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Microsoft says Copilot will 'finish your code before you finish your coffee' adding fuel to the Windows 11 AI controversy that's still raging

⁨450⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨throws_lemy@reddthat.com⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://www.techradar.com/computing/windows/microsoft-says-copilot-will-finish-your-code-before-you-finish-your-coffee-provoking-another-barrage-of-anti-ai-and-windows-11-sentiment

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  • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It says it will finish the code, it doesn’t say the code will work.

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    • Thorry@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Also just because the code works, doesn’t mean it’s good code.

      I’ve had to review code the other day which was clearly created by an LLM. Two classes needed to talk to each other in a bit of a complex way. So I would expect one class to create some kind of request data object, submit it to the other class, which then returns some kind of response data object.

      What the LLM actually did was pretty shocking, it used reflection to get access from one class to the private properties with the data required inside the other class. It then just straight up stole the data and did the work itself (wrongly as well I might add). I just about fell of my chair when I saw this.

      So I asked the dev, he said he didn’t fully understand what the LLM did, he wasn’t familiar with reflection. But since it seemed to work in the few tests he did and the unit tests the LLM generated passed, he thought it would be fine.

      Also the unit tests were wrong, I explained to the dev that usually with humans it’s a bad idea to have the person who wrote the code also (exclusively) write the unit tests. Whenever possible have somebody else write the unit tests, so they don’t have the same assumptions and blind spots. With LLMs this is doubly true, it will just straight up lie in the unit tests. If they aren’t complete nonsense to begin with.

      I swear to the gods, LLMs don’t save time or money, they just give the illusion they do. Some task of a few hours will take 20 min and everyone claps. But then another task takes twice as long and we just don’t look at that. And the quality suffers a lot, without anyone really noticing.

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      • airgapped@piefed.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Great description of a problem I noticed with most LLM generated code of any decent complexity. It will look fantastic at first but you will be truly up shit creek by the time you realise it didn’t generate a paddle.

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      • Kissaki@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        So I asked the dev, he said he didn’t fully understand what the LLM did, he wasn’t familiar with reflection.

        Big baffling facepalm moment.

        If they would at least prefix the changeset description with that it’d be easier to interpret and assess.

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      • floofloof@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Who hasn’t encountered that one jerk who builds only new code to impress management, and never maintains or fixes existing code? I think of them as proof-of-concept posers. They make things that look flashy, impress the execs, and dump all the bugs, maintenance and actual architecture on the other devs. LLMs are going to be a gift to these people and a pain for everyone who actually knows how to engineer things well. They’ll encourage this kind of shallow flashiness and make the maintenance problems worse, but the suits will be convinced that only the LLM posers are productive.

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      • Pieisawesome@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Why would unit tests not be written by the same person? That doesn’t make a lot of sense…

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      • criss_cross@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        They’ve been great for me at optimizing bite sized annoying tasks. They’re really bad at doing anything beyond that. Like astronomically bad.

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    • TORFdot0@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I was going to say. The code won’t compile but it will be “finished “

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      • WaitThisIsntReddit@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        A couple agent iterations will compile. Definitely won’t do what you wanted though, and if it does it will be the dumbest way possible.

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  • floofloof@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Ooh, unemployment! How exciting!

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    • BedSharkPal@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Seriously who the hell are they trying to sell this to?

      Are they just that desperate to keep the hype train going?

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      • TachyonTele@piefed.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Business owners. People that don’t want to spend money on annoying stuff like wages.

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      • halloween_spookster@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        The circlejerk of tech bros and busidiots who haven’t built a damn thing in their lives.

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      • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        retail suckers and losers who buy into the AI crap to keep the “bubble from bursting overnight”

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      • CosmoNova@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        There are entire media agencies that only do vibe coding. And that might be enough for a one-off event but many of them „develop“ long term solutions without knowing the code or it‘s vulnerabilities so it‘s safe to say their existence will be short lived.

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  • WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Copilot, turn on the gas stove without the pilot. Copilot, in 3 hours light the pilot.

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    • errer@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      My Windows automatically read these instructions from my screen and I died!

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      • adespoton@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        You forgot to follow it up with “copilot: open windows” then.

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    • apfelwoiSchoppen@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Username checks out

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  • thejml@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Copilot keeps finishing my code for me in near real time… it completely disrupts my train of thought and my productivity dropped tremendously. I finally disabled it.

