This will never happen as long as Big Greenland holds the strings of power in the cartography world.
YSK There's a campaign to replace the distorted Mercator world map with the fairer Equal-Earth projection
Submitted 1 day ago by drmoose@lemmy.world to youshouldknow@lemmy.world
Comments
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 21 hours ago
sunbeam60@lemmy.ml 1 hour ago
It’s time the U.S. deals with big Greenland once and for Oil.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
And they’re very big. Have you looked at a map lately? Do you expect tiny little Africa to stand up to that?
oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
I mean the problem with any projection of earth onto a 2d simplified shape surface is that it will be inherently distorted. The Mercator projection is scaled properly towards the equator but has to scale upwards more and more toward the poles to be able to fit the given area.
Even their own map, which for some reason isn’t shown in either the video or on the main page, isn’t accurate either. It’s better but is also warped in its own way, it would be nice if they had a little blurb that says something to that effect.
Here’s the actual map projection they are pushing for; equal-earth.com/equal-earth-projection.html
teft@piefed.social 1 day ago
T156@lemmy.world 1 day ago
It seems like the kind of thing that would give rise to the
~
Earth movementViking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
I mean, I’m not exactly thrilled about it erasing my country… Did a cartographer from New Zealand make this as an act of revenge? 🤔
CaptDust@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
We could also have made Mercator maps of varying position, but that might not center Europe.
zululove@lemmy.ml 9 hours ago
This is so dumb what do you mean replace you have a phone and can look up different versions as u please
GlassHalfHopeful@lemmy.ca 8 hours ago
They’re speaking of the standard and default in most map representations.
teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 17 hours ago
CMV: this movement only matters to stupid people, and does not qualify as something “I should know”.
skisnow@lemmy.ca 1 hour ago
I’ll split this into two:
only matters to stupid people
People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism… generally not a low IQ cohort.
and does not qualify as something “I should know”
Ironically this might be true, just not for reasons that are flattering to you…
jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 hours ago
maybe a little abrasive in tone but i don’t totally disagree, this is kind of fucking dumb and i don’t understand why im seeing this everywhere rn.
mercator hasn’t been ubiquitous in decades and when it is used today there’s usually an actual reasoning, however valid one decides it to be.
what the fuck are these people talking about?
a campaign for this? what, are we going to campaign to cease the use of subway maps next because they give a dishonest sense of size and scale of metros?
this feels like weird distraction bait from things that actually matter.
teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 12 hours ago
Yeah, I’m open to any valid arguments for why it would matter, but I haven’t seen any. People who think land size should correspond to representation are…to be more diplomatic: not making any effort to think things through.
LetMeShowYouAThing@sh.itjust.works 16 hours ago
The Mercator projection was great for navigating oceans, baring remain correct. There are thousands of other map projections that do a better job preserving size, shape, directions, and distances. Any projection will be a tradeoff between these.
As far as I know the Mercator projection has mostly fallen out of use in education, and I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
Don’t give the right any ideas. They’ll be on about “geometric purity” or other such nonsense. Or anything but Mercator will just be “woke.”
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 9 hours ago
Nah they all use the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
i think the best solution (besides globes which are impractical on screens/posters) is having no standard, expose kids in school to 3 or 4 different projections so they learn there’s no standard and all protections are as valid and all with drawbacks and advantages.
skisnow@lemmy.ca 1 hour ago
Yeah I had a Peters Projection map when I was young and there wasn’t any big deal over it, somehow I just assumed everyone did.
cerement@slrpnk.net 1 day ago
still not as aesthetic as Waterman butterfly projection
(and relevant XKCD)
Lodespawn@aussie.zone 1 day ago
I didn’t think I’d ever have a favourite map but here we are.
BlueEther@no.lastname.nz 1 day ago
That projection shows how vast the Pacific is
roscoe@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 hours ago
It’s almost two entire sections. With just a little of North America, Asia, and Antarctica. No other body is water or land mass comes anywhere near that.
And if you still don’t think that’s vast enough, maybe a lifetime of bad projections have given you a distorted view of the Pacific’s size. Mercator and Mercator like projections definitely make the Pacific look much too large near the poles.
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 1 day ago
By signing the petition you take a stand against a false narrative that downplays Africa’s vast size and diversity as the second-largest continent, reducing its perceived importance in global politics and economics. You can correct the narrative.
I’ll be real here, I have no idea what these people are talking about. The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone’s thinking of how important the country is in global politics or economics. If someone thinks “country looks small so they must be unimportant,” they are either a child or a fool. Or both.
drmoose@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I somewhat agree, Africa never looked small imo. However Russia, Greenland, Canada etc are so comically oversized that it absolutely makes a difference imo.
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Its a distorted representation of what the Earth looks like, and regardless of the way the sphere of our Earth is displayed on a 2D plane, it will always be distorted.
