plug a solar panel into a large battery backup, plug the major appliances into that.
Utility companies don’t need to know shit.
Easy-to-use solar panels are coming, but utilities are trying to delay them
Submitted 3 weeks ago by fuzzyfirefox@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.npr.org/2026/03/12/nx-s1-5737287/solar-panels-utilities-energy-saving
Comments
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
artyom@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
That’s what I have. Basically a small-ish parallel electrical system that runs critical loads like a mini split, refrigerator, water heater, etc. And a small UPS for modem/server.
SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
These can output 1800W, 1100Wh, Starts at CAD$700 then you just pay more for more storage for bigger systems.
clif@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Out of curiosity, how do you have that setup (at a high level)?
I’ve got a bluetti system for emergency power (12kWh, 6kW AC output) but I need to plug things directly into it. It’d be nice to feed it directly to my house wiring but … selectively. That is, I wouldn’t want to power the HVAC but it would be nice to not have to shuffle the fridge/freezer plugs from the wall to the inverter.
Dedicated circuit(s) with a manual switch from mains to inverter, I’m guessing? But then we get into all the extras required to do that safely and avoid back feeding the grid.
Granted, they have systems/setups specifically for whole house power but I don’t want to feed the whole house, just the important circuits/appliances.
doctor0710@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
My thoughts exactly. Also I wouldn’t really like to risk my stuff by connecting to their infrastructure anyway. At least over here, I saw how incompetent they are.
raynethackery@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Why don’t we just change the revenue model for power companies. I understand they need money to maintain the infrastructure and pay employees. If power generation becomes so cheap that it can’t sustain the company then don’t rely on that for revenue. I’d rather pay a flat rate for the infrastructure and operating costs than a fluctuating generation charge. And public utilities should not be for profit.
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Many places already do charge a “line charge” if you have solar power and use little or no utility company power. You pay for being hooked up to the grid even if you barely use it.
TrumpetX@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
This. This is the way. It solves this problem completely, but utilities somehow refuse it. It’s almost like their argument is not in good faith …
Enekk@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is how it works in my area. I pay about $12/mo in fees, the rest is handled by solar. They also don’t pay me for excess solar, instead I get credit (in kWh, not dollars, thankfully) for it and any electricity I use at night or in the winter comes from that pool. Essentially, it makes the power company a big battery for me.
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
When I got solar panels on my previous home there was a $5 a month line charge. That when went up to $8 the next year, then $10, then closer to $20. The power company (Duke Energy in case anyway wants to the shitty company’s name) was determined to make it as painful as possible for people to use Solar. They were also apparently responsible for pushing to get it illegal in that area to go “off grid” and to have a cap on the amount of solar power a home could generate. At now point did these line changes stop them from raising the normal power usage rates mind you, this was just an extra “fuck you” from them.
hasnt_seen_goonies@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s what your public service commission is for! (In most states). They come up with how the costs of the utility gets passed to consumers. I agree that making sure that infrastructure costs get passed to people who have solar panels, especially if they are relying on that infrastructure at sun-not-being-in-sky hours.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If power generation becomes so cheap that it can’t sustain the company then don’t rely on that for revenue.
I’m not aware of anywhere power generation is that cheap yet. That may be a problem for the future when commercial fusion is viable, but thats likely a lifetime away.
I’d rather pay a flat rate for the infrastructure and operating costs than a fluctuating generation charge.
I think everyone would, but the cost for generation is always fluctuating because the variation in the market for the fuels that generate electricity, supply, and demand of electricity on the market. If its a flat rate, and that rate is below the cost of generating the electricity, who pays?
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Ohio does something like that. We have separate contracts with a heavily regulated grid operator for distributing power, and our choice of generation companies for providing power.
The grid operator does our metering and billing, but forwards our generation charge to the provider we select.
ysjet@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Considering how horribly corrupt PUCO is- quite literally the largest modern bribery scandal (possibly the largest in the history) of the US, lets maybe not Ohio as an example here.
