The only thing that might predispose women is when they get pregnant. Most forms of hunting don’t require excessive strength. This is not speculation, prehistoric people do not give a shit about your value system or how it imposes itself on science. Animals in animal world be animals.
She-Ra Lives!
Submitted 1 year ago by fossilesque@mander.xyz to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://mander.xyz/pictrs/image/41c66f5b-c579-4bc6-8f91-f47bf576ef81.png
Comments
TheObviousSolution@lemm.ee 1 year ago
uis@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Emmie@lemm.ee 1 year ago
My mom would puke at these, even I feel some nausea. It just was such a horrible time to be alive
InverseParallax@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yes, octomom has a baby.
clark@midwest.social 1 year ago
I thought everyone knew this. Tasks based on sex were not so prevalent until high cultures formed and people started settling down instead of being nomadic.
Steak@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Men definitely did more hunting then woman in most of human history lmao you are insane
Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
You can downvote me and science, but wake me up if you come up with an argument disputing the entire field of endocrinology, molecular biology, and the rest of biology by extension. Not to mention archeology and anthropology.
At the very simplest way to understand, you do know the difference between testosterone and estrogen, and their biological mechanisms, correct? Rhetorical.
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 year ago
It’s the anthropology that proves the claim.
Tell us more about your opinions on high school biology.
PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Not just nomadic. Many sedentary societies lack strong gender divisions in labor as well.
Jumpingspiderman@reddthat.com 1 year ago
I grew up in Da Yoop. In my high school, our head cheer leader was an expert bow hunter. This “discovery” is not in any way a surprise to me.
Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
It’s echo-chamber, culture-war nonsense. There’s a reason men are the vast majority of physical jobs, and it’s not because anyone is stopping qualified women from working.
Just as an example, in my personal experience, we rarely received women’s applications to work warehouse or roofing, and even less who met the qualifications of being able to pick up minimum 50lbs (not that heavy, approximately 2x 24’s of beer) on their own.
I’d also like to point out that, while I’m not trying to minimize her impressive achievements, your friend is from modern society, not ancient. She had the privilege of going to school, being a cheerleader and having free time, instead of cranking out babies in the ancient wilderness.
FarFarAway@startrek.website 1 year ago
My SO has a theory that if the group of people lived in a harsh environment, ie. having to work for what you had with no guarantee of food or safety, etc, it was common for women to work just as much as men. Such a society needed all hands on deck, so to speak. But, when we start becoming “civilized”, and things started getting made for us, (as opposed to an individual making it themselves.) Women and men start having diverging roles. Essentially, there’s just not enough work, so womens role turns into raising the babies, to fill the time. Eventually, for whatever reason, “civilized” society just forgot about the hard times and assumes women have always been there just to raise babies.
Disclaimer: This is based on absolutely nothing. Maybe some random information that explain that women did “men” jobs too, once. Idk.
PugJesus@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I promise you that there remains ‘enough work’ in early sedentary societies. The work, in fact, is endless - moreso than in a hunter-gatherer society, which is more reliant on circumstance than labor.
Divergence of roles seems to be connected to control of social power. As men come to dominate one sphere (typically warfare, since the average woman in the pre-modern period is intermittently disadvantaged in that by several months of pregnancy numerous times throughout her life), that power imbalance is used to strip power from women in other spheres (social, economic, sexual, etc).
FarFarAway@startrek.website 1 year ago
This was more my take. I mean, like women just sat there and said, “Whelp, there’s nothing to do. Let’s just take care of the kids.” It’s not some natural evolution. And, for all the people studying the past (in the past) to just be like, “Men hunt, women gather,” is ignoring how women ended up in those roles in the first place. The fact that they needed “evidence” of this is, before comming to that conclusion is…disappointing, but not surprising.
clark@midwest.social 1 year ago
It’s called the neolithic revolution.
FarFarAway@startrek.website 1 year ago
Crap. They just took it from somewhere else and passed it off as their own. Jerk.
DimFisher@lemmy.world 1 year ago
In any way all of those are just speculations, it’s very hard to be sure about anything when you go more than 10000 years back in time, all I know is that in school they teach mostly lies
keepthepace@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
Personally I find it weird that we do generalities about a this population as it is very likely that they had all different cultures on the tribe level.
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
You’re right in some regard though I still believe taking note of trends is important, don’t you? If most pre-record civilizations we find have behaved and lived in a certain way it could tell us something notable about our past.
DimFisher@lemmy.world 1 year ago
First of all it’s not even sure that thousands of years ago there was only primitive tribes around the globe, many finds indicate that on this planet existed civilisations different and more advanced even than are own, check Velikovsky and Graham Hancock he wrote many books about the subject.
