There is no middle-class. There is the working class and the aristocrats.
People who say 'the rich get richer, the lazy live for free, and the middle class pays for it all' don't realize how expensive it is to be rich and how close middle class is to being below the poverty line.
Submitted 5 weeks ago by SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
Comments
Sanctus@anarchist.nexus 5 weeks ago
SatansMaggotyCumFart@piefed.world 5 weeks ago
That reminds me of a joke.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
The working class walks into a bar . . .
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
what’s the cut off?
L7HM77@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
When you start using your capitol to sway local governments in your favor
Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
Whether you own and control the technologies that transform input raw materials into output finished products, across the economy.
Fedegenerate@lemmynsfw.com 5 weeks ago
The difference between a million and a billion is about a billion. Millionaires are closer to zero than they are the ultra rich.
Kolanaki@pawb.social 5 weeks ago
“I am closer to becoming a millionaire than Elon Musk is.”
TranquilTurbulence@lemmy.zip 4 weeks ago
Turns out, I’m already a millionaire. Just need to take my 10 euros and exchange them for Libanese Pounds. I wonder if my local Forex has those…
SparroHawc@lemmy.zip 5 weeks ago
Millionaires don’t count as ‘rich’ any more.
OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I disagree.
Low millions, like your net worth in your 60s when you own a home, potentially two cars, and a retirement fund. 1-4 million? Sure, not rich, well off by most standards.
Closing in on thay double digit millions? Yeah you’re rich. Hell, in most of the US, having a net worth of 7 million dollars is the ‘eccentric millionaire’ level for most of rural America.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
most people middle aged people with six figure careers are millionaires. that’s why the number of millionaires keeps going up.
jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 5 weeks ago
Some of my peers should be rich enough to retire, but fell victim to lifestyle inflation. Sure they’re making $250k/year, but they moved into a $5k/mo apartment, go on expensive vacations, and just do whatever in their day to day. I don’t know where their money goes. Maybe they are secretly investing.
Meanwhile I live like a goblin on less
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
Sadly for your arguments, currently it is easier to lose any amount of money than to win it.
Furbag@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Lower, middle, and upper class is such an antiquated way of dividing people into groups to keep them at odds with each other.
The fact of the matter is, there are truthfully only two classes. The working class, and the capital class. 95-99% of individuals fall into some strata of working class. If you earn a wage, a salary, or a commission in order to purchase basic necessities- you are working class. If your money makes you money simply by existing, and your assets passively appreciating in value mean that you do not have to work for a living in order to buy basic necessities, then you are in the capital class.
Rooster326@programming.dev 5 weeks ago
It’s class warfare
Always was…
Tetragrade@leminal.space 5 weeks ago
FahrenheitGhost@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
The working class and the capital class = The slave class and the ruling class.
iii@mander.xyz 5 weeks ago
Most people are a bit of both, no?
Furbag@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Ideally, everyone would be in a position to break into the lowest strata of the capital class by the time they reach retirement age and can no longer work. For most people, that translates into a, IRA or 401k built over decades of years working, assets like a house appreciating in value (so that you can borrow against that increased value), and perhaps a pension or some other form of investment that yields dividends.
Even then. I’d argue that if you retire knowing that if you live within your means, your funds will last you for 20 years, you’re not actually in the capital class. It doesn’t matter for most people, because few people expect to be able to live for that long past retirement and they can always adjust their spending habits to push the number out a bit farther if it looks like they will outlive their retirement savings. But that’s just it, it’s more like a savings and not endlessly accumulating more and more wealth. For the true capital class, their money passively grows and generates more wealth faster than they can spend it.
zbyte64@awful.systems 5 weeks ago
Most people are living paycheck to paycheck… But if you mean owning stock or a retirement portfolio makes you a capitalist then I think that is still incorrect. People who actually own the company of whose stock you “own” can make decisions that will ultimately decimate your retirement savings while enriching themselves.
