do you apologize, even if it's not your fault just to make the other person feel validated?

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨vestmoria@linux.community⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

or to keep the peace, maybe you think it’s not a big deal but your partner, friend, coworker, parent feels otherwise.

Do you apologize just to validate him?

I always though if I don’t feel bad about it, fuck it, I’m not apologizing, deal with it. It’s not my fault you’re so thin skinned. Grow up.

Now I’m thinking I should be more empathetic and apologize, just to make the aggravated person feel validated, even though I don’t feel bad (or that bad).

This gets more complicated because many times coworkers feel offended because I don’t share my personal life with them or I’m so concentrated on my job that I don’t notice them. Do I apologize for not noticing them?

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naught101@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Yes… Apologies aren’t about fault for me. They are about recognising other’s suffering, and possibly about acknowledging my contribution to that situation.

The apology isn’t about you, it’s about the other person, and showing you care about them.

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- spankmonkey@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  This upsets me and I demand an apology.
  
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  - naught101@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I get that this is a joke, but there’s a good point there too: I don’t give apologies because they were demanded, if give them because I can see that they’d help improve the situation.
    
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  - db2@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I’m upset that you’re upset.
    
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- Kalladblog@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I tend to disagree (to a degree, (lel)). An apology is also a sign of regret of a previous action imo.
  
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  - naught101@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Yeah, that’s always gotta be true to some extent… If not, then the apology is gonna be insincere anyway. But it doesn’t mean that the regret has to be massive for you for the apology to be valid or useful.
    
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- sopularity_fax@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  It can be problematic when there’s no established actual violation and you simply go along with whoever is doing the demanding…
  
  People who demand apologies are seldom the type who actually deserve apologies. Discernment is quite necessary here, if you apologize unduly, you are setting a pattern that helps establish the response they expect even when they act unreasonably or uncivilly.
  
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  - naught101@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Yeah, I’m definitely assuming good faith above. I’m lucky that I’m mostly surrounded by people for whom that assumption makes sense.
    
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Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
At work, I apologize all the time.

With real people I actually care about, I only apologize for specific things I’ve done wrong. That way they know I mean it.

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- jbrains@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I teach programmers to say “Oops” when they make a mistake, rather than apologize. It’s epidemic.
  
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- kelpie_returns@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Id never thought about this way before. I apologize all the time just to keep things moving quick and easy, but maybe I should learn to be a bit more discerning for the sake of trust? Definitely something to think about
  
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  - Prathas@lemmy.zip ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    It’s not even just trust but self-confidence. You may be giving off the impression that you can be walked on all over, and bullies may take advantage of that.
    
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  - Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    A key part is that you have to examine your own behavior with a critical eye.
    
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bunnyBoy@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
As someone who works with customers… yeah, it’s like 90% of my job

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scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
There’s an expression I am comfortable with and I wish more people could be.

NOT “I’m sorry you feel that way.”

Rather: “I’m sorry I made you feel that way.”

You can say this to someone without accepting blame for intending to hurt them or trying to hurt them. It’s just an acknowledgment that your actions had a consequence. Some people think that they have no responsibility for unintended consequences of their actions, and that only what they intended matters. Of course it’s important what they intended, and where they were coming from, but they can also accept that perhaps they didn’t think of everything or fully appreciate what their actions would do. We all make that mistake.

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corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Bump into a Canadian at an airport and you’ll hear them apologize.

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- MapleEngineer@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Am Canadian, can confirm.
  
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TwinTitans@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Sorry im Canadian. I don’t know what you mean. 😅

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- 60d@lemmy.ca ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I’m also Canadian, and don’t understand OP’s question. I’m sorry, buddy.
  
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Sunsofold@lemmings.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I tend to treat words fairly literally and try to be precise, so if I say ‘I’m sorry,’ it’s because I am sorry. If I want to sympathize, I can say other things. (‘That’s awful.’ ‘Those bastards…’ etc.) On occasions where I have not felt sorry because the other person has reacted emotionally to something , I tend to ask questions. Calmly giving people a chance to feel heard can often help.
In most cases, though, I try to move people toward solutions-oriented thinking to prevent spiralling. Asking questions lets them put the problem into words, helping them switch from a defensive emotional stance to an open brainstorming stance. Giving people a goal can make them feel a sense of progress, giving them distance from the problem and possibly netting a better final result than even might have happened without the inciting event.

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xePBMg9@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
If the other person needs it and it doesn’t inconvenience me in the long term, yes. Also depends how much I care for the person in question. I don’t do this to just anyone. They usually know if they were wrong and learn from it. They don’t need me to confront them while they are vulnerable.

Doesn’t mean my feelings can’t be hurt though.

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toomanypancakes@piefed.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I apologize constantly for everything, my fault or not. I'm very annoying.

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- Apeman42@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Yeah, I basically apologize for existing in the same space as other people.
  
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  - sopularity_fax@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Bad habit. How come they dont apologize equally to you?
    
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- sopularity_fax@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  What would happen if you just… didnt and just did your business
  
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  - toomanypancakes@piefed.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Almost certainly nothing bad, but I'm ashamed of existing
    
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laranis@lemmy.zip ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I will fake apologize if it helps get me what I want. Maybe that makes me a narcissist or disingenuous but so fucking what. It’s manipulation all the way down. Always has been. My “pride” is a small price to pay.

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Zomg@piefed.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I try to be aware that needlessly apologizing devalues my apologies. I don't have an issue saying it, but I refrain from doing so unless I actually mean it.

