It’s now trivial, in 2025, to depict the world as a 3D shape, this is coming a few decades after it matters, imo.
YSK There's a campaign to replace the distorted Mercator world map with the fairer Equal-Earth projection
Submitted 7 months ago by drmoose@lemmy.world to youshouldknow@lemmy.world
Comments
damnedfurry@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Tbird83ii@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 months ago
Just want to point out… their “equal” and “correct” map is missing New Zealand…
drmoose@lemmy.world 7 months ago
You mean the homepage infographic? Thats not the map. If you click download you can get accurate full maps based on this projection.
calmluck9349@infosec.pub 7 months ago
Why don’t they just put the actual map on their site? The video and slider map make usa canada and mexico look like islands…
keegomatic@lemmy.world 7 months ago
(Maps missing New Zealand is a meme)
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 7 months ago
This is the best idea I’ve heard since that one weird website I found that said every country should put a sky blue pennant above their flag to remind us we share a planet.
Sarcasmo220@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
Whatever map that uses Eurasia rather than pretend Europe is it’s own continent is fine by me
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Geometry just isn’t PC
bandwidthcrisis@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Why does the map on the website need that draggable divider when both versions show both types of projection?
buttnugget@lemmy.world 7 months ago
You can’t see the reduced size versions inside the originals? They’re outlined in a different color.
bandwidthcrisis@lemmy.world 7 months ago
That’s what I’m saying, both versions show both outlines.
The coloring changes, but both show the same information.
Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de 7 months ago
it’s still a very strange design
aeiou_ckr@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I was wondering the same thing.
k0e3@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
The globe in the thumbnail is really bothering me. Does the artist not know how to align objects?
untorquer@lemmy.world 7 months ago
It’s also using mercator projection
BehavioralClam@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
It was probably done for free by some volunteer dude… You can contact them and offer to fix it for free probably
k0e3@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
I might just do that, thanks!
Nalivai@lemmy.world 7 months ago
It’s a bit hard to find out where it actually originated from and who’s behind it. Judjing by their social media handlers, it’s a marketing agency Hello Makeda. Maybe it’s just me, but I don’t trust marketing agencies to be good judges on geographical projects.
BehavioralClam@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
They are only using the cause to promote their brand social responsibility probably. In any case, the issue with the distorted view of the map that ideologically and politically benefited one side has been known for decades, and most of the countries that were colonies now use the correct one.
Rooty@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Mercator distorts landmass to fit the grid, so it is good for navigation, simply draw a straight line between two points and follow it. Also, the plea on that site is just…weird. Africa is not taken seriously because it is displayed too small on maps - what? It is a large, chunky continent that can be compressed without too much detail loss - Europe, not so much.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Maybe Greenland’s size on the projection is what got Trump all worked up. :P
BehavioralClam@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
Yes, but thats only for navigation. The map was chosen to be used as the standard in colonial time, because it brainwashed the colonies to believe that the people subjugating them were from great and big countries on the other side of the world. There would be a lot more revolts if people actually knew that they were being held captives by weak dudes from some small european piece of land that was only a fraction of the size of their country.
Slovene@feddit.nl 7 months ago
Ampak Mercator je najboljši sosed. 😢
theherk@lemmy.world 7 months ago
This is such a garbage take. There is no way to “show our world as it truly is” in two dimensions. I’m all about showing other projects and orientations. Classrooms should have “upside down” maps and Albert maps for example. But we should also teach that each projection has benefits and drawbacks. I was taught that decades ago. Have we stopped?
BehavioralClam@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
Its the same take that’s applied to any party seen as a “status quo”. Your boss, the CEO, police, the state, movies, everything is “projected” to show something that it isn’t to subtly manipulate the basis of your decisions.
theherk@lemmy.world 7 months ago
What? Map projections are not projected to manipulate you psychologically. They are projected to manipulate a three dimensional object onto a two dimensional surface.
drmoose@lemmy.world 7 months ago
99% of people dont know that there other projections. I dare you to ask people which map projection is their favorite.
