Submitted 1 year ago by L4s@lemmy.world [bot] to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.nysenate.gov/legislation/bills/2023/A8132
NY bill would require a criminal history background check for the purchase of a 3D printer::Requires a criminal history background check for the purchase of a three-dimensional printer capable of creating firearms; prohibits sale to a person who would be disqualified on the basis of criminal history from being granted a license to possess a firearm.
That’s incredibly stupid. Good Lord.
What’s next? CNC machines? Silicone/resin casting supplies? Steel pipes?
Iron ore and carbon
Background checks to buy scrap aluminum or lol… beer?
There was a bill at one point to limit mills and lathes
Screwdrivers, hammers, and automobiles will need a background check and a 30 Day cooling off period.
Lawmakers never cease to amaze me
Is this what the democrats think is important legislation right now?
You can make a firearm in a shitty garage shop way cheaper than the both monetary investment and time investment that comes with using a 3D printer.
People in prisons make improvised fire arms
This is a waste of time.
Eh. With how tribalist American politics has become, it’s usually only a matter of throwing shit to the wall to see what sticks.
This may not stick, but if it does you can bet your sweet ass it will be a primary issue for democrats.
Are these lawmakers aware of the fact you can 3d print a 3d printer? Or at least, about 80% of its parts, and the remaining parts are indistinguishable from the random stuff youd buy at the hardware store? (Aluminum extrusion mostly, some gears, etc)
The only part they could theoretically hope to control worth a damn would be the printing nozzles, which are so incredibly cheap to buy bulk and nearly impossible to specialize.
Also you could take this to court and point out that you would need to also include CNC machines, Laser Cutters, lathes, and any of the other variations of tools that can be used to manufacture a DIY gun.
This isnt a problem specific to 3d printers, a CNC mill that can cut aluminum is also just as capable of producing the jigs needed to manufacture gun parts.
I’d argue a cnc mill makes a hell of a better gun than a 3d printer
It would, but it would also require more expense and skill and the “gun control is pointless because people will just make their own guns” lie works best when you can imply there is minimal cost, experience, effort and risk.
I’d fire a 3D printed gun with a string from about 20’ away.
So the big thing people, including lawmakers, whiff on this is you dont actually 3d print guns. You can 3d print superficial parts like the grip and whatnot, but the actual firing part of the gun is largely not 3d printable.
You can print it, and people have tried, but it usually only lasts 1-2 rounds before it breaks.
However, what you can print that is a huge deal, is the very precise jigs necessary to very easily manufacture the firing mechanisms of the gun, to quite a degree of precision. Then you use a drill or whatever to actually make those metal parts.
Basically, you can easily 3d print a gun maker, and then 3d print all the “extra” parts like grip and whatnot that attach to what you have created, in order to improve it.
Thats the actually serious part, because normally these sorts of jigs need to be extremely precise and are quite difficult to get ahold of. You need a fairly high end CNC machine to make one, or you have to buy it.
But 3d printers, even fairly affordable ones, when fine tuned by hand, do have the necessary precision to print such jigs, which makes them much more accessible for quite cheap… And once you print the jig, it becomes pretty easy to mass produce DIY guns.
You can make a fireable shotgun out of like 15$ of pipe fittings
This is typical of politicians making laws about shit they don’t understand. At all.
Silly. Why can’t we just regulated the sale of ammunition and gunpowder?
Why? It’s not guns and bullets killing people, it’s 3D printing 🙃
We do actually. Just last year new york passed the Concealed Carry Improvement act imposing a background check on ammunition purchases. This bill is completely redundant and unnecessary.
Redundant, you say?
How else are corporations going to limit things like “right to repair” and sales, when people can print their own replacement parts or print stuff they would otherwise have to buy?
Think of the profits! /s
NY is the shining example of the simple creation of a law being enough to entirely extinguish any criminal activity related to it in the entire jurisdiction. This one is so incredibly powerful, in fact, that the very second it goes into effect, the whole state of NY will be unable to cross state lines to acquire said devil boxes, nor even use a VPN to make such a purchase online.
That’s actually an excellent point about sharks that many people don’t realize. I’m petting one right now and it feels like the softest silk.
I’m all for preventative laws if they are good policy. This isn’t good policy.
New York already regulates the sale of ammunition.
