

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    • greenskye@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Agreed, VC have poured free money into excellent, but unsustainable businesses trying to chase ‘growth’ long enough that they can sell out just before everyone realizes that it won’t make money. It’s just a scam of rich people preying on other rich people.

      Instead of trying to build a self sustaining company to begin with (which requires hard work to balance revenue against customer needs and desires) they build ‘free’ products that people love, but can’t make money, only to switch the company to crappy products that people hate, but now are trapped into using.

      Our entire digital economy is built on these bait and switch companies and it sucks

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    • tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      result of having every company run by people with business degrees and no passion for the businesses they run

      You’d think that even soulless business ghouls would’ve learned somewhere along the way to put a price tag on things like long-term customer loyalty and the soft power of your brand. So either they’re too dumb to take all the variables into account or they’re looking only at short term gains.

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    • whoisearth@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I disagree. This is all the system working as expected. There is no such thing as infinite growth and yet we are conditioned to always need it or else it’s a failure.

      We are on an ever accelerated race to the bottom.

      The definition of success is woefully broken.

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    • dinckelman@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      We just leave in a dystopia. The leadership will milk you dry, for pennies, for short term profits. When you’re this greedy, you can’t see more than a day into the future. It’s just another reminder than corporations aren’t your friends

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    • MisterHavoc@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This angle is absolutely brutal. Never seen it that way.

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    • stealth_cookies@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Sort of but not exactly, the recent shift is because money has gotten expensive and now investors are wanting to take a profit rather than tossing money around hoping to get lucky. So now these business types are scrambling to do anything that makes the business profitable when their entire business plan was unsustainable without the constant influx of money keeping them afloat under the guise of “growth”.

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    • Zink@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I think I disagree a bit. It is the owners of the companies that have no passion for what they do. They just want that particular position in their portfolio to appreciate or spit out dividends.

      Then they put the MBAs in charge to get the most efficient use of capital.

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  • Bread@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Corporate suicide is so hot right now, all the cool companies are doing it. Are you really even trying if you can’t feel the pain of the bullet in your foot?

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  • XEAL@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The poor guys just want to fulfil the infinite company growth expectations of their stakeholders.

    Eat the rich. ALIVE.

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    • assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      What really bugs me is that it’s not even infinite growth they’re after. What they want is as high growth as possible as soon as possible. Planning a sustainable long term profit business would mean great employee benefits to attract and keep the best, a ton of funding for new product development, and building things slightly more expensive so that they last longer.

      There is no financial analysis that would say cutting safety measures is a net positive to your money in the long run. The bill will come due and you’ll lose an extraordinary amount of money when things blow up or derail. If I make a change that raises my risk to 1% over a year to have a safety incident which would cost me 5 billion, I’d have to save more than 50 million each year with that decision for it to make me more money. Plus it would take 100 years for the realized savings to cancel out the event. If it happened before 100 years, I’m at a net negative.

      All of that is to say that the stakeholders aren’t just greedy bastards, they’re also dumb as fuck. But that’s not surprising – the type of person with that much money didn’t get it from consistently working over time. They think playing fast and loose will work in their favor always.

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  • paddirn@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Not just companies, but countries too. We’ve apparently reached the Age of Idiocy where everyone that got big is just doing these epic face-plants. I don’t know if it’s desperation, arrogance, greed, or a combination, but so many shitty decisions coming out left and right all over the place.

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    • pyr0ball@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Late stage capitalism. You can’t expect year over year growth for eternity without running into a resource cap. Profit growth is all the shareholders care about because it’s literally written into United States economics laws that investors get paid first. All these dirty tricks and bad decisions are coming from CEO’s with limited understanding of the effects of their policies, trying to push for an extra 2% on top of their already obscene margins

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  • Epicurus0319@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I like to call it “Userbase Alienation Olympics”

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  • Natanael@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    “activist investors” of the worst kind has forgotten what makes the companies valuable and want quick money

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  • Gamey@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Well, with the current happenings around the world loans got a lot more expensive and that’s basically what internet companies run on since the start, many of them never made a profit but even others will run their buissines to the ground during inflation and shit!

