Submitted 1 month ago by scrubbles@poptalk.scrubbles.tech to selfhosted@lemmy.world
https://poptalk.scrubbles.tech/pictrs/image/4e4e5a49-2af2-46fe-82cf-a0e15e3fb8f9.png
cross-posted from: poptalk.scrubbles.tech/post/2333639
I was just forwarded this someone in my household who watches our server. That’s it folks. I’ve been a hold out for a long time, but this is honestly it.
They want me to pay to stream content that I bought from my hardware transcoded also on my hardware.
I’ll say it. As of today, I say Plex is dead. Luckily I’ve been setting up Jellyfin, I guess it’s time to make it production ready.
It seems like multiple things are being conflated here and I’m not sure what the reality is because I’ve never used Plex.
Some people claim this has something to do with Plex needing to pay for NAT traversal infrastructure. Okay, that seems sort of silly but at least there’s the excuse that their servers are involved in the streaming somehow.
But their wording is very broad, just calling it “remote streaming.” That led me to this article on the Plex support website, which walks people through setting up port forwarding in order to enable “remote streaming”! So that excuse doesn’t really seem to hold water. What exactly is being paid for here then? How do they define what “local streaming” is?
Exactly my point. There’s some due hard people here saying that remote streaming is only possible because of plex’s servers, but that’s just not true. They act as fancy DNS or proxying, they lust point to your local server. That’s all. Regular DNS or even an IP and port are all it takes to get remote streaming up
There are two types connection in this scenario
I switched away from Plex last year because they wouldn’t let me connect with my box in Hetzner. I’m now using Emby, ironically I’m also paying for Emby’s monthly subscription. Not because I believe I need to, but because I want the developer to continue to work on it.
it might not cost plex much but from the average joe’s point of view they might not want to mess around with this stuff, or might have never even heard of DNS or proxies in the first place so those types of people might be more inclined to pay for a feature that does all that for them. thats what plex could be hedging their bets on
What exactly is being paid for here then?
Software support and the company existing, mainly, which I dunno about you but I’m ok with.
It seems deeply opposed to the spirit of selfhosting to have to pay for the privilege of accessing one’s own server. If the software itself cost money, that would be one thing, but this whole monetization scheme is skeevy.
The only thing I can think of why they’re doing this is, to drown illegal servers and remove them easily (ones that you see on eBay).
Even if those people people for a Plex Pass, and they get caught… Plex wins; because they still have their money.
That was announced 2 months ago?
And? Does that make it alright? 😆
No but the fact that software is reasonable to charge for does.
I never stated if it does or does not. But seems like a lot of people are surprised about this news.
I don’t have an email, and I didn’t get any notifications in my plex dashboard…
In 2012 (ish), I bought a lifetime subscription for a flat $75. Over the next few years of using it, they got worse and worse with shit like this, so I switched to Emby for a bit, and then Jellyfin. I never shared with friends, tho, because I have no friends, so it was always just a pretty interface and convenience for me. Lately, I’ve just been opening the files directly in VLC, because Remmina is refusing to connect to my media server, and I can’t be arsed to figure out why.
Old school is still the most sacred path.
Enshittification marches on.
This will affect any server that does not already have a Plex Pass, or bought a Lifetime Plex Pass. If your server does not have one, your remote users will have to pay. The service Plex provides is still worth it though, it largely just works on dozens of platforms and that shit isn’t free to make.
Sharing a Jellyfin server with others remotely is still a lot more complicated than it needs to be to compete (no, it’s not as simple as opening a port, and if you think so then you’re either lucky or you aren’t sharing with lots of folks). I run both and I would never try to share Jellyfin with non-technical people. Honestly, I wish Jellyfin would start offering an optional paid relay service to fund their development. They could use the revenue to improve their approach ecosystem and still produce mostly open-source software. Homeassistant does this with Nabu Casa and it’s great!
That being said, the new Plex Android app kinda sucks ass. If there was anything that would make me switch it wouldn’t be having to pay for software, or services it’d be a garbage experience on my most common platform.
Jellyfin takes more work, but cqn be a “simple” end user experience if you set it up for them.
Use a reverse proxy to get a cert for your jellyfin server SWAG, Caddy, lots of options. Then setup a free tailscale account and add your jellyfin server to your tailnet. Install the jellyfin and tailscale apps on the user android tv/apple tv/computer, enrolling the devices in your tailnet.