Miaou@jlai.lu 5 weeks ago
The GP earning 6 figures for prescribing boomer cunts opioids is clearly in the same social class as the construction worker whose life expectancy is below the retirement age.
Furbag@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
The construction worker and the doctor have more in common with each other than either of them do with the billionaire.
That mentality, that the two working class individuals are too different from one another to ever unify because of the fact that one makes more money than the other, is exactly the kind of mental attitude that the wealthy elite have cultivated for years to keep us at each other’s throats instead of theirs.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 5 weeks ago
hayvan@feddit.nl 5 weeks ago
There is no middle class. There are only working class and wealth class. Just because you are high earner in an office job doesn’t mean you’re not working class.
Korhaka@sopuli.xyz 5 weeks ago
Where is the line though? Many people that could be considered middle class are realistically rich enough to never have to work again if they didn’t want to. But they want their flash cars and private school for the kids so they do need to work to keep that level of luxury. Even if they could still live comfortably without working.
If I was to start van living (hard as I can’t drive) and rented out my house I wouldn’t have to work another day in my life. Does that make me part of the wealth class, despite having always been at/close to minimum wage? Getting enough rent to pay for my mortgage and leave me with many hundreds extra would not be difficult. Go for a HMO and turn the living space into more bedrooms like a standard scumlord would possibly even leave me with over £1000 a month. The only work I would have to do is paint over some mould occasionally.
ThirdConsul@lemmy.ml 5 weeks ago
Where is the line though
The line is “do you need to work ever to maintain at least the current living standard”. That’s the division between working class and wealthy class.
If I was to start van living (hard as I can’t drive) and rented out my house I wouldn’t have to work another day in my life
Not maintaining at least current living standard.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I don’t know why everyone is avoiding the Marxist terms, as they are far more accurate than low/middle/upper or whatever people are talking about in this thread.
Those wealthy workers are petit-bourgeoisie. They own enough capital so that they no longer have to struggle in the rat race of capitalism, but not enough to be controlling entire industries or multibillion dollar companies like the bourgeoisie.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
pretty easy. if you had a million in the bank at 4% return you’d have a income of 40K a year. if you could live on that income you’d be all set and not have to work.
so scale that up a bit, say 5 million in the bank at 5% return, that would be an income of 250,000K a year.
InputZero@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Because middle class is used wrong in North America.
Poverty class is simple, you don’t have enough to live.
Labor class is divided into three;
Low labor, your barely paid enough to scrape by.
Middle labor, your paid enough for your work to live.
High labor, you’re paid well for your work. Perhaps you own your own small business.
Middle class, you aren’t paid a wage or salary anymore, you’re income comes from the things you own. As rich as a politician or nobility but not much political power.
Upper class, in old Europe this would be the nobels. Duke’s, Earls, Lords, that type of stuff. In modern north America this would be the ultra rich. You have political power and you own a lot of stuff. This is where most representatives are.
Politician class, former Royal class. You rule, extreme political power and wealth.
Most people in North America think they’re in the middle class when really they’re in the Labor middle class, it’s very different
SippyCup@lemmy.ml 5 weeks ago
Working class is everybody who must work to live.
Upper class is everybody else.
There is no such thing as a middle class, that is a lie. Everybody seems to think they’re in the middle class, because that puts somebody below them, and gives them a reason to continue working under wage slavery. This is the purpose of the lie.
squaresinger@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
The fun thing is that everyone thinks they are middle class. When I was making €45k a year I thought I was middle class because I had an university degree and a leadership position. At the same time my boss, who had just spent €5mio acquiring a 50% share in a second company and owned three houses (two of which he rented out) also considered himself middle class because he wasn’t a billionaire.
khaleer@sopuli.xyz 5 weeks ago
I once had a friend, which gf had to send him like 10Euro per month, for him to get monthly more than minimal wage which was considered “middle class” for some fucking reason in this country.
