The real question is, why should we try to not eat beef for the environment, when corporations make 90% of all pollution in the world.
Maybe focus on the 90% of the problem and not the individual people who but meat?
Why do people still eat beef when we know it's terrible for Earth?
Submitted 6 months ago by 3volver@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
Comments
thezeesystem@lemmy.world 6 months ago
BlameThePeacock@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
No corporation pollutes except to produce goods or services for human consumption, or for other businesses the provide goods or services for human consumption.
Every gallon of gas burned is to power a vehicle to move you, or the goods you purchase.
Every natural gas line leads to a house, of a business that sells things to houses.
Theres no such thing as a corporation without consumers, we are where the buck is created, and where the buck stops.
littlebluespark@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Ah, yes, the ol’ victim blame schtick. GTFO with that juvenile shit. This isn’t some timeless chicken/egg quandary, son.
Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world 6 months ago
There is no ethical consumption in capitalism.
3volver@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Theres no such thing as a corporation without consumers, we are where the buck is created, and where the buck stops.
Absolutely correct, glad to have read your comment. People need to start realizing they play a role in what’s to come. It’s a terrible mentality to think we don’t all have our effect on the future.
pugsnroses77@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
the beef industry wouldnt be razing down the amazon forest if no one was buying and eating it, would they?
Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 6 months ago
The thing about individual action is that if it works, it all adds up. But if people all blame the corporations, individual action makes no dent in the over 50% of emissions that individuals help make; a self-fulfilling prophecy. And yes, over 50%. Politifact goes into detail about how most emission indeed comes from consumption instead of corporate production.
Drusas@kbin.run 6 months ago
Your own source disputes what you say.
The original study did not include emissions from land use, land use change or forestry, or from sources such as landfills, agriculture and farming. It also did not include data on indirect emissions, which come from purchased energy such as heating and electricity, citing concerns about double-counting emissions attributable to corporations.
The study relied on data collected by the Carbon Majors Database, which focuses on greenhouse gas emissions data from the largest company-related sources. In other words, The data derives from records of carbon dioxide and methane emissions relating to fossil fuel (oil, gas and coal) and cement producers dating back to 1854.
...
t’s difficult to discern how much total global emissions can be attributed to the top 100 polluting corporations, but there are ways to get a ballpark idea.If you use the total global emissions calculated by the Climate Analysis Indicators Tool, an average of around 60% of global emissions can be traced back to those 100 companies from 1990 to 2015.
oo1@kbin.social 6 months ago
I think your argument works if someone is stealing the beef.
If they are buying it then that is directly funding that "90%".
Zorque@kbin.social 6 months ago
Because corporations make things based on the demand of those individual people. They don't exist in a vacuum. And they're not going to change because someone on the internet rants about them. Their only incentive is profit
Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
It’s a bit of both. We started out just liking beef, for all the reasons above - easy to grow, good bioavailability, tasty, etc. From there, we built our society up, became capitalists, and started really honing in on efficiency, because more efficiency is more money. Now cows are everywhere and beef is cheap.
Right now beef is pretty much the cheapest protein option readily available, and that I actually know how to prepare. Both of those come from the supply being huge, our culture being built around meat eating, it just kinda being the way we are.
This isn’t an individual problem to solve. No amount of vegans voting with their wallet is going to redirect the monumental ship that is our culture. We need subsidization on non-meat options, more ubiquitous supply, and more practice with the style of cuisine if we ever hope to make changes that stick.
BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 6 months ago
Corporation polluter the planet, therefore we should be allowed to torture animals. You got it boy
DebatableRaccoon@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Why do people eat food they know isn’t good for their health? Why do people continue to buy products from companies that have proven to only sell bad products or engage in scumbag practices?
They all have the same answer.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
It turns out in 1961 the American heart Association took bribery money from procter and gamble, who owned and sold “healthier Crisco” cooking oils that weren’t high in saturated fat, like beef and other cooking oils were.
The AHA then claimed and pushed that saturated fats caused heart disease.
Problem is, something like 88% of every study done in the past 60 years has found little to no link between heart disease and saturated fats.
So beef, according to most studies, isn’t bad for you. The AHA was just crooked and on the take, being paid off to sell Crisco.
Now it is calorie dense and people tend to eat too much of it, but that seems to be a lot of things. Don’t eat too much or you get fat. But apparently, you don’t have to worry about saturated fats being bad for you.
Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 6 months ago
someone else online summarized the genetics part as the following:
Mandelian randomisation studies show that LDL-c is causative in atherogenic plaques 1 and metabolic ward RCTs show that SFA intakes increase LDL-c, while the decrease in SFAs lead to lower total and LDL-c 2.
But yes, almost all nutrition science is a bit inconclusive because of genetic variation.
Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 6 months ago
It's been endlessly studied that saturated fats raise bad cholesterol levels quite a bit. This review journal article, basically research's secondary source that summarizes findings neutrally, lists a ton of stuff, and just in from 2020.
It's also been studied that trans fat, which is in Crisco, is even worse than saturated fat.
Trabic@lemmy.one 6 months ago
Is it capitalism?
FaceDeer@fedia.io 6 months ago
Do you think people in non-capitalist societies only eat the healthiest of foods?
Hello_there@fedia.io 6 months ago
Why do people drive when they know it's bad for the planet
EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
Because I live in America and there’s pretty much no public transportation.
Trust me, if I had a train, I’d fucking use that sucker. Travel into town for my weekly errands AND I don’t have to deal with people not using cruise control on a highway? SIGN ME THE FUCK. UP.
Hello_there@fedia.io 6 months ago
Why do people buy from Amazon/Walmart when they know it's making their country poorer?
Ultragigagigantic@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Some of us work multiple part time jobs to barely make it.
I’d probably stay in the basement if I didn’t need to pay my landed lord their monthly tribute.
intensely_human@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Each individual is facing the following choice in life:
- sacrifice to save the planet, and fail
- or not
People want to immediately jump to “if everyone would just …”
Nobody is looking at an “everyone does X” button. People only have their “I do X” button available.
So that is literally the answer to your question. Very few people would sacrifice the civilization to eat a cheeseburger. But nobody has that choice or that power in their hands. Their choice is eat the cheeseburger or not, and the survival of civilization stays rigidly the same between those two choices.
sailingbythelee@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Best response. Almost everyone alive has a net negative impact on the environment. Maybe that one Indian guy who planted a whole forest by himself gets a pass. We can try to be less negatively impactful depending on our inclinations, resources, and other interests and priorities. Some people may choose vegetarianism, some might buy an electric car or install some solar panels, some might organize politically for a new policy. Some might spend their altruism improving social conditions rather than focusing on the environment. But being ever so slightly less of a negative impact on the environment than your neighbour who has a slightly different set of priorities is hardly a reason to feel morally superior.
CursedByTheVoid@lemmy.world 6 months ago
There’s truth to that. None of us is free of blame, and there’s always going to be a cost associated with the luxuries and comforts that many of us enjoy; but it’s not about “feeling morally superior”, it’s about doing the right thing, reducing unwarranted harm and suffering as much as you reasonably can. And changing your diet, eating more fruits and veggies and less meat, is probably one of the least obtrusive ways to do so (save for folks with rare medical conditions, or people who live in an environment without an abundance of arable land). Even if you don’t give a shit about the suffering of animals or the environment, you at least ought to care about your own well-being.
I’ve eaten meat my whole life, still do… but I’ve cut back a lot, and it really hasn’t been that difficult. Every time this conversation comes up, nothing annoys me more than the hive-mind crawling out of the woodwork to dump on vegans for daring to speak out against something that is demonstrably harmful in several ways, and then claim that vegans do it only for the purpose of moral grandstanding. Moreover, the absurd amount of appeals to nature and the lazy “bacon tasty” retorts make all of these people look like fucking dorks.
You don’t have to flagellate yourself for eating meat, you don’t even have to give up meat entirely… But don’t be a jackass about it, acknowledge the harmful reality you’re contributing to and either accept it, cut back and reduce your contribution, or choose to lead a life that doesn’t enable it at all.
None of this is directed at you individually btw… just venting my frustrations around this conversation in general.
Worx@lemmynsfw.com 6 months ago
Cow yummy
This has got to be a troll, right?
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
What a loaded question.
Outside of the fact that a single cows life provides about 900 meals for humans, and the scraps left over make boots that last for a decade and also feed our cats and dogs. Plus, it’s delicious.
7heo@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
Yeah so, the amount of meals is correct. But that’s about it. I mean, I can’t say about the taste, to each their own, but one kg of cow meat needs two dozen kg of grain.
That’s about as inefficient as it gets.
As for the leather, the industry doesn’t like products that last a decade, so it isn’t actually using the leather in such a way. Industrial leather boots last a year tops.