Ideally yes we should stick to standard and make sure everyone knows thay there are many variants and none of them perfectly represent the sphere were on but thats not happening.
theherk@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I don’t believe that 99% figure for a second. Unless geography is removed from all curricula worldwide. Even still, that ignorance would not signify what this movement implies. It is a useful map; end of story. If the movement were, “We should increase public knowledge of geography and how projections work,” fine. But it isn’t.
rumba@lemmy.zip 7 months ago
Africans: You know, 14th century mercator maps are horribly disproportionate over 1/2 the map and are the maps of reference for most online apps, software and textbooks. There are better projections that balance location for actual land mass, we should probably use those.
lemmy: garbage take.
theherk@lemmy.world 7 months ago
There aren’t better maps. Only maps with different tradeoffs. ALL 2d maps of spheres are disproportionate.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 7 months ago
The way the world’s going, the next accepted projection will be depicted on the backs of four elephants atop a turtle.
lemmy_nightmare@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
Wait a minute. I have seen this exact visual somewhere
rumba@lemmy.zip 7 months ago
Bring on the Wizzards
I do hope we get the luggage…
zululove@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
This is so dumb what do you mean replace you have a phone and can look up different versions as u please
GlassHalfHopeful@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
They’re speaking of the standard and default in most map representations.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 7 months ago
i think the best solution (besides globes which are impractical on screens/posters) is having no standard, expose kids in school to 3 or 4 different projections so they learn there’s no standard and all protections are as valid and all with drawbacks and advantages.
DampCanary@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I don’t get it,
from my memory of geography class in 5th to 8th grade, in elementary, we extensively learned about all kinds of maps, and projections, so teaching kids 3-4 is huge downgrade.IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 7 months ago
didn’t mean only teach 3-4, just to not regularly use one projection. use a handful so no one instinctively learns to accept one.
even though you learned a lot of maps, it’s likely most maps you used when not learning about different projections were the same.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
You’ve unlocked a weird memory. The Windows CD version of Where In The World Is Carmen Sandiego did exactly that. It had that map screen where you’d pick where to chase the bad guy, and they used different map projections. I can find screenshots of the game showcasing a Mercator, Robinson and Goode Homolosine projections. And it’s not different editions of the game, it would change between missions.
skisnow@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
Yeah I had a Peters Projection map when I was young and there wasn’t any big deal over it, somehow I just assumed everyone did.
TheGuyTM3@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
For me, Peter’s projection will always be in second place behind simply using a globe: keeps cardinal directions, easy to find precise coordinates with a ruler, correct continent significance while only using straight lines, simple, and easy to use.
Peeps always says i’m evil because everything is distorded on it but i don’t care about distortion, I just want something rectangular and accurate.
LetMeShowYouAThing@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
The Mercator projection was great for navigating oceans, baring remain correct. There are thousands of other map projections that do a better job preserving size, shape, directions, and distances. Any projection will be a tradeoff between these.
As far as I know the Mercator projection has mostly fallen out of use in education, and I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
BehavioralClam@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
yeah, most of the world already moved on from it, but its still being used in many texts and countries.
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I don’t think there’s any standard that requires it anywhere. So I’m not sure exactly what this is about.
Don’t give the right any ideas. They’ll be on about “geometric purity” or other such nonsense. Or anything but Mercator will just be “woke.”
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 7 months ago
“The woke liberal left wants to changes maps to make America smaller! Cause they hate America! We will stand against this liberal assault on American sovereinty with the new Trump Map, which shows the true size of America compared to every other country! Order your new Trump Map today for 399.98!”