Cool. I didn’t know that.
Why can’t we just regulated the sale of ammunition and gunpowder?
Or at least the gun parts needed to make a “3d printed” gun actually function as a firearm.
You can make a completely 3D printed gun that will survive at least one shot. I’m sure if you’re using resin or carbon fiber reinforced plastic so you could probably get more than one shot off.
$$
Oh, did we start requiring criminal background checks for pipes and metal stock too? This is the same problem we’re facing in the rest of the country, everything can be used as a weapon, and requiring background checks on all of them is gonna do nothing to stop gun crime. Regulate the damn guns, that is the only thing that will help.
US: We have a gun problem.
Also, US: We’ve tried everything but regulate guns and we’re all out of ideas!
No you don’t understand. The pro-gun community would support a solution, it just needs to be instantly and 100% effective without inconveniencing a single gun owner or costing anything.
It’s a completely reasonable position and not at all just an excuse to do nothing.
If you follow the link below, you can see a summary of all the gun laws you think New York doesn’t have.
Lol, are you insane? I’m not against better controls, but if you think the US is lacking in gun control laws and regulations you are sorely mistaken.
America isn’t the only country in the world with hardware stores yet is still the only country in the world with weekly mass shootings – 80% of which use legally purchased firearms and 0% of which use home made guns.
0% of which use home made guns
You need to brush up on your propaganda.
Ghost guns have been used in three separate mass shootings in California: Saugus (2019), Tehama County (2017), and Santa Monica (2013). Twelve people, including two teenagers, were killed in these shootings. Dozens more were shot and injured. The Tehama and Santa Monica shooters were prohibited from purchasing firearms, and the Saugus shooter was a minor who, by virtue of his age, was not legally able to possess any firearm under California law.
"I sure am glad this doesn’t happen every week"
You’re getting downvoted to shit on most of your comments but just wanted to say you are not wrong.
You can easily create a firearm with a short length of steel pipe and a nail. I don’t know how this will do anything. Plus people can just drive to another state.
It will be effective in 3d printers gaining attention for having the ability to print firearms
Obviously no respectable criminal would use a pipe gun without a 3d-printed ergonomic handle.
Well then you’ll know what to do when your guns are taken away won’t you?
When you’ve finished building it (and the home made ammo to go in it), don’t forget to post a picture of your new baby to all the pro-gun communities.
I’m sure they’ll all be very jealous of your dogshit “pipe and nail” gun.
I can tell ya havent interacted with the firearms communited too much. Its a lot like the car communited, sure there are quite a few folks who are overcompensating dickbags but there are just as many folks who just like em in generally which means the weirder the more interesting.
If someone could get a steel pipe and a nail to work as a functional firearm that can fire once theyd be respected, if they could get it to fire more than once and consistently there a solid chance theyd become a saint of the firearms community.
That will never happen in the lifetime of anyone who can read these comments. Our gun rights are set in stone and there’s nothing you can ever do about it.
Username checks out.
Can anyone name one crime that has been committed with a 3d printed gun from the last 3 years that hasn’t been committed 100x more often in the last week with a stolen or illegally obtained gun.
Or by legal gun owners, who are responsible for a massive percentage of gun violence, (for example, 80% of all mass shootings).
You know, the same legal gun owners who let their guns get stolen or staunchly oppose closing gun show loopholes or making straw-purchasing more difficult.
I agree with all of your points but have a small nitpick that I really wish people would stop calling it the gun show loophole
The loophole is that private sales (depending on state laws) don’t require a background check (which, to be clear, I disagree with)
But all of those guys with tables set up at the gun show are FFL dealers, buying from them is just like buying from any regular gun shop with all of the normal background checks and other requirements you’d expect in your state.
Now any of the random folks wandering around the show, in theory, could sell you a gun without any background check, but that’s not unique to them being at a gun show, they could do the same from their garage, a Walmart parking lot, a random street corner, a TGI Fridays, etc.
I’m also pretty sure that most, if not all gun shows specifically prohibit those private sales from happening at their events.
Again, I’d like to see the loophole closed, but calling it a gun show loophole just leaves the door open for gun nuts to say “lol, there is no gun show loophole, see you don’t even know what you’re talking about” because there’s really nothing unique about gun shows as it pertains to the law.