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 1 year ago
That’s why when you see documentaries about tribes that had little to no contact to the outside world, women are often hunting and do the heavy lifting and men are at home raising kids and taking care of the village while the women are out there. I mean i haven’t seen it, but according to this one weird paper they must exist.
ynazuma@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Sources?
Which tribes that you often see?
Strawberry@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
they’re being sarcastic, since they find it preposterous that women are people
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 1 year ago
So what do men have to offer besides being dumber more violent women? I hate my gender so fucking much.
LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well for starters the meme is BS, check the other comments. Or just use common sense; there are plenty of traditional tribal societies around today, many of which are well documented. Have you EVER seen a woman from one of those communities hunting big game? I’ve been trying to think of one for the last 5 minutes and I can’t. I’m sure it happens but not a single example comes to mind.
VerticaGG@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
Not downvotin but ill bite.
Dont self-hate. There’s so many self-proclaimed misogynistic chauvanists to hate.
You offer your humanity. That is unique and not about the gender binary.
Your intrinsic traits mean people are more likely to listen to you.
If you’re into a long form video essay, www.youtube.com/watch?v=KBn5VF_On2k
You get to be inclusivity batman
If your up for a punk song propagandhi.bandcamp.com/…/refusing-to-be-a-man
Gender is made up. A social construct used to divide, for the purpose of economic imperialism. If youre up for a book:
www.publishersweekly.com/9781557100238
Self-love is needed if you’re going to uplift others. Your intentions seem to be in the right place. Meet that with humility, humanity and accountabilty to learn and grow from mistakes and you’ll do fine.
One more thing that feels relevant, a sentiment from a friend:
I think that a lot of people on the left are focused on the idea of forgiveness coming from the people who were wronged, but I think that’s a misguided notion. It’s not my place to seek forgiveness from those I have wronged, and I don’t have any obligation to forgive those who have wronged me. I think that the harsh reality is that we live in an unjust world, where justice only exists if we fight tooth and nail for it, and will it into existence with our choices and actions.
So then if you believe what you’re saying, be a part of the fight to make our grass the greener
SkunkWorkz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
🥚
WhatYouNeed@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You’re living up to your user name.
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 1 year ago
You might need to get off the internet for a minute
loudWaterEnjoyer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
dont tell me what to do
MyEdgyAlt@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
If you can afford it, you should try to find a therapist. Therapy helps.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I am American so that’s not an option
Jean_le_Flambeur@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Would be a nice plot twist, but do you habe any sources for your claim? If this is real I would like to know more
ZMoney@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Check out “The Dawn of Everything” by Wengrow and Graeber
ynazuma@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Different point of view on your “source”, which is a mass market paperback made to sell and be consumed, not for serious scientific inquiry.
fossilesque@mander.xyz 1 year ago
Murvel@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Don’t spread it around. It’s a complete fraud of a paper for all we know. Just the fact that it has convincing rebuttals is enough to make you consider it irrelevant.
BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I urge everyone to look up the book Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez. The cultural patriarchy is crazy.
Nobody questions how archeology is influenced by contemporary culture. When archeologists find a grave and goes “the body is buried with weapons and a shield, therefore it must be a warrior and thus a man. And they still fucking note how it’s weird that this definitely-a-man is smaller than other men from this culture, and his hips are wide, almost like a woman… But he’s a dude, he’s got weapons after all!” smh
wildflowertea@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
I got the audiobook and I couldn’t finish it. I just couldn’t. I felt so much anger.
But what I managed to get through was fantastic. The part about public transport during winter was so eye opening.
Gennadios@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Prehistoric humans were persistance hunters; women are about 40% leff efficient compared to men when it comes running, it has to do with center of balance and gait differences related to wider hips and doffering body shapes.
Also, women cant navigate for shit, even of they did run down prey to exhaustion they couldnt find their way back to the tribe.
canihasaccount@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This study this meme is based on is completely incorrect and should be retracted. Here’s a lay summary of its issues:
whyevolutionistrue.com/…/new-paper-debunks-the-pr…
And the published article detailing the problems with that study’s issues:
Murvel@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I remember reading this simply terrible article in Scientific American; the entire article was based on this fraud of a research paper referred to the meme above.
This paper was a complete fraud, and people just guzzled the cool-aid. He’ll they still do, looking at this thread.
Cypher@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I refuted this article when it was published based on their incredibly biased and cherry picked data sources which were entirely baseless.
I wish more people were willing to apply critical thinking and analysis to such claims. All falsified claims are a setback and detriment to humankind’s comprehension of the universe.
kersplomp@programming.dev 1 year ago
To say it’s “completely incorrect” is an exaggeration at best. The paper you cited is far more nuanced than that.
canihasaccount@lemmy.world 1 year ago
A bit of an exaggeration, sure. But only a bit. The lay summary of the article I referenced states the following:
Venkataraman et al. find that the paper commits every error that it was possible to make in the paper: leaving out important papers, including irrelevant papers, using duplicate papers, mis-coding their societies, getting the wrong values for “big” versus “small” game, and many others.
