Submitted 6 months ago by L4s@lemmy.world [bot] to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theregister.com/2023/10/18/take_windows_11_please/
Leaks confirm low takeup for Windows 11::Time to rethink Windows 10 support cycle then?
There is nothing about windows 11 that’s better than on windows 10. Why would anyone switch voluntarily?
Windows 10 at least had better automatic driver installation, touchscreen and multi-monitor support compared to 7, but came with a shitload of ads built right into it. Windows 11 has even more ads, but what does it give you?
Apk support. Saves you having to get LDplayer or something. Would be great if you’re developing android aps.
But yeah the juice isn’t worth the squeeze in this case. I’m not switching till 10 goes eol and even then there’s a strong chance I’ll fully switch to linux instead.
That’s not even a selling point to an android dev. Android emulators already run, and give a better simulation of a physical device. The only reason it’d be useful for android dev is if you’re actually developing an APK for Windows itself.
You literally need a third party application to install an APK. At that point you might as well get an android emulator instead of using this spyware.
More ads!
I think the VM support is better on Windows 11. I tested gaming on both 10 and 11 on my Linux install and 11 performed better. Otherwise, agreed 11 is a downgrade
For linux clients maybe, but definitely not for windows clients. Microsoft practically killed Virtualbox, so we have to use Hyper-V at work now. And unlike virtualbox, it doesn’t let me install my keyboard layout in the VM via MSKLC, which is literally made by microsoft. I had to convert my virtualbox VM where it was installed already and guess what, it works perfectly now.
I also have to disable the keyboard manager in powertoys, another microsoft product, whenever I use the VM because capslock gets stuck on inside the VM if I don’t. That also happens on VMs without my keyboard layout, so it’s a separate issue.
The VM also feels much slower and glitchier than the virtualbox one I used on an older computer.
I haven’t tried VMs via hyper v but WSL and sandbox seems to work a bit better. I don’t know if it’s quantifiablely better but it feels like runs better.
I wouldn’t go that far, but the nagware is exhausting.
GUI support is in Win10 as well: learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/…/gui-apps
Tabbed explorer can also be achieved with third party apps (I use QTTabBar).
I guess it has Windows Subsystem for Android, but that’s definitely not a compelling enough feature for most. If you’re so inclined, there’s projects out there to enable it in Win10 as well (github.com/MustardChef/WSABuilds)
The only feature I’ve seen that’s worth it is tab support in windows explorer.
HDR support is a big one for me and the reason I switched. APK support is nice. I like the glassy look although that could be achieved on 10 via other means. The search function feels much better to use and it’s nice because I like to use the search function instead of keeping things on my desktop
MS Indexing is terrible. It’s only saving grace is that it scans inside Outlook. If you want a fast search and instant results try Everything by VoidTools com.
Search only feels better in 11 because 10s was so bad. Both of them are pretty bad.
How much better is the HDR support in Win11? Does it stop your desktop looking washed out when turned on?
Windows 10 replaced 7 for most people because 8 was a piece of junk. Windows 7 was old by the time 10 came out so there was pent up demand and 10 was a pretty solid showing.
There’s not much that’s compelling about 11 and they’ve introduced unwanted things. It shouldn’t be surprising that people prefer to stay on 10, which is one of the better operating systems Microsoft has ever released. Combine that with the dominance of Linux in the server space and what seems like increased adoption on the desktop and it’s a recipe for poor numbers. For a lot of developers, it’s easier being on a Linux desktop when Linux is the deployment target.
I saw in my old line of work that most business over a certain size just have a few key programs that need to work and could not give two shits about whatever new OS was out if it could not run those programs. The fact that in places like the banking sector many of the programs are UNIX era and need emulation just to use on a desktop and not being spied is often a requirement it would make no sense what so ever to upgrade. I have also seen an uptick in Linux and Mac workstations as both are looking more attractive then the wild ride windows has become.
Oh and in case people think security on older OS is a concern for companies I know for a fact that several ATMs in north America are still running on XP (upgraded about 7 years ago from 2000).
My last gig was as a CIO in a fairly large organization and we had stringent infosec requirements due to the industry we were in. Old operating systems and software are absolutely an issue, although it still doesn’t stop some companies from running them.
Most of the malware going around exploits patched vulnerabilities. It literally takes seconds and not exactly a high skill level to compromise a machine that’s missing security updates. Regular patching is without a doubt one of the best controls you can have in place. The other big issue was social engineering. If you don’t effectively tackle those two things it doesn’t matter what else you do because you will be breached.
