Submitted 2 weeks ago by KayLeadfoot@fedia.io to technology@lemmy.world
A 2025 Tesla Model 3 in Full-Self Driving mode drives off of a rural road, clips a tree, loses a tire, flips over, and comes to rest on its roof. Luckily, the driver is alive and well, able to post about it on social media.
I just don't see how this technology could possibly be ready to power an autonomous taxi service by the end of next week.
“It crashed!” “Yes but it did it all by itself!”
Except for the last 0.05 seconds before the crash where the human was put in control. Therefore, the human caused the crash.
The car made a fatal decision faster than any human could possibly correct it. Tesla’s idea that drivers can “supervise” these systems is, at this point, nothing more than a legal loophole.
What I don’t get is how this false advertising for years hasn’t caused Tesla bankruptcy already?
Because the US is an insane country where you can straight up just break the law and as long as you’re rich enough you don’t even get a slap on the wrist. If some small startup had done the same thing they’d have been shut down.
What I don’t get is why teslas aren’t banned all over the world for being so fundamentally unsafe.
What I don’t get is why teslas aren’t banned all over the world for being so fundamentally unsafe.
I’ve argued this point the past year, there are obvious safety problems with Tesla, even without considering FSD.
Like blinker on the steering wheel, manual door handles that are hard to find in emergencies, and distractions from common operations being behind menus on the screen, instead of having directly accessible buttons. With auto pilot they also tend to break for no reason, even on autobahn with clear road ahead! Which can also create dangerous situations.
Well, because 99% of the time, it’s fairly decent. That 1%'ll getchya tho.
To put your number into perspective, if it only failed 1 time in every hundred miles, it would kill you multiple times a week with the average commute distance.
That’s probably not the failure rate odds but a 1% failure rate is several thousand times higher than what NASA would consider an abort risk condition.
Let’s say that it’s only 0.01% risk, that’s still several thousand crashes per year. Even if we could guarantee that all of them would be non-fatal and would not involve any bystanders such as pedestrians the cost of replacing all of those vehicles every time they crashed plus fixing damage of things they crashed into, lamp posts, shop Windows etc would be so high as it would exceed any benefit to the technology.
It wouldn’t be as bad if this was prototype technology that was constantly improving, but Tesla has made it very clear they’re never going to add lidar scanners so is literally never going to get any better it’s always going to be this bad.
What false advertising? It’s called “Full Self Driving (Supervised)”.
For many years the “supervised” was not included, AFAIK Tesla was forced to do that.
I mean, if Elon was my dad, I’d probably have some suicidal tendencies too.
More like the abusive step-father
This represents the danger of expecting driver override to avoid accidents. If the driver has to be prepared enough to take control in an accident like this AT ALL TIMES, then the driver is required to be more engaged then they would be if they were just driving manually, because they have to be constantly anticipating not just what other hazards (drivers, pedestrians,…) might be doing, they have to be anticipating in what ways their own vehicle may be trying to kill them.
Absolutely.
I’ve got a car with level 2 automation, and after using it for a few months, I can say that it works really well, but you still need to be engaged to drive the car.
What it is good at… Maintaining lanes, even in tricky situation with poor paint/markings. Maintaining speed and distance from the car in front of you.
What it is not good at… Tricky traffic, congestion, or sudden stops. Lang changes. Accounting for cars coming up behind you. Avoiding road hazards.
I use it mostly like an autopilot. The car takes some of the monotonous workload out of driving, which allows me to move my focus from driving the car to observing traffic, other drivers, and road conditions.
I use autopilot all the time on my boat. No way in hell I’d trust it in a car. They all occasionally get suicidal. Mine likes to lull you into a sense of false security, then take a sharp turn into a channel marker or cargo ship at the last second.
Exactly. My car doesn’t have AP, but it does have a shed load of sensors and sometimes it just freaks out about stuff being too close to car for no discernible reason. Really freaks me out as I’m like what you see bro we just driving down the motorway.
For mine, it’s the radar seeing the retro-reflective stripes on utility poles being brighter than it expects.
Isn’t there a plane whose autopilot famously keeps trying to crash into the ground. The general advice is to just not let it do that, well it looks like it’s about to crash into the ground, pull up instead.
The Being 787 Max did that when the sensor got faulty and there was no redundancy for the sensor’s because that was in an optional addon package
All the other answers here are wrong. It was the Boeing 737-Max.
They fit bigger, more fuel efficient engines on it that changed the flight characteristics, compared to previous 737s. And so rather than have pilots recertify on this as a new model (lots of flight hours, can’t switch back), they designed software to basically make the aircraft seem to behave like the old model.