Finally, pet food is made out of discarded cuts of meat, the uglies, etc. But also lots of cereals, and vegetables.
So we could really afford eating less meat. It isn’t good for anything. Not for us, not for the other species (certainly not for the cows, that get often half assed butchered in a hasty way because of quotas and profit), and absolutely not for the ecosystem.
But I guess the taste is all that matters.
iAmTheTot@kbin.social 6 months ago
Industrial leather boots last a year tops.
With respect, you're buying awful boots.
FaceDeer@fedia.io 6 months ago
Cows are not all fed on grain. A lot of cows are ranched on land that would not be suitable for growing grain crops.
BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Inefficient?
Cows eat grains that humans can’t digest, or if they can, it takes energy to transform them to something human can eat.
BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 6 months ago
It's delicious, therefore we should torture it and eat it. People are the worst.
FaceDeer@fedia.io 6 months ago
There's no need to "torture" cattle to get meat from them. Indeed, meat from animals that are experiencing stressful conditions tastes worse. Not to mention simply having lower productivity. A farm with happy cows is going to be more profitable than one with stressed ones, all else being equal.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
Guess you didn’t get to grow up watching the discovery Channel before all their shows were about crab fishing and animal rescue. Would you rather I go rip a gazelle apart and start eating it’s insides while it keeps trying to stand up with only two front legs?
0xD@infosec.pub 6 months ago
Imagine how many people you could feed if we would just eat what we fed the animals!
crt0o@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Ah yes, good old hay … delicious!
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
We can’t live on hay and corn. Cows need several stomachs to do it.
Also, getting enough protein and creatine and other vitamins as a vegan is a hell of a lot of work and doesn’t taste as good.
Humans are animals, and the type of animals we are is omnivores. Not herbivores.
thesink05@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Not everyone has the time and resources to commit to every ‘good’ fight under the sun especially when the systemic problems are as deeply rooted in our society as they are.
Which device did you post from? Did you vet it wasn’t made with slave labor? You might need to go recycle all your devices and unfortunately that will cut you off from getting your message out to the world.
Your post does more harm to your cause than good because it just makes everyone angry at you.
Sizzler@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
Stop eating meat, it’s easy, you change your diet and are healthier.
Honestly stop saying “Your post does more harm to your cause than good because it just makes everyone angry at you”
It’s a tired and worn out excuse to avoid saying “I’m lazy and selfish”
thesink05@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Can you provide some product comparisons that include cost and nutritional value? Take into account dietary restrictions as well. Not for me personally but for anyone in general.
dacreator@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s easy when you only need to care about your own needs. Try saying that with a family and kids…based on your comment I suspect you can’t.
CursedByTheVoid@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Potatoes, pasta, bread, legumes, nut butters, vegetables, fruits, jelly, jam; all things that many people already eat with some regularity.
Time and resources are hardly an excuse, you don’t have to spend two hours a night preparing some 5 Michelin star meal with the most organic, non-GMO, [insert buzzword] ingredients in order to make better dietary choices, at least not in the first world where we have ample options… Shit, even just reducing your meat intake by 10% is a net harm reduction that adds up.
The slave labor thing is valid to an extent, but not entirely analogous. For better or for worse, modern society is increasingly dependent on technology; folks rely on it, in some form, to find/perform work, pay the bills, stay in contact with friends and family, survive the climate they live in, travel, etc… This typically isn’t the case with meat, it’s pure carnal desire which results in the death of something to the tune of ~90 billion, with a “B”, animals every year that didn’t truly need to be slaughtered.
People absolutely should be upset about the conditions of workers being exploited anywhere in the world and advocate on their behalf where possible, but our position shouldn’t be: “Oh, some bad shit happened over here; so I guess it’s fine to allow this bad shit over here to proliferate as well”, just sayin’.
CopernicusQwark@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’s often just carnal desire which results in the death of something to the tune of ~80 billion (with a “B”) animals every year that didn’t really need to be slaughtered.
I’m genuinely curious: what’s the vegans’ answer to the question of “what happens to the cattle and other livestock if everyone on the planet turned vegan tomorrow?”. It’s not like they can just be let loose…
Realistically the amount of livestock is not sustainable and they’d need to be culled in gargantuan numbers so that they don’t go from a “managed” ecological disaster to an “out of control” ecological disaster. And then you get the slaughter without the benefit of feeding billions of hungry people.
angrystego@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Eating beef is expensive, though. I agree with the rest.
