Can’t females develop antibodies that destroy the sperm?
Evolutionary skill issue
She is making a GREAT point
Submitted 5 months ago by Mickey7@lemmy.world to [deleted]
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/54b37d82-88b2-4dff-872c-c83960446c94.png
Comments
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world 5 months ago
SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Preventing conception would be a genetic trait that evolution selects against.
A woman with your theoretical anti-conception genetic mutation would not reproduce, so this mutation dies out immediately.
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world 5 months ago
But an antibody they can dispatch on a whim, rather than automatically
qaatloz@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Not really…
On the biological level it is trying to stop millions of sperm-cells to sneak in or prevent one egg-cell from being available. In the numbers game it is less risky and more reliable to make the one cell unavailable then to try to prevent the millions from being viable. Even if you shut 99.99% of them down, you still have more risk than having 99.99% chance of preventing the one cell being available.
I’m afraid that however we want the world to be equal for man and women, the biology itself is unfair and needs a lot more time and research if you want to equalize that.
Or use the tie-off snipsnip solution. It is a bit more permanent, but is pretty reliable in preventing.
Paddzr@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Can we use proper terminology? Vasectomy is pretty much permanent. Low chance of reverting it and its also likely won’t be available for free.
I’ve done it, no regrets and if someone is “done” with having kids? No brainer.
I’ve seen how my wife is affected by even the less intrusive options. They ALL suck. That’s what we should talk about. Female contraception has downsides. Even the copper coil has side effects. Anything with hormones? Forget it, the side effects from those could be permanent.
I went full circle. Honestly, condoms truly are the best protection available. We were young, we didn’t like them, no one does. But beats having to deal with the alternatives.
kadaverin0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
I’ve never wanted children and got a vasectomy in my early 30s. I think a lot of men don’t do this because they have this cartoonish belief that it makes them less of a man to shoot blanks or the erroneous belief that they’re family lineage is so god damned important that they’re obligated to continue it.
1rre@discuss.tchncs.de 5 months ago
Or they just don’t know if they’ll want to raise children later…
Sure you could say they should adopt, but they may see some value in the experience of supporting their partner as they go through childbirth in forming a bond to the child.
FreddiesLantern@leminal.space 5 months ago
Alright men here’s what we do:
1: Once you had your kid(s), if you want to have them someday, get snipped. It’s no big deal and you’ll both be A LOT more relaxed.
2: Don’t be a fucking rapist.
Why tf are we talking about the pills thing.
okmko@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Guys should really be the primary ones to enforce it on other guys like this. It’s sad that girls end up dealing with the brunt of it.
Iambus@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Lol this is so dumb
WhatGodIsMadeOf@feddit.org 5 months ago
What is this weird ass template with the creepy people in the background?
Angelevo@feddit.nl 5 months ago
The funny thing is, we have the options. It is a matter of choosing to use them. More options always better, solutions already exist.
Devjavu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 months ago
I think if I busted a nut 9 times a day, I would just simply just vanish.
LAN_Mower@lemmybefree.net 5 months ago
I’m the number one Gamer on World of Warcraft. Now what?
AnitaAmandaHuginskis@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Lemmy is left but also male, according to the salty responses lol
mika_mika@lemmy.world 5 months ago
That’s not true … there are also trans women here.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 5 months ago
How many ‘man bad’ posts do we need?
manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
I always end up so dissapointed by comments on lemmy, but you know
men should wear condoms, it’s not that complicated, and they help prevent spreading STI
p.s. get an sti test
REDACTED@infosec.pub 5 months ago
How does this unscientific instagram vomit has 500 votes on lemmy? Are we turning into reddit?
pipe01@programming.dev 5 months ago
This is literally the shitpost community
Paddzr@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Always have been. Down to hivemind downvoting in several places here.
Lemmy was advertised as reddit alternative, so it’s exactly what we asked for. I came here during that wave too. So yeah, I’m part of the problem.
jali67@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
Because it sounds good to people that never made it beyond high school level biology or bothers to search things
iconic_admin@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I’m pretty sure the birth control pill is for women because that was easy to do. A pill for men has been tried several times and they still don’t exist yet.
