Yeah well let’s quit making 7000 pound consumer vehicles. Small EVs would be more efficient and better for the environment because they need less materials to build and and less energy to recharge.
A 7,000-Pound Car Smashed Through a Guardrail. That’s Bad News for All of Us.
Submitted 8 months ago by boem@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://slate.com/business/2024/02/car-safety-guardrails-bloat-electric-vehicles.html
Comments
dan1101@lemm.ee 8 months ago
filister@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Judging by the general trend I don’t think this is happening anytime soon. The overall car industry is obsessed with even bigger cars. And even in Europe it is sickening to see those half buses on our roads. And this is especially true for big cities, where parking space is very limited and usually those cars occupy park space for 1.5-2 cars.
realitista@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That’s because the USA subsidizes bigger trucks as “work vehicles”. This practice needs to stop and they need to be taxed more than smaller vehicles.
kronarbob@lemmy.world 8 months ago
There was once a legend about vehicle’s size and … Well…
ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Yeah because emission standards are based on size and weight. So why spend the money making environmentally effective equipment when you can just make everything bigger and still rake in money?
HaywardT@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
The EPA under the Obama admistration enabled this. I was surprised to learn this. It needs to change. I think trains need to change too.
labsin@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Small PHEV’s would be ideal for the current generation. Battery advances will come, but we should always try to optimize with the current technology and 10 cars with a 10th the battery of a Tesla would be better for the future.
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I do want to see more efficient, smaller EVs, but no one wants an EV that only gets 50 miles per charge.
Maeve@kbin.social 8 months ago
Congratulations, the fossil fuel industry just put a hit on you
DarthYoshiBoy@kbin.social 8 months ago
My 2016 Nissan Leaf is 4400lbs, which is more than my larger (but still not that big) 2016 Mazda CX-5 at ~3500lbs. Both manage to fit my family of 5, but the Leaf is far less accommodating and it weighs a good deal more. Small EVs are still pretty substantial. A Kia EV6 which is roughly the same size as my CX-5 weighs 5500lbs. You add a lot to a vehicle when you add an EV battery.
ThunderclapSasquatch@startrek.website 8 months ago
Yeah but I’d like to visit my family and the nearest charging station is halfway across the state
Pika@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
If you are unable to find a charging station at some point halfway across the state you’re either being too picky, or blind. I live in the middle of nowhere Maine and I can still find at least one electric vehicle charger per major town. Hell there is three of them in the town next over and it’s not even considered one of our highly populated towns. I thought the same that you did actually looked up where charging stations are located I was pleasantly surprized
Spaceballstheusername@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Your house is halfway across the state?
dan1101@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Lighter vehicles should be able to have the same range as larger ones, just have to find the right battery/weight/range combination.
Harvey656@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Without doxing myself, from my hometown the nearest charging station is 30 miles away, that’s not end of the world far its definitely feasible but its not good enough. Especially when there’s gas stations everywhere. Charging stations need to be in way more places outside cities before they become appealing to folks living outside built up areas.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 months ago
The article has a link to EVs by weight all but two of them were under the threshold.
nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
Tldr most guard rails are designed to stop vehicles under 5000lbs. Passenger vehicles are starting to exceed that, and EVs can weight 30% more than ICE vehicles.
Dnn@lemmy.world 8 months ago
How about keeping the guard rails as they are and let the fat car drivers carry the risk?
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Even US drivers are not quite heavy enough to make a significant difference here. This has to do with car battery weights.
starman@programming.dev 8 months ago
Fat car can hit an innocent skinny car on the other side of the road, in case of an accident.
Akasazh@feddit.nl 8 months ago
The problem is if they crash through the guard rail and kill or Injure others.
middlemanSI@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That’s 3175 kg for non-free folk. My car has around 1600 kg. 7k pound car is a fat fat cow.
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 8 months ago
People are saying “it’s all the electric cars and batteries…”
Yeah my VW ID4 which is a pretty decent sized electric car is 2003kg. You are looking at giant electric SUVs or electric trucks to get over that 3175kg. Even the cybertruck is only 3k and that is just a giant chunk of steel and battery.
