Children are not the only ones being harmed here. This selective focus is only going to destroy the perception of other groups in terms of harm. Teenagers, young people, old people are also being harmed here - it is by design, and its everyone.
YSK TikTok Is Harming Children at an Industrial Scale. We know this because we obtained messages from TikTok engineers and executives
Submitted 2 weeks ago by Luniio@lemmy.world to youshouldknow@lemmy.world
https://www.afterbabel.com/p/industrial-scale-harm-tiktok
Comments
Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
fishy@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Yup, nobody is immune or above being harmed by the algorithms.
Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I bet this is related to Palantir facial recognition.
ilovepiracy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Always has been. You’ve been fingerprinted on the web for 10 years minimum. You know those secret aliases you had? Yeah they always knew they were you.
minorkeys@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Oh look, another company that knows it’s harming people and society, hides it and keeps on chasing profit and power.
LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Just remember tick tock is illegal for citizens to use in the country that invented it.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah that’s because they have a state sanctioned version of TikTok that is controlled by an algorithm that police’s peoples speech and what they do and reports anything untoward to the proper authorities.
And now that Fox News has bought TikTok, the US has their own version of an algorithm that will police people’s speech and what they do, and most likely report anything untoward to the proper authorities.
pkjqpg1h@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
other is Meta right?
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m looking forward to the day when social media is heavily regulated and age-gated.
RaoulDuke25@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Or parents can do their job. We have to suffer with age verification bullshit laws that’s just there to have us all in a database.
grue@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Not having it be regulated makes it a lot harder for parents to do their job, because the kids with responsible parents are getting peer-pressured by the kids with irresponsible parents.
Or put another way: you’re not making parents do their jobs; you’re making their jobs impossible by forcing them to choose between ruining their kid’s mental health by letting her be exposed to social media, or ruin her mental health by forcing her to be ostracised for not using social media.
The only way to have a successful outcome is to force everyone else’s kids not to use it, not just your own, and no amount of rugged individualist good parenting can accomplish that by itself!
That said, I am extremely sympathetic to the arguments against age verification laws too, which is why my preferred solution would be to fucking outlaw and destroy corporate social media entirely, for kids and adults alike.
Zoot@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Oh won’t someone think of the parents though?! How can they be expected to parent their own children, oh the humanity
shawn1122@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Durable societies are unfortunately bound to have such inconveniences for some in exchange for the betterment of many.
Tech companies have released the equivalent of digital opium so they and the government are accountable.
When we look back at the opioid epidemic of the 90s we don’t blame the addicts or their families (well I suppose we did at one point, without the benefit of hindsight or a bigger picture view), we blame the Sacklers, pharmaceutical companies, doctors that took kickbacks etc.
I’d hate for us to make the same mistake just because the drug is delivered in a way we don’t completely understand yet.
It’s also not as simple as asking parents to simply be better at parenting, whatever that may mean. The drug is already out on the street, widely available, and ridiculously addictive. Keeping your child from it is not only depriving them of a dopamine hit that their brains are not developed enough to simply ignore (even most adults are addicted) and it is in many cases relegating them to social ostracization.
This is far beyond what one parent or group of parents can fix. It requires a societal level change which generally needs to come from the government, whether we like it or not.
Are we a society that collectively cares about the next generation? If we are then a solution is necessary. I’d be happy to hear out possible solutions and, as a parent, share what is viable and what isn’t. It would be nice to hear from other parents also.
lemming@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Most parents won’t. People are people. Those that would want to have to ballance the risk of excluding their children from the collective.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Or parents can do their job.
They don’t, which is why regulation is essential.
And you’re already in the database.
fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
One lawmaker proposed a law that would make it illegal to allow your children to see “drag” so none of this has to deal with parents doing their jobs and everything to deal with giving Nazis control over what other people are allowed to see
southsamurai@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Yeah, and that’s how you get shitty age verification laws.
It’s a double edged sword
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Bummer that they’re necessary, but they are.
Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Age gated? You’d submit your driver’s license or identity to these sites?
BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
It’s already started, for porn. The kids don’t have to prove their age, they don’t have proper ID. So EVERYONE ELSE has to prove THEIR ages, and if you can’t, you are assumed to be underage.
See how well that works for the Nazis? Now they get to identify EVERYBODY who is on the Internet with their legal IDs, and they will know exactly who posted that nasty meme of Trump.
But it’s okay, because it protects the children.
SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Probably not. But I don’t use most of them and the ones I do use my account should be old enough that I don’t have to.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I can’t wait for the police to kick in my door and type my keys for me. jfc.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Already happening in some places, like Australia. Though I’m not sure if they’ll actually be able to enforce it.
floquant@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
The exact same thing happened with Instagram years ago.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
and Facebook.
and MySpace.
and club penguin.
and…
acockworkorange@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
It’s starting to feel this whole capitalism for children isn’t healthy.
AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But club penguin is kill. I remember. I was at home, eating dorito.
Kkk2237pl@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Not only tiktok. My parents are addicted to facebook stories and YouTube stories ;)
The same algorithm…
What is more there a lot of Russian propaganda and misinformation. But in Poland that’s common in social media
Loui@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Same in Germany. 😒 Why can’t we cut off Russia from our networks or do anything to counter them.
I feel like we are sleepwalking into a disaster.
People need to understand that we are at war and treat Russia as the enemy.
It doesn’t matter that there is little hard proof Putin, his secret service or who ever is behind this. When EVERYTHING points to their direction then you have to act.
We make them bigger than they have to be by ‘playing fair’ when they stopped doing that decades ago or never even did themselves. This is entirely an advantage we can take from them.
Although I admit it’s much harder for an open, democratic society to agree to play ‘unfair’ like the enemy. But maybe there is another way? Don’t compromise your ideals but bring pro western propaganda to Russian minds.
They don’t respect our cyber sovereignty for lack of a better word. Why should we respect theirs.
Other countries do this as well and we need to build our defences or otherwise we will be the punching bag for others.
BrainInABox@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Sounding like the villain from Doctor strangelove
sudoer777@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
It’s harmful to everyone not just children, and so is Instagram
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
I never wanted TikTok for this reason, and I remember the damage YouTube did to my brother, despite my warnings.
He was happily watching Tree Happy Friends as a toddler.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’m thinking, how are youtube shorts and Instagram reels any different from tiktok
thespcicifcocean@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Jesus, happy tree friends fucked me up and I was legally an adult
winkerjadams@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I enjoyed happy tree friends as a kid and it didn’t effect me negatively. Different strokes for different folks I guess. It’s like arguing that GTA makes kids violent.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s Ok now though cause TikTok was bought by Fox News.
kamen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If I ever have children, TikTok will be one of the first things I’ll have blocked for them.
derpgon@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
Right before Facebook, Instagram, Xitter, and probably some other social scourges that I forget about.
Badargel@thelemmy.club 2 weeks ago
If your parents do that for you, you’d find a way around it. As someone with no kids, it’s something I’ve thought about, but I feel like there has to be another solution.
kamen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah, maybe you’re right. Seems like a better idea would be to just talk to the kids and get them convinced that it’s trash and/or find them something more productive to do.
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Yeah, the old “strict parents make sneaky kids” thing is unfortunately very true. You won’t stop the kids from doing it. You’ll just lose the ability to monitor them when they inevitably do it behind your back anyways.
Skullgrid@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If your parents do that for you, you’d find a way around it.
Them finding a way around it , hopefully technically, at least makes them grow their problems solving, motivation and rebellion skills
pkjqpg1h@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
We should promote long content and books instead of this short-shit
hereiamagain@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I’ve never installed tiktok. And I got rid of Instagram years before shorts. Additionally, while I enjoy long form YouTube videos from non-brainrot creators, I haven’t used the official app in years, so I avoid shorts there as well.
I’m not bragging, it’s just relevant to my next statement:
I too feel like my content consumption isn’t long enough. I think the instant gratification of moving to the next thing minutes after the first is bad for our brains.
