Submitted 6 months ago by FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
We have so many houses going unused. We have food and resources for everybody, but we’ve set up a system that arbitrarily concentrates most of it on a few people! Young children, with no understanding why society is this way, are suffering and dying because they live in a world that collectively agrees to let this happen unnecessarily
Fuck, I’m stoned
To put in the words of someone I truly hate, someone I deeply despise, someone who used to be part of my friends discord group but is thankfully gone now:
“You can’t have winners without there being losers”.
This. This is how such people see the world, and in their eyes, perfectly justify inequality.
Probably throw in a bit of “just world” delusion in the mix, to make things worse.
Every year capitalists kill 10 million people by withholding food, medicine, and clean water. All because it isn’t profitable to them personally.
10 million in the usa? or where?
Those are the worldwide numbers for starvation and preventable disease, roughly.
Just FYI this is a tankie account.
This. This is the reality and the root cause of a lot of the issues regarding homelessness, starvation and preventable illness in the world.
Aggressive capitalists value money more than anyone’s, and everyone’s life.
They will let you die to bump their profits a fraction of a percent.
The less organized and fragmented the populous, the easier it is for the rich to take advantage of us.
The world is how it is until it doesn’t matter. Suffering is only temporary. Enjoy the time that you have. Can’t take anything with you.
Take anything with you where? Dead is dead, and there’s nothing after.
My point, exactly. No point in hoarding.
Then explain the tombs of Egyptian Pharoahs?
They thought you could take it with you. But they were wrong
Reality is rather complicated
It’s because guaranteeing positive rights requires cooperation or coercion. And it turns out we’re not great at cooperation.
It turns out capitalism actively disincentives cooperation. Cooperation is how humanity became the dominant life form. We’re fucking great at it when we don’t have a bunch of leeches siphoning off our surplus value and using that wealth to turn us against each other.
At a small scale, sure. When you reach the size of a country, not so much.
It also requires empathy over group belonging
The concentration isn’t arbitrary.
I can tell you right now why nothing happens. Because those of us who have housing and a solid life are terrified it will be taken away if others are given what they worked for (I realize this to be false, however it’s a very common sentiment among 30-40 year olds who own homes or property of any kind).
So, they keep voting for farther and farther right politicians because the left wants to “take your guns, land, and make you live under communism!” This is a non-exaggerated thought process of how a lot of people think.
Fuck that i only have a house so i don’t have to pay someone else’s mortgage.
I bought it the wrong time. I had a house and paid for 15 years lost $200,000 in the sale.
I would have actually done quite well to rent instead.
Reagan pretty much shut down progressivism in the eighties and its only in the new millenium we have seen it come back to a level it could be implemented again. We would be in much better shape if we did not have reaganomics that looked better than it was due to the energy crises no longer being a thing.
There’s a reason they call it the tragedy of the commons.
Necer seen Wikipedia article shill capitalist propaganda this hard...
Jfc
The paper this article talks about was authored by an evolutionary biologist that wanted to talk about environmental science problems and social responsibility. Ignoring the concepts of personal property and ownership and stuff, think about this for a minute. 81% of Americans own a yard, but how many of them do you see growing crops in that space? How much more effectively COULD that land be utilized towards the common good if it were managed in some way? Or from the other side: the Alaskan government had to step in and put a halt on Bering Sea crab harvests for a few years because the numbers were critically low. Do you think all of the individual fishermen who are reliant on that income would have voluntarily stopped? Would they even have known the crab population was dwindling?
I can see thinking the tragedy of the commons is capitalist propaganda if you think there is a hard line between people and corporations.
The North Sea fishing industry didn’t collapse because too many of the proletariat wanted to do a lot of fishing, it collapsed because thousands of people organized into dozens of groups that systematically overstrained the ecosystem. Because those groups wanted to make more profit for a small group of hundreds of people. Everyone involved was acting in their rational best interest with no oversight or regulation guarding the big picture view and it caused everyone involved to destroy their livelihoods. Other than the ones at the top who’s livelihood is/was consolidating profit of course.