And so a bug in the cheaper version of the software, combined with a faulty sensor, would cause the software to take over and try to override the pilots and dive downward instead of pulling up. Two crashes happened within 5 months, to aircraft that were pretty much brand new.
It was grounded for a while as Boeing fixed the software and hardware issues, and, more importantly, updated all the training and reference materials for pilots so that they were aware of this basically secret setting that could kill everyone.
Pretty sure that’s the Boeing 777 and they discovered that after a crash off Brazil.
They have auto pilot on boats? I never even thought about that existing. Makes sense, just never heard of it until just now!
They’ve had it forever. Tie a rope to the wheel. Presto. Autopilot.
They’ve technically had autopilots for over a century, the first one was the oil tanker J.A Moffett in 1920. Though the main purpose of it is to keep the vessel going dead straight as otherwise wind and currents turn it, so using modern car terms I think it would be more accurate to say they have lane assist? Commercial ones can often do waypoint navigation, following a set route on a map, but I don’t think that’s very common on personal vessels.
Full Self-Destruct
self driving is the future, but im glad im not a beta tester.
Self driving via cameras IS NOT THE FUTURE!! Cameras are basically slightly better human eyes and human eyes suck ass.
i agree
I am never getting into a self driving car. I don’t understand why we are investing money into this technology when people can already drive cars on their own, and we should be moving towards robust public transportation systems anyway. A waste of time and resources to… what exactly? Stare at your phone for a few extra minutes a day? Work from home and every city having robust electric transit systems is what the future is supposed to be.
Back when I still believed, I was excited because I wanted get in my car and take a 90-minute nap until I arrived at work.
With public transportation, you can only be half-asleep or you’ll miss your stop.
I used to dream of watching a movie then falling asleep in bed while my car drove the 8 hours to my folks’ house.
But I’d want that beast to be bristling with sensors of every kind. None of this “cameras only” idiocy.
Someday. Maybe.
I have a 45 minute high speed train commute to a busy end-of-line station. I can sleep, read, work, or just stare out the window and think.
Same commute is probably twice as long by car during rush hour.
I’m not a fan of self driving cars, but saying that people are able to drive cars is a stretch.
In general I am opposed to machines being in direct control of weapons. I am also definitely of the opinion that there are lots of people who shouldn’t be driving.
People crash cars far, far, far more than Tesla FSD crashes “per capita”. People are terrible drivers on average.
Yikes. Glad they’re ok
I have visions of Elon sitting in his lair, stroking his cat, and using his laptop to cause this crash. /s
Why would you inflict that guy on a poor innocent kitty?
That tree cast shade on his brand.
It had to go.
For no reason?
They are running proprietary software in the car. Every electric car needs to be turned into an opens source car so that the car cannot be tampered with, no surveillancing, etc etc
Everyone should advocate for that because the alternative is this with Tesla. And I know nobody wants this happening to other car manufacturers cars as well
I just don’t see how this technology could possibly be ready to power an autonomous taxi service by the end of next week
That’s because it won’t, that’s because Elmo musk is gasp a liar. Always has been. That robo taxi is actuyab older lie he used a couple of years prior, but he dusted it lfft and re-used it.
Anytime Elmo says that he’s confident they can do it now, he means that they’re nowhere near a real product. Anytime he says “next year” it means that it won’t ever happen. Anytime he says that they alrethave a product, it just needs to me produced, it means that it’ll never happy
He is a vaporware con man who has been cheating people (and mostly the US government) out of billions
Literally look at all of his promises over the last decade, you start seeing patterns. It’s always almost there.
SpaceX, arguay his most successful company that he actually did with his leadership is a shit show of lies. According to him we’d be having colonies on Mars by now, it’s what he took 3 billion dollars in funding for, and he literally isn’t at 1% of that. Yet, he keeps claiming, within a few years now! Three billion dollars and he managed to blow up a banana over the Indian ocean, and obliterate a launch pad
If I commit fraud in the thousands, take thousands and then don’t deliver, I go to jail. He does it with countless billions and he’s still out there. Bit alas, his behavior finally is catching up with him, Tesla is going off a cliff bow that nobody wants to drive a Nazi brick anymore
Literally look at all of his promises over the last decade, you start seeing patterns. It’s always almost there.
Cheers for the guy/gal that maintains an updated list of all his bullshit, check it out sometime
Holy shit that is a treasure trove! Thanks kind stranger!
