How come nobody does anything about North Korea?

Submitted ⁨⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨BadmanDan@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

We all see and hear what goes on over there. Kim will execute kids if they don’t cheer hard enough at his birthday party or something? He’s always threatening to nuke countries and is probably has the highest domestic kill count out of any world leader today.

So I ask? Why don’t any other countries step in to help those people. I saw a survey asking Americans and Escaped North Koreans would they migrate to North Korea and to the US if given the chance (hypothetical for the refugees). And it was like <0.1% to 95%. Obviously those people live in terror.

Why do we just allow this to happen in modern civilization? Nukes on South Korea? Is just not lucrative to step in? SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME PLEASE!?

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jerkface@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

We all see and hear what goes on over there.

Bullshit.

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- napkin2020@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yeah all the terrible shit we see is just a tip of the iceberg.
  
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  - BrainInABox@lemmy.ml ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Western chauvinism is a faith based belief.
    
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  - novibe@lemmy.ml ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Why would you believe your media regarding a country they admit is “closed off”?
    
    Do you seriously believe they execute ppl for having the same haircut as Kim? And then execute ppl for having a different haircut from him?
    
    They execute generals all the time, then the generals appear alive a few months later. That’s that mystical Juche necromancy for ya.
    
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Drbreen@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Same reason why no one does anything about the atrocities that happen within the US.

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- LEMMYNAT0R@programming.dev ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Comparing “the atrocities” in the US with NK is really out of touch.
  
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  - nomotetoads@lemmings.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yeah I’m sure north Korean child don’t have to worry about getting shot lmao
    
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  - Drbreen@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Shifting focus on the fact that US has its hands in vat fulls of blood yet the question is “Why isn’t anyone doing anything about NK?!”
    
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- shawn1122@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  So… Nukes.
  
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  - Drbreen@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Part of it.
    
    How many children have been killed because an insurance company refused payment for healthcare.
    
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BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Nukes baby!
Image

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- webp@mander.xyz ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Who knew nukes would be terrible for human rights? /s
  
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  - MITM0@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    But it is great for a country’s sovereignity
    
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stoy@lemmy.zip ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Ah, the old question about what to do about North Korea, it occupies the minds of many, there are some answers, many lead to more questions, and so on.

The stakes are increadibly high, so we have to tread very carefully.

Let’s bring up a few key facts.

NK is a totalitarian state with a huge personality cult surrounding the Kim family.

NK is supported by both China and Russia, they both have a highly vested interest in keeping the status quo.

NK is located within artillery range of SK’s capital city, Seoul.

NK’s society is vastly different from all of it’s neighbours, even the language used in NK is noticably different from the language spoken in SK.

NK has nuclear weapons.

NK does not have a problem ignoring the normal rules of diplomacy.

Now, you ask what other countries can do to help the people of NK, that is a hugely complicated question, which in general is mostly answered with an answer no one really wants to hear:

Support the current regime

For any proper aid to get into NK you need the support of the regime, and they will take the credit for the aid.

I saw a documentary of a film crew following a team of surgeons travelling to NK to help people who had lost their sight, it was a simple operation, preformed and funded by foreign organizations, the regime had only allowed the team access.

The operation took maybe a few min per patient, they replaced a lens in the eyes of the patient, and as soon as the patient was done, they rushed to the portraits of the leaders of NK, got on their knees and thanked them deeply for their graciousness of restoring their eyesight.

This is the kind of society NK is, everything is tied to the leader.

This is the starting point, and you have 26 million people to deal with…

Ok, say that a world power decide that they have had enough with the Kim family and this is worth going to war over.

What can we expect?

Regardless of what countries are involved, Seoul WILL be bombarded.

So now the attacker is hated both in NK and SK as well as probably a lot of other countries.

NK will use their nukes, and possibly other WMD they have.

Then comes China…

China loves NK as a buffer against the west, so they would and have deployed the PLA to save NK.
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- stoy@lemmy.zip ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I fell asleep a few times while writing the pervious comment, so if it seems cut off, that is why.
  
