[deleted]
No, can we stop striving for constant growth like some bullshit capitalism company and work to make the content and engagement here worth coming for. Growth isn’t everything.
[deleted]
Submitted 1 year ago by Pixelle@lemmy.dbzer0.com to fediverse@lemmy.world
Comments
Phegan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
wokehobbit@lemmy.world 1 year ago
So you want an ultra liberal echo chamber? Got it. Just as bad as the far right. Y’all close minded nutjobs.
tdawg@lemmy.world 1 year ago
In what world is that a logical following of what the other person aid?
retrieval4558@mander.xyz 1 year ago
And009@reddthat.com 1 year ago
It’s all about having a nice community, not the biggest
Kelsenellenelvial@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
The way I see it, the bigger the whole Lemmy community is, the more people can make smaller communities around niche topics. Steady, continuous growth is a good thing. What can be troublesome is rapid/inconsistent growth.
uis@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Degrowth
nurple@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Honestly the biggest long term threat to Lemmy is its technology not being able to keep up with its own success. Issues like bad moderation tools, spam, and fractured communities need to be addressed within the software platform itself.
SchizoDenji@lemm.ee 1 year ago
The model also inherits the biggest potential flaw of reddit, shitty moderators with no means to escalate complaints against their power tripping.
cosmic_slate@dmv.social 1 year ago
There are many flaws against Reddit, but continuing to only harp on the moderation point isn’t productive and might end up backfiring. This isn’t a great argument on the basis of optics as many people are content with how the moderation works.
At best, this argument needs to be refined, for example: “Reddit’s powermod structure led to a limited number of users having more power over community engagement than what seems healthy”.
At worst, this argument gets spread by the type of users who rely on harassment, brigading, and engaging in bad faith, then get understandably reprimanded.
Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
I feel the opposite. If a community is owned by shitty mods, there is usually an alternative with better moderation
veroxii@aussie.zone 1 year ago
I don’t think there really were 54k MAUs in the first place. It took me a few goes to find the right instance for me. Through some fedi drama I’ve had to move “home instance” last month. So last month I probably got counted as 2 MAUs.
But this month I’ve only been using this account.
When lemmy.world was having DDoS issues (are they still?) a lot of people made alts or moved completely and those would all be double counted.
skankhunt42@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Yeah, I have an account on 4 or 5 other servers but I mainly use this one… So there’s ~4 more “inactive” users.
squiblet@kbin.social 1 year ago
I haven't seen lemmy.world down recently.
DocMcStuffin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
There’s going to be ups and downs. I wouldn’t be too concerned right now.
I see the bigger problems being community discoverability, not being able to group communities together, and moderation tools.
Telorand@kbin.social 1 year ago
This. All of this. It's fine if the goal is to let the active communities bubble to the top organically, but that doesn't mean much if people can't easily find them.
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Have them all in like a tag system. So I can see all subs related to technology, etc.
Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
Kichae@kbin.social 1 year ago
community discoverability, [...], and moderation tools
Those are big. But so is the lack of smooth interoperability with Mastodon. There's a large population using Mastodon right now that could be participating in threaded discussions here, who are just totally blind to the space, and those that do engage have a super jankey experience.
And on top of that, it's also a super jankey experience on the Lemmy end when Mastodon users engage.
Hopefully things get better on that front once Mastodon has implemented groups.
not being able to group communities together
I honestly see this being a continued expectation to be a bigger issue. Two communities with the same name on different servers could be very different spaces. Giving users the ability to group them together homogenizes them in a way that is likely bad for the ecosystem overall.
Like, it's fine to have federated or merged communities, but I think that power needs to be in mods and/or admins hands, not end users.
DocMcStuffin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I honestly see this being a continued expectation to be a bigger issue. Two communities with the same name on different servers could be very different spaces. Giving users the ability to group them together homogenizes them in a way that is likely bad for the ecosystem overall.
I see the issue, but I still see the tradeoff as being worth it. Right now, if I want to browse technology commies I have to click into each one I’m subbed to. This means I’m going to go the to biggest one first, then second biggest, and so forth. This pretty much favors the big commies over the small ones because this is just annoying to the end user. Grouping gives those smaller ones a better chance of appearing in someone’s feed thus spreading out activity over a larger part of the lemmy fediverse.
Blaze@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
There’s a large population using Mastodon right now that could be participating in threaded discussions here, who are just totally blind to the space, and those that do engage have a super jankey experience.