The tragedy of the commons isn’t about how it’s an individual’s fault or responsibility. It’s about how larger groups need disinterested guardrails for long term higher quality of life.
The fuck you on about?
The Wikipedia article starts with two paragraphs accurately defining the term, then in the third paragraph above the drop-downs mentions the criticisms. Then two drop-down sections, Solutions and Criticisms, are almost entirely given over to all the ways various people have rufuted this.
What do you want, a big flashing red banner at the top that says “This Concept is Bullshit”? I don’t think you understand how Wikipedia works.
Yes this is the world. It fucked and we hope to change it. Even thought you were stoned it makes sense. Feel and house people
I’d prefer to feed them but I’m sure we can find volunteers to feel them too.
A quick look at the Wikipedia article The world’s billionaires will reveal that billionaires have an estimated aggregate net worth of 16 trillion. That’s more than 2,000 dollars for every single human being on this planet. Maybe not as individuals, but as a collective, they literally have the possibility of ending world hunger. And that’s only the richest three thousand or so.
Not my line- but you can have billionaires or you can have democracy.
If the world taxed them all only half their wealth (keeping them billionaires) and took the results and invested it in a trust, it could be generating 80 billion a year from only a 1% return. That’s enough to solve world hunger every year twice.
The world doesn’t have a resource problem. It has a billionaire problem.
I recommend a good read: Poverty, by America - Matthew Desmond – Princeton (2023)
~~We imagine that their sufferings are one thing and our life another. – Leo Tolstoy
The passage of Proposition 13 inspired a nationwide revolt that led to Reagan’s 1981 cutting spree. It was a white-led revolt. Only 2 groups opposed Proposition 13: public sector employees and African Americans. Massive tax cuts fundamentally reshaped the agendas of the nation’s 2 major political parties and resulted in the rise of private fortunes alongside public poverty. This was a response to white people being ordered to share public goods with Black people.
~~
#How to fix?
In the USA: ~~> We just have to stop spending so much on the rich. Support policies that disrupt poverty, not accommodate it. In 2020, the gap separately everyone in America below the poverty line and the poverty line itself amounted to $177 billion. That’s less that 1% of our GDP.
I’m calling for the rich to pay their taxes. Rebalance our social net. Return to a time when America made bigger investments in the general welfare.
“We need to ask if our consciousness and imagination have been so assaulted and coopted that we have been robbed of the courage or power to think an alternative thought.” - theologian Walter Bruggemann
Make sure all women have access to the best contraception and healthcare, and more pregnancies become intentional and safer. Provide new mothers with paid parental leave and free childcare. A country as wealthy as ours could put our money where our mouth is and support life. But from the poor, we just seem to take and take.~~
~~Let’s choose businesses that are doing right by their workers and the planet.
Doing the right thing is often highly inconvenient, time-consuming, even costly. That’s the price for our restored humanity.
Prosperity without poverty carries a different feeling. We’d be more free. A nation invested in ending poverty is a nation that is truly committed to freedom. ~~
The worst part is: the wealthiest few of them could each, individually, if they wanted to, end world hunger permanently with their current wealth. Estimates I’ve read range $40b per year or something like $250-300b just once to set up sustainable long-term solutions globally.
Musk, Zuckerberg, or Bezos could end hunger globally and permanently. Any one of them, individually, could do it. If the richest 10 billionaires all pitched in a portion, they’d all recoup everything they spent within a couple years at worst. If the richest 100 did, many of them wouldn’t even notice the expenditure.
But it would only take 1 of them.
Rich want to be richer. Isn’t that a good enough reason?
Fuckin’ socialists, putting the right of poor children to go to school above the right of billionaires to buy another mega yacht.
But a lot of dumb reasons!
the second step is realizing it isn’t going to change, at least not any time soon
No, I will never have this attitude. I refuse to believe that we couldn’t at any moment choose to change our course. The rich and powerful fear it. Believing things won’t change, sooner or later, only benefits them and not us. There is no magical right time for change, there’s only now.
All this effort of divide and conquer, trying to keep people in a state of fear and panic, etc. kinda shows what they are afraid of.