In the last couple of months I have started reading again. Audiobooks mostly, and I know it’s not the same, but it engages my brain while driving for work.
Additionally, in the last few weeks, I’ve changed our TV habits. We usually watch 2 or 3 hours of TV in the evenings, which is probably too long by some metrics but I’m not ready to cut back yet, personally. What I have done, however, is stop binging.
Normally we pick two, maybe three at most, shows we want to watch. Then we burn through them, episode after episode. Churning through the seasons until they’re either gone or we’re caught up with it’s production.
Lately, I’ve done the opposite. We watch one episode of a show we like. Only one. We can watch one of another show if we want. But thus far we haven’t added more shows to the rotation, hard to keep track, might negate benefits, IDK.
When we’ve watched one episode of one or two shows. We either change gears and stop watching TV, or watch a movie.
By that time, the time for TV is more of less over.
Already I’m seeing benefits, small, but I’m happy. The next day, in my idle thoughts, I’ll find myself thinking about what happened in the show, and making connections and predictions that I otherwise wouldn’t have made. I enjoy this.
Plus we have a backlog of movies, we’re really bad about dedicating time to movies, even though we’d gladly waste that time watching several episodes in a row of a show 🤦♂️ So I’m glad to be getting into some good movies too.
mic_check_one_two@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Audiobooks mostly, and I know it’s not the same
FWIW, studies have found that reading and speech activate different language regions of the brain… But oddly enough, audiobooks activate the reading parts of the brain, not just the speech parts. So it may be more similar than you’d initially think.
I finally got my AudioBookShelf instance up and running last year, around March. In those remaining 7 months, I “read” (listened to) over 50 books. I used to be a voracious reader as a child. But at some point I lost the spark, as finding time to read got harder and harder. Audiobooks have reignited that love for reading, in a way I can’t even put into words.
I find myself looking forward to my daily commute, because it means I can listen to another two or three chapters in the car. I’ve even started taking the longer route home (which is technically more fuel efficient, but adds like 10 minutes to my commute) because I don’t mind the extra time in the car. I find myself wanting to wash the dishes or fold the laundry, because I can have my earbuds in while I work.
I still doomscroll on YouTube shorts or Instagram reels occasionally, but that doesn’t mean I have to give up long form content like reading. They fill two entirely separate niches.
pkjqpg1h@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
we’re really bad about dedicating time to movies I should start watching movies instead of TV-shows. I used to binge-watch and it feels unsatisfying
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Yeah ofc. It’s run by genocidal fascists.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It was run by genocidal fascists before. Just different ones.
utopiah@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Damn… money laundering though LIVE with its “gifts” I never thought about this. Everything else is wrong, at scale, but this surprised me.
wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
If you watch a decent amount of twitch streaming it’s pretty obvious. I’m sure there are a ton of whales out there willing to dump >$1000 in one go on a streamer, but just watch something like a “subathon”, or a “hype train”. You’ll see more dollars than viewers they have move around in the span of like 30 minutes.
Or when streamers “bet” each other large amounts of gift subscriptions. That’s explicitly money, and abstracting it behind subs only masks how damn much a lot of these “bets” are really for.
I’m not going to claim that anywhere near all of it is straight laundering, but it’s pretty damn obvious just how fucking easy it would be to use it all for washing/tumbling of dirty funds.
AntiBullyRanger@ani.social 2 weeks ago
Several folks owe me apologies.
Virtvirt588@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What is this meant to prove?
This looks more like Darwinism, chocking will cause you severe discomfort no matter how old you are.
AntiBullyRanger@ani.social 2 weeks ago
That Tiktok encourages suicide stunts, as we read above, esp. if it goes against ToS‽
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
No wonder trump wanted to “Americanize” the company. More access to kids.
Silly@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
I feel like this is just “videogames cause violence” part 2
NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Social media is a scourge on society, mostly bcz of the propaganda, misinformation, and disinformation campaigns from state actors. This is a very different and real issue we as a species are dealing with.
hellure@lemmy.org 1 week ago
Just like educational programs and cheating on school tests are things and cheating is moderated by social rules against it, social media has benefits, and there are visual rules we must define and utilize to moderate it.