He was so emotional about this shit, that I am still not sure if he was for real about that or not…
DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 weeks ago
A better metric is homeownership to me. Someone who is middle class is secure and doesn’t have to rent nor pay debt. They only really have to work when it’s mutually beneficial. That is basically impossible to achieve in the modern world with the hundreds or thousands of micro taxes and cartel controlled corporate markets and complete lack of land for the lease it’s to live on without virtual indentured servitude. Even if you did spend your entire life buying a house the state would just take it away from your children with the brutal taxation. Without a home you are always going to be a slave and have to work at any shitty job just to have food and a roof over your head.
FlyingCircus@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
If you’re going to talk about class society, you might as well use the Marxist terms: proletariat, petit-bourgeoisie, and bourgeoise.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 5 weeks ago
Even well paid doctors are labor class mostly. Because even in the past doctors weren’t as well paid as today.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
most doctors come from wealthy families. and if you are anything above a PCP, you’re making like 300K+ a year, you’re not labor class. you’re part of the 1%
dubyakay@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
Were you really born in 1944?
stringere@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
how expensive it is to be poor
For anyone that needs the read, Terry Pratchett said it so well it is an economic theory now, the Boots theory.
The reason that the rich were so rich, Vimes reasoned, was because they managed to spend less money. Take boots, for example. … A really good pair of leather boots cost fifty dollars. But an affordable pair of boots, which were sort of OK for a season or two and then leaked like hell when the cardboard gave out, cost about ten dollars. … But the thing was that good boots lasted for years and years. A man who could afford fifty dollars had a pair of boots that’d still be keeping his feet dry in ten years’ time, while a poor man who could only afford cheap boots would have spent a hundred dollars on boots in the same time and would still have wet feet.
This was the Captain Samuel Vimes ‘Boots’ theory of socio-economic unfairness.[4]From Men at Arms by Sir Terry Pratchett
Also, a history of “people don’t want to work” bullshit going back to 1894: thunderdungeon.com/…/nobody-wants-to-work-anymore…
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 5 weeks ago
People don’t want to work and are lazy is a bullshit talking point even older than 1894.
The first ever modern self-help book ever published (literally called self-help) was made a man with a lifelong history of business and financial failure and yet also still believed that it was no legislation or social assistance, but personal ‘morals’ and ethics are what gets people out of poverty and into comfort.
It was bullshit then and bullshit now. It is such a dark realization that what causes so much quality of life increases is not productivity or technology but… legislation!
stringere@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
It is such a dark realization that what causes so much quality of life increases is not productivity or technology but legislation and policy.
And that’s how we got Prosperity Gospel: rich folk trying to justify their lazy asses hoarding wealth and complaining about the people who actually do the work wanting fair compensation for their time and effort.
Devial@discuss.online 5 weeks ago
In general it can be said that poor people to not have the capital to make upfront investments which become profitable over time. Not even just literal investing, but investing in things like a more fuel efficient car, upgrading the insulation in your house/apartment to save on eating, buying non-perishables in bulk when there’s a good deal, buying a dish washer instead of hand washing…
So many things that let you save tons of money in the long run, require relatively large upfront investments, that poor people can’t afford. That’s a big reason why poverty can be such an insidious vicious loop, that can be extremely hard to escape from.
Two identical households, with identical income could have vastly different financial situations, just based on if their income was previously low, and they weren’t able to afford any of these investments, vs. If their income was previously high, having allowed them to previously make these large investments to reduce their long term monthly costs, and secure enough liquidity to be able to continue occasionally making these investments.
stringere@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
Thank you for the expansion.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
The rich are the lazy ones
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
the rich are a lot more paranoid than the middle/working class.
Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
Middle class IS below the poverty line.