BCsven@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Yeah, and me taking a man pill doesn’t stop the lady getting pregnant if some other guys didn’t bother to take it. It does make sense for the woman to protect herself from douchebags
thethirdobject@lemmy.world 5 months ago
correction: easy to do *if you don’t care about side-effects or undermine the population taking said pill when they tall about the huge impact on their life the reason the pill for men "has been tried several times and still doesn’t exist isn’t because it’s that much harder, but because it’s harder to do with minimal side-effects the impact the pill had on generations of women is massive and completely underestimated today still
Casino2306@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
They just don’t care about the side effects for their “property”.
howrar@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Let’s say you save exactly one pill and it works on anyone. Also assume 100% pregnancy rate, so if you are paired with someone and neither have the pill, then it’s an automatic pregnancy. Our goal is to minimize number of pregnancies.
- “Max promiscuity”: Say we have a complete bipartite matching. if it’s given to a male, then no pregnancies have been prevented since every other male can impregnate every female. If it’s given to a female, then it reduces the number of pregnancies by 1 since none of the males can impregnate her.
- “Traditional”: Say we have a bijective matching (i.e. each male is paired with exactly one female, and vice versa). Then the pill can be given to anyone and it will always reduce the number of pregnancies by 1.
- “The Harem”: Say we have a matching where males have more than one pairing but females have at most one pairing each. In this case, giving the pill to the male with the largest number of pairings will reduce pregnancies by however many pairings they have.
- “Reverse Harem”: Same scenario as above but flip male and female. Giving the pill to any female will have the same effect of reducing pregnancies by 1. Giving it to a male will have no effect.
- “The Cliques”: The population is split into disjoint graphs, but each of these disjoint graphs are complete (bijective) bipartite graphs. In this case, if the pill is given to a male, then it will only have an effect if that male only has a single pairing, thereby reducing pregnancies by exactly 1. Otherwise, there will be no reduction in pregnancies. If given to a female, then it will always reduce pregnancies by exactly 1.
As far as I’m aware, the real world operates most like a mixture of “Traditional” and “Cliques”. At least, in places where birth control is an option. But in the real world, we have more than one pill.
If we have enough for either all males or all females, then the effect is the same regardless of who gets the pill. It will always lead to 100% pregnancy reduction.
Let’s say we have enough pills for all but one male, or all but one female.
- “Max promiscuity”: If the pill is given to the males, then we still have one male that can impregnate everyone, so there will be no reduction in pregnancies. If given to females, then you will end up with exactly one pregnancy.
- “Traditional”: As before, there’s no difference. Any decision will lead to reducing pregnancies to exactly 1.
- “The Harem”: giving to all the males except the one with the smallest number of pairings will reduce pregnancies to however many pairings that one male has (more than 1). If given to females, then it will reduce it to exactly 1.
- “Reverse Harem”: Giving it to the males will reduce pregnancies to exactly 1 since they’re only in 1 pairing. Giving it to females will also reduce it to exactly 1.
- “The Cliques”: if given to the males, then it will only make a difference if there exists a clique with exactly one male. It will reduce pregnancies by the largest number of females in a clique with a single male. If given to females, then it always reduces pregnancies to exactly 1.
So with the goal of minimizing pregnancies, it either makes no difference or is optimal to have the pill on women (unless you’re in a harem). This is highly reductive though. We have many other considerations when deciding who should get access to birth control.
Axolotl_cpp@feddit.it 5 months ago
Upvote for the dedication in writing this reply
Crackhappy@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I applaud your dedication to this thought.
howrar@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
I needed to know if there was any validity to the claim. And if I’m doing the work anyway, I might as well share it.
A_Chilean_Cyborg@feddit.cl 5 months ago
Condoms?
IndridCold@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Those also protect both people from possible other hidden cooties.
dan69@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I was told that female trees are rare in American lands, eg suburbs. Found that out!!
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
how about we just learn to pull out.
discosnails@lemmy.wtf 5 months ago
Man I keep seeing you around with the worst takes. Even for a troll it’s just sad.