I sometimes post to Lemmy communities from Firefish, and have Mastodon users replying. The interaction seems okay, there are a few improvements points but not so bad overall.
mojo@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Lemmy still has a lot of development to go and is missing crucial features for mass adoption. Especially moderation and safety is a huge one. It’s also still big enough that we’re able to stabilize ourselves and have consistently entertaining content. Sadly not much niche stuff, which also has to do with Lemmy development including an improvement to show lesser active communities in your feed like Reddit does.
rip_art_bell@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I just want an option to “hide downvoted posts” like reddit had…
mojo@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I wish scores were hidden by default. It’d prevent a lot of the band wagoning that is super prevalent on Reddit style sites
figaro@lemdro.id 1 year ago
I’ve been using Lemmy since June, and… I’m really curious. Has there been any developments since then, in terms of actual platform features? (Not saying anything about the .world server devs, they are fantastic)
mojo@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Not much lol
xantoxis@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I don’t know why everyone is even assuming there’s some specific reason for this. At 54k MAU we had a lot of people trying it out to see if they liked it. Inevitably, lots will not like it. It’s still going to be a massive increase over, say, 1 year ago.
Early growth is always spiky.
figaro@lemdro.id 1 year ago
Correct. If year over year change is negative though, then that might be an issue.
hamid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
[deleted]herrvogel@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well I kinda care. Right now lemmy is kinda… boring? The content variety is very limited and the alternatives to the niche communities I enjoy(ed) on reddit are mostly just barren deserts. That’s all because of the rather small and relatively homogenous user base. It’s a bit too echo chamber-y too.
pacology@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Do we really need more people here? There are no investors to appease or advertisers to swindle.
Unlimited growth should be a metric we should chase over other stuff like engagement on posts, quality of submissions, etc.
nurple@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yes. There are innumerable topics and interests that don’t have a robust presence on Lemmy yet because the platform is just too small and niche. Lemmy is great for tech and tech-adjacent stuff but I still wander back to Reddit from time to time for sports, for instance.
CoderKat@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I still use Reddit to read episode discussions of TV shows and such. Those largely don’t exist here, outside of a handful of shows. And probably would struggle to take off even if the threads existed, as they need a lot of people and good SEO.
krayj@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
If you think the only topics of conversation we need are Politics, World News, & Technology, then we don’t need more people here.
Personally, I don’t like having to keep going back to Reddit for everything else. For other communities to be successful on Lemmy, we need about 2 orders of magnitude more users.
Are you content to have meaningful activity in just a small handful of generic topics? I’m not.
So, yes, we really do need more people here. A LOT more.
Corgana@startrek.website 1 year ago
There is an argument to be made that a diversity of perspectives increases overall quality, and a diversity of perspectives is only achievable when growth is beyond a certain point.
That said, Lemmy (the software) just isn’t ready for anything approaching Reddit-sized audiences yet, so I think you’re absolutely right that growth should only be a goal right now inasmuch as it enables existing communities to flourish.
1984@lemmy.today 1 year ago
You won’t have diversity of perspectives here… Entire instances are defederating rather than deal with all the different opinions.
Also downvoting means only popular opinions at the top.
Blamemeta@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Diversity of perspectives? This place is about left wing politics.
It’d be nice to have some good hobby communities, but lemmy doesn’t want a diversity of perspectives.
yildo@kbin.social 1 year ago
You might not need exponential growth, but you do want a certain critical mass of activity for each of a variety of topics
Ignacio@kbin.social 1 year ago
Too many fascists harassing, bullying and arguing in bad faith have this effect too.
awwwyissss@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I’ve had a way bigger problem here with extremist communists, but I hate both equally.
DarkThoughts@kbin.social 1 year ago
I clash with both but blocking all the Lemmy.ml communities was a good start of filtering a huge chunk of them out. Doesn't help that the mods absolutely do not care there.
LarryTheMatador@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Thats why my blocklist runneth over. I think of it like playing duck-hunt on ye olde nintendo. Hence I dont see alot of fash on here and when I do its for like 7/10s of a second.
Lauchs@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I really wish we could share blocklists or something.
CookieJarObserver@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Lemmy is already past the failure possibility line, we are already to many to not grow over time. Please remember that this numbers don’t represent accurately as we have many spam bots that get banned and instances take measures against bots in general.
Also some short term loss is normal, as long as the actually active people don’t leave entirely (like from reddit)
AbouBenAdhem@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The pattern I see in MAU is periodic surges of new users, followed by a leveling-off decay that eventually amounts to about half of the new users.
How does that compare to other platforms?
1984@lemmy.today 1 year ago
I see mostly memes, maybe that’s why its losing interest. I’m on here less now too.
spaduf@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
I think the big question here is still where we land. It could easily be somewhere in the 20-30k range.
JokeDeity@lemm.ee 1 year ago
What’s MAU?
