[deleted]
Owing your home today is nearly impossible, but even if you did the ever increasing property taxes will bury you
Submitted 1 year ago by Mickey7@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/df71fdb1-3bb6-414b-b89a-658fb8efb7e2.jpeg
Comments
atempuser23@lemmy.world 1 year ago
lengau@midwest.social 1 year ago
Do you live in Michigan or is there somewhere else that was this idiotic too?
irish_link@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think you may have it wrong on what is happening, this guy isn’t paying less tax than those around him from how i read it. Your area seems to be taxed based on the purchase price and not the assessed value of the property.
From how i read it his taxes have steadily gone up base on home prices and assessments. He pays taxes every year and they are relatively the same as those around him. The problem is that the value has gone up more than it should have due to the local gov wanting to be paid more. Most county commissioners (R/D doesn’t matter) are paid a percentage of what the property tax based on population. This means that if the price goes up then they get paid more. At times these also come from the state instead of a county. This means that they reps are paid based on the tax assessment.
If we make the math easy lets say he paid $30,000 for his house. (I know a city wont be this way but a small house in a rural area works for this also lets assume it was purchased some time ago). The current (as of today) monthly average of Social Security payments is $1976. ($23,712 yearly) This is about $70,000 every 3 years. $70,000/2 is $35,000. Again those payments are based on today and not the last few two years. Based on that math, SS 1976 x 12 (year) $23,712 divided by 2 (half my ss check) thats $11,856. He is essentially being taxed 30% of what he purchased his home for. I know this may not sound like much to some but its not about you in the city working the full time job for x an hour. This post is about a guy who built his home and purchased the lumber piece by piece and built it himself after purchasing the land.
buddascrayon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This guy is actual problem isn’t that his property taxes have gone way up. His problem is that his income, that is say social security, has not kept pace with the inflated cost of property taxes. And of course it hasn’t kept up with any of the other inflationary costs we are dealing with today as well. And this is something that has hit everyone else because the average wage has not kept up with inflation either.
shasta@lemm.ee 1 year ago
No, the person you’re replying to likely lives in an area with annual assessment limits. This means when they move into their house, they pay taxes on the assessed amount at that time. Every year, even if the assessment shows a 50% increase in value, your tax increased will be called at something like a 2% increase. Over the course of 30 years this adds up to huge tax savings the longer you stay in one place. The downsides are that it causes more traffic, causes homes to sell less often, and provides less local tax to fund public programs like schools.
RangerJosey@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Nobody tell him that in Communist China you pay a small land tax once every 70 years or so.
Actually someone do tell him. I bet that little factoid will flip his entire worldview on its head.
bunnyjenkins@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Here in the United States, this issue and this sign are advocating for what? This man is where? At his county commissioner meeting? This sign implies we want the federal government in our local tax policy? I mean really? GTFO with this garbage. Stay the F out of my busniess, if I don’t like property tax, that comes with my local vote, and has nothing to do with the federal government. I could bet someone paid this tool to stand with this sign because someone who doesn’t understand decentralized local government power wants to make a point about something that has nothing to do with social security.
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
This sign implies we want the federal government in our local tax policy?
Where do you read this implication from?
I’m really asking because I might be missing something, because my background is so different.
To me it reads like he thinks local taxes should work differently, either be lower, or be raised based on a different factor other than property value. But I can’t see the federal connection.
irish_link@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Or it could be argued that the local county or city is taxing them so much they can’t survive and they are essentially taking federal money even though they claim to not need federal money.
But hey I’m just a guy who knows plenty of people who look like this who advocate for better social programs. In most places that have county commissioners, their salary is paid by a percentage of the property tax. This may explain the increase in tax or the increase in allowing too many high density locations that have a property tax associated with them.
militaryintelligence@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Property taxes go towards education. More right-wing bullshit
TheBeege@lemmy.world 1 year ago
But this is a bad idea.