Besides that, you’re mostly right. We were all over the security updates but didn’t care for other upgrades because they introduce instability. It’s the last thing you want with thousands of endpoints and a bunch of shitty enterprise apps. Run it until the wheels fall off or it’s approaching EOL for security updates.
banking sector many of the programs are UNIX era
Somewhere in the distance a mainframe sysop with blue tie is protesting that statement but nobody’s hearing him over the sound of the industrial-scale fans.
Windows 10 replaced 7 for most people because 8 was a piece of junk.
Mostly true; most people who wound up with 8 or 8.1 did so by buying a computer during that brief period of time, few people wanted it, few people liked it, and many people avoided using it. Especially computer enthusiasts did in fact go from 7 to 10.
Windows 7 was old by the time 10 came out so there was pent up demand and 10 was a pretty solid showing.
That’s not how I remember events. When Windows 10 was young it was not very popular; they got a lot of backlash for that “Upgrade to Windows 10! [yes] [not yet]” pop-up that took no answer as a yes and installed the OS on idling computers overnight.
Maybe that was an issue with Windows 10 on the consumer side. I don’t have experience with the home versions. In any case, it was a good upgrade and it provided more secure desktops for most people. On the corporate side, we were pretty happy to go to 10 and it was a smooth process. We had to do it in phases and we got a lot more calls from users wanting to move higher on the list than complaints. There were only a few asking to be last and the only real problem we had was one guy who demanded we buy him a refurbished Surface that had a specific old version of 8 pre-installed because it was “the best version ever”.
You forgot Vista. Nobody wanted Vista because it was a piece of junk. 8 was ok, but since 7 was still supported and people hate change they stuck with 7. The worst thing about 8 was the dumb full screen start menu… once that was gone after 8.1 I enjoyed it just fine and was pretty close to windows 10.
Same goes for 11 for me. I don’t mind it, I hate the tracking and built in news and ads but it’s pretty easy to stop a lot of that. I think the thing I hate the most is the small stuff they release for 11 that 10 could easily have but they will never release it for 10. Like tabbed notepad, or window arrangement, and now built in winrar support. I love these things, but hold them back from 10 just to get people to switch without realizing it’s not enough for people to care that much.
Vista was pretty bad. That was another one most people skipped. They had 2 excellent releases prior to that - 2000 and XP - and then shit the bed with Vista. I still think 8 was worse though. But 2000 was my personal favorite Microsoft OS so what the hell do I know.
Windows 11 finally pushed me over to Linux. I’m not advocating everyone jump ship, because it’s different and takes getting used to. I work in IT so it was a bit more natural for me. I would encourage people maybe trying it on old hardware or just off of a USB to experience it though. Mainly, I wanted to be proficient with Linux before Microsoft made Windows a subscription.
The rumor of Windows going subscription based is so cooked. There’s no way that happens. It’s a shitty rumor based on huge speculation that already has better explanations.
I’m not speaking to any specific reports. I just think that some day Microsoft will make it a subscription because that’s where they’ve taken everything. You’ll have to sign up for a new “w365” which will have the office suite and the OS will live in Azure. They will be like Chromebooks, but for Windows. Naturally, there will be tiers for storage and pro apps, a business tier, and a government tier.
I hope it doesn’t come to that, but if it does, I don’t want to be a part of it. On the business side, I think it’s already headed that way. It may not be a subscription for Windows, but it will be thin clients running stuff in the cloud. It’s already possible, I think it will be the mainstream someday.
This has actually been on Microsoft’s internal roadmap for a while now. The bigger goal is to move to a Desktop as a Service model for Windows.
Welcome to the good side 😀 what distro did you settle on?
Admittedly, I did fable a little in Ubuntu and Mint years ago, so I had some level of familiarity.
I wanted something gaming focused to minimize setup, so I went with Garuda, which is Arch based. I had some issues early on with discord and steam that I thought having a gaming centric distro would have prevented, but it didn’t. If I didn’t have to reinstall things I would probably switch to something more vanilla, but stick with Arch.
The file structure and cli commands have been the biggest hurdle having spent my life in a Windows environment, but it’s coming along. It’s weird needing to think how to do things and look up commands for things that are second nature. Like ipconfig /all in Windows. Linux has ethtools with a million switches, and ifconfig which is similar, but different. I run a Pihole docker on my unRAID server, and setting a static DNS was a pain. Some of those things which could give a new user enough problems that they just give up and go back to Windows is why I wouldn’t say it’s for everyone on a whim. Best to get a more user friendly distro and dabble before committing.
“Windows 11 is simply OK. There’s nothing particularly wrong with it except for its hardware requirements.”
