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This researcher wants to replace your brain, little by little. The US government just hired a researcher who thinks we can beat aging with fresh cloned bodies and brain updates.

⁨333⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨lemmee_in@lemm.ee⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://www.technologyreview.com/2024/08/16/1096808/arpa-h-jean-hebert-wants-to-replace-your-brain/

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  • teft@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Brain of Theseus.

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    • tabular@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Meme: always has been

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    • AbidanYre@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      The Island

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  • bufalo1973@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    This is the correct way IMO. “Uploading” your mind to a computer is making a clone/copy, but the original dies the same.

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    • metallic_z3r0@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Maintaining continuity of consciousness is the only thing that would make me feel comfortable with converting myself to a machine intelligence.

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      • very_well_lost@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I hate to break it to you, but our meat brains don’t even have continuity of consciousness. We become unconscious all the time. The only real constant is the “hardware” our consciousness emerges from, but even that is always changing.

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    • MeekerThanBeaker@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I think the only way we know it is us for sure is if we are conscious in both the original and clone at the same time. Like… okay… I know this is me in the new brain, I’ll shut down the other one.

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      • cypherpunks@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Like… okay… I know this is me in the new brain, I’ll shut down the other one.

        the other one: i’m pretty sure you’ve got it backwards, pal

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      • witten@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Read Old Man’s War.

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    • nul9o9@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I agree.

      But here is an interesting thing to think about:

      What is the perceived difference between falling asleep and waking up the next day, vs going to sleep and copying your consciousness to a machine/new body.

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      • MossyFeathers@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Your brain is still functioning while you’re asleep. If it turned off all the way then you’d become brain-dead.

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      • tabular@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Some sleep is conscious (dreaming) but they’re easily forgotten. Perhaps being unconscious still always has a grain of consciousness (but is just forgotten).

        It seems there is a line of reduced experience while sleeping, while copying seems to imply it’s always a clone (a different ego, a different person).

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      • theneverfox@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        The body. It’s feeding you vast amounts of information every moment, it’s the one making decisions, you’re the AI assistant providing analysis and advice

        If you clone a tree, you get a similar tree. The branches aren’t in the same place. If you clone a human, why would the nerves be laid out the same way? Even if it’s wired up correctly, without a lifetime of cooperation why would your body take your advice?

        Imagine you wake up. Red looks blue. Everything feels numb. The doctor says “everything looks good, why don’t you try to stand up?”. You want to cooperate with the doctor, but you don’t stand up. You could move, but you don’t. Rationalizing your choices, you tell the doctor you don’t feel like it. You feel your toes, you shift to get away from the prodding of your doctor, but you just can’t muster the will to stand

        Imagine you wake up. Your sight is crystal clear, you feel your body like never before. The doctor says “don’t move yet”. With the self control of a child, you rip out the itchy IV to get the tape off of you. The doctor says something in a stem tone, and you’re filled with rage. You pummel the doctor, then are filled with regret and start to cry

        Emerging science suggests this kind of situation could lead to brand new forms of existential horror

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    • germtm_@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      reading this comment suddenly reminded me of the “Pantheon” show.

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      • Cort@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Man I can’t get that brain laser out of my memory. So brutal

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  • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    As long as it’s made mandatory to cover with insurance so it’s available to everyone. The last thing we need is an immortal ruling class.

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    • Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Hoping real hard that Alternate Carbon is not becoming reality.

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      • NauticalNoodle@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I see that you too have heard the prophecy.

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    • Vieric@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Don’t worry, going by past history this will be available to any and…uhh, checks notes oh, uh-oh.

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      • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Oh at this point it seems like we’re treating dystopian science fiction as a guidebook instead of a warning.

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    • TheFriar@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Let the death of Saburo Arasaka be a lesson to us all: even 150+ year old bastards can get choked the fuck out

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    • assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      On the plus side an immortal ruling class might actually start caring about climate change.