Pixelle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
[deleted]JokeDeity@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Oh. I wouldn’t stress too much. Reddit is still shit and you still can’t use 3rd party apps conveniently, so I think in time it’ll fizzle.
rip_art_bell@lemmy.world 1 year ago
monthly active users I would guess
gastationsushi@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This would be bad if lemmy had a board trying to push an IPO.
khalic@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is how the universe deals with big numbers kid, ebb and flow
dipshit@lemmy.world 1 year ago
very concerning. time to shut the whole thing down.
centof@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I can’t help but wonder if this is partly driven by the increase in using lemmy from a mobile app, which imo can tend to dumb down the content on lemmy.
Tranus@programming.dev 1 year ago
" dumb it down"? Isn’t the mobile app (s) displaying the same posts as the website(s)?
centof@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Yes, it shows the same posts, but if I am interacting via a phone without a physical keyboard it is harder to make in depth posts and include things like links to external websites than it is with a phone. Basically a phone user is in general more likely to make shorter replies and interact with memes and short form content more. I guess I am assuming that phone users have a shorter attention spans since it often seems to be the case.
cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
[deleted]Qwertzwertz@lemmynsfw.com 1 year ago
What is non-niche by your definition?
Wiz@midwest.social 1 year ago
Probably better stats across the entire Fediverse can be found here:
Comment105@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Nobody seriously expects Lemmy to last that much longer than Voat and similar “alternatives”.
Pixelle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
[deleted]The_Mixer_Dude@lemmus.org 1 year ago
Not the guy you are asking but I think I could give some insight. I don’t think it’s going to “fail” in every regard but it’s going to decline significantly and become an echo chamber for the extremeist types that are driving everyone away. After all the more reasonable and normal active types have left the extremists will likely turn on each other over very minute details that don’t exactly correlate to their specific world view and it will likely turn into an all out brawl.
That being said Reddit is very likely to pull more stupid anti-user bullshit and send a few more waves of users to Lemmy and spike the numbers some more at which point hopefully has all their mod tools figured out and communities get solved to actually allow for niches to be usable.
The success of Lemmy lies entirely on a perfect timing of Reddit fucking up again before the infighting becomes too bad and people returning to Reddit warn people away from going to lemmy
squiblet@kbin.social 1 year ago
Well, that’s not true. The situation is nothing like Voat. Sites that are self-contained without open source software: yes, I expect those to close down within a year or two.
DarkThoughts@kbin.social 1 year ago
I do see a severe lack of moderation in the Fediverse though. Everywhere are extremistic views being spewed by far right & far left users and mods don't give a shit, even after reporting those people. Insults stay, conspiracy bullshit stays, pure bigotry stays, the most heinous hate stays, and more importantly those corresponding accounts stay.
It really makes me want to use it less and less. I already blocked Lemmy.ml instances but it's such a widespread issue in many of the largest communities. If you combine that with the already pretty low engagement on those various platforms then I don't really see the point anymore.
centof@lemm.ee 1 year ago
It kinda makes sense that mastodon (open source twitter) would have less of a drop than lemmy if you factor in Musk’s recent twitter changes.
squiblet@kbin.social 1 year ago
I read that as it jumped by 25%, 500,000 users.
cosmic_slate@dmv.social 1 year ago
I raised a somewhat controversial concern earlier this week in this community about substantive content that makes Lemmy feel — forgive me fediverse gods — boring.
Being globally distributed is a brilliant technology goal but more focus needs to be placed on the human/community aspect. In many ways, I respect the efforts some moderation efforts have helped guide this so far.
Being a stronger online forum with meaningful discussion will help smooth over a lot of software issues.
ryathal@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
A big part of having more substantial discussions is just having more people. 40k is a good number for active shit posting and stupid jokes, it’s way to small to have a community about hobbies or even most major metro areas. You need at least 2-3x more people active to at least start to get moderately specialized communities like pro sports. For something really niche, you probably need at least a million MaU.
cosmic_slate@dmv.social 1 year ago
cwagner@lemmy.cwagner.me 1 year ago
imaqtpie@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Specifically, what have I done that you take such issue with? Or if there is another admin you’d like to criticize, go ahead and speak your piece.
I’d hate people to get the wrong idea about Lemmy admins, whom I have found to be largely selfless and altruistic in their actions and motivations.
awwwyissss@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I’ve found exactly the opposite. I essentially dismissed concerns about Lemmygrad and political extremism, now I’ve come to see it as the biggest threat to the fediverse.
I use it less and would be embarrassed for others to find out I use it in case they saw Lemmygrad/Hexbear content.
PaperTowel@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I totally agree, I’ve found Lemmy to also be quite boring, my feed consistents of 90% memes and politics. With nearly nothing about my more niche hobbies.