Submitted 5 months ago by cyrano@piefed.social to technology@lemmy.world
https://twitter.com/StephenGutowski/status/1977055831720862101
cross-posted from: https://lemmy.bestiver.se/post/671229
I would like to have a car model #3 please.
Would you like an extra computer with it? It comes as a “Special Combo”?
No thank you, only the car, to go please.
But sir, it’s included in the price…
No thanks, just the car.
Probably in 2025, we at Meta, as well as the other companies that are basically working on this, are going to have an AI that can effectively be a sort of midlevel engineer that you have at your company that can write code.
~ Mark Zuckerberg, Jan 2025
The 4xe are trash anyways. Hanging in to my 17 till it don’t run anymore.
So like, next week?
The first gen 3.6 has enough issues, have u seen how the new gen 3.6 is gobbling up intake cams? Ugh they stopped making real jeeps when the 4.0 went the wayside …
They stopped making real jeeps when they became a fashion statement instead of a specialized utility vehicle, which was decades ago at this point
How does this even happen ??
“Every company has a test environment. Some companies have production environments.”
I enjoy having a vehicle that doesn’t run on a computer
What’s are u driving an old mechanical diesel?
it’s a giant carburetor with wheels attached to it
Unless your computer is from the 70s, it has a computer.
That said, “always connected, getting firmware updates” is a new thing.
yes i mean completely without a computer. no fuel injection
TIL computers from the 1970s aren’t made of computer /s
Stellantis did it
First one to build the unconnected EV where the purchaser has admin rights (and no one else), wins the race.
Unfortunately, this model is probably already deemed illegal. Regulatory capture is a beautiful thing 👀😬🙊
Is 2025 the year of the Linux car?!?! The answer may shock you!
You do realize that like 95% of the planet doesn’t want something like that. They just want something they can get in go that works and that if it breaks down somebody else can fix. Most people don’t care about connected or not connected. In fact most people actually want to be connected.
They might not want that up front, but an Internet-disconnected car that gives the owner full control doesn’t imply that it would be unreliable or hard to fix.
I’d even be ok with a connected-by-default car, as long as I have the option to disconnect it and do what I want with it, like any other computer I own. I don’t think that’s too much to ask, and I feel like it makes both audiences happy.
That’s a horrible idea for so many scenarios. Maintenance, repairs, accidents, sales, accidental death… Yeah, no.
Can you elaborate the regulatory part? Is it required by law to have them always connected to force push updates?
They’re a .ml idiot. Block and move on.
I just want a mechanical safety backup for the brakes, even non-EV new cars don’t have that :(
Did toyota get rid of their hand e-brake? I thought they were one of the few left that still had a manual e-brake.
Flintstone feet breaker floor box
Admin right on the automotive parts seems like asking for trouble by default. While I’m very much in favor of owning and controlling all my devices, cars feels like weapons we put in the hand of the general public because they’re deemed safe under regulations, so… yeah.
However, an EV with a separate automotive computer that only do car stuff under strict control, connected to another one that do management, UI, entertainment, etc. that’s more open, I could see that. As long as the proprietary one have decent changelogs (that you’d have to trust, sadly) and can be updated at will with a decent UX instead of “your car’s dead this morning lol”. That sound like a viable compromise.
if i cant use sudo on my own device, then its not my device!
Any bad thing the user wants to do with the car can already be done by the person with the keys. Allowing the user more control could prevent someone including a terrorist or enemy state from doing something bad to millions of people like virtually cutting everyone’s brakes at once.
I only agree if that separation means the vehicle cannot be remotely disabled by the manufacturer; on purpose or by accident.
I have a used 2017 Chevy Bolt that I absolutely adore. I bet I could pretty easily disable the OnStar if I was so inclined and paranoid about it somehow getting updates. But I doubt I need to do that.
Probably as easy as pulling the fuse for the cellular card. That’s the case for a lot of these connected cars
First one to build the unconnected EV where the purchaser has admin rights (and no one else), wins the race.