You’ll have always on, ssl secured, vpn protected media sharing for free.
Yeah, I’m not interested in setting all that up and maintaining it for every user I share with. For myself, this is exactly how I access Jellyfin remotely, but I am not explaining to my remote family members how to set up a VPN on their TV.
I’m not a diehard fan of plex or anything, but I would never be able to get my mother in law to properly set up any type of VPN. None of my users are technically inclined. Until Jellyfin has a different solution, I will unfortunately be sticking with Plex.
I can’t remember what I did, but I had it so the user just had to know the ip address and the port. Enter that into the jellyfin app on a tv and they could hook up pretty easily. That was with a reverse proxy I believe but I’m not really great with the setup, just followed a tutorial.
Huh? I share my Jellyfin instance to people that are as tech savvy as a Neanderthal and besides some rare hickups everything works acceptably.
All I can say is that is not at all like my experience with Jellyfin. Every person I’ve ever shared it with wanted to go back to Plex. Most complaints had to do with the jankiness of the various apps. Lots of issues with the UIs acting funny, a few connection drops, and some settings not getting respected. I do also recall an episode of Severance that would not stream in the correct color space in Jellyfin but worked perfectly in Plex.
Use jellyfin, it’s much better. Also do not kill Elon Musk and Donald Trump, as much as they may deserve death.
2nd amendment is the only check and balance left and the idiots need to realize this within a month before it’s too late.
Martial law and gestapo raids were just legalised against anyone.
The beginning of enshittification.
Prices will keep climbing, functionality reduced in favor of service tiers, and of course ads, ads, and ads.
I’ll be honest, I thought Plex Pass was always a requirement for this 😅
Same. People want literally unlimited shit for free
If they can’t do anything better than jellyfin which is fully free open source I don’t see why they should expect money. If Photoshop were paid for gimp they certainly wouldn’t deserve anything.
I think the bad feelings are by virtue of taking away something that WAS free. This is just basic human psych people are loss averse.
I understand charging for the software but a subscription service for a self hosted program is fucking wild.
Why does everything has to be a subscription these days?
Only if you were remote streaming on Android or iOS or you’d need to pay a one-time fee to bypass the restriction.
It was only a matter of time. Plex is a Series C startup, employs 100+ people, and has taken substantial VC investment. Those investors are expecting exponential returns, and a “one-time lifetime payment” will never sustain that sort of growth
I’ve been a Plex pass holder since forever. And that even covers my brother accessing the server? He doesn’t even need one?
Seems fair to me for a platform I use daily for a decade.
Correct, only the server owner needs the pass.
This has caused a lot of controversy because it was a free feature since Plex started and they’re now locking it behind a subscription.
Indeed. The entitlement that some folks online have towards Plex is embarrassing sometimes.
I don’t know if you’re trying to exclaim that it doesn’t cover it, or that it’s a fair thing.
I’m a Plex pass holder on my server - and my user does not have a plex pass. From what I’m reading they need to pay a subscription to access my (Plex pass) server.
That isn’t true. A Plex pass from the server owner will cover access for all users
Read the email again. The key word in their marketing slop is “alternatively”. You have a Plex Pass and are the server admin. Your users need to do nothing.
Unfortunately, that does mean I have to respond to messages from all my users asking what that email means and convince them they can just ignore it.
A second “nice” part of this change is that iOS users no longer have to buy the Plex app on the App Store to stream longer than a minute. The app is only like 5 bucks one time, but it was a barrier when trying to convince stubborn people to just fucking TRY my Plex server.
Uninstalled. I don’t mind as much for sharing my library but if I have to pay to stream MY OWN SERVERS CONTENT using your service, that’s a hard pass. My homes all use jellyfin now
Once you invite an MBA in you can never uninvite them…
I have a lifetime Plex Pass, but I stopped using Plex a couple months ago after finally diving into Jellyfin. Even ignoring everything else, just the performance difference made the change worth it. Everything from UI responsiveness on smart TV apps to library scans on the server.
Honestly same, except I’ve been using jelly fin for about a year. Even with me having a Plex pass, I’m not using it.