Instead i’d say we should refer to it as the private sale loophole or the Brady bill loophole.
80% of mass shootings isn’t a “Massive percentage”, it’s quite small actually
The logic of this is nonexistent. An argument could be made very convincingly that cars are dangerous to allow in the hands of criminals. 2 tons of metal, well known for and capable of ending a life, with the ability to aid criminal enterprises and avoidance of law enforcement. So should car sales now require a criminal background check? All this would do is further disenfranchise convicted felons, regardless of the actual crime committed, and create new difficulties for a group that includes a very high percentage of people already proven to give no shits about the law who will find and exploit ways to continue activities despite any laws attempting to restrict them.
You can’t buy a car in most states without insurance. You can’t get insurance without a license. You cannot get a license… and so on. So that’s not a good example.
Private party car sales have no burden on the seller to verify the buyer has car insurance.
You might not be able to register it without insurance but you can certainly buy it. Plus a significant number of drivers on the road don’t have insurance because they only pay for it long enough to register the car and then never again. There’s a reason those of us with insurance usually have the option for coverage if the other driver doesn’t.
My understanding was that insurance was typically only a prerequisite for operating on public roadways not ownership. So you can drive a car on your own property if you say had a farm without paying for insurance.
I’m not the person you replied to, but it’s an okay comparison. It’s not perfect - 3D printers are way less dangerous than cars - but it conveys the same point.
Like cars and unlike guns, 3D printers are tools. The federal government prevents a convicted felon from owning a gun, but not from driving; generally speaking, states only prohibit this if you were convicted of reckless driving or some other vehicle related offense.
Also, once I have a license I can walk into any car dealer and drive out with a car a couple hours later. This law has an up-to-15 day turn around for the background check and no means of attesting that you are licensed and permitted to purchase a 3D printer without waiting. That’s gonna be a pain for everyone who’s interested in a 3D printer. If my car is taken out of service and I need it to get to work, I can buy another. I don’t have to wait 15 days. If my business involves 3D printing and one of my printers breaks down and needs replaced, having to wait an extra 15 days for a replacement is ridiculous.
If the law said “Felons who were convicted of crimes involving 3D printers may not purchase or own a 3D printer” then that would be more appropriate and closer to how cars are handled.
IMO a more apt comparison would be to other consumer grade tools, like drills, circular saws, etc… Just because I can theoretically make something dangerous with such a tool doesn’t mean the tool needs to be restricted.
Afaik NY doesn’t prohibit felons from buying an “80 percent” Glock frame, a Glock slide, and a Dremel, nor does it prevent them from buying a CNC that can mill a full metal gun. (NJ prohibits the first of those (for everyone) and it’s illegal there to construct a gun at home if you aren’t legally permitted to own one, but that’s harder to enforce.) Either of those legal purchase sets enable you to create a gun at home that’s a much more effective firearm than can be 3D printed. Prohibiting them from buying a 3D printer (when technically even an Ender 3 can print a “gun”) is just silly.
Some stats: in the USA, there were:
this works out to:
Requires a criminal history background check for the purchase of a three-dimensional printer capable of creating firearms
How do you even begin to prove a 3D printer isn’t capable of producing a firearm? Oh, never mind. the law is even worse than I thought.
ANY RETAILER OF A THREE-DIMENSIONAL PRINTER SOLD IN THIS STATE WHICH IS CAPABLE OF PRINTING A FIREARM, OR ANY COMPONENTS OF A FIREARM
the only thing that can stop a bad guy with a printer is a good guy with a printer
Yeah, you can make a firearm with a piece of bamboo (this is basically what the first firearms were). To think you can restrict anyone from making a firearm is insane. You literally wouldn’t be allowed to own anything if the capability of it making parts of a firearm is restricted. Drill press, lathe, and just about any tool should be restricted if that’s the requirement.
It’s ok, you can still buy them privately at a 3D printer show.
You can technically also 3D print a 3D printer.
I’m fine with that, as long as they prevent ANYONE with a white collar crime from owning any assets, right?
That would be fair?
This is just a way to restrict individual freedom from corporate ownership. It’s the equivalent of “for the children”. If you’re against guns don’t fall for this bait, support some other legislation.
How in the hell are they gonna enforce this? Is every kid who baight a 3d printer of ebay now committing a crime?