Here in the United States you can already build new or convert existing gasoline vehicles to be “unconnected” and in every way except possibly the battery management doing it with an EV would actually be easier.
It does cost money and take some time but probably less of both than you may think.
Yeah I saw a guy convert an old Toyota pickup into an EV and it cost about $18,000 IIRC. Biggest expense is obviously the batteries, followed by motor and charging system. Madman kept the original 5 speed which I absolutely respect.
Surely there’s a better source you could have linked to than Twitter.
Brain Krebs on Mastodon:
Protip: this is a crosspost, OP “linked” to another post on lemmy
They still could have made their own post with a proper article as the post URL rather than directing additional traffic to a right-wing social media platform.
I don’t get it? Why can’t car companies just release software updates that get deployed with the regular service interval, like once every year or two? That way the repair service or dealership will be close by if problems arise.
No, I would hate being forced to bring my car in somewhere for updates. Maybe a notification that there is going to be an update, and an option to snooze it until convenient.
but they need to show the shareholders that they can also have the “move fast and break things” style of updates like tesla that pushes ota updates automatically without user consent
Better yet, why don’t they just write the shit competently and correctly the first time?
And don’t tell me it’s too hard; that’s the way real software engineering used to be done when stuff shipped on physical media and couldn’t be patched, and still is done for stuff that actually matters (avionics, etc.). They just want to pretend PC-level half-assery is acceptable because it’s cheaper.
They can, but the point of OTA setups is that you don’t have to anymore, and you save a lot that way because satiate testing is very very expensive. Old PC platforms had a standard of compatibility in how all the hardware worked. So you could test a few variations, and be reasonably assured, or you had a specific version for a particular price of hardware, like c&c machines.
So the new paradigm is about testing your most common setup, then slow rolling out and waiting for complaints. If you broke something, you get the details, fix it, and ship again. The problem here is their release cycle takes too long. This is only viable if you can patch things in a day, if it takes you a month to fix a patch that is turning cars into driveway statues, it more than a handful of cars are affected, you need a new strategy.
The kind of quality assurance you’re talking about is astronomically expensive. Software has gotten a lot more complex over the past couple decades. And just because it came on physical media and could not easily be patched doesn’t mean that it didn’t have bugs. Far from it.
The penalty of doing it wrong needs to be higher than the cost of doing jt right.
All I want is a car with modern engineering and simple technology. I’m fine with crank windows and a radio I can easily swap out. But I would like an engine that gets more than 7MPG and has crumple-zones that aren’t my face. I don’t need touchscreens and sensors for everything. And I sure as fuck don’t want the manufacturer pushing out “updates” that can brick my car.
It would be amazing if there were a more open source option.
It’s unfortunate that cars are so big and complex to manufacture. With a just as complex a set of regulatory systems around verifying their safety and roadworthiness. I really don’t see something more open source being a realistic expectation at any foreseeable point going forward.
I was thinking the opposite it is amazing that we allow car manufacturers to have closed source vehicles at all when such huge amounts life and property are at stake. Every part of the designs should be inspectable by anyone.
I suspect it now costs more to engineer and produce a window crank handle that will last the life of the car, than it does to stick a motor, switch, and couple wires in there. It’s also much more expensive to offer electric windows later then, because it will require a different window regulator, and now you’re producing and stock more part numbers.
Ineos Grenadier is close…still waiting on the aftermarket to come up with reprogramming tools
Ineos Grenadier
That is 86K. What the fuck. Everything I own is not worth 86k.
My 2001 Tacoma get like 24 mpg I think, been awhile since I did the math. Anyways it does all you said, got a tape player crank windows, and a bench controlled by 2 springs and 2 levers.
This doesn’t satisfy the “crumple zone that is not my face” requirement.
Worst thing is they are collecting info on what people do in the car. Here is an article on Nissan monitoring sexual activity inside car.
Article is clickbait trash. This was something found in the privacy policy. Your Nissan doesn’t have a “sex sensor” that phones home if you whip it out in the passenger seat.