Areas with high property value have higher quality schooling. Area with low property value have lower quality schooling. The rich stay rich. The poor stay poor.
Maybe education money shouldn’t come from property taxes. Maybe corporations should pay for the education they require their workers to have visa corporate taxes
Trainguyrom@reddthat.com 1 year ago
Generally the best option is for all property taxes for education to go into one pot to by divided up fairly across all school districts in the state, that way wealthy areas don’t end up with over funded schools while rural areas and poor areas get poorly funded schools
Sleepy3135@lemmynsfw.com 1 year ago
Then why do the schools in my town look like they’re from 1970 and never updated. Over 10k in property taxes here.
blandfordforever@lemm.ee 1 year ago
If his math is right, and assuming that his property tax is about 1-2% of his home’s value per year, then the value of his home has increased about 15-30x the original value.
Its hard to be sympathetic.
LordKitsuna@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s difficult to be sympathetic because you are viewing the property as an asset financially. And not as a place to live, he likely does not give a shit that it’s appreciated and value because he has absolutely no intention whatsoever of selling and he plans to live there till he dies and that’s how housing should be viewed
blandfordforever@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I agree with your sentement but sometimes places become gentrified and the original inhabitants can no longer afford to live there.
I’m not saying that it’s good or the way things should be but it is a reality.
HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Thank you. Not everything in life is an asset to be leveraged to prop up your own position above those around you.
This psychotic way of thinking has led us to this sorry state. And I don’t just mean the USA.
WarlockoftheWoods@lemy.lol 1 year ago
If you learn skills such as how to fix shit yourself, owning a house is very obtainable.
Fredselfish@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Why doesn’t he homestead his home. I know Texas you can and it reduces your taxes. Used to be almost 0 but think that part changed.
PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The average household income where I live is ~$80k. Excluding the top 5%, it drops to ~$50k. That’s (on average) two full-time workers per household, each making ~$12/hour. Their annual (pre-tax) income would be about $480 per week, or ~$2080 per month each. After taxes, that would be closer to $1450. So likely around $3000 for the household’s monthly budget.
The cheapest homes near me start at $300k. A 30 year mortgage with a 6.5% interest rate and 10% down payment would be almost $2100 per month. That’s assuming they’re able to save the 10% in the first place, and get approved for the loan. It also leaves them with only ~$900 for the entire monthly budget. That’s food, utilities, car payment(s), insurance, childcare, etc…
WarlockoftheWoods@lemy.lol 1 year ago
Yeah I mean I guess I’m biased, pgh housing market hasn’t really be affected and there aren’t massive new housing plans like there are in the west. Here you can buy a house with good bones that needs cosmetic remodeling for 60,000
Bacano@lemmy.world 1 year ago
WarlockoftheWoods@lemy.lol 1 year ago
Probably harder to build than just fixing an existing house, but do you…
RBWells@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Here the increases are capped at 3% per year if you live in the house. I lived in a shitty house we bought for 35k in the 1990s crash, and property taxes when we sold it in the breakup 20 years later were still under 1k a year, though insurance was crazy high. With husband we had to buy a much more expensive house, there are no shitty ones for sale anymore, all are snatched by corps to flip and rent. So now it’s high but in 20 years maybe it will seem low again. Especially if the market crashes and it’s re-assessed more reasonably.
It’s just inflation, I do think someone owning a home costs the city in roads, trash, transit, other services, Is not crazy to tax on property ownership.
PlasticExistence@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Inflation is also not what the guy with the sign is taking into account in his complaint. He’s at least 40 years older in that picture than he was when he bought his property if he’s getting social security. The real purchasing power of whatever he paid back then is much smaller than the same number of dollars is now.
$5000 in January 1985 would be the same as $15,055.50 now according to the inflation calculator on the Bureau of Labor Statistics
MDCCCLV@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Yeah, if you are comparing the house you bought in 1980 for 10k dollars and say you pay 5k in tax every three years, using 2025 dollars then that is totally useless as a statement.