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
im not trolling though. just pull out.
wampus@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Nah, this isn’t a great point at all… even at face value really.
Put slightly differently, if we’re assuming people sleep around as much as the text implies, if we focus on birth control solely for men, then one ‘failure’/non-controlled man would result in a ton of pregnancies. If the onus is on women, then one ‘failure’/non-controlled woman would result in one pregnancy.
skisnow@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
It doesn’t stand up on its own terms on other levels as well.
Even the most cynical misandrist interpretation of how research is funded would still lean towards men being given the agency on whether sex lead to pregnancy.
Tattorack@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Excuse me, but birth control is not just a pill, it’s the entire process that includes putting on a condom. And it’s expected of guys to use condoms.
Besides that, there are pills and procedures a guy can do as birth control.
callyral@pawb.social 5 months ago
The one who gets pregnant should probably take the birth control, as pregnancy would be more bothersome for them than for the other person.
Bennyboybumberchums@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Counter point, all men are rapists(according to the wisdom of the internet). Therefore, birth control is protection against the onslaught of unwanted semen that comes from all the endless rape.
Or, if you arent a perpetually online moron, birth control allows women to control their reproduction. Its a symbol of liberation and freedom for women, who can now enjoy sex at their want without worry of pregnancy.
In over words, shes making a shit point. This is like all the clueless cunts moaning about women in short skirts in Star Trek, not realising the the mini skirt was a symbol of sexual liberation for the time.
fodor@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
Have you looked up sexual assault or rape rates in your community or country? It is definitely a high enough number to scare a normal person. Probably many of those crimes are repeat offenders, but that doesn’t help the victims.
There’s another question that I don’t think you can answer. How often do women close to you talk about this subject? And if they never have, then maybe there’s a good reason for it. Because we can find the above data and we know that people around us have gone through some horrible stuff.
Bennyboybumberchums@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Yes I have. But Im betting that you havent. To be clear, I never said it wasnt a problem. Its just not the problem that internet makes it out to be. Often we see morons using stats from African countries, where rape gangs are frequent, to justify saying “all men” in the US are pricks who rape women.
As for women talking to me about things. As long as you dont come at me like I raped you, or pushing some sexist ideal that “all men” are rapists, a conversation is fine to be had. If want me just to sit there and nod my head while you push some twoxchromosomes like up my arse, the answer will be “nah, Im good.”.
In the US, 1.9 million women are raped every year. Im sure you’ll agree, thats far too many. There are over 170 million women and girls in the US right now. As for sexual assaults, thats 480,000 a year. Out of over 170 million. Yes, we both wish that the number were zero. But no, I dont agree that women should be scared. Accord to RAINN, there is a 0.6 to 0.7% chance that a woman will be raped in her lift time. The risk of being in a car crash at least once in your life, is 84%. Shall we start making some shit about cars now???
The problem with people like you, is you make enemies where you did have any to start with. We can all agree that no woman should ever be raped or forced to endure an assault of any kind. But instead, you want to make it about how awful “men” are, and how you cant even walk the streets at night without being assaulted. Which is also bullshit, as only 10% of rapes happen because of strangers attacking women on the street. No, women are just as safe as men walking the streets at night, safer in fact, as we get attacked FAR more frequently. No, a womans real issue with rape and sexually assault happens when she gets home. Fathers, uncles, brothers, husbands, boyfriends, are all in that 90% bracket. So walk the streets ladies, it would seem that you dont have to worry about anything until you get home…
See how annoying that is?
1985MustangCobra@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
“onslaught”. im sorry for whatever country you live in where women are raped multiple times a day.
livingcoder@programming.dev 5 months ago
Women still need access to birth control in order to remain autonomous, but this is a great point.
Jarix@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Sex not gender.
And no she isn’t
Rooty@lemmy.world 5 months ago
It’s easier to prevent ovulation of one egg than stop a billion sperm cells from reaching their destination. Stop politicising biology.
causepix@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
Uh, it’s been done. Multiple times.