SomeoneSomewhere@lemmy.nz 8 months ago
Swifts and Mirages can be under 900kg.
abhibeckert@lemmy.world 8 months ago
It’s the battery, and the support frame to carry the weight of the battery safely.
Mango@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I prefer the term wildling.
342345@feddit.de 8 months ago
Just get an even bigger car, it will keep you safe from those.
db2@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Canyonero!
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
I mean… kind of?
10 or 20 years ago? I would never have driven an SUV and thought anyone in one is stupid.
Five or six years ago? I needed a new car and ended up getting a “crossover” (so basically a hatchback on a lift kit). Still tiny compared to a lot of the cars on the road but a lot bigger than what I ever expected to drive.
Because in a sedan (like my rental a few months back)? My head is literally at bumper level for a LOT of the vehicles on the road. And now we have shit like the cybertruck where the bumper is a jagged metal wedge. I have a lot of faith in modern safety specs but that is still terrifying. In my small suv? I am still grill height for a lot of trucks but at least I am not weaving around monster trucks in a clown car.
Don’t get me wrong. I very much enjoy the increased ground clearance and ability to haul an entire car worth of camping gear comfortably. But I also know that I am “never” going to go smaller. And… that is kind of the problem. People are dragged kicking and screaming because the alternative is to feel like you are going to die the next time someone decides they are going to ignore a red light.
starman@programming.dev 8 months ago
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That’s why I get everywhere by bus.
TengoHipo@lemm.ee 8 months ago
We just need to not have these big ass trucks for the general public. You don’t need a ford 350 with rims jacked up to show you have money. You are a pavement princess.
catloaf@lemm.ee 8 months ago
“But I need it for my work!”
You don’t even have a toolbox on it. If it was an actual work truck, it would be a pickup with the bed replaced with one of those toolbox beds. Or you’d have a sprinter van like the actual plumbers and carpenters around here.
Neon@lemmy.world 8 months ago
7000 Pounds is 3.2 Tons
3.2 Tons
geez, i wonder why these guardrails wouldn’t work on a fucking Truck
GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
My first car had a curb weight of 2400 lbs. It’s absurd how fucking huge these planet-destroying, environment destroying, life destroying monstrosities have become.
Quexotic@infosec.pub 8 months ago
Simple, if you buy a car that’s too heavy for the existing infrastructure, you either pay for the improved infrastructure or take the risk yourself. The minivan that I drive the kids in is only 4,300 lb. If you’re driving something heavier than that then, best of luck. I expect that if I’m driving a camper, and I fall off the road, I’m just done. Game over.
I don’t expect infrastructure to adapt to the minority. That’s not what it’s for.
ErwinLottemann@feddit.de 8 months ago
what about trucks? should these rails not work for big trucks? or are trucks a minority?
phoneymouse@lemmy.world 8 months ago
This becomes a self-reinforcing cycle. If there are 7000lb passenger trucks on the highway around my compact car, I maybe start wanting to get a larger vehicle myself to protect myself from the idiots who drive them.
Eczpurt@lemmy.world 8 months ago
There has to be some sort of incentive either for smaller cars or against larger cars. Currently you can go into a dealer, tell them you want the biggest baddest truck/SUV that they have, and buy it all while having a normal license.
You’d only be paying a slight premium on whatever road or fuel tax if that while having the benefit of not getting destroyed in a car accident. As it stands, there is little reason to buy a larger vehicle unless you actually don’t like driving a car that big.
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Sort of.
It’s either giant trucks, or Subarus.
warm@kbin.earth 8 months ago
But muh big truck
cogman@lemmy.world 8 months ago
The only solution is a bigger truck.
We need to get rid of the commie laws requiring special licensing (CDL, Communist driver’s license) for freedom trucks.
Encinos@dormi.zone 8 months ago
“The goliath-like GMC Hummer EV weighs a staggering 9,083 pounds, 2 tons more than a gas-guzzling H3.”
I’m confused 'Murica, do you want freedom or not?
x0x7@lemmy.world 8 months ago
If you want society to rely less on cars stop subsidizing roads.
conditional_soup@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Incredibly train-pilled
rusticus@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Stupid post. 60,000 lb semi laughs.
Simon@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 months ago
Okay this makes no sense. What about semi trucks or anything commercial? Did we decide decades ago that they can just fuck off and die?
