cross-posted from: programming.dev/post/36378173
Comments
- Hackernews.
I’d prefer an AMD 9000 series because I refuse to support Nvidia, but the upgradability is still an amazing achievement. I’m glad to see Framework delivering.
Framework unveils a second-generation Framework Laptop 16 with a swappable Nvidia RTX 5070 GPU, an industry first, shipping in November 2025
Submitted 2 weeks ago by Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world
https://frame.work/ro/en/blog/introducing-the-new-framework-laptop-16-with-nvidia
Comments
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
AlexisFR@jlai.lu 2 weeks ago
It could help if AMD still manufactured discrete mobile GPUs.
BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Their website still lists RX 7000M & S series, but I don’t know of a single laptop brand that currently offers them. There is certainly is no hint of a 9000 series mobile GPU, which is a shame. I probably won’t buy another laptop until AMD is back in the mobile GPU game. Not that they’re perfect, but they are significantly less evil than NVidia.
tempest@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Most people don’t need them. The gaming and workstation laptop market is smaller than ever. The integrated graphics has been “good enough” for a while now.
bassomitron@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Out of curiosity, why do you refuse to support Nvidia? AMD isn’t some saint, they’re a shitty corporation just like Nvidia. They got lucky when Jim Keller saved their asses with the Ryzen architecture in the mid-2010s. They haven’t really innovated a god damn thing since then and it shows.
amorpheus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
they’re a shitty corporation just like Nvidia
Neither of them are anyone’s friend, but claiming they’re the same level of nasty is a bit of a stretch.
domi@lemmy.secnd.me 2 weeks ago
Besides what was mentioned below, it’s not about making competitive products but about Nvidia being an absolute asshole since the 2000s and they got even worse ever since the crypto and AI craze started. AMD and Nvidia are both corporations but they are not even playing the same game when it comes to being anti-competitive.
There’s a reason why Wikipedia has a controversies section on Nvidia: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nvidia#Controversies
That list is far from exhaustive. There’s so much more about Nvidia that you should remember vividly if you were a PC gamer in the 2000s and 2010s with an AMD GPU, like:
- When they pushed developers to use an unecessary amount of tesselation because they knew tesselation performed worse on AMD
- When they pushed their Gameworks framework which heavily gimped AMD GPUs
- When they pushed their PhysX framework which automatically offloaded to CPU on AMD GPUs
- When they disabled their GPUs in their driver when they detected an AMD GPU is also present in the system
- When they were cheating in benchmarks by adding optimizations specific to those benchmarks
- When they shipped an incomplete Vulkan implementation but claimed they are compliant
Nvidia has been gimping gaming performance and visuals since forever for both AMD GPUs and even their own customers and we haven’t even gotten to DLSS and raytracing yet.
I refuse to buy anything Nvidia until they stop abusing their market position at every chance they get.
ElectroLisa@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Not OC but I don't want to deal with Nvidia's proprietary drivers. AMD cards "just work" on Linux
frezik@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Haven’t innovated? 3D chip stacking?
CPU companies generally don’t change their micro-architecture, especially when it works.
iopq@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s it, every other gaming laptop is finished. Even though I have the older CPU I can get the newest GPUs now. Nobody can claim that right now. No other company is doing this.
DacoTaco@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The other laptops arent finished yet. Framework is super expensive , even compares to other gaming laptops.
I think its worth it, but thats not the opinion of a lot of casual people.
And had i not gotten one via my job, i would not have gotten a framework 16 because of the pricewoelkchen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well, the idea is that you can upgrade components without replacing everything, so the initial cost is higher but the long term cost is lower.
That said, they took their time. The 1st generation is old now. The Radeon dGPU is probably weaker or on a similar level than the new Ryzen iGPU. There is no Radeon dGPU upgrade path other than “just use the old one”. They have a better upgrade cadence with the 13 inch model.
MITM0@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Now if only Framework did that with AMD & Intel GPUs, then we’d all be balling.
Also please make it available in the East
ilinamorato@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They’ve had AMD for a few years now. No Intel one, but they do sell empty GPU module shells, so maybe someone could cut down a desktop Intel card to fit in one?
kuhli@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I doubt you could, power and the pcoe connection would cause problems. The empty shells aren’t really empty, all the cooling for the systems in the GPU module, so the empty shell is necessary for cooling the cpu if you don’t have a GPU. It’s also smaller
Bluewing@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Now if I could only afford a Framework…
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If I could only afford any decent gaming laptop honestly.