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      • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Sure, in the most dystopian way possible.

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      • rottingleaf@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        … and reduce emissions by wasting the rest. But due to negative selection leading into that upper class they won’t be able to manage the planet further despite thinking that they can and will die of hunger eventually.

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    • realitista@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Is a forever expanding population of old people much better?

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      • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        If they’re functional, and we get serious about space or birth control, then no it’s not a problem. But that is another path we can take to really juice the dystopia.

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    • desktop_user@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      this might finally be a way to eliminate insurance companies

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      • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        So we get Universal healthcare then, right?

        right?

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  • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    We don’t need immortal billionaires sucking up everyone’s oxygen.

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    • toynbee@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      If you haven’t, you should watch and/or read Altered Carbon.

      If you choose to watch, it is my opinion that it’s primarily the first season that’s worth watching.

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    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Yeah it’s not like the rest of the population ever benefits from advances in technology… Oh wait…

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      • ivanafterall@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Found the immortal billionaire. Your username fools no one, highlander.

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    • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Well the “not having extreme longevity” doesn’t seem to function, they are here anyways.

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  • HootinNHollerin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    The final boss of subscriptions

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  • ArugulaZ@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Good lord, just let people DIE. Imagine what a rotten place this would be if people with outdated mindsets continued to control the world decades or even centuries after their expiration dates. People were already angry about 80 year old presidential candidates… what happens when they’re 120, or 150?

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    • skeezix@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      For $10 a month you can get the brain implant without ads.

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      • SendMePhotos@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        You know… I’m just gonna check this DNR box.

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    • SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I know it’s a scientologist movie but “battlefield earth”…

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  • captainlezbian@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I’d rather not enact the highest stakes ship of Theseus

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    • kritzkrieg@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Probably the best description I’ve seen of this lmao

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  • Fedizen@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    No thanks. We don’t need rich people living forever.

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    • roscoe@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Might be the only way to get them to give a shit about the environment.

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      • Fedizen@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I doubt it. They will just dump shit further away.

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    • SeattleRain@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Speak for yourself. I think it would be great.

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      • DeanFogg@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        They can live forever but have to trade their fortune for it permanently

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    • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Seems your plan doesn’t work, they are here anyways.

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  • werefreeatlast@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I want a brain update and a penis upgrade please! Yes 275Tb of ram for my penis and 6" of brain 🧠!

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    • ivanafterall@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I don’t want my penis remembering that much.

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      • 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
        rm -rf penis/

        Oops

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      • OR3X@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        That actually made me laugh out loud. 😂

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    • Petter1@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Cyberpunk, let’s gooo🤣

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    • wabafee@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      After upgrade, years later in a CT scan. Dr. “That is a weird looking brain it almost looks like a pecker.”

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      • ivanafterall@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Total mindfuck.

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  • militaryintelligence@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I don’t want to live longer, fix my fucking knees and back.

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    • GreyEyedGhost@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      …fresh cloned bodies…

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    • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      If they make it so I can eat cheese and go outside in summer without drying I’ll happy

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      • 0x0@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        Yes, please focus on the Global Dryness problem first. I must be wet at all times.

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    • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      This would do that.

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    • Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Ya the SENS repair approach is the way to go IMO.

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  • casmael@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    FROM THE MOMENT I UNDERSTOOD THE WEAKNESS OF MY FLESH IT DISGUSTED ME

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  • jpreston2005@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    There are two reasons he believes the neocortex could be replaced, albeit only slowly. The first is evidence from rare cases of benign brain tumors, like a man described in the medical literature who developed a growth the size of an orange. Yet because it grew very slowly, the man’s brain was able to adjust, shifting memories elsewhere, and his behavior and speech never seemed to change—even when the tumor was removed.

    That’s proof, Hébert thinks, that replacing the neocortex little by little could be achieved “without losing the information encoded in it” such as a person’s self-identity.