DerArzt@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I wonder if there should be an exemption for those on Social Security.
That said, I don’t know of a good way to ensure that an exemption like that wouldn’t be abused.
Sconrad122@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My city has a senior discount on property taxes, where seniors that have a net worth and income both below certain numbers pay reduced or as low as 0% of their regularly assessed property tax. I’m not sure how they verify net worth, but it seems like a good system to me as long as they have figured out a way to do that efficiently and effectively
fuzzzerd@programming.dev 1 year ago
I think most places have a senior freeze, so once you qualify it doesn’t go up anymore.
Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Is this guy paid by some rich guys wanting to abolish property taxes?
sp3tr4l@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Surely this man would be in favor of a greater and graduated state income tax then, right?
…right?
ramble81@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Interesting. In Texas once you hit 65 they freeze your property taxes and no longer increase it. My parents are only paying $1,800/year on a $250K house. Meanwhile I’m paying $14,000/yr on a $500K house.
Obi@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
Sorry how much??? I think we pay like 7/800€ property tax yearly on a house worth about 400k€… I thought US had low taxes.
Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Americans actually pay a higher effective tax rate than in civilized countries, while receiving fewer services in return.
Only the very weathy have a lower effective rate because they use discretionary spending to purchase lax tax laws.
America is a shit hole country in deep deep denial.
ramble81@lemm.ee 1 year ago
My state doesn’t have any income tax. So it’s offset with higher property taxes. Other states have lowe me property taxes but have an income tax.
Sconrad122@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Low income taxes. And our sales tax is typically lower than European VAT when the comparison is valid. But those generally go to the feds and the state, that do not fund municipal services, so municipalities have to collect the remainder they need through property taxes, typically on real estate and cars. And none of them fund healthcare, so we have to pay a company premiums for that. Basically the same for higher education. When you look at our total financial burden to receive the kind of services that are funded by taxes in other developed countries, we can be deceptively expensive, especially if you start thinking about the comparative quality of those services. But our income and capital gains tax rates are low, especially if you are very rich! I made myself sad
Mickey7@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you live FULL TIME in Florida there is a cap on property tax increases. Many people in Florida own homes but do not live here full time and therefore are not eligible for this protection against increases. But they don’t have an age limit that ends all increases.
ramble81@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Sounds like it’s working as intended to target snow birds.
Kusimulkku@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I was wondering if the US is property taxes were like 33%/year but it said original value, so I’m guessing it was dirt cheap then
bitchkat@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My parents bought a house for $14k in the mid 70s.
Frozengyro@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yea, it’s super location dependant. Generally the more rural the lower the taxes. But it also varies by state. States with low or no income tax tend to have higher property tax.
thisbenzingring@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
when that guy was 25, house prices were probably in the $20k for a good house. If he built it, even cheaper. He’s equating two things that don’t really have relevance to anything but his memory
he’s also not taking advantage of his options for being a senior on fixed income nor did he prepare for his retirement properly if all he has is social security
caseyweederman@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
I get what you’re saying.
But the last half of that last sentence reads “poor people are poor because they deserve to be poor”.
Diddlydee@feddit.uk 1 year ago
America is such a shitshow.
roguetrick@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Counterpoint: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism
Marx was not a fan.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 year ago
For many states property taxes are the majority of funding for public schools. If that’s the case for the pictured person, the sign could also read:
“I got my public education for free from age 5-18 funded by property taxes including learning how to read and write to make this sign you’re reading. Now that I’ve received that free public education and benefited from it, I’m not interested in paying for any kids to be educated using my dollars. F you I go mine.”
Maggoty@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We could also just pay for education differently.
Kroxx@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I love the “but it pays for schools” argument, like how about we drop 3 less bombs per year and just pay for all the schools out of the existing tax pool like it should be.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Until we do, we can’t stop the current funding source. Feel free to present your argument on your proposed alternate method.