Wtf? It’s just ok? It’s a resource hog, excelling at one thing: spyware implementation.
Have you seen the new Taskbar? It has the functionality of a wooden stick. They even had to make a damn patch to put the “Start Task Manager” option back in the context menu! They fucked up the menus and now everything is just “several hundred clicks away”.
And their constant push for subscription based shit is just annoying lime hell.
Linux Desktop is the future, might as well start to get familiar with it now, why wait?
Unfortunately for work I have to use Windows.
That comment on the article made me wonder how long this person has been using computers, and whether he has seen anything other than Windows 10 and 11. If you’ve only seen 10, then 11 seems like a bland, slightly shittier OS, but if you have a broader experience you probably find 11 to be a bloated, slow, ad ridden piece of crap.
Damn, I feel old! :)
Honestly I feel like people would pay more for a simple windowsOS, no spyware, no ads, just fucking works as an OS. I already switched to Linux but some people haven’t or can’t at the moment.
I would also like one that isn’t: “this is the last one I promise. Oops I released another windows like 3 years into it. Guess what gamers, you need it or you can’t get future improvements.”
It’s win10 with dx12 all over again…
There’s not enough money in one time purchase products, always have to forcibly push everyone into an ecosystem focused on subscription and make it difficult to escape from.
The odd part is that I am sure many people and businesses would not mind paying a subscription to keep there existing windows (whatever that happens to be) up to date. It would be way cheaper then making a new OS every few years.
But then they might have to accept that the technology is maturing overall…
I’m gonna keep riding 10 as long as I can then it’s back to Linux for me.
It already just works, keep projecting and troubleshooting linux
If windows LTSC was released as Windows 10 home addition I would have been pretty happy relatively.
Windows 11 isn’t a particularly bad version of Windows by any stretch of the imagination. Some elements of the user interface might grate a little, and there will always be users for whom one design choice or another will be loudly rejected – there were those, after all, who raged at the imposition of the Start Menu over the Program Manager of old. But the operating system itself is… fine.
The enshitification of Windows has been going on a long time.
I don’t want the latest flavor in my devices.
They’ve been getting a lot more aggressive with forcing preloaded apps, and advertising by the way of ‘recommendations’ or ‘suggestions’ and they keep making it harder to disable. Forced bing web search, forced ‘AI’ integration… It’s pretty bad these days. Windows 7 feels like the last version that you could actually run lean without risking stability.
I went through all the trouble of enabling the UEFI/BIOS stuff I needed for the upgrade. Then I found out what they did to the taskbar and decided not to get it.
Last time I checked, the third highest voted feature request in the built-in feedback tool is to take the recommended section out of the start menu. A couple years after launch the best we got is the product manager saying “we added an option to reduce the size :)” So it’s definitely intended for advertising, and I don’t do advertising. The professional version used to allow people to customise away that kind of bullshit, but not on W11.
It has a setting to at least not show anything there but it still leaves a blank space. Seems like something that would have a mod somewhere to get rid of it.
Seriously, the Taskbar shit has me considering going to Linux for even my gaming pc, especially since they’ve said they have no intention of fixing it. So stupid to get rid of such a common customization just so you can see their fancy start menu.
If you dont play competitive multiplayer, Steam Deck’s version of Linux runs damn near every game at this point
I use “StartIsBack” it’s so good. Makes the taskbar exactly how I want it (it’s customisable). I’ve got it functioning closer to Windows 7 but with the look of 11 but still keeping it thin. Well worth the money. Shame it required a third party app for me to really like 11 though.
The Windows 11 version is called StartAllBack and makes Windows 11 much better. Annoyed I had to pay for an upgrade but it was worth it
If microsoft would just put out a modernized version of windows 95 it would probably be seen as “visionary” and be perfect for like what eighty percent of people and businesses, I just want a modern windows that unnoticeable and secure
Honestly, if there was just a modern windows XP that could run the programs I dualboot for, I wouldn’t be dualbooting!
Windows 11 was mostly released to take advantage of Intel’s split of CPU cores into efficiency and performance cores (E and P cores). If you don’t care about these E-cores or don’t have them, Windows 11 looks like just a small UI change at first glance.
What if any advantage does the P/E cores have when weighed against the bloat? It can’t be power related as those CPUs last time I checked still hogs.
On a desktop system? Cost to manufacture. Simpler cores are more space-efficient per IPS (instructions per second) and thus you can squeeze more IPS on a given area of die and die area is money.
