Submitted 11 months ago by cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com to technology@lemmy.world
I can’t believe the guy who originally administered the creation of Twitter would do all the exact same things that originally made him billions of dollars selling the company to Elon Musk.
There’s no way he’s just speed-running what he did last time in hopes of another $44B buyout.
Any system built on anonymous accounts is going to have the exact same problems. Lemmy is not “less bad” than Reddit because it’s decentralized
Not sure where you’re going with that, but it’s a perverse incentive, just like the engagement algorithm.
Elon is a problem because he can literally force himself into everyone’s feeds, but also because he always posts polarizing/enraging things these days.
you don’t kill a cow for a scratch on her leg (I hope the saying is understandable for everybody since it doesn’t come from English).
I’m on mastodon and bluesky: the first is even less populated than here and a big part of the interesting content comes from bot reposting popular accounts from x or reddit, while the second is far from being THE solution but it’s nowadays a -not wildly populated- compromise.
I don’t condone (while I understand) the Turkish bans and I’m not interested in a verification system: if I’d like one, I’d use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EIDAS.
I hope bluesky will correct its approach for what they can (the “good old” twitterin the golden era was banned in Turkey)
I don’t understand - do you think mastodon (or the fediverse in general) is sparsely populated? That’s not my impression at all!
That’s exactly what I meant: very few people, only on main niches, and some political and lifestyle ideas are common to 90% of the userbase (ie: anti-Trump, pro-Palestine, pro-Foss, etc).
I’m not complaining, just reporting what I see
I believe the equivalent saying would be “don’t let perfect be the enemy of good”.
I couldn’t give a single shit about these twitter alternatives, because the whole concept is stupid.
the whole concept is stupid.
+1
Being that algorithmic just makes any Twitter-like design too easy to abuse.
The checkmark is the wrong approach. You should never trust accounts, because accounts get hacked. We should instead use cryptographic signatures on individual posts, and clients can warn when that signature doesn’t match the account’s public key, or if that key changed recently. The private key would never live on the server, and ideally live outside the app.
This doesn’t verify identity, it just proves the key didn’t change. To establish identity, the person needs to use the same key in multiple places, such as posting it on a personal website or something. If a service wants to add their own stamp of approval, they can sign these public keys and embed them into the apl for clients to use (e.g. show a blue checkmark if Bluesky can verify the public key outside its system).
If the private key is compromised, repeat the process, potentially signing the new key with both the old and new key to prove control of both (or start from scratch if needed). Repeat whenever they get hacked.
Average user:
“Wait how do I get cryptocurrency with my key?”
This is a great idea.
It’s also not new. GPG has been around for decades, and is pretty much this.
Lots of “how dare they solve a real problem with the only method yet invented” in these replies. Gtfo losers, clutch your pearls harder. If you don’t like Bluesky don’t use it. Don’t be a whiny little bitch about it.
Only method yet invented?
Yeah I deleted my Bluesky. All public companies eventually turn to shit because of the shareholders unending greed.
ARE WE LEARNING HOW “SOCIAL MEDIA” WORKS YET HUMANITY?
Seriously. How many more fucking times do we need to go around this goddamn merry go round until we just start calling each other on the phone and meeting face to face again. You know, where the only enshittification is the one you bring with you. It’s fucking boring me now, how many of these stupid ass things I didn’t join because I’ve already, apparently, gotten the memo and how, inevitably, something like this happens, and everyone acts surprised and disappointed , as though inevitability was a concept they felt they’d been given a sabbatical from or something.
This. Shit. Ain’t. Free. There is an inherent cost, an “effort” required to communicate with others. You pay it with money, time or privacy. The overwhelming choice lately has been “privacy”, but it’s obviously something that not everyone is comfortable with, because we didn’t have the term “enshittification” before we started this flavor of our collective idiocy.
ARE WE LEARNING HOW “SOCIAL MEDIA” WORKS YET HUMANITY?
Apparently not, because people keep feeling surprised and offended when the Networking Effect happens.
What is this networking effect you mentioned? I tried searching online but I think I’m missing the context clues needed to find the right info.
Can I subscribe to your social media accounts? I would like to follow your opinions.
Nah, for real though, I’m so glad my best friend is still fairly analog and we use the phone for what it is (we just call each other when we want to meet up).
Lemmy is the last of social media that I use and I regularly take breaks from it because the echo chamber is very apparent and not something I wish to be consumed by.
this is unnecessary with custom domains
Their position is that custom domains are “too hard.”
No one disliked the check mark before “Genghis Kunt” started selling it
It was selectively given to institutions and “major” celebrities before that.
Selling them dilutes any meaning of “verified” because any joe can just pay for extra engagement. It’s a perverse incentive, as the people most interest in grabbing attention buy it and get amplified.