And thats just the beginning:
I almost did something like this for my 1995 Exploder. Y’know how you can buy a crate engine and then *simply drop in a new engine? There are some companies that make electric motors that interface with your transmission and now you have an old vehicle with a new motor!
Before I could make any major decisions like that, though, one of my neighbor’s told me that his friend had been looking for that exact same year and color Explorer after she lost her car in a flood, so I gave it to her. I never really got too far in my research, so I don’t know much about the real cost and extent of work involved in these electric crate engines.
You can’t just throw a crate engine in. My current car (2012 Hyundai Tucson) is a “California engine”. My family is in auto, and we went to a guy who replaced the engines on my uncle’s fleet. $6500 because the engine itself was so hard to source and replace with all the bullshit sensor, and an extra $1k for the rental I needed for 2 weeks while they tracked one down.
You and me both.
Where are the shops retrofitting decent cars with electric engines? Gimme that EV 911 from 1988. . . for . . . 11 thousand? Okay fifteen.
They exist, but hard to find. Most people doing this are hobbyists doing the conversion for their own fun. They might help you with your project but for liability reasons they are just helping.
My manual transmission Subaru Impreza has Android Auto and a Reverse Camera. That’s the most advanced part of the car. It’s a dinosaur otherwise, with a transmission and drivetrain that debuted in 1999 and an engine that’s rough but reliable. The instrument cluster has two gauges - speed and RPM. The rest are on a calculator LCD that displays numbers for fuel and miles travelled, and a billion different danger lights that tell you if there’s a problem somewhere. It also has electric windows and door locks. And cruise.
The problems the car has as it gets older are none of the electrical bits - they all work fine. It’s the rear wheel bearings, suspension bushings, and center differential that wear out over time. Ironically, the most basic, mechanical parts.
Back camera, cruise control, no radio (data, fm, or am), no stupid fucking touchscreen interface, a dedicated phone holder, and I’m happy. My phone has plenty of sounds to play while I drive and I’ve literally never needed anything a car touchscreen has offered.
While I tend to agree with most people here, simpler is better and fuck touchscreens in cars, but I do prefer to have a functioning AM/FM radio. It doesn’t have to be anything fancy, hell it doesn’t even need USB/MP3/CD player or anything else, but living in a hurricane prone area, I like to be able to get emergency news reports even in the event the cell towers go out.
Katrina was no fun yo, especially when we found out the hard way that a chunk of the eastbound Interstate 10 bridge had collapsed. We sure could have used a working radio to find stuff like that out…
I had to buy a 2008 car to get these things you listed
I’m curious to see if there will be simpler electric cars in the future. Like the bare minimum electric circuit to make the car go forward. I could see a DIY kit for something like that. But the security standards these days ask for way more sensors and cameras to reduce risks of accidents wich is fair tbh.
I picture an electric car with almost no dashboard at all. Just one dial for speed and another for remaining charge along with your odometer if you feel you must have that info. Maybe estimated mileage, but even that’s just spare info to someone who’s used to a classic fuel gauge.
In a car, the interior should fall away and the car should become an extension of the driver. Only by feeling the need to preserve the car do you drive with the necessary attention to protect yourself.
People seem to treat cars like roaming living rooms instead of the farm equipment they really are.
Keep an eye on Slate. Hope they do well
My 2014 Kia Rio has crank windows, no cruise control, 6-spd manual trans. No touchscreens–only buttons.
Car is very slow (1.6L non-turbo) but gets ~36mpg average. I’ve gotten as much as 40 when actually driving for mpg.
Doubt.
Gladaed@feddit.org 5 months ago
Misleading if not fake. This seems like it can be fixed via software, instead of requiring you to get a new car.
A7thStone@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I’m sure that’s very comforting to the people who just wanted to get in their car and go to work.
Buffalox@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Bricked usually means beyond repair. The device is worth the same as a brick, as it is worthless exactly because it can’t be repaired.
HubertManne@piefed.social 5 months ago
imagine trying to figure out why it won’t start. check the battery. maybe its the alternator???