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• gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  We have never made a public statement before now. That is how badly you fucked up.

  Lmao shots fired. Unity’s C-suite made their own bed… and the bed is made out of anti-personnel mines. I genuinely hope this picks up steam.

  Unity showed their hand when they made the announcement. I had never thought to look up who owned them before. Now that I am aware that they’re majority-owned by VC and PE firms, it’s pretty clear to me that this category of monetization-oriented behavior is here to stay, because that’s how VC and PE operate. Unless and until they somehow get a new owner, it’s my sincere opinion that Unity should absolutely not be seriously considered as a game engine for any new game project.

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  • Wogi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    If there’s a penny in your hand, it’s a penny they need. Leave not one cent to be saved, not a morsel for tomorrow, because the people who control the money, want to own it all too.

    There’s a subscription for every need, for every hobby, for ever facet of reality. No matter what you do you can give one of these firms between 30 and 300 dollars a month to send you a box of crap you don’t need.

    There is no aspect of your life that is not fully monetized, and if there is, they’re coming for it. A stroll through the park? Buy water from a fountain that used to be free. An old game with friends you love? Why not buy the expansion, play online only a small fee to have the latest updates and play with anyone! They’ll find any avenue to sell to you and completely miss the point of what it is you’re looking for, in the quest to fill that need at the highest price you’ll pay.

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  • gunslingerfry@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    LOL this is how capitalism operates.

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    • Stovetop@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This. We’re only just now feeling the sting more keenly in a number of ways because companies are desperate to stay the course with increased profits year over year despite there being a massive global economic slump.

      The 2010’s were full of venture capital pumping money into companies, and when we asked, “How is this business profitable,” they’d respond “Just trust us, bro.” Well, now the well has dried up, the venture capitalists are here to collect, and we all get to be surprisedpikachuface.jpg watching this trainwreck unfold in slow motion.

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• dinckelman@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Even if they do revert it, the trust has been lost. They’ve made mistakes before, but none as stupid as this one

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  • TwilightVulpine@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    It’s a matter of self-preservation to get away from Unity as soon as possible at this point.

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• Rentlar@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The Unity to Godot Importer is looking awfully tempting!

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• MossBear@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Why stay at all whether they revert it or not? They’re egregiously incompetent and if they’ve done this sort of thing once, they’re going to do it again. Developers should go where their support will help make something better (Godot) and not stick with the crusty old Unity hag that is constantly pawing at their pockets hoping for the jingle of coins.

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  • Serinus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Because changing the engine in an existing project is a huge pita that requires many, many hours and possibly in some cases a full rewrite.

    This also applies to games that would be released in 2023 or 2024.

    Nobody should be considering Unity for a new project, but it’s understandable to make either decision for many existing projects.

    Ripping out the engine of your game isn’t a trivial thing.

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    • douglasg14b@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Many many hours is a massive understatement.

      Thousands and thousands of hours is more appropriate

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    • cozycosmic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I agree, although a lot of the work going into a game is the game design, art, and iteration, and not just the programming and rigging. And it may actually be a catalyst to rewrite parts better

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    • MossBear@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      In this case it sounds like they were talking about their next game rather than a current project.

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  • cjthomp@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    1. It’s a significant effort to change engines
    2. Even though it’s just one dev, they’re giving Unity a reason to revert. If you just say “Yo, I’m OUT!” then they’ve already lost you and they have no reason to revert on your behalf.

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    • MossBear@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      If Developers were in a relationship with Unity, it’d be the sort where Unity always comes home drunk and is verbally abusive, but they stick around with the belief that Unity will change.

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  • Alimentar@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Cause it’s probably not worth it for them to migrate and learn/train on a new engine unless Unity goes forward with their plans.