First was this one back in 2016, but the caveat was that it had the same number of side effects as women’s birth control. Since the patient being prescribed isn’t the one who will experience negative health outcomes without the medications, the harm of those side effects was deemed by researchers (not the patients themselves) to be greater than the risk of impregnating someone else.
Other hornonal options have come out since then, though not on the consumer market, like this hormonal gel and this pill.
More recently its been done without hormones by blocking a vitamin A metabolite that signals the production of sperm.
You’re the one “politicising biology” by using it to dismiss this out of hand without even the most basic level of research or respect for the complexity of the topic.
manuallybreathing@lemmy.ml 5 months ago
It’s easier to castrate men than to expect women to take medicate with a wide array of side potential effects, stop politicising healthcare x
jali67@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
Yeah they try to make this sound like an intelligent argument or that they designed birth control for women out of misogyny. It’s much easier to get one or two eggs terminated in a cycle vs eliminating millions of sperm without causing infertility. I don’t think the people that spew this understand.
Furbag@lemmy.world 5 months ago
Just FYI after the 5th one I’m just cumming air at that point, but if there are 2,430 women out there who want to give it a try anyway be my guest.
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk 5 months ago
You also get a hydro homie whose sole job is to keep you hydrated and keep giving you zinc suppliments
matmarspace@programming.dev 5 months ago
I don’t get it 🤔
whoisearth@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
It’s in the name. Birth control
SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Counterpoint: a woman taking birthcontrol is empowering her because she is taking charge of her own reproduction. She doesn’t have to rely on or trust the man to take his pill. After all, she would be the one bearing most of the burden in case of an unwanted pregnancy.
Additionally, purely biologically it is much easier to reliably stop conception on the female side than on the male side. A woman only produces one egg cell per month, whereas a man produces millions of sperm cells per day.
DrivebyHaiku@lemmy.ca 5 months ago
Counterpoint to your counterpoint- no form of birth control has a zero percent failure rate under perfect use conditions and not all women respond to all forms of birth control well meaning pregnancy capable people cannot take perfect control of their family planning choices without the extreme surgical intervention of a hysterectomy as even getting medically sterilized in other ways can potentially undo itself. Doubling up from both sides means a much lower chance of failure rate resulting in life changing or difficult consequences and distress on behalf of the partner who faces higher risk outcomes.
Doing your part in a relationship’s reproductive planning is good partner behavior. This shouldn’t be a game where just one person is on the hook and the other is just along for the ride. Male and Female birth control do not exist as a one or the other dichotomy. Stoking division of the sexes over which one is more nessisary is counter to the real point. These are tools couples can use together to be safer.
SpaceCadet@feddit.nl 5 months ago
Doing your part in a relationship’s reproductive planning is good partner behavior. This shouldn’t be a game where just one person is on the hook and the other is just along for the ride. Male and Female birth control do not exist as a one or the other dichotomy.
Except what the meme is saying is not that both partners should work together on birth control. It suggests that it should be on the man instead.
Meme also suggests that no work is being done on a male contraception pill, when in reality this is being worked on and has been worked on for decades, but there are good biological reasons why this is anything but trivial and certainly much harder than a female contraception pill.
jali67@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
No one is saying both sides should not be responsible. The initial photo from OP is implying that BC was initially for women out of misogyny or some other malicious reason. It is MUCH easier to terminate 1-2 viable eggs through a cycle than millions of sperm without causing infertility.
ThunderclapSasquatch@startrek.website 5 months ago
Condoms don’t exist?
LeFantome@programming.dev 5 months ago
Fun fact.
Women do not produce eggs each month, they just release them.
Women are born with all the eggs they will ever have. They never make any more.
cley_faye@lemmy.world 5 months ago
I have built-in birth control.
Also, I’d jump on a pill that allows safe (as in, no kid) sex with more fun, but it seems that’s hard to do.
MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip 5 months ago
The issue with pills for the man is, that he should still be able to get hard and produce (inactive) sperm, while for the woman it’s relatively simple.
And you forgot condoms, no?
bigbabybilly@lemmy.world 5 months ago
That’s why I got the chop. Firing blanks for the last year.