In areas where you care about power and heat budget (mobile, datacenter-scale servers) you also get advantages in those terms. What you lose is the sheer single-thread speed of the beefy CPU cores, but then not everything needs to be that fast. Small cores also keep random small loads off the beefy cores (say: move the mouse pointer) meaning that those don’t have to context-switch that often meaning the get to run more instead of waiting for data.
It definitely makes sense to have a couple of them around though they’re not going to make or break a CPU, at least not on the desktop. ARM processors have been using that scheme for ages (called big.LITTLE), hardly surprising seeing as practically everything mobile runs ARM. Also Linux had scheduling support for those kinds of architectures for ages, MS definitely didn’t have to roll out a whole new OS version for that.
Fun side note: AMD’s mini Zen 4 cores are in a sense the exact same cores as their usual Zen 4 cores: They have the same gate layout. What they do is pack them differently (and giving them half the L3 cache), achieving only ~3GHz instead of the full 5.5GHz for the full cores, but fitting two mini cores into the same area as one big core.
Isn’t 11 like less bloaty than 10? I’ve not noticed that much bloat compared to when I originally installed 10
Honestly, I don’t know. It was supposed to be power management but for all know, it could all be marketing nonsense.
I went Windows 10 > Linux Mint
I have nothing to complain about. Lateral move in terms of functionality. In terms of general freedom and feeling like I actually own the PC I purchased,… 100% improvement.
If video games weren’t my primary hobby, I’d have switched already. But the gaming experience on Linux is still wanting.
I mean, if you’re still wanting, it’s wanting.
Personally I don’t really touch EA or Ubisoft so, I don’t miss anything, and even if I was into them, from the looks of things, I wouldn’t be missing much.
I can only speak for myself, but as a gamer I don’t have a lot of complaints with gaming on linux. If most of your games are on steam they should work fine on linux thanks to proton (and steamdeck too). Sure, if you play a lot of multiplayer games where the anti-cheat doesn’t tolerate linux, then staying on windows is understandable. Outside of steam, there are other launchers, lutris and heroic, for example.
I’m personally still dual booting, because one game that I played still doesn’t work on linux, but as I don’t play that game anymore nor have I booted to windows in like 6 months, I might as well get rid of windows once and for all.
Worth checking into Steam and Nobara or other game friendly distro.
That’s a big issue for lots of people.
I will say though that Steam’s Proton is amazing. I play Guild Wars 2 and all previous emulations were awful and buggy. With Proton it’s no different to running in Windows.
Definitely worth a try.
Mint ftw!
I’ve loved mint ever since I first tried it. An OS that actually does what I want it to do. My only complaint with mint is that it works so well that I keep forgetting the console commands and have to look them up when I do need them. Thinking about installing suicide linux on an old laptop and learning the hard way lol.
I had to do the reverse switch and it sucks :(
Unless you are willing to switch to linux, suck it up
Steam deck baybeee, next tower is gonna follow suit with the same linux type!
Thats what I did.
Time to rethink Windows 10 support cycle then?
This doesn’t stop Microsoft. It only encourages them to do it harder.
I still think 10 is a waste of space and would be using only linux or 7 if not for gamepass (old distant friends have xboxes only). I still run 7 on my living room pc and its honestly a better experience then 10. I am old enough to remember how each new windows addressed a flaw in the last (even if that flaw was made up). Here is off the top of my head some examples (leaving out the better NT line) :
Windows 95: Upgrade from 3.1 in most ways, first time dos was really secondary. Windows 98: Much better USB support and more “plug and play” Windows ME: Fixed the issue of people having hard drive space. Windows XP: Massive upgrade in supported hardware, usability etc. Windows Vista: People thought this sucked (it did) but the main reason was that it (and x64 XP) supported more then 4 gigs of ram. Windows 7: Was not Vista and much more efficient. Windows 8: Fixed the perceived flaw that your PC should really be a phone for some reason? Windows 9: DAMN IT MICROSOFT LEARN TO COUNT! Windows 10: Was not a Phone OS. Things like gamepass are supported. Told this was the last windows.
Just downgraded back to Windows 10, such a relief. 11 is absolute trash. Constantly hangs, on a completely stock install with literally ONE app, a single app that I even still use Windows for that is not the cause the hang. The UI on 10 is so much simpler, and functional 11 just feels like Windows ME/Vista all over again.
Obviously as much of the installed base can’t upgrade. This was done on purpose. As 10 goes eol, businesses and consumers will have to upgrade their hardware. Pushing new hardware has been msft strategy since forever.
What did they expect? Windows 11 cannot run in anything.
This is normal Microsoft cadence: one good OS, one shitty OS.
oh no x’D
Does Windows 11 still requires a TPM module?