Bluewing@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s getting harder and harder to afford high end computers. I have already decided my next new computer will be a mini desktop. They are noticeably cheaper, can be well spec’ed, and powerful with a small foot print.
BunScientist@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
now if only they sold them in my country…
any1th3r3@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
And still no OLED screen… why Framework, why?
I got one of the latest Framework 13 a couple months ago for work, and while I’m happy about the prospects of future repairability and upgradability down the line, it’s not a great laptop given its pricepoint.
The build is subpar, with the screen flexing a ton, the keyboard and trackpad are lacklustre and pretty uncomfortable, but the worst is the screen, it’s dim, with poor colour reproduction and 3:2 is frankly not for me. And fractional scaling is a mess with XWayland, while it was much better on my 2019 XPS 13.I love what Framework are pushing for and actually achieving, but tradeoffs are very much at play. I’m hoping for an OLED screen replacement in the near future though.
Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
The good thing: You will probably be able to swap it once they make it available.
YiddishMcSquidish@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
I really don’t see it happening considering you would likely just be replacing the whole chassis. I see an OLED in the future, just not a swappable one.
AlecSadler@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
I’ve yet to use an OLED monitor that didn’t make text look shitty and I’ve used $1000+ OLED displays with high ratings.
Don’t get me wrong, OLED colors and blacks are gorgeous. I love OLED.
Even my Samsung Pro whatever latest laptop with an OLED display…the text just looks off. Which was disappointing because my Samsung phone text is fine.
LG C2/3/4, also gross looking text.
Alienware OLED $750+ monitor? Text was bad.
I love OLED but I’ve yet to find one that works for productivity.
firebingo@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Almost all OLED displays use a different pixel layout than traditional LCD displays. And sub pixel font rendering is designed for the standard LCD layout. Depending on your OS you may be able to configure the font rendering to look better on most OLEDs. But some people are just more sensitive to this as a problem.
bassomitron@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Aren’t phone screens AMOLED? I’m definitely not an expert, but I thought it was a variation of OLED, which would explain why text looks better.
That being said, I also have an OLED Steam Deck and I can read text on it just fine if the scaling is set correctly in the game or just browsing the web normally in desktop mode.
any1th3r3@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Yep, text is definitely not handled well on most OLED monitors (or TVs) because of their pixel substructure. It’s usually been better on Linux for me and I essentially don’t notice it anymore, but I also haven’t used Windows in years so I can’t compare.
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Did you turn on PC-Mode with your LGs?
I use an LG nanocell TV as an pc monitor and the fonts didn’t look good until I set the HDMI input type to PC. And ofcourse you need to play around with the font rendering tools like ClearType in Windows.
AlexisFR@jlai.lu 2 weeks ago
OLED does not belong on a computer.
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So I’m going to be skeptical here. I had an older 9xx MSI laptop that was touted as replaceable and “upgradable” GPU for the next generation at the time.
That ended up as a big ol’ whoops, because replacement screwed with thermals and found that you couldn’t actually upgrade because of all kinds of reasons and resulted in a class action suit.
Just color me skeptical on these types of things.
BombOmOm@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Framework has been pretty consistent on upgradability. You can even put the newest MOBOs/CPUs in the oldest laptops since they kept the formfactor identical. They sell such mobos on their website.
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
GPUs a bit of a different monster sine there no such thing as a standard socket, you’re bound by the manufacturer spec for pin in/out.
And that was the case with MSI laptop and Nvidia partnership when Nvidia went full Darth Vader and changed the terms of the deal.
I mean more power to them if they can actually deliver actual modules that can be upgraded and if I can actually see a generation or two of this actually working, I’ll be on board but once bitten, can’t fool me again.
notthebees@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Since the cooling system is self contained in the module, you shouldn’t have that issue.
Cort@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The new GPU also has the same 100w tdp as the last one
silasmariner@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
FFS I was just about to buy myself one and now I’m obviously gonna have to wait until November
Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Just picked up my first Framework 13. Moves like this are why I’m increasingly trusting of their mission and vision.