I don’t see any tangible benefit from changing what has already worked and is globally accepted for many decades. It seems kinda nitpicky, or like these people are clout chasing or something.
sanguinepar@lemmy.world 23 hours ago
The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone’s thinking of how important the country is in global politics or economics.
Africa isn’t a country though, it’s a continent. And one possible impact of the continent being represented much smaller than it really is, is people thinking of Africa as a country
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I meant continent. My bad.
victorz@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
The fact that you say Africa is a country kind of speaks against your argument here, wouldn’t you say?
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 17 hours ago
I mean continent, it was a mistake.
lime@feddit.nu 1 day ago
it’s a pretty common talking point.
RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world 1 day ago
it’s a pretty common talking point.
Not common enough, apparently.
I have never in my life ever heard anyone equate the size of a country on a map to its importance to global politics and economics. And I am old enough to remember when you had to hang up the phone before you could use the internet.
logi@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Faithfully projecting a globe onto a flat surface is impossible and all projections have to balance a number of compromises. Mercator retains compass directions and the shapes of land masses but entirely sacrifices relative scale between equatorial regions and polar regions. This makes it great for navigating a 17th century vessel. Other projections strike a different balance, like this one, and sacrifice compass direction and land mass shapes in order to perfectly retain scale. On this map, my little Arctic island looks like someone stepped on it.
IMO a balanced projection will compromise on all the nice properties a projection can have, and if that isn’t acceptable, then get a globe.
nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
DYMAXION MAP OR GTFO
stickly@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
This looks like when you see a weird, unflattering picture of a celebrity. Earth just woke up and hasn’t put its makeup on and you put it on blast like this
aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com 1 day ago
Not a single link there to technical details about the projection.
can@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
You can get this with a few clicks
Equal Earth is an equal-area (equivalent) projection. Shapes, directions, angles, and distances are distorted and stretched north-south in tropical and mid-latitude areas. Nearer the poles, features are compressed in the north-south direction. Distortion values are symmetric across the equator and the central meridian.
and there’s a paper but the link requires access
samc@feddit.uk 21 hours ago
Firstly, I do think that projections which enlarge Europe and north America relative to the global south are a problem and every curriculum should include education about how this happens and what the world really looks like.
But also, kinda funny how this project is very specifically about fairness for Africa. Why not include south America in there too?
volvoxvsmarla@sopuli.xyz 20 hours ago
Firstly, I do think that projections which enlarge Europe and north America relative to the global south are a problem and every curriculum should include education about how this happens and what the world really looks like.
Honestly, at least in school you should use a globe to begin with. It is the best projection there is. I’m also pretty sure there are online “globes” that you can turn any way you want. Using a 2D projection is mostly unnecessary in education.
PixxlMan@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
A globe isn’t a projection at all, it’s the real deal. Projection occurs when you take that 3D surface and map it to a 2D surface.
squaresinger@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
But also, kinda funny how this project is very specifically about fairness for Africa. Why not include south America in there too?
Have you looked at the projections in question?
Mercator enlarges everything closer to the poles while making everything closer to the equator smaller. It does not matter which continent it is, since it follows the same formula worldwide. That means, Europe, North America, Greenland, the south end of South America, South Africa, Asia, Australia, New Zealand and Antarctica are enlarged, and Central America, northern South America, most of Africa, India, South Asia and Ocenania are depicted smaller.
The Equal Earth projection makes sure that each square kilometer of land takes up the same space on the map, no matter where it is.
So this enlarges all regions closer to the equator (as listed above) and shrinks all that are closer to the poles.
So obviously it does benefit most regions of South America and frankly, I’m quite surprised that you’d think it wouldn’t.
In fact, it would be quite difficult to make a projection that would specifically enlarge Africa while shrinking South America. (Certainly possible, but difficult)
samc@feddit.uk 11 hours ago
I was referring to the text at the bottom of the press release:
By signing the petition you take a stand against a false narrative that downplays Africa’s vast size and diversity as the second-largest continent, reducing its perceived importance in global politics and economics. You can correct the narrative.
It seems to single out Africa because this campaign is led by Africa No Filter and Speak Up Africa. I just thought it was amusing that the campaign text mentions Africa repeatedly but only indirectly mentions south america when referring to the global south.
mmmm@sopuli.xyz 19 hours ago
Why not include south America in there too?