Mr_Smiley@lemmy.world 8 months ago
What a load of shit. Pretty sure roads are already used by many vehicles of Greater mass than 7000lbs. Trucks. Buses. Coaches.
doublejay1999@lemmy.world 8 months ago
…and yet I don’t feel even a bit sad. What could this mean ?
FunkPhenomenon@lemmy.zip 8 months ago
that’s really interesting! I never really thought about how much weight the EVs haul around - and i imagine that the NTSB or whomever is actually responsible for guard rails didnt either. of course, guard rails dont do much for delivery vans or semi trucks - those both weigh in excess of 10,000 lbs. perhaps they’re not considered due to commercial vehicle regulations?
DarkThoughts@fedia.io 8 months ago
Sounds only bad for people driving obese cars, which is good from my perspective.
dumples@kbin.social 8 months ago
Seems like we need some regulation for maximum car weight to be. It's a safety thing now
Alpha71@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Apparently the author (and some of you as well) haven’t heard about 80,000lb tractor trailers…
dumples@kbin.social 8 months ago
Seems like we need some regulation for maximum car weight to be. It's a safety thing now
Thcdenton@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Oooohh yeeeaaaahhhh!!!
AeonFelis@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Natural selection
LemmyKnowsBest@lemmy.world 8 months ago
that thumbnail photo looks a lot like the guardrail on lifeguard road La Jolla farms Blacks Beach overlook switchback trail
betterdeadthanreddit@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Sounds like A Nice Morning Drive. As noted in the archived page above, that story inspired the song Red Barchetta by the band Rush.
DevCat@lemmy.world 8 months ago
There was a discussion a couple of years ago around gasoline taxes and how they are supposed to pay for roadway maintenance. The question came up about EVs. There were discussions about how to include EVs in the taxation system so they would pay for their fair share of the road. One of the options was to impose a tax attached to your vehicle registration based upon the weight of the vehicle. The greater the weight, the more wear and tear it produces on the road surface. This might be one solution to the barrier problem, namely moving the extra cost to the reason for the extra cost.
frezik@midwest.social 8 months ago
The “problem” with that tax is that if it’s applied fairly, it gets very big very fast. The damage to the road goes up with weight, but not linearly. Not a square factor, either. Not even cube. It’s to the fourth power.
Start applying that to long haul trucks and the whole industry will be bankrupt in a month.
That said, this is also a very good argument for improving cargo trains to the point where most long haul trucking goes away.
cogman@lemmy.world 8 months ago
And frankly, I’m really ok with this.
Trains should be the backbone for shipping. They are WAY more fuel efficient, like 3 to 4x more efficient than shipping by truck. Rail requires far less maintenance. And there’s always the option install a 3rd rail and use electricity instead of fossil fuels to ship.
grue@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Speaking of road tax, you know that bad-faith argument about how cyclists need to pay our “fair share?” Well, I would be happy to pay 1¢ for my 10 kg bicycle if everybody with a car had to pay fairly by weight^4^,
Goronmon@lemmy.world 8 months ago
No reason the tax had to scale exactly to match the damage though. At least make it painful enough so people consider whether a larger vehicle is worth it.
magiccupcake@lemmy.world 8 months ago
So much of that freight should be moved by rail.
Tax based on weight to 4th power would work if we nationalized railways like roads.
billiam0202@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Yeah, I think turning highways back into methods of travel instead of “rolling warehouses saving Walmart a few bucks not storing anything on site” is a good thing.
zeekaran@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
Long haul trucking shouldn’t exist.
reddig33@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Oh well. I guess they’ll just have to go bankrupt then.
JohnEdwa@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
There’s no need to have the tax be the exact same for every vehicle class. Proper long haul trucks have to be heavy, private cars do not.