    But you’re right, this completely destroyed Unity’s reputation. Even if they revert, who’s to say they won’t try something like this future.

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• sverit@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  With the words of the rust developer: Unity can get fucked

  garry.net/posts/unity-can-get-fucked

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  • Turun@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I read rust as the programming language for way too long reading that article, lmao.

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    • EtzBetz@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Ohhhh me too, right until “Rust 2 won’t be a Unity game”

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    • Hadriscus@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Same I way confused. Didn’t know of a game also named Rust

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  • LeadSoldier@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’m buying rust and a few other games that I am probably not going to have time to play in order to support these companies.

    Fuck unity! Unite!

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• whoisearth@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  OMG that last bolded line made me legit LOL. Gotta love it!

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  • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Agreed.

    I was like… DAAAAAAAMN.

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• paddirn@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Just the latest in a wave of companies that seem to be looking for ever-more scummy ways to take advantage of their customers in search of the Holy Dollar.

  This is hardly a comprehensive list, there’s so many recently, but this is just what I could remember off the top of my head:

  • Wizards of the Coast
  • Adobe
  • X-Rite/Pantone/Danaher
  • Monotype
  • BMW
  • Netflix
  • Reddit

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  • SHOW_ME_YOUR_ASSHOLE@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Add Google/YouTube to that list as well! Google is enshittifying both Chrome and YouTube to prevent ad blocking.

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  • morriscox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Evernote. Mentioning adding AI is a red flag for incoming price hikes and limitations.

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  • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    • Wizards of the Coast

    The OGL stuff and the Pinkerton incident, right?

    • Adobe

    They’ve been pretty shitty for a while now. What have they done recently? (I don’t use any of their stuff.)

    • X-Rite/Pantone/Danaher

    Don’t even know who these guys are.

    • Monotype

    Something font-related?

    • BMW

    This is the heated seat subscription, right? Anything else I’m not aware of?

    • Netflix

    Account sharing?

    • Reddit

    No explanation needed there.

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    • brianorca@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Pantone suddenly decided to assert copyright and licensing to the literal names of colors in a way the broke art files going back decades.

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  • SYNOPSIS@lemmyf.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Add sony to that list for the recent ps plus price hike and google for their new invasive ad tracking feature in chrome and their youtube ad changes.

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• Comment105@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Yeah fuck Unity, I’d love to see devs abandon them altogether whether they revert the changes or not.

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• FartsWithAnAccent@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Fuck yeah devs! Get em!

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• SkinnyTimmy@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Slay the Spire is currently -66% on steam… just saying

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• wccrawford@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I would love to know what they would port to. UE and Godot seem like obvious candidates.

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  • drphungky@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Unreal could do the exact same thing. Obviously preaching to the choir on a Lemmy instance of all places, but open source is the only way to be safe for the future. If you’re already making the switch because Unity forces your hand, you might as well go with the long runway.

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    • Pxtl@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Not only can UE do the exact same thing, but Epic doesn’t need small indies as much since they have a more diverse clientbase of heavy-hitters. Epic is much more able to absorb the damage if they make a pricing change that loses them the indie market.

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  • simple@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    If it’s a 3D game, UE is a safe choice. If it’s 2D I’m willing to bet they’ll go with Godot.

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• BustinJiber@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Haven’t Hearthstone been made in Unity? Are we to believe Blizzard will be OK with this?

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• smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  This is what we get with propietary software. We can’t go to another entity or create one to develop the engine for us moving forward. We can’t take the current state of the engine and just patch it to keep existing games alive.

  If you depend on some work and that work is being done by software only some other company control, this company is really in the control of that work.

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• cloud@lazysoci.al ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Get fucked, you could have use godot to develop your game or any other free engine

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• DarkThoughts@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Why does Nitter.net block VPNs? Literally worse than Twatter.

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• PutangInaMo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Reminds me of when oracle changed their licensing model.

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