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celeste@kbin.earth ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
There are times when apologies are more of a social lubricant or a way to signal you aren't angry or hostile. Quickly apologizing for not hearing your coworker and asking them what they need might speed things along and get them away from you faster. You don't need to feel any real sympathy for them. In this situation, an apology is more like a rote phrase said to ease into conversation and allow the other person a few seconds to move from "get their attention" mode back to "thing i need to say to them" mode.

For personal information, the purpose of an apology is just to slightly gentle the blow of not answering the question. Useful for maintaining a neutral relationship with coworkers. If the question is reasonable but you don't want to answer (how was your vacation? do you like a particular musician?), you might consider tacking on an apology. If the question is out of line or inappropriate in that environment (are you gay? do you have a good relationship with your parents? what's your body count? why won't you give me $100?) a lack of apology gives them less opportunity to press.

Anyway, that's where I'm at with it, but I'm not known for being socially adroit. A real apology is longer and comes with recognition of harm done, etc. You're so sorry you spilled that coffee on their lap. You'll watch where you're going from now on. Do they need a first aid kit or some towels? The kind of day to day apology for not hearing someone is just a brief acknowledgement of them as a human so you can both get on with things.

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- sopularity_fax@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Thats sort of disingenuous and also inauthentic tho. Its really not helping anyone when you affirm non-existsnt grievances
  
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  - celeste@kbin.earth ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Is it a grievance or mild irritation? People constantly annoy each other over small things. If someone is genuinely deeply angry to the point where it's a grievance about the little things in the original post, that's a different matter.
    
    If "sorry" for small inconveniences feels wrong, other vocalizations can take their place and serve the same purpose. Like "whoops" for dropping something or "hello, what do you need? i have to get back to this pretty quickly, though" for getting pulled out of work by someone with a question.
    
    It doesn't feel fake to me because this is just how "sorry" is used in these contexts. "social lubricant to move on from minor inconveniences and acknowledge the other party's humanity" may not be in the dictionary, but it's how it's used over and over again, and that's what language is. Shared, agreed on meaning. Is this prone to huge amounts of error? yup! Communication sucks when you aren't naturally inclined to pick up non literal meanings for things.
    
    Normally, I'd tack on an apology here for rambling, or going on so long, just as an acknowledgement that my inability to say things consisely is an inconvenience to read for other people. That would make this a shorter paragraph, and hopefully make people more inclined to engage in their reply to me with good faith, since I've shown my awareness that what I typed could've been a slog for them to read.
    
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ctry21@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I did it so much in a retail job that the supervisor told me to stop saying sorry all the time and of course I immediately replied “sorry.” Being autistic and socially anxious will do that unfortunately. It’s taken time and I’ve gotten a bit better at not apologising for things that aren’t my fault, but it’s still an annoying habit.

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- Prathas@lemmy.zip ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  In your defense, that’s probably better than the other way around!
  
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chiruyuki@ani.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I like to apologise and do my best to keep the peace, but I have my own limits (that varies from person-to-person) and I’m not gonna make myself miserable just to keep the other person content if i csn help it

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FriendOfDeSoto@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
There is no simple answer to this. It’s like at least three factors interacting. How much empathy do you feel towards the other person? How close is your relationship on the scale of strangers bumping into each other on the street to best friends forever? How big an issue has any of this been objectively (or as close as you can get there)? So that’s three sliding scales to adjust to get an outcome. The closer a relationship is, the harder this can be because there is history and people (I’m including myself in this) can be very petty.

Just judging by the hints you dropped you should probably reconsider your approach to your coworkers. And I don’t mean you need to be submissively apologetic all the time and share everything from your private life, even your hemorrhoid problems, with the crew. You’ll probably make your life easier just on a human level plus improve odds of promotion if you do more of that, even if it feels more line cosplay to you. I share your “grow the eff up”/no bullshit stance but that only works in a group of like minded people.

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thefactremains@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
You don’t need to apologize to take ownership of your impact.

When partners acknowledge how their words and actions affect the other (regardless of intent) they make the relationship safer, more responsive, and more connected.

Ownership is acknowledging the effects of your behavior, not absorbing all blame or excusing harmful behavior from either partner.

It sounds like “When I did X, the impact on you was Y…here’s what I’ll do differently,” which lowers defensiveness and invites collaboration on solutions.

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- dustyData@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  It’s funny, because that is the exact apology formula that is taught by therapists. That is a proper apology. The word sorry is actually optional. Many people say they’re sorry but don’t actually apologize. Because they don’t acknowledge their own actions. An apology is an action, not mere words. Saying sorry without change in your actions might fulfill social norms but it is detrimental to all relationships and it makes you seem less trustworthy going forward.
  
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spankmonkey@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Only if I can come up with a way that the thing could possibly be my fault, intentional or not. Like making a decision without asking first, or because I reminded them of something upsetting without intending to like reminding them of something other than what we are talking about. The latter is going to be the ‘I’m sorry I upset you’ not a real apology, because I’m not really sorry for saying the thing, just that it caused them to be upset.

In the past I would apologize for things I didn’t do and all it did was make things worse because it was just a reflex response and it wasn’t like I could avoid doing things I didn’t do in the first place in the future.

At work I will apologize for things that may be due to not having enough information, but in that case at best I’m going to apologize for not finding out what I didn’t know. It is kind of bullshit, but at least they tend to provide more information in the future. It is catering to people who can’t admit their own faults to a degree, but ends up being like small talk, something we do to get other people to work as a team.

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