The poverty line is a number made up by the wealthy to keep the “less poors” at odds with the “more poors” So that we don’t join forces and guillotine the motherfuckers.
oce@jlai.lu 5 weeks ago
There are conventional definitions of the poverty line. In France, it is defined by the national institute of statistics as:
The poverty threshold is conventionally set at 60% of the population’s median standard of living. It corresponds to a disposable income of €1,288 per month for a single person and €2,705 for a couple with two children under 14 years old. www.insee.fr/fr/statistiques/5759045
thingAmaBob@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Yeah, we do a lot of inner fighting and it is difficult to get through it. I even find myself getting frustrated at people, who earn twice as much as me, complaining about how they live paycheck to paycheck. The cost of living is not high here (and I save a lot myself), and I think about the wealth I could build if I had their income; basically I think, “why are you complaining??” But we have to remember we are on the same team. We are all ultimately getting screwed over by the owner class.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
a lot of people are just idiots who don’t understand that money in has to be less than money out.
Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
That guy earning twice as much as you is still far closer to you than to the guy above him. He may make twice the amount as you, but the guy above both of you makes literally 400 times as much (per day sometimes). It’s like you said, we’re all on the same team.
Treczoks@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
They also don’t understand that the impact of the “lazy poor” is exaggerated by the rich to turn your attention away from The Big Theft.
roofuskit@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
“Anyone who has ever struggled with poverty knows how extremely expensive it is to be poor.” - James Baldwin
No truer words.
Asafum@feddit.nl 5 weeks ago
cobalt32@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 weeks ago
That’s a good explanation of generational poverty and why it’s so expensive to be poor, but if Vimes is looking for the real reason the rich are so rich, he should read about surplus labor value. He seems to have ignored the broader class dynamics at play under capitalism.
Or maybe things are different on Discworld, I haven’t actually read the books.
Asafum@feddit.nl 5 weeks ago
Funny enough he ends up marrying into extreme wealth lol
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
plenty of rich people debt spend.
Zorque@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Yes, but they can afford to debt spend for better things they end up spending less for in the long run.
Did you actually read the quote, or are you just going off the biggest text?
radiouser@crazypeople.online 5 weeks ago
Yeah, I think people who say that don’t realize a few key things.
First, they don’t understand the ‘poverty tax’ - how not having money for things like a security deposit, reliable transportation, or bulk buying actually costs you more in the long run.
And second, they don’t see how thin the margin for error is for most middle-class families. One medical bill or job loss is all it takes to fall behind
Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Earn 3 times the amount of a proposed rent? You’re golden.
Earn below 3 times the amount of a proposed rent (but still enough to pay it each month)? Now you have to pay a guarantor to back you up. Last estimate I got was $800 for that service. You’ve gotta pay that before a landlord will accept you.
So if you earn less, you’re forced to pay more. It’s so fucking backwards.
Source: currently homeless, on numerous “waitlists” for low-income apartments that can take years to get through, housing lotteries that have 10s of thousands of people also hoping for a home, and attempting to scrounge the bottom of the barrel with tiny studio apartments (which, even if I apply to immediately, I’m behind others who somehow got to them faster.)
The system is absolutely fucked. I’m just grateful I enjoy my job (which, yes, I work full time, and earn above minimum wage for. Modern US society has no mercy for any of us.)
NatakuNox@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
There is no true definition of middle class. People making only $30k a month consider themselves middle class and people making $1 million also think they are middle class.
GuyLivingHere@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
There is no ‘middle’ class. There is only ownership and labour.
Taldan@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I would argue there are at least 3 classes:
-
The impoverished class that makes their living from the charity of others
-
The working class that makes their living from their labor
-
The ownership class that makes their living from owning things
-
L7HM77@sh.itjust.works 5 weeks ago
If we guesstimate middle class by comparable lifestyle when the term was coined, it starts around 250k in today money. Comfortable house, lots of kids, multiple cars (but not luxury), at least one real traveling vacation every year, never worrying about paying bills or buying food, all while saving enough to retire by 55. There aren’t many people in the US with the income to match that. I’d say the middle class is dead.
khepri@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
There’s the Working class, who can’t live in society without trading their time for money in some way, or being given charity. And the Capital class, who can live in society without doing either.
Tlf@feddit.org 5 weeks ago
I will add this to my vocabulary as I find it captures the issue in an easy to understand way.
ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one 5 weeks ago
Screwing the poor is a time honored tradition in capitalism.
From Cracked’s article, 5 Cruel Ways Being Poor Is Expensive
- Household Goods Like Toilet Paper Cost More For Poor People
- The IRS Audits Poor People More Frequently Than Rich People
- Poor People Have To Pay Extra To Access Money They’ve Already Earned
- "New Customer Fees" Are Thinly Disguised Penalties For Being Poor
- Nutritional Inequality Goes Much Deeper Than Food Deserts
From another article, 5 Screwed-Up Ways The World’s Stacked Against Poor People
- "Period Poverty" Is A Very Real Problem
- "Transit Deserts" Keep People From Finding Work
- Low-Income Housing Is Leaving Residents With Massive Energy Bills
- Low-Income Neighborhoods Experience Longer Emergency Response Times
- Low-Income Families Are More Likely To Be Audited
Finally, Why We Can’t Stop Hating The Poor
- We Have Laws Designed To Make The Poor Look Like Assholes
- The Hate Comes From Some Unexpected Places
- Poor People Smell Bad
- The Poor Remind Us That Sometimes The System Is In Fact Bullshit
- We Have To Believe People Deserve What They Get
BanMe@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
It’s soooo much easier to be a class traitor when you don’t realize you’re part of that class
boaratio@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
It’s really hard to even decide what the working class is. I have a good job, good benefits, savings and retirement account, but if I lost my job we’d be homeless in 6 months.
WALLACE@feddit.uk 5 weeks ago
I’d take that as working class personally. You could be earning 500K per year but if you still need to sell your time and energy to pay the bills then you’re not middle class yet.
I_Fart_Glitter@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Maybe there is one of the lucky 10,000 here who has not heard of boots theory.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
That used to be true, pre-1980’s, when the middle class was way, way bigger than it is today.
Goodlucksil@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
Rimjobsteve moment
brendansimms@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Let the Leftist infighting commence!
lechekaflan@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
‘the rich get richer, the lazy live for free, and the middle class pays for it all’
This is what the country subreddit I abandoned more than a year ago became this fucking mentality. Like they’re toying with the idea of eugenics and limited voting rights.
cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 weeks ago
As I’ve always said, the greatest trick the idle wealthy class ever pulled was convincing the middle class that the working class is the enemy.
Tedesche@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Username tracks.
Today@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I say all the time how expensive it is to be poor now!! You kinda need a phone; you might find a cheap car but the insurance will be $$; i can barely leave my house without getting on a toll road; you might find a cheap apartment but the rent will include $200 in fees. Every interaction is designed to be profitable for someone and we’re losing.
Cyberflunk@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Statistically, middle class is not close to poverty, the issue is, there’s no more middle class
Proprietary_Blend@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Who says that?
Rhaedas@fedia.io 5 weeks ago
There is comfortable, wealthy, and the super rich. The first ones still look at money as the rest of the population, while the ultra wealthy (the top .1% or higher) use their assets for power. They don't have to concern themselves almost all of the time on price tags for things, it's irrelevant. It's what their influence can allow them to do that is far more important. So yes, the richest live an expensive lifestyle, but they don't care.
I agree with others on the middle class falsehood. You either have enough assets and income to be able to live well, or you don't. At this point many millionaires are not that well off either because their expenses put them in the same situation the poorer people have to deal with. Maybe it's not only one paycheck away from disaster, but they have their own buffer zone that's not as large as they'd like in bad times. Likewise, there are "poor" people who manage their budgets well enough that they are comfortable, but because they don't have a lot they are at the mercy of things around them so that can disappear quickly.
The rich line is where you can lose entire businesses or a house or other large material thing and the money part doesn't phase you.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
I have never heard that saying before.
owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
There’s never been a middle class. The illusion of the “lazy poor” is fabricated by the wealth class to divide the working class.
DagwoodIII@piefed.social 5 weeks ago
Yes there was.
In 1960 the US minimum wage was $1.00/hour and the average house was $11,000.00.