DBT@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Because it’s a damn good source of creatine and protein. And it tastes good.
BruceTwarzen@kbin.social 6 months ago
In other words, humans are assholes
Hugh_Jeggs@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Yeah but so are preachy vegetablists
Each to their own and all that
Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Yup. Each one of us, for some reason or another. Welcome to the club, asshole ❤️
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
Then so is half of mother nature. It least we usually kill our food before we eat it. We could do something like rip out their guts and unborn calves while they’re still alive and start chowing down on them like a hyena.
then_three_more@lemmy.world 6 months ago
OK, but why not eat less beef and more chicken and herring?
Kbobabob@lemmy.world 6 months ago
This rage bait question could be reworded as…
Why do people consume <anything> when we know it’s bad for the earth.
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I think it’s valid that he chose the #1 food source problem to talk about first. Once we fix that, let’s discuss #2.
speck@kbin.social 6 months ago
How about we shift to talking about portion control and be less all or nothing?
Ookami38@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
How about we don’t engage in reasonable, healthy discussion and instead throw shit?
Ceedoestrees@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Where I live the beef is local and cheap. I’m not able to obtain enough protein without meat, as confirmed by a doctor and a nutritionist when I tried to go vegetarian. With food costs so high it’s cheaper to buy cow than anything else, but when I have the money I opt for fish or turkey. I looked into hunting but it’s prohibitively expensive for me with permits, tags, guns, licenses, days off and transportation. I tried fishing for myself as well, but whenever I get time to do it, there are warnings about eating fish in the area. When there aren’t I never catch anything big enough to legally be allowed to keep. I’d like to get chickens if/when local government ever lifts the bylaws preventing it.
SmoothOperator@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’m not able to obtain enough protein without meat
How does that work? Isn’t egg white pure protein? Surely eating a pile of boiled eggs would give you the same amount of protein as a steak, not counting stuff like cheese and legumes.
Ceedoestrees@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Oh gee I didn’t try eggs or dairy in the months I felt like shit after going veggie, and neither the doctor nor nutritionist suggested that either. You solved all my dietary needs and I can give up meat now after years of trying to figure out the most sustainable diet I can manage.
negativeyoda@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I and others are over here with soy, egg and gluten allergies that restrict pretty heavily what I can eat. But go off since you have it all figured out, king.
Species8472@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Because it tastes great and it’s today, and not tomorrow.
JesterIzDead@lemm.ee 6 months ago
The average human has much more of a negative effect on the environment than a cow. So, shouldn’t the question be why we tolerate so many people?
sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
You beat me to it.
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Don’t ya just love when scumbags try to make ecofascism woke?
Go back to being a terrible dad Ra’as AlGhoul.
Nomad@infosec.pub 6 months ago
How would not tolerating look like? Let’s start with you as an example, maybe your loved ones too. And maybe look at the horrors of a one child policy in China before we start following that idea again.
Steve@startrek.website 6 months ago
It tastes good and I’m a carnivore.
Aatube@kbin.melroy.org 6 months ago
omnivore, but i agree
AWittyUsername@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Why do vegans always think they have the moral high ground?
CursedByTheVoid@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Probably because they do. Choosing to slaughter billions of sentient creatures every year for food and accessorization, when the majority of us have an abundance of other options, is morally fucked… and this is coming from somebody who eats meat with some frequency.
Just because we like it, or because it’s easier, or because it’s “tradition” doesn’t mean it’s morally righteous, it just means we’re selfish assholes 💀
When people lash out at vegans it’s always painfully obvious they’re fighting cognitive dissonance… Eat meat and revel in the immorality if you so desire, no one’s stopping you; but don’t fucking lie to yourself, and don’t get butthurt when someone holds a mirror up to your face because they’re tired of seeing billions of lives snuffed out due to pure hubris.
Sawzall@lemmynsfw.com 6 months ago
Don’t poke the beast. Paragraphs incoming.
Sizzler@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
Why does “whatever the fuck you are” have an inferiority complex?
crt0o@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Why is killing wrong in the first place? I bet you can’t find a single rational reason. That is because ethics isn’t based on reason, but instead on emotion. Given that, I don’t find it very surprising that it’s often very hypocritical.
YaBoyMax@programming.dev 6 months ago
Ethics may not be fully objective, but claiming that they’re fully based on emotion is a ridiculous thing to say. You can make ethical arguments based in reason. Pointing to the war and saying “see, ethics aren’t real” is an incredibly naïve conclusion to draw.