I was forced to switch at work and the UI ergonomics itself is a major step back compared to Win 10. It’s such a chore to work with. The start menu, which is one of the major features of Windows, is a disorganized mess. It looks like an iPhone app menu and you really have to focus to find the app you’re looking for. Or else create folders which require an extra click. Compared to the Win10 menu where you could have big ass tiles and organize them in groups made it really easy to locate and click and you just got used to the location. I could use my Win10 start menu blindfolded.
And let’s talk about the rounded corners and gaps. Win10 has no gaps. No blank spaces. Every piece of pixel real estate is used. And you know exactly what you click on. I can’t say the same about win11.
And going into the settings… Well the settings button is gone from the start menu for one. You gave to right click on start and select it from the context menu. The settings have become harder to find, especially advanced settings.
And finally, my parents installed it on their home PCs. Everything is linked to their Microsoft account and it just collects heaps of data on your usage. Plus the ads. Like, what the fuck Microsoft??? I care about my privacy. I already have a god damn corporate big brother watching and listening to everything in my pocket thanks to my smart phone and every website tracking my every move on the internet. Can I at least have some privacy on my home computer and a break from ads??? Goddamn!
I made a promise that I will never switch to win11 and would rather go Linux full time when Win10 reaches end of life. I’ve been a long time Linux user and already started to easily enjoy gaming in Linux thanks to Steam and proton so there is very little holding me back now.
Windows 11 won’t even run on most of the computers I have and those computers have still got many years of life in them. If they drop support for Windows 10 I guess I’ll go all in on Linux (I just use it for my work machine at the moment).
It’s almost like artificially limiting adoption to all computers made in ~2018 or later would do that. Software TPM 2 has been present in systems since Haswell (~2014) yet even people with Zen 1 Threadrippers got dicked out of “official” upgrade support due to their computer’s age.
Just try Linux, people. I bet at least 1/5 of you would be just fine with the change (I still have to dual boot because of work related stuff).
Ironically, Microsoft is making this the reality more so than Linux/GNU + Valve.
I would very much like to switch (back) to Linux. I used it (and FreeBSD!) 20+ years ago as my daily driver.
Unfortunately, there are a few things that keep me stuck in windows… -Music production. I know Reaper exists (I use it and script for it daily), but my Maschine hardware that I paid good money for won’t run with Linux. And beyond that there’s still a subset of plugins (again, that I’ve paid for) that I’m just not likely to be able to use, and most of that which I can use will be unsupported. -Adobe. Lightroom in particular. Eventually I will wean off this, but as of now, it’s simply the best tool I have to unify all my photography (old and new) across all devices with very, very little friction.
I can find a suitable counterpart for just about everything else I use.
Also, FWIW - I recently revitalized an old laptop with Ubuntu and that’s become a springboard for seeing if I can map out a path to Linux for my other needs.
(Apologies for rant - it’s front of mind for me lately!)
My only interactions with Windows are on company equipment and I eagerly await Win11. By the gods I need tabs in the file explorer. I know there are Win10 solutions but the system is locked down because it is company equipment. And I ain’t got time nor energy for chats with IT/HR.
most people I know are still waiting to upgrade for stability and feature parity with windows 10
Seriously no reason to use it over win10 enterprise iot ltsc 21h2 other than the cpu scheduler in intel 13th gen
I had to tolerate them only because they came with new PC. I needed all sorts of utilities to reverse my taskbar. I want Win7 back
I live in fear that one day IT will tell me my work computer needs to move to 11. Its bad enough I need to spend 1/3rd of my day using Windows, I don’t need it to be Windows+Ads
I both can’t upgrade most of my devices, and have switched to linux on my home pc (in a dualboot with windows still) but use linux mainly. Been pretty nice so far.
Fiivemacs@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
No shit…people don’t want more ads and normal features hidden behind 12 new windows/tabs…
Stop fucking with the os and maybe people will want to continue with it .
pete_the_cat@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yeah, they neglected to mention ads once in that article. I’m pretty sure that’s the reason why no one wants it. I uninstalled it after like 20 minutes upon seeing the ridiculous amount of ads on a fresh install.
Ottomateeverything@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yeah I don’t understand how there’s a whole article of “no one is using it” and the author then states “it’s OK, there’s nothing wrong with it”.
If there’s nothing wrong with it, why is no one using it?
Maybe because 11 is fucking awful. Maybe it’s the ads. Maybe it’s removing fuck tons of features for no apparent reason. Maybe it’s the fucking awful design choices.
But no, the author just says “every decision has haters, people just hate it because it’s different”
p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
I expected more from The Register.