Technology Connections on YT has. Awhile rant about this. youtu.be/U0YW7x9U5TQ?si=SZaEzNCDKoLXhx83
Why haven't car manufacturers standardized automatic brake lights when a built in accelerometer detects deceleration?
Submitted 4 months ago by FuryMaker@lemmy.world to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
Comments
not_woody_shaw@lemmy.world 4 months ago
chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 4 months ago
A rant? Alec? Surely, you jest.
popekingjoe@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Alec would never rant about anything! (/s)
Creat@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
Because there are laws that specify when the brake light has to come on, and it isn’t when the car shows down (slightly). You could be starting to go up hill, or a list of other reasons. The point of brake lights isn’t too signify the car slowing, but that the driver intends to slow down. Which is also why it doesn’t come on if you’re motor breaking" (is that the right term?).
This obviously varies wildly depending on where you are in the world. I’m also sure there are some places where it would be allowed.
Jimbo@yiffit.net 4 months ago
Which is also why it doesn’t come on if you’re motor breaking" (is that the right term?)
I believe the term you technically want is engine braking
Creat@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
Oh yes, that sounds right. Thanks!
pokemaster787@ani.social 4 months ago
Because there are laws that specify when the brake light has to come on, and it isn’t when the car shows down (slightly).
To be clear, the laws say when it must illuminate. They do not (in the US) prevent illuminating it for other reasons in any way. The law says the light must illuminate/burn if you are actively pressing the gas pedal, but does not prevent it from also illuminating if a certain amount of regenerative braking is applied or a deceleration is detected. Theoretically an automaker could get away with making the brake lights simply always illuminate (and that loophole would be fixed in days, so no one does it).
Creat@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
That is indeed US-specific. I’m in the EU, and here it’s defined by when and how it’s switched. Specifically, it is required to be tied to the brake pedal (i.e. then intention to brake) and/or the hand brake being pulled. It is not allowed to illuminate otherwise. But the exact specifics probably also vary by country here. That’s why I emphasized that part.
Dkarma@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Because deceleration is not braking and conflating the two is extremely dangerous.
Think for more than 2 seconds plz
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 4 months ago
I am honestly flabbergasted that people think this is a good idea. This would basically mean that the brake light would stay on almost all the time that you weren’t actively accelerating.
There would be so many more highway accidents. I heavily rely on the brake lights of the cars in front of me to drive defensively. They tell me when I should expect to put my brake on.
If brake lights turn on just because some took their foot off the gas, I can’t tell the difference between a gradual slowdown and an intent to stop, so it would make it way more likely that I wouldn’t brake in time to avoid a collision in a sudden stop of traffic.
Brake lights should only ever indicate that a driver has their foot on the brake. I absolutely must have this information delivered to me reliably. If the meaning of brake lights changed as recommended here, I would be legitimately scared of highway driving.
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 4 months ago
This would basically mean that the brake light would stay on almost all the time that you weren’t actively accelerating.
As I understand the idea of “single pedal operation”, taking your foot off the accelerator pedal initiates regenerative braking. If your foot is not on the accelerator, you are braking, and the brake lights should be illuminated. But the brake lights are normally controlled by the brake pedal. You are braking without touching that brake pedal; the lights will not come on.
OP is trying to solve that.
brygphilomena@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The issue is with regenerative braking and single pedal operation of EVs. Many vehicles today will essentially brake if you aren’t on the accelerator.
Personally, I think it’s a gap in design/regulation. But not as simple as brake pedals.
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Because the brake light indicates braking, and is connected to the brake? This is already a perfect solution.
An accelerometer is a terrible idea to replace this. You would have to cover the car with sensors and tune them so that accelerating uphill doesn’t trigger the brake light, and that braking downhill will successfully trigger the brake light.
ChapulinColorado@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s not a perfect solution for EVs and Hybrids that can slow down quickly without pressing the brake. Technology connections has a full video on the matter, but basically things need to be updated for current tech if we want to avoid accidents due to information not being relayed to other drivers.