    I LIKE writing code, stop trying to take the stuff away that I WANT to do and instead take away the stuff I HATE doing.

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    • lauha@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      What I don’t want AI to do:

      • write code for me
      • write fixes for me

      What I want it to do:

      • find bugs and tell me about them (but still don’t fix them)
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      • RagingRobot@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        They do have ones that will review your prs. That’s pretty neat

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    • Serinus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah, I just wrote a blog post comment about how I enjoy using Copilot. But that’s when I explicitly ask it a question or give it a task. The auto complete is wrong more often than it’s right.

      Probably doesn’t help that if it was tedious, boilerplate code I would have already explicitly asked it.

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      • bluGill@fedia.io ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I like auto complete because I'm a terrible speller I'd write "int countOfCommplixThang", but auto complete guesses "int countComplexThing" Sometimes it even comes up with a better name than I would

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    • criss_cross@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I wish I could get it to stop finishing comments for me. It’s like some jackass is trying to complete my sentence for me but gets it completely wrong every time and it breaks my train of thought.

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  • kreskin@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    yes but all the code will be wrong and you will spend your entire day chasing stupid mistakes and hallucinations in the code. I’d rather just write the code myself thanks.

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    • slampisko@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah! I can make my own stupid mistakes and hallucinations, thank you very much!

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  • Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    What they forget to mention is that you then spend the rest of the week to fix the bugs it introduced and to explain why your code deleted the production database…

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  • garretble@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I had a bit of a breakthrough with some personal growth with my code today.

    I learned a bit more about entity framework that my company is using for a project, and was able to create a database table, query it, add/delete/update, normal CRUD stuff.

    I normally work mostly on front end code, so it was rewarding to learn a new skill and see the data all the way from the database to the UI and back - all my code. I felt great after doing a code review this afternoon to make sure I wasn’t missing anything, and we talked about some refactoring to make it better.

    AI will never give you that.

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    • jbloggs777@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      No, but it can help a capable developer to have more of those moments, as one can use LLMs and coding agents to (a) help explain the relationships in a complicated codebase succinctly and (b) help to quickly figure out why one’s code doesn’t work as expected (from simple bugs to calling out one’s own fundamental misunderstandings), giving one more to focus on what matters to oneself.

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      • TORFdot0@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        AI can help you be more agile in getting out a PoC but vibe coding always ends up eating itself and you either aren’t capable enough to fix it (because you are a vibe coder) or you spend more time on the back 9, trying to clean up the code so you don’t have so many hacks and redundancy because the AI was too literal or hallucinated fake libraries that return null or its context window expired and it wrote 5 different versions of the same function

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      • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        giving one more time to focus on what matters to oneself.

        Is that been an insufferable prick online? Because I assure you no one wants you to spend more time on that, you spend enough time on that as it is.

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      • Serinus@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Wow, well it’s absolutely terrible at A. B is worth a shot, but it’s 50/50 to bullshit you in my experience.

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      • dust_accelerator@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        TBH, it’s not really that great at that. Is average at best and grossly misleading and flat out wrong at worst. It may bring slight speedups for average development on boring legacy enterprise code, but anything really novel and interesting? Detrimental.

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      • jj4211@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        help explain the relationships in a complicated codebase succinctly

        It will offer an explanation, one that sounds consistent, but it’s a crap shoot as to whether or not it accurately described the code, and no easy of knowing of the description is good or bad without reviewing it for yourself.

        I do try to use the code review feature, though that can declare bug based on bad assumptions often as well. It’s been wrong more times than it caught something for me.

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  • CosmoNova@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I was finished with Windows before Microshit finished Copilot.

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  • IonTempted@lemmynsfw.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    “Microsoft Says Copilot” is like a Two Sentence horror story for me now.

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  • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Love how they’re pretending that an LLM is useful for any task that needs precision.

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  • llama@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Actually it won’t be finishing anything because code is disposable now and nobody cares what trivial app somebody can churn out

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  • lightnegative@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Writing code is the reward for doing the thinking. If the LLM does it then software engineering is no fun.

    It’s like painting - once you’ve finally finished the prep, which is 90% of the effort, actually getting to paint is the reward

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    • PolarKraken@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      What a great way to frame it, I love this! I typically spend something like 60-80% of time available for a given task thinking through approaches and trade-offs, etc. Usually there comes a point when the way forward becomes clear, even obvious.