Two kids could get married on high school graduation day and be self supporting homeowners by the time they turned 25.
Of course in those days, the rich were content with a mere $1 million…
EightBitBlood@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
You are correct! And it’s crazy how effective those high corporate tax rates were at distributing wealth to better society and create a healthy middleclass of consumers to fuel an economy and prevent it from collapsing.
Weird how everything’s turning to shit now that corporations don’t pay taxes and use all their earnings to influence government elections instead of needing to actually be accountable to them.
“Too big to fail” was actually just “too big to stop.” So now where there used to be a US government, there is a handful of billionaire cultists.
The middleclass 100% existed. Billionaires just stole it. The money that drove US spending across 3 decades is now all in 5 people’s bank accounts doing jack shit to help anyone but those 5 people.
Higher corporate taxes = a middle class. See most Nordic countries as a great example that still exists.
Thank you for making this point. A middle class is the sign of a functioning society.
Triumph@fedia.io 5 weeks ago
It is worth noting that:
The top income tax bracket in 2025 is 37%, for income earned over $751,600 (~$69,000 in 1960, married filing jointly).
In 1960, >$20,000 and <$24,000 was 38% (married filing jointly). (~$219,000 to ~$263,000 in 2025 dollars). The top tax bracket then was 91%, with all sorts of steps between 38% and 91%.
owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
You’re right, but that’s not middle class–that’s working class. Making minimum wage and having a comfortable life is working class. The concept of “middle” class was a method of pitting one half of the working class against the other, so the rich could move from millions to billions.
ch00f@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Was going to bring up interest rates, but apparently a 30 year mortgage in 1960 was something like 7%. Which…isn’t that bad.
Perspectivist@feddit.uk 5 weeks ago
Adjusted for inflation, 11k in the 60s is equivalent to 120k today. You can get a house for that money. Not a big house, but houses weren’t that big back then either.
shalafi@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
It’s not fabricated, these people honestly think one can live the “welfare queen” lifestyle. Reagan said the words and it resonated with the Republicans, Fox News ran with it. But really, this isn’t some master plan. Unless you’ve been through it or tried getting welfare, you can’t know how hard it is and how little you get. I’ve talked to many people like this.
You have to earn below 130% of the poverty line to get food stamps. More you make, less you get. I will say that when I first moved here I was getting a ridiculous amount for a single guy, and they just kept sending it, no questions asked for 6-months. Those days are long gone.
God knows what you have to do to get an actual check, but you have to be worse off than merely needing food stamps. And those checks are paltry. Unless you’re renting a room in someone’s house, you’re not making rent.
Unemployment is a fucking joke. In Florida, employers have to pay $7,200 when you first start, and they have 6 months to get it all paid into the unemployment fund. I would have got a MAX of $4,200, then it’s over. That was less than a month’s pay from my last job.
These is a gauntlet to be run to get a single penny. And you have to keep running that gauntlet, over and over again. I could go on and on, but I figured out 3 decades back that it’s easier, less time consuming, and more profitable, to work a shit job 40-hours a week.
owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca 5 weeks ago
This is a recurring theme in American politics in all sorts of areas.
I’m Canadian-born, and went through the process of a TN1 status, to a green card, to citizenship. There is an astounding amount of ignorance around how that works.
For example, the vast majority of Americans thought I would be granted citizenship when I married an American. Nope! The only advantage marriage gives is that you get to skip the green card lottery.
But the process still takes months, dozens of forms, and several thousand dollars (and I did the paperwork myself–those not fluent in English or not as confident in the paperwork will end up paying over $10,000 easily). And citizenship takes years and even more paperwork. People who think immigrants are just coasting along enjoying the easy life need to turn off Fox News and get out and talk to people.
DomeGuy@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
The rich 1% are the middle class. America discarded the hereditary upper class when we banned titles of nobility.
In our free society there are only two classes : those with enough money that they never have to work again, and those without.
TubularTittyFrog@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago