Neuralink’s human trials volunteers ‘should have serious concerns,’ say medical experts

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• FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Anyone doing anything with Elon Musk should have serious concerns.

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• Ryantific_theory@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Yeah, I mean we’ve been working on brain implants of various stripes for a couple decades now, and they’re not the first to attempt motor cortex implants for paralyzed patients as a method to begin human trials, but the current state of the art for brain implants is honestly pretty… primitive. There’s no good way to avoid damaging neurons, so it’s mainly a focus on not causing too much damage while fine mapping and targeting has to be done on an individual basis.

  Implants are hugely useful, and arguably the current state of the art treatment for several conditions (epilepsy and parkinsons), but we’re so far out from computer brain interfaces being useful for anything outside of dire medical needs that it’s kinda surprising they’re pushing ahead when they had so much trouble with their experimental subjects.

  I worked in a brain imaging lab in college, and we had a couple of chimpanzees with brain implants that did daily research protocols. Bastards were better than me at the testing regimen, and other than some minor discomfort (water intake is restricted prior to the tests so that the gatorade reward was more attractive), they were large children that could tear your face off if they got angry. Once they got older, they would have surgery to remove the implants and retire to a primate ranch where they just got to live out the rest of their life. All of the grad students there had been working with the same chimps for years, so it’s a little alarming Neuralink had so many issues.

  It doesn’t exactly engender confidence.

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  • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    What’s really sad is hearing how they treated them. Considering how intelligent they are, I find it disgusting that they treated them so bad they all died. It’s not worth a bunch of sentient creatures lives to do experiments like this and then just throw them away.

    At least your lab was treating them with dignity.

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    • Ryantific_theory@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Yeah, in academia getting approval for primate research projects is a huge process where you need to clarify every aspect of the protocol, housing, care, and experimental operations to submit before the project can start. I’m less sure if it’s voluntary or required, but we had funding allocated for their retirement from the start. They’re smart enough and strong enough that I’d be terrified to work with unhappy and unwell primates.

      Not that all research projects are have happy endings, but I don’t think corporate research has the same restrictions and oversight that academic research does, given that this even happened. I’m pretty accepting of the necessity of primate research models, but we should be doing everything we can to treat them as best we can. Withdrawing a subject from the experimental protocol should be preferred over letting an infection fester just because the implant is in the way. Just seems really poorly done on their part.

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    • spirinolas@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      If it makes you feel any better, they’d treat humans the same way if they could.

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• TallonMetroid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Didn’t Neuralink fail animal testing? Something about most of their monkeys dying from the trials? How did this get to human testing?

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  • Zron@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Kinda like how Elon promised a mars colony by 3 years ago, and his big rocket exploded on its first flight a few months ago.

    Or how full self driving has been ready “next year” for the passed 5 years.

    Hyperloop was going to revolutionize transportation, by having a train in a vacuum tunnel, and is currently an abandoned tube in the desert.

    The boring company was going to create high speed car tunnels under cities, and it’s test track is a 30mph traffic jam, but now underground.

    Solar city was going to put solar tiles in place of your shingles and offset your power usage, but the demo musk showed was an actual fraud, and there were no solar panels.

    Last but not least, spaceX promised “rapidly reusable rockets” with a 10x decrease in cost to low earth orbit. The fastest turn around they’ve ever had was a month or so, about as long as the space shuttles’ fastest turn around. The falcon 9 still costs between 50 to 60 million per launch, even if it’s a reused booster or not, and the space shuttle was capable of taking crew and cargo/payload at the same time, while the falcon can only take one or the other.

    Musk companies have a long history of promising the moon and delivering playground sand. Don’t buy any of his products and don’t fall for his “saving humanity” bullshit. He’s just a conman who’s defrauding investors for billions.

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    • Mirshe@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Musk has since come out and all but stated Hyperloop was specifically funded and hyped ONLY to kill mass transit initiatives in the area. It was a total vaporware project, they never intended to solve anything.

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    • romkube@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      To be fair, SpaceX cost of 50-60 million per launch is almost a 10x drop in price, ULA is around 400-500 million per rocket. And since they have next to no competition on price, they have no incentive to lower it. It’s just business.

      And don’t bring the broken vehicle the shuttle turned out to be into this. A great vehicle on paper, but with to many cooks. The shuttle era gave us the ISS, but is cost us almost all activity outside of LEO.