  Now, there are a few more things to talk about.
  
  What is more likely with regards to real change, military action by a foreign power, political collapse, or a gradual change?
  
  What will have to be done after thing have changed?
  
  Lets start with 1 first:
  
  I think we can rule out direct military action by a foreign power, any action will see Seoul in SK destroyed within a day, and even Japan is at a high risk here.
  
  Political collapse is possible, but not realistic to happen in the current situation, remember that the government has an extreme level of control over the media in NK, this includes extreme control over the smartphones sold in NK, everything you do is monitored, any photo you take with the camera is cryptographically signed on the device so the government knows the origin of any photo spread around in NK, you can see more here: youtu.be/czJaA0S2AjE . With this level of control of the media, the regime will probably not fall soon.
  
  Gradual change is the most probable, but will take a long time, people in SK do send baloons with USB sticks containing SK media, so people in NK are somewhat aware of life in SK. But as I noted earlier this will take a long time.
  
  Ok lets move on to number 2, what would happen after a collapse of the NK government.
  
  The most probable thing is that China will come and run NK as a kind of colony, NK lacks a LOT of modern infrastructure, and the citizens will be at extreme risk of exploitation.
  
  Whoever colonized NK would face the daunting challenge of integrating 26 million people into a modern society, meanwhile other groups will try to exploit the cheap labour NK citizens can provide.
  
  Bringing NK citizens into modern society with zero oversight will end in disaster, look at Albania as a warning, there was little knowledge of financial scams in the times after communism and several pyramid schemes was established and later collapsed, wiping out 50% of the GDP of Albania at the time and contributed in large parts to the 1997 Albanian rebellion.
  
  Teaching the NK citizens about the dangers and advantages of modern society will take a long time, it will involve a lot of shattered illusions, plenty of people will want to go back their old ways, other’s will want to go full steam ahead, making their own paths without help.
  
  This is just a small taste of the issues to come…
  
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  - BadmanDan@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Great clarification. Do you think lifting sanctions and creating Pro-NK surpluses would help? Would Kim even do that?
    
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LovableSidekick@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
“Step in?” Well, because the world isn’t run by a mom and dad who step in and make governments do the right things.

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Krono@lemmy.today ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
America already tried to save the North Koreans once. It was called the “Korean War”.

We bombed them back to the stone age, then permanently isolated them from most of the world. Despite having good reasons for the start of the war, America treated NK like Israel currently treats Gaza.

Even if North Koreans tried to forget that America bombed every hospital, every water purification plant, all the electricity production, etc; the Kim regime’s propaganda will make sure they never forget.

If we actually wanted to help those people, the first step would be removal of economic sanctions. There is no clean way to remove dictatorship, but the “Arab Spring” model is much more effective and humane than the “Afghanistan War” model.

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- BrainInABox@lemmy.ml ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  the Kim regime’s propaganda will make sure they never forget.
  
  It’s the peak of chauvinism to think people would need propaganda to remember you leveling their entire country.
  
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  - Krono@lemmy.today ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Yes I agree.
    
    If you use context instead of cherry picking a half-sentence then maybe you would understand that is part of the broader point I am trying to get across to a western, chauvinism-brained audience.
    
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- anachrohack@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  [deleted]
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  - Dogyote@slrpnk.net ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    If you read the previous comment more closely you’ll realize that the commentor wasn’t comparing today’s NK to Gaza, but Korea during the Korean War to Gaza. That is a reasonable comparison, as nearly every standing structure was bombed.
    
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  - Krono@lemmy.today ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    You have obviously misunderstood me.
    
    I was comparing the United States actions in the Korean War(1950s) to Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza. The mass civilian bombing campaigns, complete destruction of civilian infrastructure, manmade famine, widespread preventable disease, and imposed economic isolation are very similar between the two cases.
    
    I am not comparing current-day North Korea to current-day Gaza, and I agree with you that would not be a good analogy.
    
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- kelpie_returns@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
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  - ragingHungryPanda@lemmy.zip ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Ohhhhh it’s so much worse. Here’s the intro to the BlowBack podcast S3, which is all about the Korean War open.spotify.com/episode/4ZX1YIvtHhxuoOTaH41VNC
    
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starlinguk@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Watch Time Ghost’s series on the Korean War.

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Alsjemenou@lemy.nl ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
First of all, there are a lot of people willing to die for their country as it is. As soon as people are willing to give up their lives, you’re not changing shit. These people didn’t grow up like you and me.

Secondly, there is a world of difference between stepping in and stepping in. One of the main reasons that North Korea is so isolated is because of sanctions. That is also a form of stepping in.

Thirdly, we already saw war and foreign meddling in that area. That’s exactly why America is the great evil opponent of North Korea. That’s not a coincidence or just because Kim Il Sung, Kim Jung Il or Kim Jung Un hated “freedom”.

Now you ask, what other solution is there?!

Well, a lot of people are actually working on that. By launching information campaigns and spreading Western/foreign music into the country. Real change comes from within. But please remember that this country is now lead by the third generation of absolute leader.

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Randomgal@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Because that roads leads to war. The moment one country decides it has the authority to overule another’s sovereignity because they disagree with what’s going on there, it becomes a free for all.

This line of thinking is the very reason why there are two Koreas today, because of two superpowers who thought they knew better and could make a nice profit in the process.

We have a word for this: Colonialism.

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- surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  And we certainly don’t do THAT anymore.
  
  If NK was oil rich and off the coast of the US, we’d colonialism the shit out of it.
  
  It’s not because the world is now too enlightened for colonialism. It’s because the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. NK has nothing of value, and China wants it to stay there as a buffer to SK.
  
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Ziggurat@jlai.lu ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
We live in a sad world, western democracy with high standard regarding human right are the exception, not the norm.

So are we gonna start war against every dictatorship? Look at the results in Afghanistan instead of freeing them, they now rank worse than North Korea in the economist democracy index not only they got a 20 year long war, but in the end stayed one one of the worst dictatorship in the planet, not really a success

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- BrainInABox@lemmy.ml ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  western democracy with high standard regarding human right
  
  Oxymoron
  
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- rumimevlevi@lemmings.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The western democracies who support the longest occupation? That organized ton of coups? That support genocide??
  
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IWW4@lemmy.zip ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
China would be really pissed off about that.

The major problem is what do you do with the massive humanitarian crises you after you remove the regime?You will have to care for millions of people who have had everything given to them.

Tthis is really messed up, what is the economic interest in doing something about it?
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- BadmanDan@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  There’s really no economic interest for anyone other than South Korea in this situation
  
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Opinionhaver@feddit.uk ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
What exactly are you suggesting we do about it? They’ve got enough conventional artillery aimed at Seoul to cause millions of casualties the moment it even looks like we’re about to intervene.

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ShaggySnacks@lemmy.myserv.one ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
It’s the same reason why the world is leting Israel commit genocide, or not get involved in the Yemen Civil War, or ongoing genocide in Maynamer, or the dozens of current active war zones.

The world simply doesn’t care. The wold only cares when the global economy is being threatened.

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- thebestaquaman@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It’s not that people “don’t care”. We’ve tried intervening with force in e.g. Afghanistan, where the oppressive regime was forcibly removed, and military power was used to ensure that elections were held and the results were respected.
  
  We have observed, several times, that everything goes to shit when we leave. Not only that, but people generally don’t seem like it when outsiders take over and tell them how to run their country, who should be allowed an education, and that <insert group> cannot be oppressed. So a side effect of the armed intervention is that a lot more people hate you now.
  
  Western countries “aren’t doing anything” because we’ve both learned from experience that military intervention doesn’t really work, and been repeatedly told by the rest of the world to mind our own business.
  
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  - Krono@lemmy.today ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Kinda shocking to me how anyone can present such a whitewashed take on the Afghanistan War in 2025. It didn’t go to shit when we left, it was shit from the beginning.
    
    We shortsightedly allied with brutal local warlords, and the failure at local politics blew up in our faces. We bombed 100s of villages, losing the hearts and minds of the people. We sent innocent people to be tortured in Pakistani black sites, creating a fanatical resistance willing to martyr themselves. We forcefully changed the main agricultural output from wheat to opium poppy, leading to widespread drug abuse and addiction. I could go on and on…
    
    I’m not sure if there is a military intervention model that works, but American-style military intervention with mass civilian deaths and warcrimes from beginning to end is a proven failure.
    
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  - rumimevlevi@lemmings.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Western countries “aren’t doing anything” because we’ve both learned from experience that military intervention doesn’t really work, and been repeatedly told by the rest of the world to mind our own business
    
    The west and israel literally wanted to overthrow the regime in iran few weeks ago
    
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Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
No one wants the ugliness of a war over NK, but everyone wants their natural resources, estimated to be one of the largest deposit of minerals in the world.

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MushuChupacabra@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
You can’t treat governments like they’re people. The same detachment from the human spirit applies as it does to any sufficiently large corporation, multinational, politburo, royal court, whatever.

Even if your specific nation holds your specific code of ethics and standards, there can be severe consequences to holding all other nations to the same standard.

Unless you’re a superpower, in which case you’re the oppressor, simply by engaging in diplomacy.

Given all of this, what you’re asking for is for one nation to have perfect foreign policy that would compel change in North Korea. Then, all other nations would need to adopt and extend the same policy, but independently and without external pressure.

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stsquad@lemmy.ml ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Are you familiar with the Korean war? There was a massive conflict which got drawn out into a stalemate and everybody agreed a temporary ceasefire was preferable to even more destruction.

Trying to topple a regime that has nothing to lose and a highly indoctrinated population is not an easy ask. We can only hope that like most authoritarian regimes they eventually succumb to the weight of their own opression. It’s better than torching the whole continent in the name of freedom.

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- Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  The difference is that the North Koreans still fight with the same technology as back then while the other side has made some advances.
  
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  - Danitos@reddthat.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Even if true, an old nuke will destroy your city just fine, don’t worry about that.
    
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lordnikon@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Countries are not good or bad they don’t have friends they have interests. Is always a good rule of thumb when thinking about Geopolitics.

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zxqwas@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Generally frowned upon to invade countries.

Ludicrously costly. Your tax payers will want to know why it’s more important than everything else you do with their money.

Immense suffering. Mostly by the people you’re trying to liberate but also your own troops and their families.

They have nukes and could probably blow up at least a few regional cities. If the regime is threatened they will most likely use them.

South Korea or China or Russia are the only countries with land borders. China and Russia find NK useful to have arround to annoy US. Seoul is within artillerty range of the border.

Building up a new state in it’s place is very difficult. Remember how the Taliban took back power about 15 minutes after the US left Afghanistan?

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- Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  That’s not how it would play out or herw, but even in the best case scenario, you’d end up with a huge area with rampant poverty and discontent that world take generations to develop. We’ve had something similar in Germany. Even after thirty years and vast amounts of money spent, East Germany is still way behind and there are areas that have no perspective at all.
  
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SomeAmateur@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Nukes. We know they have them and missiles to deliver them. Any situation where a wildcard like North Korea uses nukes in any offensive capacity is terrifying. “Nuclear War: A Scenario” is a great modern book on how things could go to hell if one single North Korean nuclear missile is launched towards the United States.

Artillery. In any case of open war on North Korea anyone within artillery range of the NK border will be bombarded with heavy shelling. Even if it lasted for just an hour or two before the batteries were eliminated the civilian casualties and destruction would be like a large natural disaster. Now imagine if chemical shells were added to the mix, because they have those too.