For context for everyone else, this was so bad republicans literally threw a senior republican politician (sitting state representative, former speaker of the house) in jail for a 20 year sentence.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
If your business is critical for modern human living, it should be non-profit. It should be guided by the best management plan of the time, debated and approved by the majority of shareholders. It should open its books and stay open.
Really, it should be government.
MalReynolds@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
May I introduce you to the concept of ‘natural monopoly’.
Basically most natural monopolies (power, phone lines, roads etc) in most places were historically run by governments (because it’s bloody sensible) until the neoliberal movement in the 80s privatized them because ‘private enterprise is more efficient’ (at extracting tax dollars as it turned out) and to balance a few budgets.
Should definitely be ruled a failed experiment and rolled back.
dovahking@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Hold on! You’re telling me every common utility is run by corpos in America? I thought it was limited to only telecom.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
The “natural monopoly” of electrical power is only on the distribution, not the generation of that power. It is reasonable for various generators to compete against each other to meet grid demand.
You should be able to push power back onto the grid. You should not be limited only to taking it off the grid. If you can put more on than you remove, you should be compensated for your generation at the market rate.
LastYearsIrritant@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
My power company is a co-op. They have long term contracts with various providers, so my power bill doesn’t fluctuate much on short term news.
At the end of every year, we get a check in the mail we get a dividend for any excess profit.
Pretty sure all utilities should work that way.
zewm@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“Non profit” “shareholders”. Pick one.
valek879@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I assume they meant stakeholders…cuz like yo, that’s us!
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Are you saying that electrical power should only be provided by government entities?
Should you be allowed to plug in a solar panel and provide power back to the grid?
Are you a government entity?
melsaskca@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Capitalism. Anyone who tries not to buy my shit is my enemy.
M0oP0o@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
Wait, solar panels are hard to use? When did they fuck that up?
Gladaed@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Misleading name. These are basically all-in-one solar panels. It is much better to separate out inverters since they are scarce and expensive.
tidderuuf@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I just got off the phone with a solar installer and they had 2 products, one which cost nearly 60-100k to install and could be done right away because of a deal with my local gov and electric utility. Also the net metering rate and credits are getting reduced by the same utility which is actually making a return on investment harder.
OR
Another solar product costs 40k but it may take years to get approval which is not guaranteed because so far every attempt for approval from the local gov and electric utility have been in limbo or flat out denied.
🤔
chunes@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
that’s so blatant
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
In many areas, they flat out don’t allow the second one at all.
LordCrom@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
In Florida I’m calling out FPL the local power company.
You would think in Florida having solar panels is a no brainer, but FPL fought it for years.
FPL successfully lobbied to have insurance companies deny coverage if panels are installed on a roof. You can’t get windstorm insurance with panels unless you paythrought the nose.
FPL successfully lobbied to force homeowners with powerwalls and panels to take out a 1 million dollar insurance policy payable to FPL in case there’s an accident that damages the grid…an accident that has never happened, ever.
FPL then has the gall to advertise solar energy and all the benefits, you can sign up for solar power provided by FPL for a slight increase in your bill to help the environment.
Mother fucking FPL
RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
We should also use public banking to allow apartment complexes where the majority want regular solar to have it installed and paid back as a cut of the solar savings.
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Didn’t read article, but can tell headline is BS already
Alloi@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Alwaysnownevernotme@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Whew, his comment history.
Acronyms are beyond his reach.
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
worhui@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I’m really interested in this technology. I can’t get a roof solar installation. I want a add a few panels but I don’t know where to practically start.
jode@pawb.social 3 weeks ago
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Buy a corn farm and change the crop from corn to solar. Between 25% and 48% of the corn in the US is turned into ethanol for cars. You’d be doing double duty and living the capitalists wet dream of one time investment with constant return.
worhui@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I would stop at buying a house. I worked on a farm. I now work with computers. It is on purpose.
kittykillinit@lemy.lol 2 weeks ago
I’m so glad companies have enough excessive funds to use that money against me.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 2 weeks ago
How hard is it to use something you plug in and leave sitting somewhere facing the sun? 🤨
scytale@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
My backyard faces west and I’d happily fill half of it with plug-in panels if I could.
artyom@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
I mean, it makes sense to me that consumers can’t be pumping energy into the grid with no way to cut it off, but I’m not a lineman or some sort of civil engineer or whatever.
But if I were a lawmaker, I’d be on the phone with the Germans, who have 1.2M of these connected, and figuring out if and how they’re doing it safely. But lawmakers seem to be somehow incapable of reaching out to people who know fuck all about anything.
eleitl@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
The microinverters stop feeding in if grid goes down. So it’s safe.
CMahaff@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Hmmm, I wonder how this would affect things in the future where this is widely used.
I.E. if you had both widespread solar usage and some kind of large blackout, would it be hard to get all your solar back online because it’s all in the “waiting for the grid” state? And the grid can’t come back at capacity because all the solar it’s expecting is out?
I assume people smarter than me have this figured out, but just a random thought if anyone knows more.
artyom@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
How do you know? In a typical solar system, you have to have a permit, which requires an inspector to come out and ensure everything is configured correctly and safely. These don’t require any permits, which is great for making them more affordable and accessible, but there’s also no one coming around to make sure that anyone is doing it safely.
Buelldozer@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Assuming its not cheap piece of crap that isn’t UL listed and that’s where the problem is.
4am@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
What happens when someone makes an unsafe backfeed into a downed grid and then other nearby inverters detect the current and bring themselves back online? Is there a way to detect if the load is being delivered from the utility vs from incorrectly configured solar or generator installations?
Some others are arguing back and forth about this elsewhere in the thread and I see the reasoning: unpermitted systems could accidentally energize isolated portions of the grid during downtime, which might trick properly installed systems to also come back online, and you have a runaway effect where there is enough current present to allow addition safety systems to be fooled.
There isn’t any data transmission over the wires; there either is current, or there isn’t. Arguing over permitting is moot - either safety systems can handle this scenario already, or they can’t.
All paperwork does is slow the relief of dependence on the utility, which hurts their profits.
spitfire@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Or if the voltage is too high. Or at least they should be
SrMono@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
They are commonly used in many parts of Europe.
If you drop some Tariff percentages, we might be willing to advise.
artyom@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
Sure, but the article specifically mentions Germany, which leads me to believe they’re likely most abundant in that region?
Pretty sure there are tons of people who would be willing to advise on how to improve the world without discussion of tariffs that are entirely in the control of a single moron-in-chief.
RblScmNerfHerder@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
In the US, reaching out to other countries for advice, even if they’re our allies, seems to be viewed as treason. At a minimum, seems like treason against “real” masculinity, on which American culture is fueled, especially now.
‘Why don’t you just stop to ask for directions?’
‘I know where I’m going!!1!1111!1!!!1!’
🙄
cynar@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I had a chat about this with a friend who works for the national grid (UK).
Apparently the problem is keeping the grid balanced and stable. Basically, the grid struggles to react fast, so they plan ahead. Things like large scale solar can provide predictions on output. Home solar can’t.
When clouds pass over an area it can cause slumps and surges in the local grid. The more home solar, the worse it gets. The current grid is designed to work top down, with predictable changes in demand. It needs upgrading to deal with large scale bidirectional flows.
The plug in units are (potentially) even more ropey. If used properly, they are no worse than normal home solar. Unfortunately, being cheaper, there are worries over the microinverters not shutting down. Either due to the manufacturer cheaping out, or turning on an “off grid” mode.
There are also worries about overloading household circuits. Back feeding bypasses the household circuit breakers and RCDs. They could overload wall wiring and cause fires, or stop an RCD tripping, allowing for a person to be shocked.