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  • garretble@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    There an article in Wired just this week I think about how horrid the experiments on the animal were.

    Musk, of course, lied again saying the monkeys were old and going to be euthanized anyway. They were young, and the experiments were terrible for them — where they were clawing at their heads trying to remove the devices. Some had literal screws coming loose.

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    • Bagel5941@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Reading this story I decided to boycott everything related to Elon Musk.

      Additional veterinary reports show the condition of a female monkey called “Animal 15” during the months leading up to her death in March 2019. Days after her implant surgery, she began to press her head against the floor for no apparent reason; a symptom of pain or infection, the records say. Staff observed that though she was uncomfortable, picking and pulling at her implant until it bled, she would often lie at the foot of her cage and spend time holding hands with her roommate.

      Animal 15 began to lose coordination, and staff observed that she would shake uncontrollably when she saw lab workers. Her condition deteriorated for months until the staff finally euthanized her. A necropsy report indicates that she had bleeding in her brain and that the Neuralink implants left parts of her cerebral cortex “focally tattered.”

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  • Zetta@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Neural link did not “fail” animal testing. It got FDA approval which actually means animal testing was a success.

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• grte@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I’m going to go ahead and not have something with the build quality of a Tesla attached to my brain, thanks.

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  • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Maybe Musk has a malfunctioning Neuralink chip in his brain. Would explain a lot.

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  • just_change_it@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’m not dumb enough to be interested in a first generation brain implant, but surely someone is.

    That being said the car thing is a bunch of bullshit. Separate OTA software patches from physical drive-the-car-to-a-dealership recalls and get back to me on the real “recall” count.

    I’m not really interested in driving a full electric car (hybrids seem to be the sweet spot until we find better batteries) but people cling to arbitrary metrics for all kinds of criticism in a red vs blue or console war fashion to proclaim why their chosen product is better. It’s so asinine. All of the electronic systems in modern cars have issues because all software has issues. The ones that are the worst are the ones with no OTA patching, of which there are many.

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• nodsocket@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  This is a publicity stunt to get more funding. They are going to get some volunteers, but they won’t ever get the implants. Neuralink will just keep delaying the procedure by a year and then cancel it once the public stops paying attention.

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  • nosurprises@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This is a publicity stunt to get more funding.

    It would be if the FDA hadn’t approved this. This is the most puzzling part.

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    • nodsocket@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I don’t see Neuralink taking the legal risk, regardless of what the FDA says. The approval is part of the publicity stunt IMO.

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  • Zetta@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think you are hating simply because musk, they have FDA approval. People are going to get this implant in their brain, and if I remember I’ll come back here and send you a message that you were wrong when it happens.

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    • prole@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Did you see the article about what they did to those monkeys?

      Any human that allows this half-baked shit near them in it’s current state should be terrified.

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    • ClockworkOtter@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      FDA approval ain’t evidence that something is safe. See the recent approvals for anti-Alzheimers meds that have a terrible side-effect to benefit ratio.

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    • ikidd@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      So you’re worried the implant will affect your memory. Got it.

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    • Son_of_dad@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I hope you sign up

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  • Blackmist@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    “Hey, I’ve Seen This One!”

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  • Zetta@mander.xyz ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Hey dumbshit, I just wanted to drop by and let you know you were so wrong and it only took a few months to prove you wrong.

    npr.org/…/elon-musk-neuralink-implant-clinical-tr…

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• kaotic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Elon’s going to try putting your memories behind a paywall.

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  • designatedhacker@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Why let you have your memories at all? Each day you remember the doctored history of a happy employee. You’re excited for another day of peak productivity with a short break for your favorite meal (the only food you’re aware of): Soylent green. Hey where’s Steve today… who’s Steve… better get back to work.

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    • Wogi@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Hey that’s an episode of Stargate

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  • Exatron@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Memories if you’re lucky. He’d try to put all autonomic functions behind a paywall.

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    • Thaumiel@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Your free trial has expired. Click here to buy the ATP cycle pack for 84.99/mo!

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  • Reality_Suit@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Acephale horror podcast has a story about buying people’s memories. But what if they take more than they’re supposed to? Would you even know?

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• n3cr0@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I imagine advertisements being streamed into the user’s dreams, turning them into remote controlled zombies and causing mental breakdowns.

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  • AnonStoleMyPants@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Can’t wait to need an ad blocker in my brain.

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    • elbarto777@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Should I go with NeuroFirefox or NeuroPihole?