Almost nobody here gives a flying fuck about education quality. If we were to talk about education injustices we could argue about how the USA stole the name of the continent for theirs and you people don’t seem to like that talk…
But in all seriousness I guess we as Latin America/South America don’t have that sense of unity as Africa does. We are absurdly diverse and I think it has taken a toll in our sense of identity
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 11 hours ago
If we were to talk about education injustices we could argue about how the USA stole the name of the continent for theirs and how most of the world went along with that, and you people don’t seem to like that talk…
I propose that Brazil go for the option of maximum chaos. Brazil should formally change its official name to Os Estados Unidos da América. Ain’t no rule that says two nations can’t have the same name.
lemmyknow@lemmy.today 19 hours ago
South America/Latin America, unite! Become strong, and don’t let the US make of themselves the continent. Where’s LatAm’s (Sudamerica’s?) version of the EU?
I for one enjoy this modern “shared” culture in hispanic countries. Or at least what I perceive to be so. LatAm artists getting awards at Music Awards in Spain is poggers, and the collaborations between artists of different countries as well. Also the radio station being available in several countries as well. Afaik, Brazilians seem to not be very familiar with other lusophone countries’ culture as much, though it seems the contrary might be true. I imagine Brazilians also don’t be familiar with other LatAm countries’ music and culture either, but Idk. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Okay… but doesn’t this just introduce the issue of flat maps distorting anything to the east or west of center in a different way?
kuberoot@discuss.tchncs.de 1 day ago
If it’s already distorted, switching to a different distortion that’s area-preserving can still be an improvement.
Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 day ago
Hm… personally, I think it’s very situational, but generally I feel like a more accurate shape is more important than size. I especially feel like it would be important for children who are just learning the map.
RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
I’m in the one and only line of work where Mercator makes sense, and even I hate Mercator.
realitista@lemmus.org 22 hours ago
Which line of work is that? You just gonna leave us hanging?
RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Shipping and petroleum - got an old Ikea Mercator map behind me for quick looks and estimations.
Agosagror@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 hours ago
what line of work?
RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Shipping and petroleum - got an old Ikea Mercator map behind me for quick looks and estimations.
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 hours ago
Fuck this. We can do
betterworsepartial_accumen@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Obligatory West Wing Gall-Peters Projection link
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 21 hours ago
I believe in Winkel-Tripel supremacy
aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
none of this matters, because we all know the earth is flat. Just because other planets are round, doesn’t mean the earth is!
gloktawasright@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I like the AuthaGraph map myself, but I’m happy to see an wqual area projection being proposed!
PoisonedPrisonPanda@discuss.tchncs.de 22 hours ago
wow. thats cool
Gork@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
I kinda like the Winkel Triple or Kavrayskiy VII projections. They look a bit more natural compared to the Mercator.
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I laugh every time.
You could not bitch about a more pointless subject.
drmoose@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Brave take with your comment history public lmao
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 1 day ago
You’ve changed the world today. You’ve made it a better place.
TheGuyTM3@lemmy.ml 14 hours ago
For me, Peter’s projection will always be in second place behind simply using a globe: keeps cardinal directions, easy to find precise coordinates with a ruler, correct continent significance while only using straight lines, simple, and easy to use.
Peeps always says i’m evil because everything is distorded on it but i don’t care about distortion, I just want something rectangular and accurate.
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Mercator? I barely even know her!
mrmule@sh.itjust.works 23 hours ago
victorz@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Love that actually. Any map focusing on relevant parts will be more accurate to those parts.
cheese_greater@lemmy.world 19 hours ago
Now I need to watch a video on how globes are made
JeeBaiChow@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Those distances get exaggerated up on the poles though. What about that other one that looks like a bunch of orange slices?
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 22 hours ago
Oh it’s called “equal earth projection”?
Great. That means Trump will double down on the Mercator and it’ll be like the metric bullshit all over again.
bdonvr@thelemmy.club 1 day ago
It’s not a bad compromise projection honestly. Why not?
drmoose@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The slider is very revealing. Hard to believe that were still using Mercator projection when its so incredibly deceiving even if you actually know the real sizes.
realitista@lemmus.org 22 hours ago
Since this article gave you everything except the one thing you want to see, here’s what the Equal Earth projection looks like
volvoxvsmarla@sopuli.xyz 20 hours ago
Yes, it is an awful website with an awful promotion video. Sizing the countries down but not connecting them and not showing you the world map as it would look like in total is absolutely not furthering the cause. I’m so mad I’m not sure I even want to sign the petition to be honest. Granted, my school atlas did not have the mercator projection.
skisnow@lemmy.ca 1 hour ago
What really disappoints me about that site is the button that reads “Download the Correct Map”. They destroyed all their credibility with one word.
IndustryStandard@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Damn Russia is still that big? I thought the distortion played a large part in its size on the original map.
AA5B@lemmy.world 22 hours ago
Yeah, but now it’s tiny compared to Antarctica
BangCrash@lemmy.world 21 hours ago
Greenland’s not that big is it?
PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
Yes it’s still quite big, but not nearly as big as Australia (as Mercator would suggest). On a globe it is quite obvious, but who has a globe at home in 2025…