Hopefully they stay private, or better yet, change their corporate charter into a cooperative. Never go public.
Gaja0@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
So what’s the hivemind consensus fellow lemmings, framework or thinkpad? My brain says lenovo but my heart says
3laws@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There is no Thinkpad as repairable as the framework and if they are (they’re not) the price is out of Reich for individuals since she p51 with LCAMM2 targets enterprise costumers.
Your brain is wrong on this one. Follow your heart
Emma_Gold_Man@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
Thinkpads are not what they once were. I finally gave up on them, moved over to a Framework, and haven’t regretted it.
kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Framework is more repairable but Thinkpads simply have superior build quality with less issues.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My experience with Framework is exactly one unit, but I would disagree with this. The Thinkpads I’ve used all felt more plastic-y and less sturdy than my Framework. The keyboard did feel cheaper until I wore the powdery feel off of the keycaps, at which point it felt amazing.
Lfrith@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
After getting a used thinkpad and being really surprised by the build quality and keyboard that’s the route I’ve decided to stick with over buying new laptops.
Yoshi@futurology.today 2 weeks ago
I’d say it depends on your needs and budget Framework has a higher build Quality and a bit loser prices but if this isn’t a Problem for you, go for it. Great repairability and replacebility is awesome!
ObsidianZed@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
*caresses screen*
some day…
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Still waaay too expensive :(
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I’d pay it if they had a few things I’m looking for:
- Trackpoint (Thinkpad nipple)
- physical mouse buttons, including middle mouse button
Basically, I want the ThinkPad keyboard on a Framework laptop.
FabledTurtle@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
There are people out there that just those nipples wow! I guess everyone has their preference, for me 120hz screen is a must.
raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My main problem with those prices is not even the value for money (albeit imo there is quite a disparity here), but the financial damage when lost/stolen. For private use, I just don’t want to carry any device around that is substantially more expensive than ~1000 EUR.
And the only thing that Framework has to offer me that no one else insise the EU has, is 15+ inches without a num block and with centered touchpad. The market share of laptops with num blocks (and accordingly off-center touchpads) is infuriatingly high and tells me 99.5% of people either have a tiny left hand or do no serious typing on the keyboard.
psoul@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
OK I’m a bit confused. I have a Framework 16” that I bought earlier this year, without the GPU extension bay. I don’t care that much about the expansion bay as without it, the laptop is already huge. I have an eGPU to play on when I need it.
What upgrade options does this announcement offer to me?
I’m dissatisfied with:
- the webcam
- screen colors / brightness
- key stability on the keyboard (the keys are a bit wobbly)
- speaker sound quality (I’m not expecting the best, but something better than what it shipped with)
They are announcing a new webcam, will it be backwards compatible ?
Otherwise I’m really happy with it, I absolutely love the modular I/O, being able to swap which side the audio jack is is amazing. happy to support this endeavor of repairability
kopasz7@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
There’s new webcam, theres also an “empty” extension thing where you can put 2 nvme SSDs in place of the GPU.
DacoTaco@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They made a new webcam , but im not sure if they shipped new modules with the new webcam or if you have to buy the new module :/
Manifish_Destiny@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
At least there’s an option at all.
psoul@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
So I went back to the blog post. They are shipping the Framework 13" webcam in this updated 16" version. The part was already available for me to upgrade!
We’re now using the 2nd Gen Webcam that we first introduced last year on Framework Laptop 13.
frame.work/…/introducing-the-new-framework-laptop…
The module comes pre-installed on Framework Laptop 13 (Intel Core Ultra Series 1) and the new Ryzen 7040 Series configurations with the 2.8k display. It’s also compatible with all of our existing Framework Laptop 13 and Framework Laptop 16 models […]
psoul@lemmy.world 1 week ago
Ordered the webcam. Will update when I upgrade it.
kepix@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
damn son, those lappies aint cheap
MangioneDontMiss@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
yeah, at these prices makes more sense to just buy a new laptop in a couple years… o well.
ABetterTomorrow@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
lol industry first? Swappable GTX models were already a thing 10+ years ago. Clevo/Sager chimes in…… “bitch, we did it before you”.