Look at game theory. We have 300m+ Americans operating primarily out of their own self-protection. They’re lied to about what that means. They are divided beyond repair.
3% of the US population protested in July, that wasn’t enough. What would be enough for a revolution you think? How would that go?
Look at history
I can believe it. Everyone in every country is sick and tired of the rich monkeys in charge. It’s a coordination problem, nothing more nothing less.
I’ve got a reason for you: it’s profitable for there to be some scarcity.
Everyone else already mentioned this… Methinks the fundamental issue is wealth distribution, so yes it is capitalism. I would say it is a “good” reason as it is a major target for sociology research and politicians, and there are active efforts in some countries to reduce inequality so…
I think I was radicated by this back in second year of college… Professor mentioned something like “The US Midwest has enough production capacity to feed the entire world” when a lot of the crops went to beef production, sweeteners, or just waste
This has been an issue for a while and I think Cory Doctorow mentioned it in one of his blog posts? About the Luddites; they were not anti-technology, but saw how the productivity increases would only benefit the rich and wealthy. I suspect the current AI issue is the same, “robots replacing your job” will be a lot more positive if the replaced worker still makes the same amount via basic income/stipend by the government instead of the money being concentrated into OpenAI or Meta or somewhere
… I’ve wanted to talk about these for a while
For those reasons I believe ai will be a net negative for all humanity in a capitalist system. It serves to further enrich billionaires and create a police state for the rest of us.
Now if it wasn’t this way, you could use ai as a tool to potentially do good (im still not a fan of it) but we know this will never happen. So id advise anyone to boycott any ai shit that keeps getting shoved into our faces. I will deny it until I have to go live in a shack in the woods to do so.
Don’t worry, we make up for it by having plenty of bad reasons to keep homelessness and poverty from being solved.
The dark secret about money is that it only works when there have enough for everyone. An indigent population is built in to capitalism. If you gave everyone $1,000,000 the value of a million dollars willing crash. If everyone owned a house real estate values would plummet.
Absolutely. Most people being low on money is essential to making the system work.
Otherwise, no one would take terrible low-paying jobs that pay for billionaires’ lavish lifestyles.
And so is the real estate market. Any excess of money you get sinks into having a place to live. Once population overall earns more, housing prices skyrocket. It’s an ingenious trap to keep us eternally broke and powerless, while feeding the rich.
There’s no market-based solution for this. We need a serious intervention. As long as we don’t put the working majority first, unsurprisingly, the world is gonna suck.
If everyone owned a house real estate values would plummet.
If e.g. macroeconomics are working against human interest, they can fuck off. Real estate shouldn’t be something speculative and dominated by forces such as private equity and landlords.
Housing and property are a right and it would serve us to act like it.
If you gave everyone $1,000,000 the value of a million dollars willing crash.
If you gave everybody a million to be used to better their lives, their community, and society at large - let the value of the dollar crash in the lens of the old ways.
Incentivizing positive action is beneficial for everyone, as long as we don’t build a house of cards and we consider those around us. Incentivizing wealth hoarding, ruthlessness, and the consolidation of power is only beneficial for those at the top of the food chain and creates vast, untold amounts of suffering.
The dark secret about money is that it only works when there have enough for everyone.
Money is a distortion of value. And you don’t need to be valuable to the most greedy of us to deserve to live and be provided what you need to live.
Monopolization, market dominance, and stagnation has gotten us to where we are: individuals, communities, and societies of people powerless to affect society in any meaningful way, because of “the economy”, “the cost”, “the billionaires/job creators will leave” gasp D:
I think you two are actually on the same page, in that capitalism strives on inequality and dependence, and that we should push billionaires out of the system.
The original comment was not advocating for capitalism and the old ways, it was just saying that making us poor is essential to keep capitalism running, and it’s not a good thing.
In a way the guy before you is right: Some things would crash. For example, if everyone has a million, people wouldn’t be forced to do horrendous things for no pay. For example, nobody would work at a brothel, sell drugs or work as a modern slave picking fruit on a field. If people would do these jobs, they’d only do that for much, much more money.