China has the most leverage to help North Korea on a humanitarian and diplomatic level, so if it could be done the best chance is through them.

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- Carrolade@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  To add to this, N Korea also has a huge conventional army, and is a very mountainous country. Lots of soldiers+mountains=very bloody to invade.
  
  This is also why Iran is fairly safe from ground invasion. It’s like a gigantic Switzerland, which if you’re familiar with WW2 history, even Hitler left Switzerland alone despite kinda wanting to occupy the place. The cost was just too high compared to the benefits, so, y’know, may as well skip it and invade the USSR instead.
  
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  - Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Despite what people keep saying, a war in NK would be short and one sided. While they could cause a lot of destruction at the start, after a few salvos their artillery would be taken out by air power. Then their entire command and control structure would be eliminated so they couldn’t communicate with their troops at all. And those troops are conditioned to not do anything without orders. So at best they’d be sitting ducks waiting to be taken out. And I’m pretty sure most of them would cost to surrender once it’s clear that the regime is gone. There’d be a share of diehards that would choose death over surrender but i don’t think that would be a large percentage.
    
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MelonYellow@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Because there’s a city of 20 million people like 10 miles from the border that could get nuked just by conventional weapons

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6nk06@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

He’s always threatening to nuke countries

Empty threats and geopolitics. It’s also complicated because the guy is crazy. What would you do? Also there are a lot of dictatorships that are more dangerous for us. Remember Irak?

Anyway the whole thing is philosophical. Do you want to bomb everyone because they are the bad guys? Nowadays the bad guys are the USA, would you agree if Europe invaded the USA because they elected the ultimate dictator?

There is no answer.

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- Alaik@lemmy.zip ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Depends if we get the Scandinavian model out of it. Sure would be nice to not worry about well, everything.
  
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- BadmanDan@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I don’t disagree, the US definitely are the bad guys today on the global stage. But just hearing and seeing the stories from North Korea breaks my heart. Has the NATO or any western country tried some sort of diplomatic deal with Kim for better living conditions for his people?
  
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  - darthelmet@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The problem is, for all the problems the country has internally, a “deal” with the west is going to turn out the same way it turned out for other countries: Forced “market reforms” that really just mean allowing western capitalists to exploit the country’s resources and labor. There is no good path for a country that involves western intervention. We’ll just make it worse, or at least as bad, but for out benefit.
    
    Besides, why would they ever trust us? We bombed them to smithereens within living memory and since then have gone out of our way to punish the people living there for whatever reason you choose to believe was our motive. If we cared about the people there we wouldn’t have invaded or embargoed them in the first place. And since then it’s not like we’ve stopped acting like that to the rest of the world. If the US cared about freedom and democracy or people’s living standards, we wouldn’t be allies with places like Saudi Arabia or Israel. We wouldn’t have installed right wing dictators in all the countries we tried to stop from having self-determination.
    
    The best thing that could be done if we actually cared about people’s living standards would be to back the fuck off and let people sort out their own politics without a global superpower breathing down their necks. They already fought one revolution, if they really want to change their government I’m sure they could do it without our “help.” Maybe if they didn’t have an existential enemy they could deal with their own problems more easily.
    
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  - Apepollo11@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The official line is that North Korea is thriving - it’d be political suicide for Kim Jong Un to accept help.
    
    The comparison with the US isn’t unwarranted. The respective propaganda machines is the reason both countries are the way they are.
    
    When people are told daily how their country is the best in the world, the ruling class can get away with an awful lot.
    
    It’s 2025, and many places in the US don’t even have clean tap water. People are being “disappeared” off the streets by government agencies. People are dying from easily-treatable diseases. The wealthy ruling class live lives of luxury, while poor people work multiple jobs and still exist below the poverty line.
    
    So, that said, do you think Trump would accept a deal that would allow better living conditions for his people. I think we both know the answer.
    
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  - stsquad@lemmy.ml ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Well Trump had a go on his first term but unsurprisingly didn’t get far.
    