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
Nah they all use the Azimuthal Equidistant Projection
teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
CMV: this movement only matters to stupid people, and does not qualify as something “I should know”.
skisnow@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
I’ll split this into two:
only matters to stupid people
People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism… generally not a low IQ cohort.
and does not qualify as something “I should know”
Ironically this might be true, just not for reasons that are flattering to you…
teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
People who are interested in geography, geometry, cartography, political science, geopolitics, culture, cognitive biases, ethnocentrism
I maintain that none of those people are the ones interested in this movement, and if you believe they are, you haven’t spent any time thinking about it. Again, I’m looking for any actual legitimate argument in support of it. A condescending argument from hypothetical authority isn’t going to cut it.
jwmgregory@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 months ago
maybe a little abrasive in tone but i don’t totally disagree, this is kind of fucking dumb and i don’t understand why im seeing this everywhere rn.
mercator hasn’t been ubiquitous in decades and when it is used today there’s usually an actual reasoning, however valid one decides it to be.
what the fuck are these people talking about?
a campaign for this? what, are we going to campaign to cease the use of subway maps next because they give a dishonest sense of size and scale of metros?
this feels like weird distraction bait from things that actually matter.
teawrecks@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
Yeah, I’m open to any valid arguments for why it would matter, but I haven’t seen any. People who think land size should correspond to representation are…to be more diplomatic: not making any effort to think things through.
outhouseperilous@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 months ago
Fuck this. We can do
betterworsenymnympseudonym@lemmy.world 7 months ago
DYMAXION MAP OR GTFO
Alcoholicorn@mander.xyz 7 months ago
Each region on a dymaxion map is absolutely fine though, it’s just when you put it all together it becomes god awful.
A butterfly map is a better compromise if you need a world map.
nymnympseudonym@lemmy.world 7 months ago
If you have a physical Dymaxion Map, you make each vertex a hinge so you can swing to connect the bits you want to be adjacent for the purpose at hand.
stickly@lemmy.world 7 months ago
This looks like when you see a weird, unflattering picture of a celebrity. Earth just woke up and hasn’t put its makeup on and you put it on blast like this
cheese_greater@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Now I need to watch a video on how globes are made
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 7 months ago
This will never happen as long as Big Greenland holds the strings of power in the cartography world.
sunbeam60@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
It’s time the U.S. deals with big Greenland once and for Oil.
WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world 7 months ago
And they’re very big. Have you looked at a map lately? Do you expect tiny little Africa to stand up to that?
samc@feddit.uk 7 months ago
Firstly, I do think that projections which enlarge Europe and north America relative to the global south are a problem and every curriculum should include education about how this happens and what the world really looks like.
But also, kinda funny how this project is very specifically about fairness for Africa. Why not include south America in there too?
squaresinger@lemmy.world 7 months ago
But also, kinda funny how this project is very specifically about fairness for Africa. Why not include south America in there too?
Have you looked at the projections in question?
Mercator enlarges everything closer to the poles while making everything closer to the equator smaller. It does not matter which continent it is, since it follows the same formula worldwide. That means, Europe, North America, Greenland, the south end of South America, South Africa, Asia, Australia, New Zealand and Antarctica are enlarged, and Central America, northern South America, most of Africa, India, South Asia and Ocenania are depicted smaller.
The Equal Earth projection makes sure that each square kilometer of land takes up the same space on the map, no matter where it is.
So this enlarges all regions closer to the equator (as listed above) and shrinks all that are closer to the poles.
So obviously it does benefit most regions of South America and frankly, I’m quite surprised that you’d think it wouldn’t.
In fact, it would be quite difficult to make a projection that would specifically enlarge Africa while shrinking South America. (Certainly possible, but difficult)
samc@feddit.uk 7 months ago
I was referring to the text at the bottom of the press release:
By signing the petition you take a stand against a false narrative that downplays Africa’s vast size and diversity as the second-largest continent, reducing its perceived importance in global politics and economics. You can correct the narrative.
It seems to single out Africa because this campaign is led by Africa No Filter and Speak Up Africa. I just thought it was amusing that the campaign text mentions Africa repeatedly but only indirectly mentions south america when referring to the global south.
mmmm@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
Why not include south America in there too?
