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YSK There's a campaign to replace the distorted Mercator world map with the fairer Equal-Earth projection

⁨571⁩ ⁨likes⁩

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨drmoose@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨youshouldknow@lemmy.world⁩

https://correctthemap.org/

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  • oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I mean the problem with any projection of earth onto a 2d simplified shape surface is that it will be inherently distorted. The Mercator projection is scaled properly towards the equator but has to scale upwards more and more toward the poles to be able to fit the given area.

    Even their own map, which for some reason isn’t shown in either the video or on the main page, isn’t accurate either. It’s better but is also warped in its own way, it would be nice if they had a little blurb that says something to that effect.

    Here’s the actual map projection they are pushing for; equal-earth.com/equal-earth-projection.html

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    • teft@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Fuck that. Let's go for the euler spiral.

      Image

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      • T156@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It seems like the kind of thing that would give rise to the ~ Earth movement

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      • Viking_Hippie@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I mean, I’m not exactly thrilled about it erasing my country… Did a cartographer from New Zealand make this as an act of revenge? 🤔

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      • Jakule17@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I hope someone travels Antarctic to Alaska on this map

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    • CaptDust@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      In color

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    • panda_abyss@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      We could also have made Mercator maps of varying position, but that might not center Europe.

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  • realitista@lemmus.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Since this article gave you everything except the one thing you want to see, here’s what the Equal Earth projection looks like

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    • volvoxvsmarla@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yes, it is an awful website with an awful promotion video. Sizing the countries down but not connecting them and not showing you the world map as it would look like in total is absolutely not furthering the cause. I’m so mad I’m not sure I even want to sign the petition to be honest. Granted, my school atlas did not have the mercator projection.

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      • skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        What really disappoints me about that site is the button that reads “Download the Correct Map”. They destroyed all their credibility with one word.

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      • Enkrod@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Yeh, I mean I can see how using Mercator is subconsciously strengthening colonialist thinking, but to imply that the angles-stable area-distorted map that was much more convenient for naval navigation, was specifically chosen to misrepresent the size of the global south world is borderline paranoid.

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    • IndustryStandard@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Damn Russia is still that big? I thought the distortion played a large part in its size on the original map.

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      • AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Yeah, but now it’s tiny compared to Antarctica

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    • BangCrash@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Greenland’s not that big is it?

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      • PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Yes it’s still quite big, but not nearly as big as Australia (as Mercator would suggest). On a globe it is quite obvious, but who has a globe at home in 2025…

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  • NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This will never happen as long as Big Greenland holds the strings of power in the cartography world.

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    • WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      And they’re very big. Have you looked at a map lately? Do you expect tiny little Africa to stand up to that?

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    • sunbeam60@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It’s time the U.S. deals with big Greenland once and for Oil.

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  • cerement@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    still not as aesthetic as Waterman butterfly projection

    (and relevant XKCD)

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    • Lodespawn@aussie.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I didn’t think I’d ever have a favourite map but here we are.

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    • BlueEther@no.lastname.nz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      That projection shows how vast the Pacific is

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      • roscoe@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        It’s almost two entire sections. With just a little of North America, Asia, and Antarctica. No other body is water or land mass comes anywhere near that.

        And if you still don’t think that’s vast enough, maybe a lifetime of bad projections have given you a distorted view of the Pacific’s size. Mercator and Mercator like projections definitely make the Pacific look much too large near the poles.

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    • craigers@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Came here to make sure that xkcd got posted. Well done.

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  • RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    By signing the petition you take a stand against a false narrative that downplays Africa’s vast size and diversity as the second-largest continent, reducing its perceived importance in global politics and economics. You can correct the narrative.

    I’ll be real here, I have no idea what these people are talking about. The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone’s thinking of how important the country is in global politics or economics. If someone thinks “country looks small so they must be unimportant,” they are either a child or a fool. Or both.

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    • drmoose@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I somewhat agree, Africa never looked small imo. However Russia, Greenland, Canada etc are so comically oversized that it absolutely makes a difference imo.

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      • RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Its a distorted representation of what the Earth looks like, and regardless of the way the sphere of our Earth is displayed on a 2D plane, it will always be distorted.

        I don’t see any tangible benefit from changing what has already worked and is globally accepted for many decades. It seems kinda nitpicky, or like these people are clout chasing or something.

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    • sanguinepar@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The way Africa looked on maps has never had any bearing on my or probably anyone’s thinking of how important the country is in global politics or economics.

      Africa isn’t a country though, it’s a continent. And one possible impact of the continent being represented much smaller than it really is, is people thinking of Africa as a country

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      • RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I meant continent. My bad.

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    • victorz@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The fact that you say Africa is a country kind of speaks against your argument here, wouldn’t you say?