If it was open source tech people could check it and see if it really is capable for themselves but because it’s not we don’t know what it is missing to be way way better
Nah, on the 5 levels of autonomous driving, telsas as at level 2
Elmo isn’t even close but that wint stip him from just lying about it because that is what Elmo does best
Why someone will be a passenger in self-driving vehicle? They know that they are a test subjects, part of a “Cartrial” (or whatever should be called)? Self-Driving is not reliable and not necessery. Too much money is invested in something that is “Low priority to have”. There are prefectly fast and saf self-driving solutions like High-speed Trains.
I have no idea, I guess they have a lot more confidence in self driving (ESPECIALLY Tesla) than I do.
Elon took the wheel because that person made a mean tweet about him
I fear the day I’m on the receiving end of a “glitch.” It’s ridiculous that anyone can think these are safe after how many of these videos I’ve seen.
As a motorcyclist… Yeah.
“Kill me” it said in a robotic voice that got slower, glitchier, and deeper as it drove off the road.
EXTERMINAAAAAATE!!!
It got the most recent update, and thought a tunnel was a wall.
… and a tree was a painting.
Took me a second to get it, but that’s brilliant.
I wonder if there might even be some truth to it?
Wonder no more. Someone did this on YouTube using cardboard boxes, Tesla drove straight through them. Skip to around the 15 minute mark to watch it drive through the “wall” without even touching the brakes.
“I’m confident that Save full self driving (SFSD) will be ready next year”
To be fair, that grey tree trunk looked a lot like a road
It’s fine, nothing at all wrong with using just camera vision for autonomous driving. Nothing wrong at all. So a few cars run off roads or don’t stop for pedestrians or drive off a cliff. So freaking what, that’s the price for progress my friend!
I’d like to think this is unnecessary but just in case here’s a /s for y’all.
There’s an obvious reason. It’s a fucking Tesla.
Don’t drive Tesla
The problem with automation is complacency. Especially in something that people already have a very hard time taking seriously like driving where cell phone distraction, conversations, or just zoning out is super common.
Why was the driver not paying attention and why didn’t they just steer it back into the lane? It’s not called “Full Self Driving (Supervised)” for no reason. Hopefully Tesla get all the telemetry and share why it didn’t stay on the road, and also check if the driver was sleeping or distracted.
Watch the video. Happens insanely quickly. And on straight road that should be no issue so person’s guard was down
Watched it. Is there even any evidence that it was in FSD mode?
Not really worth talking about unless the crash rate is higher than human average.
It was in stunt mode
HAL9000 had Oh Clementine!
Has Tesla been training their AI with the lumberjack song?
No serious injuries
How unfortunate
Look, I respect where you’re coming from. May I presume your line of reasoning is in the vein of “elon musk sucks and thus anyone who buys their stuff is a Nazi and should die” - but that is far, far too loose of a chain of logic to justify sending a man to death alone. Perhaps if you said that they should be held accountable with the death penalty on the table? But c’mon - are you really the callous monster your comment paints you as?
These aren’t passive victims, they are operating harmfully dangerous machines at high speeds on roads shared with the rest of us.
I give 0 ducks about Nazis who drive the Nazi car. The more of them that oven themselves in them the better
Typical piss poor quality from Leon Hitler. F Tesla.
orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 2 weeks ago
The worst part is that this problem has already been solved by using LIDAR. Vegas had fully self-driving cars that I saw perform flawlessly, because they were manufactured by a company that doesn’t skimp on tech and rip people off.
Texas_Hangover@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Are those the ones that you can completely immobilize with a traffic cone?
Chocobofangirl@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You say that like it’s a bad thing lol if it kept going, that cone would fly off and hit somebody.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
A human also (hopefully anyway) wouldn’t drive if you put a cone over their head.
Like yeah, if you purposely block the car’s vision, it should refuse to drive.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
The same is true when you put a cone in front of a human driver’s vision. I don’t understand why “haha I blocked the vision of a driver and they stopped driving” is a gotcha.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Yes lol
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I wouldn’t really called it a solved problem when waymo with lidar is crashing into physical objects
www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/…/ar-AA1EMVTF
It’d probably be better to say that Lidar is the path to solving these problems. But not solved.
M137@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
call*
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
Lidar doesn’t completely solve the issue lol. Lidar can’t see line markings, speed signs, pedestrian crossings, etc. Cars equipped with lidar crash into things too.
orca@orcas.enjoying.yachts 2 weeks ago
I oversold it in my original comment, but it still performs better than using regular cameras like Tesla did. It performs better in weather and other scenarios than standard cameras. Elon is dumb though and doesn’t think LiDAR is needed for self-driving.