“commits every error that it was possible to make in the paper,” and, “completely incorrect,” aren’t very different.
Poogona@hexbear.net 1 year ago
anyone who tries to claim there was any absolute standard of behavior for pre-industrial tribes like that is just doing fantasy worldbuilding
Every social organization you can think of was probably the way of life for someone out there, from patriarchy to matriarchy, communal to hierarchical
0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
I wonder whether there was an infantarchal society where they took direction from toddlers. I suppose they wouldn’t have lasted very long if they did exist…
Belly_Beanis@hexbear.net 1 year ago
You’re describing monarchies lmaooo
daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
There was this group that had a teenager as a prophet. She ordered to sacrifice all the cattle to the gods. They all starved.
Search for Nongqawuse
photonic_sorcerer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Pharaoh Tut was nine when he ascended to the throne, I’m sure it’s happened to younger people.
GiveMemes@jlai.lu 1 year ago
Those aren’t an ancient but a modern phenomenon :p
SharkEatingBreakfast@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
THIS IS A GROUP EFFORT, PEOPLE!
Fleur_@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Can’t we just, you know, ask hunter gatherers how they do it?
Dasus@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We can, sort of.
Not really, as I don’t think any currently remaining hunter-gatherers practice persistence hunting? But in the very loose sense that a lot of anthropology does indeed rely on studying some modern hunter-gatherers.
Isn’t it wild to think there are still a few uncontacted tribes which are classified as hunter-gatherers (although they’re partly pastoral and horticultural)?
thefartographer@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Oh yeah? Then why am I always angry at everyone all the time?!
Boom. Scienced!
\s
DragonsInARoom@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Its almost as if people need to be flexible to stay alive
PunnyName@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I used to believe in Social Darwinism, I got better info and no longer believe that crap.
Fizz@lemmy.nz 1 year ago
Do you have a link to that evidence? I remember reading a while back about a find in South America that had female hunters but would be interested in reading more evidence about it being widespread.
Cypher@lemmy.world 1 year ago
One of the original supporting data sources was a myth of the Ainu people containing a woman who hunted.
If you want biased and unscientific sources keep digging into their claims.
SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I hate to break it to you, but She-Ra is less about hunter gatherers and more about interstellar empires with magitech
HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Dasus@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m gonna use that saying, lol
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Eıŋtcint Siþıėnz a-ſ hæd ƿimin æz worıyṙz. T inu̇f v æn ekſtent ðæt ðı muıt bı ð beıſiſ f ð Æmėzȯn worıyṙz v ledjend.
spoiler
Ancient Scythians also had women as warriors. To enough of an extent that they might be the basis for the Amazon warriors of legend.
trashgirlfriend@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Minecraft enchanting table lookin ass
ininewcrow@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
As an indigenous Canadian I can confirm this.
Both of my parents were born and raised in the wilderness. I don’t mean that they were born in a modern hospital and later raised in the bush. They were born in the 40s in a teepee with the help of traditional midwives.
Dad was a great hunter and trapper and did all the things you could imagine a hunter and gatherer could do.
Mom did the same as well, not as much or as well as dad but good enough to survive on her own or with children. She hunted birds, fished and could bring down gut clean prepare butcher moose, caribou, bear, wolf, lynx and any other large animal if she had to … when she was a young woman that is. She could also travel, walk, snowshoe, use dog team, paddle a canoe, portage, sail, and survive alone in the bush for weeks or months on her own. In her prime, she was a far better hunter and gatherer than most men I know now including myself.
Pistcow@lemm.ee 1 year ago
So you’re saying women are capable of taking out the garbage and recycling?
Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
Did women also hunt? Yes.
“As much as men”?
No, beyond any shadow of doubt. Stop trying to white wash over history and verifiable evidence to try and push your personal agenda of stoking culture-wars.
Unless we’re talking about tribes where the men took care of the children, the above statement is exaggerated at best and borders on anti-history/anti-anthropology nonsense at worst.
You might as well post that the men spent as much time taking care of the children than the women. And if you can admit that is false for the majority of human history, then you can clearly see how this being false also disqualifies the “women spent as much time hunting” statement.
Again, there is no debate on the fact that many women were great hunters and not just gatherers, but you also can’t deny that most of the women took care of the kids.
Looks like I took the bait, didn’t I…smh lol
HawlSera@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Yeaaah… the whole “We were matriarchs!” myth…
DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 1 year ago
What if I were to tell that the word “some” was implied instead of the “all” that you decided was the implication instead?
Smith6826@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
What “some”? I’m responding to OP and their posted image.
Image