ExperiencedWinter@lemmy.world 4 months ago
There are EVs that handle this by using a deceleration threshold, but that is not the same as just strapping an accelerometer to a car.
bamfic@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Ok i’ll bite. Because why? How can you decelrate quickly enough to need to notify the driver behind you without braking?
doggle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
Engine or regenerative braking can very quickly slow down a vehicle but may not activate the brake lights depending on the manufacturer.
Or crashing, I guess.
Appleseuss@lemmy.world 4 months ago
EVs have regenerative braking, where when you let off the accelerator, it immediately starts slowing down, quickly. But the brake lights don’t come on. This would make driving behind EVs safer.
intensely_human@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Perhaps when EVs use regenerative braking, they should display their brake lights. Use brakes, show brake lights, same rule as before just enforce it.
intensely_human@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Perhaps when EVs use regenerative braking, they should display their brake lights. Use brakes, show brake lights, same rule as before just enforce it.
petersr@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I would like to share this with you: youtu.be/U0YW7x9U5TQ
Psythik@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Other than regen braking like everyone said (which really slows down a car almost effectively as brakes when set to the highest regen setting; look up “one pedal driving”), you can also slow down a car quite rapidly in a manual transmission if you skip a year or two when downshifting. No brake lights come on when you do this, and honestly I think that they should.
John_McMurray@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Old auto trannys didn’t have a bypass. You dropped to first some obeyed
EvacuateSoul@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Jake brakes in big trucks, but most of them do show brake lights now even though you just coast to activate them. Some drivers like to turn them off because it makes you look like a dangerous rookie in the mountains if your brake lights are on consistently while going downhill.
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
A related tangent is now that there are so many distracted drivers, engine braking in a standard can become hazardous. I often will tap my foot on the brake so the people behind will register that my speed is decreasing.
XeroxCool@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I beleive that should be common practice when down shifting to slow because it’s not much different from braking without any brake lights. However, I’ve come to also trigger the lights even when coasting down in top gear. The slightly harder engine braking in a manual, even in top gear, combined with the increase of distractions, has me concerned about the same thing as you.
0ops@lemm.ee 4 months ago
I heal-toe, so I’m pressing the brake as I’m engine breaking. But I think I’ve read somewhere that newer manuals actually will turn on the brake light on heavy deceleration via engine brakes, I just don’t know firsthand because every very I’ve owned has been old as shit. Ditto with electric cars that have aggressive regen braking.
magnolia_mayhem@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Same here
boonhet@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Similarly, even though most cars with cruise control have a cancel button, I always cancel via a gentle tap of the brake pedal instead. Quick flash of the brake lights to let people know I’m about to slow down.
Annually2747@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Standardised is a funny word, a car manufacturer doesn’t standardise. Laws and 3rd parties like ANCAP do.
When they need to do it to sell it with certain safety requirements, they will.
However, even if those happen, and car makers today start building them with that, it’ll take a decade or longer before you’ll start seeing them in majority on the road. So even if you lobby for it, expect time since I’d say less than half of all people buy new cars, so it’s not until the second hand market sees it will it be commonplace.
Right now the second hand market is starting to see things like collision avoidance systems and they will often flash brake lights when emergency braking on behalf of the driver.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Because your life isn’t worth the extra dollar to them.
Etterra@lemmy.world 4 months ago
More accurately, if they added one single extra component like that, they would raise the MSRP by like $500. Because we live in capitalist hell. Therefore, it’s included in higher quality cars, and/or as an optional feature. Like most safety anything, they won’t automatically include it in anything unless they are literally forced to by law. And even then though sometimes not and say they did. And still up charge you for it. Isn’t capitalism fan-fucking-tastic?
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
They take the worst of the three options. They don’t eat the dollar, they don’t put it in the base model for 500 dollars extra, they lock it behind the big wheels, sporty engine, and wood trim so only the rich people have safety features that aren’t absolutely required by law.
treadful@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
That’s a fairly complicated system to replace what is just an ultra simple switch at the pedal. The latter is even pretty likely to last the life of the car.
Hjalamanger@feddit.nu 4 months ago
The problem is with electric cars that can be driven with one pedal most of the time
Corngood@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
I was thinking about this last time I drove an ev (ioniq 5). It will really decelerate quite hard when you lift off, and it’s configurable by the driver.