I don’t know how much this would apply to the American Grid, but I would imagine it would be worse. Your grid is older and larger. You also use 120VAC which makes the current overload issue a lot worse.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Voltage inside of residences is 120v AC, but its 240v thats delivered to each house. I think a bigger difference is that in the USA that 240v AC is single phase where I believe (Germany included) many nations in the EU are 3 phase.
bjoern_tantau@swg-empire.de 3 weeks ago
Ugh, not Germany. Try the Netherlands. In Germany it is a huge bureaucratic undertaking to put energy back into the grid. In the Netherlands (as far as I know) your meter just runs backwards and at the end of the year you just pay the difference or nothing if it’s lower than the year before.
In Germany your electricity provider pays you for what you put back into the grid. But not as much as pulling out is worth. That’s why almost all solar solutions in Germany are either small or need a battery because using the energy yourself is worth more than sharing it with everyone.
coyootje@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
There are people in the Netherlands that have the system you describe. This is pretty rare though due to the massive push for new energy meters that’s been going on for the last 10 years or so. And with good reason: lots of the old meters people had were pretty unsafe and unreliable. For most people, having automatic usage reports going to both them and the electricity provider far outweighs the downsides.
Most of us are in a similar situation as Germany. We have smart meters that allow you to provide power back to the grid and this is currently very profitable. However, from 2027 onwards they are (mostly) getting rid of the profits this brings the consumer, in order to make the grid more stable and also for other, less clear (most likely energy company and government spending related) reasons.
As someone who’s worked in the grid provider field for a bit I’m not necessarily against this change; peak power surges due to lots of people selling of their excess solar power production is a huge problem that’s making the energy transition that much more difficult. Even in local grids, we’re starting to have to use massive power cables to be able to handle this. This brings with it a lot of extra costs and permit nonsense, making the life of the grid manager that much more difficult.
I wish people would take this upcoming deadline to start electrying more things in their house. But if my parents are anything to go by, all they’ll do is complain about losing their golden goose that they’ve profited from for over 10 years. They could get an electric car instead of their nonsense plug-in hybrid, they could electrify their heating needs, they could install a home battery and so much more. I know it costs money to do so but you basically run all of it for free most of the year. And besides that, with all the current global issues that are going on the reliance on fossil fuels should be phased out rapidly.
zod000@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
These systems are designed to not push power back up if the grid goes down. In most areas, the municipality won’t even allow a solar installation to be connected or even finished without it being inspected to verify you have that sort of setup.
artyom@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
What system?
My research shows theres no permitting required in Utah but please correct me if I’m wrong.
saimen@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
I wasn’t aware balcony solar isn’t a thing in other countries because it’s everywhere here in Germany. So I was wondering what new thing they are talking about being even more easier.
Lexam@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They have been constantly working to reach out to the utility companies to find a way to halt this.
user28282912@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
It is more than just the concern around back-feeding the grid. These simple balcony setups connect to your home grid via a single outlet. Most US outlets/circuits are 15 AMP or roughly 1500 watts max capacity. These single circuits can only carry that much current total at any one time so if you have it loaded up with incoming power AND use anything else on the circuit at the same time … no bueno. To make this setup work best/safely you would ideally want a dedicated circuit for it which is basically non-existent today.
The safety issues really do need to be addressed because the folks most likely to use these systems are apartment dwellers and I don’t think anyone wants to increase fire risk in these scenarios.
artyom@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
That’s why they’re limited to 1200 watts.
ThePantser@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
If you use anything else on the circuit the power from the solar will just go directly into that device and bypass the wall wiring entirely.
eleitl@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
This is why balkonkraftwerk is limited to 800 W feed-in.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I’m certain they’re designed to safely be able to do this
discocactus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Almost certainly, because people use gas generators as backup in storm hit areas all the time.
artyom@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
What are?