      After that? Bliss. I’m assembling a LEGO set I designed, composed of pieces I picked, and luxuriating in how it all feels, when put together.

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  • kyonshi@piefed.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Because you won’t have time to drink that coffee if you put this code into production

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  • Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    And it will leave you debugging strange code for two weeks afterward.

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  • njordomir@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    So why don’t they use it to unfuck Windows 11… before I finish my coffee?

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    • UsoSaito@feddit.uk ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It was the AI that messed it up to begin with lol. Vibe coding has often required coders having to go back and spend even more time fixing it then if they just did it themselves.

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    • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      best they can do is put more AI

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      • njordomir@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I already finished my coffee too. :-/

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    • bless@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      If you want it done before you finish your coffee, better tell it to start from scratch

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  • YesButActuallyMaybe@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Ah get outta here! Next time they’ll say that co pilot also chooses my furry porn and controls my buttplug while it codes for me.

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    • edgyspazkid@lemmy.wtf ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Image

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    • RagingRobot@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Oh wow I didn’t know about that butt plug thing. I’m playing in a chess tournament soon so that could come in handy

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  • Prior_Industry@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I mean it gets there in the end but it’s often three of four prompts before it provides working code for a relatively simple powershell script. Can’t imagine that it scales to complex code that well at the moment, but then again I’m not a coder.

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    • dogdeanafternoon@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You’re pretty much spot on

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  • umbrella@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    [deleted]
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    • apostate9@lemmy.libertarianfellowship.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Just enjoying this popcorn.

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  • MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    But, will it work, huh? HUH?

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    • andallthat@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      but can YOU do it before I finish my coffee?

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  • jjlinux@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    These fuckers at MicroShit have lost all the ability needed to read a room.

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    • deathbird@mander.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      When do you reckon they could last do that?

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      • Baggie@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Maybe after windows 8? Last time I can remember.

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  • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    My problem is that the dev and stage environments are giving me 502 gateway errors when hitting only certain api endpoints from the app gateway. My real problem is devops aren’t answering my support tickets and telling me which terraform var file I gotta muck with and tell me what to fix on it. I’m sure you’ll be fixed soon though right copilot?

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  • Lyrac@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Big over-promise. We’re heavily incentived to use an AI coding agent at work. I try to be optimistic and treat it like a tool to help me do things I already know how to do but a little bit faster. It takes multiple iterations of “no, this still isn’t working” to get something that I can touch up and push for review. The idea that I can prompt it and then step away for ten minutes to make coffee and return to an app is ludicrous.

    Maybe one day that will be possible. Then I’ll find a new job I guess

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  • WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Does its ai learn from people using vscode?

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    • vala@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yes

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  • melfie@lemy.lol ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    A more appropriate line would be that Copilot can shit out code faster than you can pinch off your own loaf.

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  • ABetterTomorrow@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    By the headline statement, that it should be complete and works 100%. Big doubt.

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    • jj4211@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      No, just complete. Whatever the dude does may have morning to do with what you needed it to do, but it will be “done”

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    • Evotech@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Depends. If it’s a script that will like, cut your video file every 10 seconds with ffmpeg or something simple. Yeah it will one-shot it.

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  • popekingjoe@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    But… But I don’t want it to. 😮‍💨

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  • aesthelete@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It’s great at bullshitting that it did what you wanted, which I guess is what counts for results at Microsoft.

    It would be much better if they treated it as the slightly better (yeah, I said it) auto complete that it is instead of the beginning of fucking sky net – which was supposed to be a bad thing anyway, remember?

    But that wouldn’t move the needle on all the share prices, so instead we have to pretend it can do people’s jobs when it fucking obviously cannot.

    So instead they keep pushing this as AI (auto-complete insanity), and keep burning more and more cash. Imagine if we just put a portion of these billions into anything that could actually help anyone. Or don’t, because it’s pretty fucking depressing to think about.

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  • melsaskca@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I would rather paint a portrait by myself, spending the time to do it, rather than asking some computer prompt to spit me out a picture. Same logic applies with coding for me.

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  • Siegfried@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If thats what they are aiming at, I feel like their AI is actually suppose to be the pilot and the user the copilot

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  • falseWhite@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I think I keep having the same deja vu for at least three years now. That, or these execs are fucking liars telling the same lie for the past 3 years.

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