I’m in the same situation. I wouldn’t call Jellyfin bettrr, but I far prefer using something that’s not becoming progressively hostile to my use-case of self-hosted media.
Yep, that’s why I threw in “even if you ignore everything else.” The ads and the direction of the app/service/company made me glad to learn that Jellyfin Software felt so much more snappy.
The initial setup isn’t as snappy, assuming you want to use secured connections for remote users, but once it’s set up it is just as simple for friends and family to get connected. And being open source, there are some nice apps tailored to certain kinds of media like music and audio books.
the virgin Plex vs the chad Jellyfin
This email is talking to you as a user of other libraries not yours, not as a server owner.
“Alternatively, server owners can purchase a Plex Pass, which will grant you continued remote streaming of libraries that you have been given access to.”
No, I’m a plex pass holder, and the (now two) users who have received it only use my server. They still got the email.
It doesn’t matter that they got the email, everyone did. You need to read it further and see that if a server owner has a Plex pass, the users do not need to pay.
And as a Plex pass user nothing will change for you or your users.
People use Plex?
This doesn’t really affect my household. My wife, my daughter, and I all have lifetime PlexPasses.
That said, this level of enshitification has me wishing there were options (yes I know about Emby and Jellyfin and I’ve investigated both more than once) but they have me ensnared by PlexAmp and Sonos integration. I’ve been around since before anyone had even seen the letters MP3 strung together, and I have never had a music player as capable as PlexAmp.
Plexamp is honestly amazing. I’m investigating finamp, but I know it won’t be as nice. Them killing off the tidal integration did help the decision a bit though
I strongly recommend symfonium on android. Plexamp is a really polished app but I found the handling of downloaded files quite poor, I don’t think you can even search downloads when you’re offline? (other bonus to symfonium is it supports jellyfin and sources, in case you were to ever fully move away from plex)
The tidal thing didn’t bother me, as my music collection is relatively large. But yeah PlexAmp is truly an extraordinary bit of software.
I see some posts taking about jellyfin and tailscale and I find it interesting that it’s not mentioned tailscale is a private company. Why are they not being held to the same standard as Plex? How long before it becomes enshittified? I saw they have a free plan but give it time until they realize the number of users in the free tier are large enough to monetize.
Some points as someone who does not use Tailscale:
TL;DR: This isn’t a binary “corporate versus non-corporate”.
Everything you said is true.
Also of note, tailscale is making a shit load off money off corporate America. Every one of us who are deciding engineers that dips our toes in goes holy fuck that’s cool and immediately pushes to implement it in a professional capacity.
And, when Tailscale reduces its free offering, it’ll be time to move to Headscale (or elsewhere).
We (most) are not advocating leaving Plex because it is not FOSS. We’re advocating leaving them because they are changing the terms in ways that have repeatedly suggested that it is circling the drain and feasting on its current userbase in a very Google/Apple/Microsoft way.
We’re not getting anything out of people leaving Plex. There’s no stock here, the community is not so small that it needs all the people from Plex. It’s a humanitarian effort, probably a neurodivergent one, but still humanitarian.
Thank you for the detailed reply, appreciate it.
I have definitely seen worries about tailscale in other threads related to a recent VC funding round, I suppose they haven’t aggressively started the enshittification journey (yet), and it is also a bonus that most of tailscale is open source, e.g. headscale exists.
If tailscale started reducing the free service # of devices/users to push people towards their paid ‘personal plus’ plan then maybe we’d see a similar backlash. I say this as a tailscale user myself.
I’m very much with you.
Never understood why Plex, a once open source fork of XBMC, was seen as a positive thing when they switched to the closed source, SaaS model.
I also don’t understand the love for Tailscale when Wireguard exists.
But, anyway, the same people who are rezcting shocked to Plex can be shocked when Tailscale does the same.
They’ll probably hop on Discord to vent their frustrations before there, too, they find themselves spurred by a company with no clear plan on monetization finding out that offering hosted services at a yearly loss can only exist for so long.
Open source isn’t just about idealogy, it’s about longevity for software that can’t be clearly monetized - harken back to “amazing” services like Keybase that worked great for a few years until their VCs started asking for return of investment.
Use the shit that was made for you, not to exploit you. And if that shit isn’t up to your standard, learn to contribute, or just enjoy the corporate graveyard in which you choose to live.