FaceDeer@fedia.io 6 months ago
Because not everyone agrees that it's terrible for Earth. And even some of those that do may not consider it so terrible for Earth that it's not worth the tastiness.
You're wasting electricity running a computer right now, when we know that electricity generation is terrible for Earth. Why are you doing that?
TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s ingrained into our capitalistic culture. Fast food ads every 20 minutes on tv. Grilling on weekends. Tailgating. A WackDonald’s on every corner. Not to mention big Dairy.
Snowpix@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
This might not be a “stupid” question, but it sure is a loaded and leading one that for sure isn’t in good faith. Welcome to my block list, enjoy your stay.
LemoineFairclough@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I did try to reduce the impact of what I eat, but I haven’t found a replacement for using chicken with a slow cooker. Beef also tastes good, especially when I eat at a restaurant.
I have stopped making hamburgers on my own (and replaced them with fish or soup), but I haven’t put more effort into reducing my impact recently.
GuitarAbuser@sopuli.xyz 6 months ago
Because most of the people eat the same kind of food their parents have been eating.
adespoton@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Along with the other answers:
Because cooked cowflesh smells delicious, and there are companies out there that are willing to capitalize on that.
The bigger question is: why do people still drink cows milk? And the answer to that one is all about politics and power.
johnlobo@lemmy.world 6 months ago
because not every country produce beef like you westerner. and not everyone eat beef everyday.
go make your government ban beef like you ban palm oil if you really care about earth.
LostWanderer@lemmynsfw.com 6 months ago
Humans can be weird about these facts or simply indifferent to the known effect that raising these animals for meat has on the environment. Additionally, I think the antagonistic message of a few vocal vegans triggered a powerful foolishness in the heads of certain people who are prone to acting hedonistically upon being told not to do something. A combination of apathy, chasing profits, taste for beef, and spite which fuels the industrialized beef production business. Another issue is that most of us simply won’t be around to experience the consequences of the unchecked corporations responsible for this willful harm the meat industry is causing Earth’s climate and surrounding environment. I believe in moderation, eating as little of all the meats as possible (those industries have a big impact on the environment). As an American, I see a weird pride that certain people have about eating as much meat as possible; loudly shunning and making fun of those who have either a mostly plant-based, vegetarian, or vegan diet. It’s such a selfish outlook that happens in societies that focus on the individual over the many.
Asclepiaz@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Tastes gud
Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world 6 months ago
1 the amount of beef I eat is not a major contributer to the problem. No matter how hard I try. The actual major contributors what to distract people by telling them that they can make the difference. They can’t. 2 I don’t like plants… 3 the way the grow plants for food is also terrible for earth
iiGxC@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
Because people are selfish, stuck in their ways, and speciesist. Some are also ignorant
Chocrates@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You really triggered some folks 🤣
njordomir@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Beef is one of the least-woke proteins. /s
PhlubbaDubba@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Same reason we use electricity despite not being 100% green energy and thus being even worse for the earth?
If you actually wanna guilt this question then the fuck are you doing using your coal and gas powered electricity to do it?
There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, because the capitalists have seen to it that you will never be permitted to make an ethical choice that would dare compete with what they expect you to choose.
Being a moralizing prick doesn’t send any message, what gets people to change is making that change easy, that’s why instead of being terminally online fuckwads, british vegangelists spread the good news by hosting free kitchens, volunteering to take people grocery shopping on their own pound, teaching vegan cooking classes, and all other sorts of actually addressing literally any of the actual concerns people have about going vegan instead of being a condescending snob about it.
Sizzler@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
So honestly, one of the only ways a vegan can change people’s minds is to take them shopping an PAY for their food for them. Amazing, this is a new level of shitty push the blame away behaviour. Pathetic.
CoggyMcFee@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You’re saying that trying to motivate people positively to move on from meat is “push the blame away” behavior. But I think tut-tutting individuals who eat meat is pushing the blame away.
While there are some people who believe that eating meat is an absolute moral wrong, a lot of people who feel eating meat is immoral because of what the meat industry does, both to the animals and to the planet. Five thousand years ago, people eating meat didn’t support the meat industry and all its wrongs.
So considering it to be pathetic to try to effect real reduction in people’s meat consumption because the methods shift blame away from the individual meat eater seems really ironic to me, as well as completely counterproductive.