Dremor@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Nowhere in the press release and he claim to be an industry first on swappable mobile GPU, and the title imply that the “industry first” is to have a swappable RTX5070M, which may be correct, especially depending on your definition of “swappable”.
notthebees@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
That said, the cooling system is contained in the module. Afaik the mxm modules were just PCBs.
BeardedGingerWonder@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
MXM has been around for 20+ years as far as I know.
notthebees@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
I have a Sony vaio F series laptop from 2000 and it apparently has an mxm ATi Rage Mobility M1. So I can confirm that at least.
etchinghillside@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
Which part is industry first?
candyman337@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Nvidia is really cagey about what the let vendors do with their gpus, they had one hot swappable concept years ago and it never went anywhere because they basically didn’t allow them to do anything with it. So this actually making it I to a product is crazy
potustheplant@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
Afaik, the gpu is swappable, not hot-swappable and modular nvidia gpus are not a new things. Older gaming laptops used to have the gpu as a daughter board.
Pro@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
swappable Nvidia RTX 5070 GPU
Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
the title is sensationaliat, as the gpu part has been done before (mxm gpus)
the only induatry first off the top pf my head is the 240w usb c epr charger for a laptop
humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
for laptops, either get last or even further generation 8 core cpu and 5070/4070, or be happy with AI 300 series igpu. Buy more memory instead. You might one day want local AI/LLMs.
SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
What about SIM slot
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The more impressive thing is that they managed to get the Nvidia upgrade to be backwards compatible with existing Framework 16 models.
That’s the push I need to really, truly believe they’re committed to the goal of upgradablity. Too many “mouldular” products have come out where the “upgraded” modules were only available if you bought the newest version of the base product.
In the next year or so, I’ll probably be buying a new laptop, and this has convinced me that Framework is probably the way to go.
AliasVortex@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I’ve been rocking a Framework 16 for about a year now and would happily recommend it. It’s a bit more upfront, but I love knowing that I can fix or replace just about anything on it (pretty affordably too). It’s just so refreshing to not have to worry about dumb shit like an obscure power adapter or port forcing my laptop into an early retirement.
It’s not the lightest laptop I’ve ever had, but realistically not all that much different from my last gaming laptop. Now that I’m not a full time student anymore I could probably get away with one of the smaller models, but the form factor is pretty nice.
Overall, no major complaints!
SatyrSack@lemmy.sdf.org 2 weeks ago
The only downside I have seen is that GSYNC will not work. The newer display supports it, put anyone upgrading an older Framework 16 with the new NVIDIA card will have to buy the screen upgrade as well if they need GSYNC.
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
That’s not unexpected. Variable refresh rate (GSYNC and Freesync) has always needed the display to support it first.
iopq@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Will freesync work with it?
carotte@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
i’ve had a framework 13 from a time before there was any other type of framework, and it’s a great laptop honestly. ive yet to do big upgrades, but just being able to repair it myself is awesome. one time i dented the chassis around where the power button was. no worries, just changed the input cover and bam 5 minutes later it’s like new.
my only complaint is that the battery life is atrocious. i heard it’s better (but still not great) on newer models tho
randombullet@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I have a 7840U with a 55HWr battery. I can squeeze out 7 hours. If I’m power using then 5-6 is typical. With the 63WHr battery, you’ll get about 15% more time with it.
SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
I have two Intel frameworks, and they both suck in regards to battery life
Buuut, I just have a big power bank in my backpack. Gives me at least 1 full charge when I’m on the go. And at home I just have a lighter laptop due to smaller battery
The only thing that pisses me off about framework, is their abysmal software and communication in that regard. It’s basically impossible to get them to acknowledge or fix problems in their firmware
SeeFerns@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
I have a newer gen 13 and yeah battery life is mediocre at best. I love literally everything else about it though so it’s ok.
I can’t remember the last time I wasn’t near an outlet though tbh.
notthebees@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
I wonder if the amd models from framework perform as well as other oems in terms of battery life. The other guy in the thread said that his 2 Intel laptops perform worse due flawed firmware.
tankplanker@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yeah it pushed me to finally put in an order, got to wait till December now as I’m in the third batch.
I wanted to wait till we had proof thst the graphics card would be updatable and a better one would be available as their AMD card is a bit too lightweight for me.
I would rather it had been a better AMD card, I have a 7900 xtx in my desktop, but i will take what I can get at this point, especially as I know I can upgrade later.