(so sorry for the pseudo-unhinged rant, but between the recent Win11, Discord controversies - and now, this - I’m just fed up with all the shocked_pikachu.jpg posts I’m seeing on Lemmy)
Every for profit company will eventually go to shit, that’s a given, it’s only a matter of time. You use their services till they benefit you and when they go to shit you switch to the next best option.
The client is open source and can be administered using the open source Headscale server. I use it with Keycloak as an auth gateway.
Tailscale hasn’t removed features yet. When they do, I’m sure there will be a similar outrage.
Deuces at the ready
Tailscale and Netbird are foss software so they can always be forked. There are also. alternatives like Wireguard and Hyperspace. (Never tried hyperspace)
Tail scale already has a bunch of limitations for unpaid users but it’s only an extra step to set up wireguard in a container.
I’m not a plex/jellyfin user, but I have a server and did try setting up Wireguard (as well as headscale). Could not get either of them to work. I use containers pretty often, so no issues there, but debugging networking issues is just above my pay grade. Tailscale just worked in like 5 clicks. It was stupid easy. If the alternatives get any easier to use, I would love to switch over to FOSS.
Their free tier has always been about the same IRRC. ACL’s are basic only. Limited, but still generous users and devices.
If the drop device counts on free or eliminate ACL’s we’d also advocate leaving them.
I have never used Tailscale. I have also Jever seen anyone in the wild recommend it and explain what exactly the use-case is beyond plain, old, reliable, open source WireGuard.
So yeah, agreed.
Also I have been hosting Jellyfin publicly accessible for years with zero issues, so idk… I also dint k ow what the “you have to use Tailscale for jellyfin” people are doing with TVs/Firesticks/… in hotels, airbnbs,…
Can you point me in the direction of doing this in jellyfin? I keep finding guides and things for tailscale and whatnot but I too would like to just be able to install jellyfin on something and connect to my server.
What are you talking about? This is a post about Plex. Nobody is gonna think about bringing up Tailscale for criticism. Tailscale gets plenty of skepticism in the self hosted community, whenever I see someone recomend Tailscale I usually see someone bring up that it can be a victim of enshitification. It doesn’t get hate (yet) because they haven’t fallen to enshitification (again, yet). But the main reason is probably because you dont NEED Tailscale for Jellyfin. When it does shit the bed, use headscale, netbird, wireguard, or any other vpn if you are really are so apposed to Tailscale.
I bought Plex Pass when it was $75 for the lifetime option.
I prefer Jellyfin, but sharing is harder for family members with it because I can’t get them to just log in without existing credentials (Google Account, Apple ID, etc). Trying to convince me 67 year old mother-in-law to enter a URL, username, and password into an app with a remote is like asking my child to eat broccoli.
For now, I’ll keep running dual stack with both. If Plex pulls lifetime passes, even though it’ll be a PITA, I’ll convert everyone to Jellyfin despite the pain.
One other sad thing of Jellyfin is that you can’t access multiple server at once with a unified view
Also true
I can’t even get my mother in law to use Plex tbh
Ditched this crapware for Jellyfin several years ago. Glad I did. It’s been great.
I love Plex and will continue using it. I bought a lifetime Plex Pass years ago for and have no regrets. My Plex Pass means none of my watchers have to worry about paying anything.
Jellyfin ia great! But syncplay breaks if you snease.
But it’s included in a plex pass. I know a lot of people were saying, a while back, they were happy to purchase a lifetime pass, so as to support the software. I didn’t actually realise you could share without the plex pass. I thought that was always a thing.
I started on Plex and even considered a lifetime Plex pass, but I felt like it was more interested in showing their content than my content. It was a lot of effort just to show music and movies.
My family and I use jellyfin every day now, and a key thing is it starts off boring but it shows your music, your movies, your books, your photos.
For folks who migrate who were paying, consider a donation to projects you make heavy use of. They don't usually have big companies behind them and can use the help.
Enshittification engaged. /j
The business model here is to basically paywall one user sharing (probably) pirated content with another person?
Been on Plex for years, I will be fully migrated to Jellyfin by the end of the week
What was the appeal of Plex anyway?
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 1 month ago
As long as the library owner has a Plex Pass nothing changes for ANYONE who is streaming from that Plex Server.