It really has little to do with Musk.
Preaching to the choir
But anyway anyone who thinks bluesky is actually decentralised will learn sooner rather than later that that’s not the case
Yous are hyping it a basic verification system which can’t be bought and is handed out for the sake of showing credibility is a good thing
The sake of credibility? What decides that though? Likes? Likes are a big problem imo. It doesn’t really do anything except create echo chambers.
IMO it’s not that blue check equals credibility, but rather it equals that you are who you say you are. This is a good thing particularly when it comes to public figures/officials — not for their sake, mind you, but for the sake of other people who may see a tweet from them. If the checkmark is there, then it’s them. If not, then it’s an impersonator. Right now it’s difficult to tell.
Tl;dr: it doesn’t make what they say real, it just makes them real.
Bluesky is the new X. After canceling the accounts of Turkish protesters this is the next step for the big money behind Bluesky. That’s why I deleted my account a few days ago.
What’s the story with the Turkish protesters?
Bluesky has basically bowed to the Turkish regime: turkishminute.com/…/bluesky-restrict-access-72-ac…
Exactly, Bluesky has been shitty for a while for lots of reasons. I’m not understanding why this is the line in the sand.
Same. Deleted my account when they started to censor the Turkish protestors. Not that I used the account really but still.
Something like this unavoidable.
Example, ted cruz the car mechanic in marfa Texas has just has much right to use blusky as professional shit bag senator ted cruz. But hiw do tell the real one from the racid sack of weasels.
It’s easy: cryptographic signatures. If you want to prove your identify, post a public key on something that you need to prove identity for (personal website or something) and sign your posts with the same key. That way everyone can tell the that the same key listed on the website is used for SM posts. Clients can check this automatically and flag anything on your “official” account that’s signed with a different key.
This is much better than a checkmark system, because accounts get hacked and whatnot. It’s really easy to check a cryptographic signature, and it’s really hard to fake. If the website gets hacked, the signature won’t match previous posts.
The main concern here is losing the key. If someone steals your key, generate a new one, and sign it with the old key and the new one. Boom, now everyone can tell you control both keys, while the attacker only controls the old one.
But how would a user see that this poat was made with the right crypto key. Maybe some check mark on the Post or some sign.
That’s only easy for nerds, and it doesn’t help if the private key is on a device that gets compromised.
People use usernames like they always have, and rely on reputation to distinguish themselves from the fakes? Senator ted ceuz makes an account called ‘senatortedcruz’ or if thats taken ‘therealsenatortedcruz’, and the mechanic makes one called ‘tedcruzcars’ or whatever. I dont see how your example is even relevant, because under a checkmark verification system both the mechanic ted cruz, and the senator ted cruz would be valid and deserving of a check mark, so there has to be some other way of distinguishing them anyway.
Its whay the original lawsuit that created checkmarks was about.
Bluesky is like a mini example of why Communism does not work. Centralization is a drug.
You can not make any commentary on Communism here. You will get down voted even if your criticism was correct. Probably even more so and the reason why this is likely to get downvoted out of hand, as well.
Intelligent commentary on Communism is one thing, lunatic gibberish is of course going to be downvoted.
This whole comment thread sucks lol. The top reaction literally just says “go away”. Talk about wannabe authoritarian tankies
perhaps if u make a coherent or relevant criticism this could be avoided
That is ok. I have never had an issue sharing facts that may trigger some. In fact the only reason it triggers some is it hits somewhere deep.
Bluesky is literally an example of enshittificatiom under capitalism. Go away
I would agree. Both Capitalism and Communism are two sides of the centralized coin.
What exactly a website related to Jack Dorsey has anything to do with Communism lol
Just that good intentions to become decentralized do not work. Not saying capitalism is better as they are two sides of the same centralized coin.
Jack Dorsey hasn’t been around for a long time.
This shitshow sounds familiar.
To quote my well known journalist friend after switching from twitter “what’s that? Oh, that open source stuff? Hahaha nah bruh, mastodon is silly”
Reminds me of a meeting my co-worker and I had with the IT staff of a company that is a customer using research instruments in our facility. The meeting was to ask us to enable data synchronization through SharePoint. (We’re a Linux shop.) We asked what the issue was with getting their data files with SFTP. They said, “It’s open source.”
Then, a few beats of silence as it sinks in for us that there is no next step in the chain of logic. That is the totality of their objection.
The amount of moments of “and therefore?” This stumps me equally with my small child as it does clients. Like, why TF are you saying this thing? How is that your supporting argument. There’s no argument! What’s your fucking thesis statement damnit?!
Ok so they knew enough about software to use open source correctly in a sentence, but could not even list one reason why they didn’t want to use it.