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  • dxc@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    That’s a good Futurama episode! Oh wait

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  • swnt@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Sounds like a black mirror episode - if it weren’t actually possible reality…

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  • spirinolas@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    “Your subscription is about to expire. Serotonin will be blocked until you renew it. Please, select automatic renewal to avoid unwanted depression or suicide. Thanks fpr choosing our services. Fuck you, pay us.”

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  • Papanca@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Or maybe they become little Elon copies

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• Superfool@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I think any person signing up for this Black-Mirror storyline is by definition a vulnerable person.

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• inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Should but if musk fans want to put their brains in the hands of right-wing moron that’s running his companies into the ground, week who am I to argue with their logic.

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  • Chunk@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    An aside, it’s so fucking easy to become a right wing idol. You literally just say the talking points and now you’re part of the gang! It literally is that easy.

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  • sebinspace@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Natural selection at work

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• 1984@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Mark Zuckerberg was surprised that all those dumb fucks trusted him, and Elon must be thinking the same right about now.

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  • neutron@thelemmy.club ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Don’t know if they’re stupid, but probably misled and very desperate enough to bet on an invasive experimental treatment messing with your brain from ‘some guy’ with ‘good enough publicity’.

    I hope they all read about Animal 15 before actually agreeing.

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• phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Neuralink will have all participants sign a waiver stating they know about the risks of death, etc etc. People will just sign and ignore all that because Elon!

  Never mind that he’s an incompetent scammer.

  Maybe we should force the participants to go on an exploration trip to the Titanic before they can join…

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  • plantedworld@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Waivers can’t totally exonerate someone from all harm caused

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• ohlaph@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Want to use your senses? Pay a small fee…

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  • teegus@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Motor functions only $299 for the first three months**

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    • FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Otherwise known as Neuralink Blue.

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• LillyPip@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Oh shit, you don’t say?

  Fucking lol. LOL.

  I can’t stress this enough: LOL

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  • Why9@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Make people desperate enough and then offer them shady stuff like this.

    They’ll do it.

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• FireWire400@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I think Elon should go first

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• Teal@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If Mr. X is so confident in Neuralink he should be first in line.

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• Illuminostro@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Musk is a transhumanist who is trying to figure out how to transfer his consciousness into one of his brood, or into a machine.

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• ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I won’t even consider investing until “The Man Himself” gets one.

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  • KaiReeve@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    But they were all of them deceived, for another chip was made. In the land of Texas, in the labs of Neuralink, the Dark Lord Elon forged in secret, a master chip, to control all others.

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    • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      In poems, press Enter twice
      to create a stanza splice.↲↲

      End a line with double space␣␣↲ where a line break should take place.

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    • ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I get it, he won’t be getting an ad-sponsored or cheaply made version. The concern is safety, and it will be for a while.

      Maybe Elon has a malfunctioning chip in his brain already, which would explain a lot. Anyone seen him getting seizures?

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• Spacebar@lemmy.world [bot] ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Darn, a Musk article got through my anti Twitter, anti Musk Sync for Lemmy filter. Time to ass Neuralink to it.

  Ifs been glorious weeks since I saw Musk on Lemmy.

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  • stebo02@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    idk man his stupid face always makes me happy

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  • swag_money@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    gotta tighten up those filters homie. musk talk is brain-rotting

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• watson387@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Imagine having a button you could use to make people shit their pants on demand.

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• doublejay1999@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Lol they aren’t the type have ‘concerns’ . They would get in the bus to Mars TOMORROW.

  I wanna posit an extension to Dunning Kruger - something that describes the phenomena whereby rational, moderately educated individuals don’t really understand the full potential of Maximum Stupid

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• popemichael@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Having to pay a monthly payment to access a childhood memory would suck

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  • Mdotaut801@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’m cool if a lot of my childhood is behind a paywall.

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• watson387@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Do you really think so, medical expert? lol

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• warmaster@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Where the fuck is John Connor when de need him.

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• Abnorc@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  “If you’re interested in an additional sixty dollars, flag down a test associate and let 'em know. You could walk out of here with a hundred and twenty weighing down your bindle if you let us take you apart, put some science stuff in you, then put you back together good as new.“

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• Fafner@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I don’t think this isgoing to have much success, anyone that volunteers for this is braindead already

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  • tabular@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Or they are desperate. People who voluntee need/needed help long ago.

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