But these things are things that only exist (at that price point) because enough people are currently desperate enough to be exploitable. In a somewhat just system, these kinds of exploitation shouldn’t be possible.
Actually, it’s because of capitalism. It’s not a good reason but it is the reason. Everybody knows that we throw away food every single day that could literally feed the whole planet twice over. Everyone knows that we can manage to put everyone under a roof. The billionares sure as hell know this but they want to keep the status quo because they know as long as nobody actually does anything about it, they’ll always be the 1% with everything—and so the rat race continues.
Depends on whether you see the primary function of houses as housing people, or as providing their owners with a competitive return on investment.
We can’t do both at once.
This is how it’s always been. Nothing new.
Wait until you hear the true story of the Irish Potato Famine and realize that not only did nobody learn from it, but most of the anglosphere seems to be towards a direct repeat of it at an even wider scale.
The potato blight was a secondary or proximal cause of the mass death and emigration. The primary cause was the system of absentee landlords (arguably an early form of corporatism), ineffective government and racism.
A punishment for undesireability.
When you’re too old, too uneducated, too unattractive, too disabled, too beligerent, or an obstacle to further extraction, you’re rendered homeless.
Homelessness is a socially acceptable method of eugenics. A homeless person has no right to property or personhood. They can be abused, imprisoned, and executed without excuse or much effort.
Homelessness is, at its heart, a form of social murder.
But part of what makes one homeless is bad luck. Generally, a person with a terrible personality who cannot behave appropriately will end up being an outcast…on the other hand they could end up being president
Trump was rewarded for regurgitating a philosophy of eugenics that a bunch of other Silicon Valley psychos believe in.
Homelessness is a dynamic issue that doesn’t just involve available housing and food. I worked with that population for four years and the causes are drug use, mental illness, escaping abuse, poverty lack of access to banking, mail, showers, secure storage… etc and etc.
I will blow your mind how not having somewhere to store crucial documents and having a secure mailbox can fuck you up.
I always get annoyed at people jump on all the justifications about how just handing someone a house isn’t enough to set these people’s lives right, and I’m like, “Right. ‘Cause the street will definitely help themselves get back on track. That lack of shelter is an attitude problem.”
The reason is greed, wealth facilitates the accumulation of more wealth.
Significant wealth needs to be taxed asap or the next generation will know nothing but perpetual poverty from birth until death.
So when are you planning to get your vasectomy?
“Poverty exists not because we cannot feed the poor, but because we cannot satisfy the rich,”
As an example of how stupid our global civilization is … Africa has more than enough wealth and natural resources to produce all the food and water it needs to feed its own people without any outside influence or control. Unfortunately, first world countries have such a stranglehold on African nations and governments that they are forever beholden to foreign aid and manipulation that they will never be able to pay off their debts … which means African will forever pay first world countries and never be capable of standing on their own.
Also, I’ve been sober from alcohol and drugs for close to 30 years now … and I’m perfectly aware of all this and think about this stuff all the time. We don’t need mind altering drugs to understand how stupid, greedy and corrupt our world is, has always been and will always be until we destroy ourselves and free this planet of our own stupidity.
You have to remember that most people, especially Americans, are brainwashed from birth to believe that the current order of the affairs is the best and only way to operate a society, and that anything else is, ahem, communism, which is the worst possible thing there is. For many, psychedelics has been the most impactful way for an individual to actually think outside the box on a visceral level since their conditioning since birth has been one of “this is the only way to think, so hop on board lest you be cast out of society.” It’s the entire reason why these substances are illegal, can’t have people thinking for themselves out of lockstep with the prescribed mentality.
youd think that but ik plenty of ppl that do psychs and still are republican/trump supporters, if anything they doubled down harder, it can go both ways
Pat_Riot@lemmy.today 6 months ago
There is a reason, well, at least two reasons. First is greed the second is the greedy ones also enjoy the cruelty.
axx@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
If not the cruelty they are often convinced (or have convinced themselves) that poverty is deserved, like their opulence is.
Just today there was a post on how most Americans believe poverty is the result of individual choices.