Post engaging factual content and responses. Not for-profit, but for the benefit of the community.
And upvote as much posted by others.
Downvote low quality, misleading, manipulative, commercial, or factually incorrect posts and responses.
And, block or ban repeat offenders or commercial accounts.
rumba@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Social media is just one of many forms of open communication that any technological society will eventually have to weather.
What’s going on now could have happened in email chains or newsgroups (truthfully worse had probably happened on usenet just at smaller scales)
As much as social media leaves a vile taste in our mouths, I’d say the problem is beyond social media itself; it’s just the transport, or the messenger if you will. People are sending the drivel, projectile vomiting it back and forth, anonymous, non-anonymous, verified, paid-verified.
The bar used to be well if you leave things unchecked, you end up with kiddie pics, but that apparently isn’t bad enough anymore.
Public forums need to be moderated. Some basic level of morals, voted on openly by the masses, needs to set the moral limits of speech. Free Speech at the cost of hate speech? Free Speech at the cost of facist takeovers? How about another fairness in broadcasting act. How about penalties for fake news? How about penalties for opinion pieces filled with lies?
We are incapable of moderating ourselves well enough not to have some safeguards in place. We are also incapable of letting the “elected officials” decide what those safeguards should be. Shit needs to be WAAAAY more democratic than Bob Moneybags deciding that pornhub is too much because he managed to gerrymander his way into power. Morale laws get voted on directly from the individual, and all Bob gets to do is suggest what goes on the ballot.
flango@lemmy.eco.br 2 weeks ago
KY P.40, PARA 125 [REDACTED BUT RETRIEVABLE TEXT]
The ‘TikTank’ [internal TikTok group studying issues affecting TikTok] Report observed that “Tiktok is particularly popular with younger users who are particularly sensitive to reinforcement in the form of social reward and have minimal ability to self-regulate effectively.”
Well, they are targeting young users because it’s a biological fact that they can’t control themselves very well, meaning that their brains are not fully developed yet. This is like making profits from people with diabetes by selling expensive insulin; if they don’t get it, they die.
TikTok should answer legally by its actions, as well as other industries.
FalschgeldFurkan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is like making profits from people with diabetes by selling expensive insulin; if they don’t get it, they die.
More like taking advantage of a drunk person, but I agree. Still a shitty thing to do.
nialv7@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Is TikTok really harming children, or is this just our generation’s “television/internet/video games are bad for children”?
AntiBullyRanger@ani.social 2 weeks ago
dandylion@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
i mean yeah that helps the growth of idiocracy so is it a surprise?
lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com 2 weeks ago
skill issue
JcbAzPx@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Interesting that as soon as China loses control of it, we get stories about how it’s so bad for you. News flash, it’s always been bad for you. It and all the others like it are one of the major reasons the world is the way it is today.
kuhli@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
This didn’t change after china lost control of it
gustofwind@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They tried warning us about fb over 10 years ago and nothing happened
Rooster326@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I wouldn’t say nothing happened. Young people migrated off of it and it’s now the lead gasoline of the social media world
gustofwind@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah but young people didn’t migrate off it because it was harmful
They migrated in part to instagram which Facebook bought and made even more harmful than Facebook itself
gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
back then it wasn’t about political independence from the US.
the EU has made a lot of noise in the last 2 weeks about getting off of US platforms. Here’s a few examples:
apnews.com/…/europe-digital-sovereignty-big-tech-…
ecfr.eu/…/get-over-your-x-a-european-plan-to-esca…
There’s many more. The movement is significant.
AutistoMephisto@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Then literally Web 2.0 is the problem. All social media stops existing if we go back from Web 2.0.
dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
social media just needs http requests to exist, how does pre web 2.0 fix things honestly
thejoker954@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
let’s just go back to dial up internet.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
25 years ago. Every study on social media and mental health back then showed it was bad.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Nah, the perpetrators continues to make endless money, etc. Lots of capitalist stuff has been happening.