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JustARaccoon@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Generally countries in the west only get involved in conflicts if they get something out of it, be it directly via getting wealth from the country, or indirectly like curbing successful non-capitalistic economies before they catch on and their own people start questioning the billionaires. The “we’re there to liberate people” is just marketing speech.

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- a_new_sad_me@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I wonder why you say “countries in the west” and not just “countries”. It’s not like, I don’t know, Banín is shouting about North Korea every day and nobody listens.
  
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  - scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The US has invested a lot in its capacity to police the world (just look at how many bases we have around the world). So it’s logical to ask why the US would or wouldn’t police something. And usually before the US polices something with force, they start talking about it publicly.
    
    Benin has no such capacity or intentions and so neither polices anything nor telegraphs its opinions.
    
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  - JustARaccoon@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I don’t know enough about how the rest of the world runs to generalise further
    
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- TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  You’re saying that no one with empathy has any power to help these people?
  
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  - JandroDelSol@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    no one with political power gets that power through empathy
    
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  - CalipherJones@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s one of the most heavily fortified countries with an extreme nuclear power regime out in the mountains. How could a country like the United States help North Koreans without threatening intense military conflict?
    
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  - cecilkorik@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s not a lack of empathy as much as a kind of educated empathy. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say. We historically have a notorious and awful track record of nation building, and I think a lot of people believe this boils down to the fact that it’s very difficult to impose a national identity on people from outside, even with direct, physical intervention. We have tried to get around this at times by only supporting what we believe are legitimate independence movements which clearly already possess a strong national identity. Unfortunately even those tend to devolve into ethnic cleansing campaigns and dictatorship as soon as we leave. And if we don’t leave, then we have to stay there forever and we have to keep interfering every time things threaten to go off the rails and then it becomes paternalistic colonialism.
    
    Keep in mind too that a lot of people living under oppressive regimes are genuinely damaged people and there is nothing but time that can heal those wounds. They are traumatized, they are angry, they have lost loved ones, they have been subjected to horrors we can only imagine and clinically document, without feeling the fear and emotional scars those things inflicted on millions of people. If you suddenly give them back power again, even small amounts of power, it is in human nature for many to seek revenge for what they’ve gone through (and not always against the right people). They’ve learned how to operation within the context of a deeply flawed and dangerous regime, and as resilient as the human spirit is it still is difficult to teach new ways.
    
    At some point, people have got to learn to stand on their own two feet and find a way to build an equal, fair and just nation for all of themselves, by all the people and for all the people. While we certainly can do a better job of supporting this, we can’t do it for them and our attempts to do so have typically ranged from highly questionable to disastrous and extremely counterproductive. We fought for our own freedom, and it is not out of selfishness that we tell them they must fight for their own too. It’s not that we enjoy the fighting, it’s that as awful as it is, it appears necessary to get that hostility out into the open and understood to be as awful as it is, for a successful outcome to be possible.
    
    On the other hand, even that hasn’t helped in Israel/Palestine where it seems like we’ve tried almost everything and failed. The fact is, nobody has the answers. We don’t know the way to fix this. We are always trying, even when it doesn’t seem like it, but we have to be abundantly cautious that we’re not making it worse, because we often are.
    
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  - can@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Is that hard to believe?
    
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  - Asafum@feddit.nl ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It seems as though unfortunately any people with the capacity for empathy never end up in positions of real power… :(
    
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  - FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s more that there’s little that can be done that doesn’t also risk making the situation much worse.
    
    Something like going to war to depose Kim would lead to mass death and risk spilling over into a much wider conflict since North Korea has the backing of China.
    
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  - JustARaccoon@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    People in power in the west are barely moving the needle for their own people sadly.
    
    Also even if they did, they’d still need a valid cause to start an international conflict I think, it’s why Russia tried the “it’s actually russians in Ukraine that are being oppressed and we’re liberating them” excuse
    
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