The US already has 14 total vehicle classes defined by weight, the lightest being 6000lbs (which is still ridiculously high, my VW Up is 2200lbs)
Traister101@lemmy.today 8 months ago
So? That money is still coming from somewhere. If the freight industry can’t afford to pay then it means we are subsiding them CURRENTLY. They by the very nature of capitalism deserve to go out of business
fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 8 months ago
In Australia (and I assume other similar countries) trucks have tax concessions to avoid the cost of food fluctuating too much with the cost of diesel. This tax doesn’t need to be any different.
anivia@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
To be fair, it’s the fourth power of the axle weight, not vehicle weight. So it’s not as extreme for long haul trucks as you make it sound, but still much higher than for a car
nothead@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Trucks already pay a lot more in tax and regulatory expenses. In my state, annual car registration is $30-ish. Annual registration for a full-sized 18-wheeler is $1350 for the truck and $30-300 for each trailer. They also have to pay annual fees at the federal level which can be $600+/year, and an additional fuel tax on top of the existing state sales tax on diesel which I don’t know the rate of right now. All of that applies to every single power unit and trailer in a fleet.
Trucks should be taxed much higher than cars, but too many people don’t know or just don’t care that this is already the case, and it has been this way since the 1940s.
eltrain123@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Tax tire sales. Heavy cars have more expensive tire s or tires that need to be replaced more often. Scales adequately for road maintenance because heavy vehicles cause more wear on roads.
CameronDev@programming.dev 8 months ago
I think you make want to go the other way. Making tires more expensive wont make people choose smaller cars, they will choose worse tires. And then they will crash into you because they cant stop.
fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 8 months ago
Sorry, the tax is a great idea but taxing the tires is a terrible idea.
n2burns@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
I just want to point out, even if they’re supposed to, gas taxes do not pay for roadway maintenance, not by a long shot
blazera@lemmy.world 8 months ago
ah yes, another anti-environment tax. More barriers to fossil-fuel free adoption. As you would expect, Mississippi already has this tax. Don’t be like Mississippi.
lud@lemm.ee 8 months ago
Then add some exceptions to cars that aren’t as bad for the environment like electric cars.
Maybe exclude batteries for the weight calculation.
It isn’t a hard problem to solve.
shalafi@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Some states do exactly that, or did back in the day. 30-years ago in Oklahoma, an old 2-ton dump truck with an antique plate was $20, a new Corvette $600. I think Texas flipped that and charged by weight vs. value.
lemmyingly@lemm.ee 8 months ago
In the country I reside, everyone pays for the roads through income tax. Vehicle owners pay emissions tax. I think this is fair since everyone relies on the roads even if they never travel down a road themselves.
fine_sandy_bottom@discuss.tchncs.de 8 months ago
You can still tax large vehicles, because everyone bears the cost of having them around.
watcher@nopeeking.link 8 months ago
Not everbody “consumes” the same. So for consumer products (everything) would be distributed better if the price was in the product price itself. Along with it being included in the price of transfer services etc.
SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world 8 months ago
And the heavy vehicles get classified as light cargo so are largely exempt from those taxes. They’re promoting and building heavy “cargo” vehicles specifically because they get exemptions for fuel efficiency and taxes (depending on location).
BombOmOm@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Every mile an EV drives is already taxed as we already tax electricity consumption. There is no reason to add a tax for something we already tax.
CarbonIceDragon@pawb.social 8 months ago
That depends on if the tax is sufficient to cover the societal costs of driving that mile or not. Not every use of electricity degrades public infrastructure to the same extent, so if the maintenance burden an EV adds is more than what the electricity tax brings in, then additional taxes to make up the difference would make sense.
Pika@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
An alternative idea that I mentioned on a thread yesterday about vehicles with high bumpers, adjust the license class system to be more strict regarding vehicles. You already have to have extra training in a different license to run transport vehicles or semi trucks you should have to do the same with large vehicles, I’m not saying ban every pickup truck out there because I fully agree that trucks are a hard requirement especially in snow covered States like mine but there is a difference between having a pickup truck and having a monster truck at least in my opinion heavier or taller than low end transport vehicles
MrMcGasion@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Agreed, there’s also plenty of people who think that just because they have a large vehicle, that they’re immune to the snow. Obviously there’s a quantity of snow that trucks are more necessary for, but I’ll admit to feeling a bit smug when I see ditches full of abandoned trucks and SUVs, as I drive by in my little front wheel drive sedan.
RecallMadness@lemmy.nz 8 months ago
Come April, NZ will be charging EVs road user charges using the same price-per-kilometre mechanism diesel (diesel not have a fuel levy) vehicles use.