Damionsipher@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yes and. How most of the US funds their school system is super fucked up. Here in Canada, primary education is paid for by the province, and school funding is based on student enrollment numbers. This translates to much more equal levels of education, regardless of how wealthy a given neighborhood may be. I was shocked to find out that schools are paid for by catchment area taxes in must of the states - it makes the history of redlining so obvious when the is literally a “wing side of the tracks”.
HeyJoe@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I see both arguments for this as valid. I get that you wanna stay and live your entire life in the place you owned forever. The reality is taxes are needed and will increase forever, which are important to keeping your state functioning (as long as the people in charge are doing a good job and actually using the funds wisely). I wonder what state they are from because I know property tax can be wildly different depending upon that. I’m sure they don’t want to, but there are like 6 states that currently offer no property tax to seniors over 65 and 10 that offer exemptions based on income and age. At the same time it is good to see them complain because maybe they can try to sway the state to also offer the no property tax benefit to seniors as well. Still if he is hurting that much, then it’s probably easier to sell the place and move to another place that will allow him to be better off with less worrying. It’s a valid option even if he doesn’t agree with it.
Mickey7@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m not going to offer numbers and percentages but I would propose an overall cap on state property taxes. That would force the state to spend less or finally get rid of funding for things that are not providing the desired results. I would shift the percentage of property tax levied more on commercial than residential. And finally I would have a lower rate for those who own the house and live there as opposed to an owner who is renting out the house.
cheers_queers@lemm.ee 1 year ago
his point is that his income should have increased to reflect inflation, since his taxes did. it’s actually obscene that half his check goes to property tax on land he’s had forever, and people are talking down about him for it.
HeyJoe@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah, that makes much more sense. I absolutely agree, sadly most places draw the line on ever allowing that to happen. Although I do remember reading that some states have minimum wage tied to it which was pretty shocking, despite making perfect sense.
laz@pawb.social 1 year ago
Interesting use of quotes. I wonder how it was “paid for”
Lumidaub@feddit.org 1 year ago
Old people tend to use quotation marks as emphasis.
Retro_unlimited@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think he means that he paid for it, but never truly owns it when your forced to pay tax or they take your house away.
partial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you want to get reductive, you never truly own it even if you live in a society where there is no tax.
The rule of law that allows the concept of private ownership to be upheld in society runs on tax dollars. If you take away all of the tax dollars, the mechanisms that define and enforce the rule of law go with it.
In a completely tax free society someone can just kick in your door of your house and shoot you, and now they own your house. Who will stop the thief/murderer? There’s no police, no courts, no judges, no jails. If instead of an individual its a foreign nation, there’s no military to defend your nation’s borders. All of that comes from tax dollars. So even then you never really own your own house because someone can take it (and your life) away from you.
Dadifer@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah, that guy could sell his house for 5 times what he built it for
Mickey7@lemmy.world 1 year ago
And then where is going to afford to buy another house to live in?
Dadifer@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Maybe he should stop eating avocado toast
HikingVet@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
5? I bought my house a decade ago and it has almost doubled. If he built his house for less than his current property taxes, he would easily get 10x if not higher.
Spaniard@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you pay property taxes then the property isn’t yours.
Gladaed@feddit.org 1 year ago
Certified psycho. If you think owning a plot of land within a country does not have an opportunity cost you are wrong. If you think people imposing costs on others shouldn’t pay for it say it out loud.
Just go and found your own country already, you just need a gun in order to enforce your ownership. In the end a state is just the monopoly of force in a place.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah, this is one of the meanings of “property is theft”. To own land is deny all others that piece of land.
Spaniard@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I agree with the point that land is owned by the one strong enough to enforce ownership.
Mickey7@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is such an excellent point. Exactly when do we get to stop paying for something that we already own
ilega_dh@feddit.nl 1 year ago
As it should. You’re telling me someone can just buy a piece of the earth and everyone born after them is just shit outta luck? Fuck that.
Spaniard@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well isn’t that pretty much what my local government did?