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      • RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I mean continent, it was a mistake.

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    • lime@feddit.nu ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      it’s a pretty common talking point.

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      • RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        it’s a pretty common talking point.

        Not common enough, apparently.

        I have never in my life ever heard anyone equate the size of a country on a map to its importance to global politics and economics. And I am old enough to remember when you had to hang up the phone before you could use the internet.

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  • logi@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Faithfully projecting a globe onto a flat surface is impossible and all projections have to balance a number of compromises. Mercator retains compass directions and the shapes of land masses but entirely sacrifices relative scale between equatorial regions and polar regions. This makes it great for navigating a 17th century vessel. Other projections strike a different balance, like this one, and sacrifice compass direction and land mass shapes in order to perfectly retain scale. On this map, my little Arctic island looks like someone stepped on it.

    IMO a balanced projection will compromise on all the nice properties a projection can have, and if that isn’t acceptable, then get a globe.

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  • theherk@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This is such a garbage take. There is no way to “show our world as it truly is” in two dimensions. I’m all about showing other projects and orientations. Classrooms should have “upside down” maps and Albert maps for example. But we should also teach that each projection has benefits and drawbacks. I was taught that decades ago. Have we stopped?

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    • Blackmist@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The way the world’s going, the next accepted projection will be depicted on the backs of four elephants atop a turtle.

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      • rumba@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Bring on the Wizzards

        I do hope we get the luggage…

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      • lemmy_nightmare@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Wait a minute. I have seen this exact visual somewhere

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    • rumba@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Africans: You know, 14th century mercator maps are horribly disproportionate over 1/2 the map and are the maps of reference for most online apps, software and textbooks. There are better projections that balance location for actual land mass, we should probably use those.

      lemmy: garbage take.

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      • theherk@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        There aren’t better maps. Only maps with different tradeoffs. ALL 2d maps of spheres are disproportionate.

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    • BehavioralClam@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Its the same take that’s applied to any party seen as a “status quo”. Your boss, the CEO, police, the state, movies, everything is “projected” to show something that it isn’t to subtly manipulate the basis of your decisions.

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      • theherk@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        What? Map projections are not projected to manipulate you psychologically. They are projected to manipulate a three dimensional object onto a two dimensional surface.

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    • drmoose@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      99% of people dont know that there other projections. I dare you to ask people which map projection is their favorite.

      Ideally yes we should stick to standard and make sure everyone knows thay there are many variants and none of them perfectly represent the sphere were on but thats not happening.

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      • theherk@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        I don’t believe that 99% figure for a second. Unless geography is removed from all curricula worldwide. Even still, that ignorance would not signify what this movement implies. It is a useful map; end of story. If the movement were, “We should increase public knowledge of geography and how projections work,” fine. But it isn’t.

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  • aubeynarf@lemmynsfw.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Not a single link there to technical details about the projection.

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    • Redjard@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      equal-earth.com/equal-earth-projection.html

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    • can@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You can get this with a few clicks

      Equal Earth is an equal-area (equivalent) projection. Shapes, directions, angles, and distances are distorted and stretched north-south in tropical and mid-latitude areas. Nearer the poles, features are compressed in the north-south direction. Distortion values are symmetric across the equator and the central meridian.

      and there’s a paper but the link requires access

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  • IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    i think the best solution (besides globes which are impractical on screens/posters) is having no standard, expose kids in school to 3 or 4 different projections so they learn there’s no standard and all protections are as valid and all with drawbacks and advantages.

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    • captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You’ve unlocked a weird memory. The Windows CD version of Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego did exactly that. It had that map screen where you’d pick where to chase the bad guy, and they used different map projections. I can find screenshots of the game showcasing a Mercator, Robinson and Goode Homolosine projections. And it’s not different editions of the game, it would change between missions.

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    • skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah I had a Peters Projection map when I was young and there wasn’t any big deal over it, somehow I just assumed everyone did.

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    • DampCanary@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I don’t get it,
      from my memory of geography class in 5th to 8th grade, in elementary, we extensively learned about all kinds of maps, and projections, so teaching kids 3-4 is huge downgrade.

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      • IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        didn’t mean only teach 3-4, just to not regularly use one projection. use a handful so no one instinctively learns to accept one.

        even though you learned a lot of maps, it’s likely most maps you used when not learning about different projections were the same.

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  • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    CMV: this movement only matters to stupid people, and does not qualify as something “I should know”.

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    • jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      maybe a little abrasive in tone but i don’t totally disagree, this is kind of fucking dumb and i don’t understand why im seeing this everywhere rn.

      mercator hasn’t been ubiquitous in decades and when it is used today there’s usually an actual reasoning, however valid one decides it to be.

      what the fuck are these people talking about?

      a campaign for this? what, are we going to campaign to cease the use of subway maps next because they give a dishonest sense of size and scale of metros?

      this feels like weird distraction bait from things that actually matter.