Lol more regulation for 3d printers than guns themselves
They’ve just got to figure out a way to twist one of the amendments into a shield.
Stupid, authoritarian, and dystopian.
Wow, this makes my country’s nonsense gun laws look sane.
They do know that even children from 70 years ago where making firearms right? newyorkcitygangs.com/?page_id=1708
Democrats have no sense of history otherwise they would have to cancel themselves
Yeah, we have this little thing called a Constitution, might just get in the way
So what will the state of NY do if I buy an Ender-3 in Vermont and then bring it home?
You can always 3d print a 3d printer
This is just “New Media is scary and I’m old!” Fear Mongering
Counter offer: a bill that will limit the purchase of 3D printers to people with a criminal history.
Makes it look like they’re doing something about crime. Doesn’t stop anyone from selling or buying them one, though, does it?
Has anybody actually successfully produced a proper firearm with a 3D printer? Like, one that doesn’t melt after firing a shot? Who are these people who’ve created this nonsensical panic?
In Soviet Russia, access to photocopiers, mimeographs, etc. was restricted to prevent the dissemination of samizdat.
dumb and pointless
LOL
How do they plan to run a background check before I click the “buy” button?
Sounds like the war on general-purpose computation manufacturing
Idiots.
db2@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
A tube capable of firing a projectile isn’t hard to make though. Maybe they should require a criminal history background check to go to the hardware store too.
Jamie@jamie.moe 1 year ago
Sir, do you have a license for that power drill?
PoliticalAgitator@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Classic pro-gun community.
“Why bother fixing gun laws that clearly fail to keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people when you can just 3D print a gun?”
*someone makes a move to stop dangerous people 3D printing guns*
“Why bother preventing dangerous people 3D printing guns when you can just buy a bit of pipe at the hardware store?”
Criminals and domestic terrorists overwhelmingly just go to a store and buy a gun. The pro-gun community is fine with this.
For the minority that can’t, straw purchases, gun show loopholes and poorly secured firearms give them much better access to safer, more reliable guns than 3D printing does. The pro-gun community is fine with this too.
A tiny fraction of crimes involve 3D printed gun parts and I’m not aware of any domestic terrorism to use any. Nevertheless, somebody could in theory print parts for a fully automatic weapon that would potentially be reliable enough for a mass shooting.
So how many crimes are being comitted with a piece of old pipe?
I know self-absorbed, gun-owning, 300lbs men pretending they’d be useful in a militia want to angrily hammer out a comment along the lines of “WHAT ABOUT THAT ASSASSINATION IN JAPAN YOU CUCK”.
But the one example you can cite without googling, from every single country with gun control was clearly dogshit barely worked.
It would be a massive improvement if American criminals were forced to use home made firearms that significantly increased the price, difficulty to obtain and the danger to themselves using it.
But the pro-gun community objects by walking down a list of bullshit excuses because they can’t just say “I’d rather people were shot than I was inconvienced”.
papalonian@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s crazy how the first thing you did was complain about people with premade talking points rushing to brigade a post, yet you’re in here posting walls of text under everyone who is pointing out the logical inconsistencies of banning unregulated 3d printers but not other hardware related purchases.
Even stranger is, I can’t figure out what you’re upset about. You yourself say that only a tiny fraction of gun violence comes from 3d printed weapons, you say you’re against the bill, so why are you getting hostile and making wild, baseless as hominem attacks against people who think it’s a pointless bill?
db2@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
I’m not pro-gun, stupid. I’m pro-thinking which you’re clearly not.
ChrisLicht@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Understood. Are you for or against the proposed NY legislation?
Fedizen@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Not everybody is Shinzo Abe.
deranger@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Don’t you mean Tetsuya Yamagami?
Zron@lemmy.world 1 year ago
But the point is that literally anyone could be.
A simple gun is just a tube with one end closed off. You can make a blackpowder musket for about 30 bucks at a hardware store. They even sell the lighters to set off the charge.
3d printers also make shitty guns, for the most part. Unless you’re paying hundreds of dollars for the rest of the firearm, all your making is the part that holds everything together. If you’re not using real firearm parts, a solid plastic gun is largely useless.
Are they going to require background checks to operate a CNC machine too? Cause that’s probably gonna cripple the manufacturing industry.