Almost nobody here gives a flying fuck about education quality. If we were to talk about education injustices we could argue about how the USA stole the name of the continent for theirs and you people don’t seem to like that talk…
But in all seriousness I guess we as Latin America/South America don’t have that sense of unity as Africa does. We are absurdly diverse and I think it has taken a toll in our sense of identity
WoodScientist@lemmy.world 7 months ago
If we were to talk about education injustices we could argue about how the USA stole the name of the continent for theirs and how most of the world went along with that, and you people don’t seem to like that talk…
I propose that Brazil go for the option of maximum chaos. Brazil should formally change its official name to Os Estados Unidos da América. Ain’t no rule that says two nations can’t have the same name.
lemmyknow@lemmy.today 7 months ago
South America/Latin America, unite! Become strong, and don’t let the US make of themselves the continent. Where’s LatAm’s (Sudamerica’s?) version of the EU?
I for one enjoy this modern “shared” culture in hispanic countries. Or at least what I perceive to be so. LatAm artists getting awards at Music Awards in Spain is poggers, and the collaborations between artists of different countries as well. Also the radio station being available in several countries as well. Afaik, Brazilians seem to not be very familiar with other lusophone countries’ culture as much, though it seems the contrary might be true. I imagine Brazilians also don’t be familiar with other LatAm countries’ music and culture either, but Idk. Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.
volvoxvsmarla@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
Firstly, I do think that projections which enlarge Europe and north America relative to the global south are a problem and every curriculum should include education about how this happens and what the world really looks like.
Honestly, at least in school you should use a globe to begin with. It is the best projection there is. I’m also pretty sure there are online “globes” that you can turn any way you want. Using a 2D projection is mostly unnecessary in education.
PixxlMan@lemmy.world 7 months ago
A globe isn’t a projection at all, it’s the real deal. Projection occurs when you take that 3D surface and map it to a 2D surface.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
I guess, even globally, size matters.
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 7 months ago
I believe in Winkel-Tripel supremacy
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 months ago
Oh it’s called “equal earth projection”?
Great. That means Trump will double down on the Mercator and it’ll be like the metric bullshit all over again.
locuester@lemmy.zip 7 months ago
The downloadable maps from that link are misnaming the “Gulf of America” as “Gulf of Mexico”, so Trump would never ask anyway haha
realitista@lemmus.org 7 months ago
Since this article gave you everything except the one thing you want to see, here’s what the Equal Earth projection looks like
volvoxvsmarla@sopuli.xyz 7 months ago
Yes, it is an awful website with an awful promotion video. Sizing the countries down but not connecting them and not showing you the world map as it would look like in total is absolutely not furthering the cause. I’m so mad I’m not sure I even want to sign the petition to be honest. Granted, my school atlas did not have the mercator projection.
Enkrod@feddit.org 7 months ago
Yeh, I mean I can see how using Mercator is subconsciously strengthening colonialist thinking, but to imply that the angles-stable area-distorted map that was much more convenient for naval navigation, was specifically chosen to misrepresent the size of the global south world is borderline paranoid.
skisnow@lemmy.ca 7 months ago
What really disappoints me about that site is the button that reads “Download the Correct Map”. They destroyed all their credibility with one word.
BangCrash@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Greenland’s not that big is it?
PlutoniumAcid@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Yes it’s still quite big, but not nearly as big as Australia (as Mercator would suggest). On a globe it is quite obvious, but who has a globe at home in 2025…
RecursiveParadox@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I’m in the one and only line of work where Mercator makes sense, and even I hate Mercator.
mrmule@sh.itjust.works 7 months ago
gloktawasright@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I like the AuthaGraph map myself, but I’m happy to see an wqual area projection being proposed!
CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I laugh every time.
You could not bitch about a more pointless subject.
ms_lane@lemmy.world 7 months ago
Any map depicting UTC0 in the centre and not the international date line in the centre is unequal.
-t Pacific nations.
drmoose@lemmy.world 7 months ago
I feel like thats why UTC never took off. They should have set 0 in the pacific ocean somewhere and everyone would have been much happier.