    The second source of hope, he says, is experiments showing that fetal-stage cells can survive, and even function, when transplanted into the brains of adults. For instance, medical tests underway are showing that young neurons can integrate into the brains of people who have epilepsy and stop their seizures.

    “It was these two things together—the plastic nature of brains and the ability to add new tissue—that, to me, were like, ‘Ah, now there has got to be a way,’” says Hébert.

    Very interesting. I’ve also seen research suggesting that the application of stem cells to damaged neural tissue within the spinal cord could repair it, so the idea that you could use a similar approach to actual brain health isn’t such a big leap. But still, wow. I wonder how long it would take for the immature cells to develop into “adult mode” that’s fully integrated into the patients cortex. In order to replace the entire brain, you’d have to do it in like, 8 parts, with years of recovery time in between each surgery. Also there would exist the potential for the new cells to develop into like, a second, smaller brain, if the connections sour or if the new material isn’t stimulated the “right” way.

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  • 100_kg_90_de_belin@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Millennials and Gen Z: *bond over their death wish Scientists: *ETERNAL LIFE

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    • Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      “Millennials are ruining the death industry!”

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    • cmbabul@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Could they have at least waited for the boomers to go first, they’ll never give up power now

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  • Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    The brain renewal concept could have applications such as treating stroke victims

    If this can restore functions to stroke victims again, it’s absolutely amazing.
    If this is vastly successful which remains to be seen, there might be a path format to the longevity part of the idea.

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    • Maggoty@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      This could help a lot of veterans and football players too

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      • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

        I can think of a lot of football players who are in need of more brain.

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  • Krauerking@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    President Joe Biden created ARPA-H in 2022, as an agency within the Department of Health and Human Services, to pursue what he called  “bold, urgent innovation”

    I did not see Biden creating a cloning and immortality medical research arm of the government but I guess it’s proof he already knew he was getting old before the debate and no wonder Trump wants back in the white house.

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  • icerunner_origin@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I am not renting my corporeal existence from a megacorporation. There is no way this is ever affordable to the masses without some pretty huge caveats

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  • ashok36@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    No. Absolutely not. Whenever anyone says, “wouldn’t it be great to live forever” remember that means people like trump and Musk are with us forever. Unless people take things into their own hands, but that’s another issue.

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  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    If you want a bit of a deeper dive, Sean Carroll’s Mindscape gets into the science of aging and known workable remedies/treatments.

    The good news is that Billionaires will not be living forever any time soon.

    The bad news is that we’ve got a cellularly defined terminal limit and there’s nothing we can do to simply reset the clock. “Cloned Bodies” for animals are dysfunctional bordering on nightmarish. The human brain’s plasticity isn’t something you can renew with a pill or a potion. Blood Boys don’t work. There aren’t trivially replaceable components in the human body.

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  • Papanca@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Yes, because who wouldn’t want to live for centuries amidst floods, fire, raging mad politicians and greedy billionaires…

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  • einlander@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    From the moment I understood the weakness of my flesh…

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  • Zip2@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Plenty of meat bags walking around now without a fully functioning brain. Can we use those?

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  • Sam_Bass@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    they tried that a few years back via a quadraplegics brain transplant to a normal body. he died on ghe table. not likely to change that with cloning

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  • xia@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Brain updates? Now with integrated thought-crime prevention using AI-safety training data.

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  • redwattlebird@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    If that’s the case, then people with the new brains should have their sex organs harvested.

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  • QuarterSwede@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Somebody’s been watching Picard.

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  • Gestrid@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Something something Doctor Who Cybermen.

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  • sumguyonline@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    There’s a trick most of the population can do to “youth up”. Rewind decades of biological age for your entire body. The answer is out there. Start with the jungle people that even in old age have hearts like 20yr olds.

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  • SplashJackson@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Just like in the classic movie Bicentennial Man

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  • aesthelete@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    What’s that I smell, is it the doctor for doctor death season 5?

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  • Jarix@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I’m in, lets do this

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