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      • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Yeah, I’m open to any valid arguments for why it would matter, but I haven’t seen any. People who think land size should correspond to representation are…to be more diplomatic: not making any effort to think things through.

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    • skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’ll split this into two:

      only matters to stupid people

      People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism… generally not a low IQ cohort.

      and does not qualify as something “I should know”

      Ironically this might be true, just not for reasons that are flattering to you…

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      • teawrecks@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism

        I maintain that none of those people are the ones interested in this movement, and if you believe they are, you haven’t spent any time thinking about it. Again, I’m looking for any actual legitimate argument in support of it. A condescending argument from hypothetical authority isn’t going to cut it.

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  • LetMeShowYouAThing@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The Mercator projection was great for navigating oceans, baring remain correct. There are thousands of other map projections that do a better job preserving size, shape, directions, and distances. Any projection will be a tradeoff between these.

    As far as I know the Mercator projection has mostly fallen out of use in education, and I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.

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    • WoodScientist@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.

      Don’t give the right any ideas. They’ll be on about “geometric purity” or other such nonsense. Or anything but Mercator will just be “woke.”

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      • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        “The woke liberal left wants to changes maps to make America smaller! Cause they hate America! We will stand against this liberal assault on American sovereinty with the new Trump Map, which shows the true size of America compared to every other country! Order your new Trump Map today for 399.98!”

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      • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        Nah they all use the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection

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    • BehavioralClam@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      yeah, most of the world already moved on from it, but its still being used in many texts and countries.

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  • Nalivai@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It’s a bit hard to find out where it actually originated from and who’s behind it. Judjing by their social media handlers, it’s a marketing agency Hello Makeda. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust marketing agencies to be good judges on geographical projects.

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    • BehavioralClam@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      They are only using the cause to promote their brand social responsibility probably. In any case, the issue with the distorted view of the map that ideologically and politically benefited one side has been known for decades, and most of the countries that were colonies now use the correct one.

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  • nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    DYMAXION MAP OR GTFO

    Image

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    • Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Each region on a dymaxion map is absolutely fine though, it’s just when you put it all together it becomes god awful.

      A butterfly map is a better compromise if you need a world map.

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      • nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

        If you have a physical Dymaxion Map, you make each vertex a hinge so you can swing to connect the bits you want to be adjacent for the purpose at hand.

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    • stickly@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This looks like when you see a weird, unflattering picture of a celebrity. Earth just woke up and hasn’t put its makeup on and you put it on blast like this

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  • Ganbat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Okay… but doesn’t this just introduce the issue of flat maps distorting anything to the east or west of center in a different way?

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  • samc@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Firstly, I do think that projections which enlarge Europe and north America relative to the global south are a problem and every curriculum should include education about how this happens and what the world really looks like.

    But also, kinda funny how this project is very specifically about fairness for Africa. Why not include south America in there too?

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  • bandwidthcrisis@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Why does the map on the website need that draggable divider when both versions show both types of projection?

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  • zululove@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This is so dumb what do you mean replace you have a phone and can look up different versions as u please

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  • Tbird83ii@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Just want to point out… their “equal” and “correct” map is missing New Zealand…

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  • partial_accumen@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Obligatory West Wing Gall-Peters Projection link

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  • Rooty@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Mercator distorts landmass to fit the grid, so it is good for navigation, simply draw a straight line between two points and follow it. Also, the plea on that site is just…weird. Africa is not taken seriously because it is displayed too small on maps - what? It is a large, chunky continent that can be compressed without too much detail loss - Europe, not so much.

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  • RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I’m in the one and only line of work where Mercator makes sense, and even I hate Mercator.

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  • Gork@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I kinda like the Winkel Triple or Kavrayskiy VII projections. They look a bit more natural compared to the Mercator.

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  • aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    none of this matters, because we all know the earth is flat. Just because other planets are round, doesn’t mean the earth is!

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  • gloktawasright@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I like the AuthaGraph map myself, but I’m happy to see an wqual area projection being proposed!

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  • CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I laugh every time.

    You could not bitch about a more pointless subject.

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  • panda_abyss@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Mercator? I barely even know her!

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  • outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Fuck this. We can do better worse

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  • ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I believe in Winkel-Tripel supremacy

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  • damnedfurry@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It’s now trivial, in 2025, to depict the world as a 3D shape, this is coming a few decades after it matters, imo.

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  • Sarcasmo220@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Whatever map that uses Eurasia rather than pretend Europe is it’s own continent is fine by me

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