Normies will not go on Mastodon.
So long as the checkmark isn’t bought through some subscription service, I’m fine with this.
The whole reason why verification exists is because other will steal the name of someone famous and masquerade as them, with real world consequences. A verification system now means that certain platforms and people will get more attracted to be there, and thus Bluesky will grow.
It’s not.
Not yet 😏
My default is to just assume that they aren’t the same person unless corroborated by that person.
Unfortunately, the forecast isn’t good for the integrity of what should be a simple system. Under Dorsey, the Twitter blue checkmark had already become a tool for showing content approval by Twitter. In various instances users had their status removed based on their content and not on a question of if they were who they claimed to be.
You eeediots!
Ren from Ren and Stimpy?
😎
This was always bait to keep people using corporate social media instead of decentralizing. I am not sorry for the users one bit.
I don’t see how even the way Twitter does it is any worse than not having such system at all.
I’ve seen this movie before.
idk man I haven’t seen anyone complaining about it on Bluesky
This is a net positive, nice to have a social media where verification checks are…actually used for verifying the person behind an account
Based on how verification was revoked for some users on Twitter based on their content rather than question of their identity, I’m cautious about this system turning into the status symbol it became on Twitter rather than the verification it claimed to be.
Most of the complaints I’ve seen were about Bluesky’s lack of a formal verification system.
They could never figure out how the current system of checking the username.
But isn’t the domain already doing that?
Domains only help you verify organizations and individuals you recognize directly.
This verification system also allows 3rd parties (it’s NOT just bluesky themselves!) to issue attestations that s given account belongs to who they say they are, which would help people like independent journalists, etc.
I feel like domain usernames are still inherently susceptible to phishing, you can get a typo or similar character to try and trick someone that your username is an official one
The problem with domains is that regular people would need to know what a domain is and what verified ownership says about the account in question.
Even then, reading domains is quite difficult, even for people who know about the topic: Humans are Bad at URLs and Fonts Don’t Matter
I saw some small talk about it, and it really just boiled down to domain verification is great for more tech savvy folks, but trying to get larger accounts (think politicians, celebrities, etc) is a lot harder. Having a visual check, using tools within the app or site, is a lot easier.
And personally I like the idea of verification checks as long as it remains a simple means to do just that: verify the owner of the account. Morons like Musk and his ilk always thought it was a clout thing, and for a small minority that was probably the case, but by and large before he ruined it, it was great.
If they are, and there isn’t anything to display it, how are were to know what’s been vetted and what’s slipped through the cracks? Especially on a new account?
I do not see anything to be angry or disappointed about?
Verification badge was good, the dumb thing Twitter did was throw it away by letting anyone pay for it.
This is just a web of trust model, aka a decentralized model of verification. This thread is mostly people that haven’t read the details that want to confirm that “Bluesky has been enshittified”.
Decentralized isn’t the right word to use for a system like this.
Even though BS is going to appoint multiple different volunteer moderators (aka “Trusted Verifiers”) for this system, ultimate authority and control are entirely centralized with BS.
If the same authority is doing verification that is also doing moderation and both ultimately in a for profit setting, that has conflict of interest.
We dont know how reliable bluesky moderation will stay. We dont know how they will respond to political pressure. We dont know how they will monetize past the growth phase and then could also argue a “service fee” for verification.
In a perfect world none of these would happen, but then everybody could still be on twitter and be fine there.
They have already censored entire accounts at the request of governments.
Nah it was not good. Domain names already do that and are accessible to all at all times. Bluesky is literally regressing.
“Everyone should be able to setup their own domain and mess with DNS records to get a verified account”
Do you realize how utterly disconnected from reality this sounds?? Technical people that have absolutely not clue on how make good UX for end users is how we got Mastodon in the first place, and why its adoption is abysmal.
Far from perfect, but I think it’s good to have a layer that very visibly shows ‘yes, this is the account you want’.
Domains are a worthwhile addition, but they run into almost the same problem as usernames and handles. Can be made misleading easily - sure, I could often go to the web address and verify it (if they don’t put up a convincing fake site), but that’s much lower visibilty.
Eg, you can probably register nintendo@nintendoamerico and get it by some folks just as easily as registering the Twitter handle. There’s a payment step to get the domain, but that’s about it.
The centralization problem you mention is a good point though. It was a fine system, if you felt like you could trust Twitter as a verifier. Today obviously, one could not. But Bsky seems to at least theoretically have a ‘choose your verification provider’ idea in mind, which would (again theoretically) resolve a lot of that issue.
domain names do that for people with well known domain names, and verification processes do that for people without
How does bluesky make money?
I’m shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Decentralized, yeah sure!
Lucky_777@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Figured they would go down this route. Don’t use it anyway