I don’t think they need to do it with an accelerometer, but if the regeneration system is applying more braking force than it would take to turn on the light with the brake pedal, it should turn the light on.
Either that or they should require the brake pedal to be used beyond that point.
Mac@mander.xyz 4 months ago
I personally think cars should have two brake light switches. one for when you’re pressing the pedal at all, and one for when you’re slamming on the pedal.
that way the people behind you know if you’re just slowing down a little or actually braking.
Scafir@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
Actually, a least some cars (probably more than you think)/have some sort of “emergency” breaking signal, which often result in the usual breaking signal blinking for a while. You need to seriously slam the brakes to see it though. E.g: m.youtube.com/watch?v=j_osu1WgGMU
There is also a nice technology connection video talking about braking lights for electric cars and in general, which can be dangerous.
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
I rented an electric car recently (Mach-E) and almost exclusively drove in single-pedal mode.
Thought a lot about this video as I was driving.
XeroxCool@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I’ve seen some people play with the programming of BMWs. I was really impressed with one I saw that had 3 levels of lighting. It didn’t affect the actual brake lights but instead utilized the rear fog light. Normal braking was just the normal lights. Moderate braking turned on the rear fog lights. But when he slammed the brakes, the rear fogs flashed.
I was also pissed to be in traffic that allowed for all 3 modes in a few miles.
blackn1ght@feddit.uk 4 months ago
Most modern cars now put the hazards on automatically when the driver brakes hard.
JokklMaster@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Source? I have never seen a single car that does this.
magnolia_mayhem@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I know cats that blink the moisture light if you brake hard.
Aux@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Upvote for typo.
Dark_Arc@social.packetloss.gg 4 months ago
I try (if I have time myself to do it without hitting someone and am just in front a mess) to “wake people up” a bit by rapidly tapping the brakes before hitting them hard (to hopefully make my brake lights flash).
invertedspear@lemm.ee 4 months ago
You can buy special brake light kits to do this automatically.
ID411@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
I have a 2016 beemer. it can do that. Might even be a requirement in Germany - idk
manmachine@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I seem to remember that when BMW first rolled out LED taillights they did something like this — they were brighter when the driver absolutely slammed on the brakes. No idea if that was a concept or in production cars though.
I_Miss_Daniel@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I reach for the hazard lights any time I’m about to break hard or if someone in front has done something that will make me slow unexpectedly.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
They get brighter based on how much you push the brake
thenextguy@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Two colors, amber for slowing, red for hard braking.
Omgpwnies@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I always figured red and red strobing would make sense, since amber is used for turn signals. Not sure if that would fly for epilepsy and such though, but there are plenty of other bright flashy/flickery lights when driving as it is.
needanke@feddit.org 4 months ago
There is a Technology Connections video about this xD:
Deebster@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
Between XKCD and Alec, the whole of human knowledge’s pretty much covered.
EtzBetz@feddit.de 4 months ago
I would like if cars would somehow indicate how strong they are braking. Like a meter filling, the light starting to blink after a certain threshold and blinking faster etc.
TheMightyCanuck@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Some newer higher end models do this. It’s an emergency brake feature that flashes the brake lights rapidly when braking heavily.
Should be standardized or something similar should be
nilloc@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
One foot EV driving does turn on the brake lights when it exceeds a certain deceleration amount.
But most EVs default to slowly charging the car and slowing it in a similar way to ICE compression braking (which uses 0 fuel in fuel injected cars BTW).
Anyway regardless of how the vehicle is slowing down, the NHTSA allows for the brake lights to be activated by other devices that slow the car (not just the pedal), and the UN requires brake lights be applied if the vehicle deceleration exceeds
PhotatoMan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
This is probably country/region specific but my car (Tesla) illuminates the brake lights when it detects a certain level of deceleration. Also my work vehicles (Volvo V90 CrossCountry and XC60) do this. Finland/Sweden in my case. My car also flash the hazards when it detects hard braking and I’ve seen quite many euro cars do this. I agree that this should be standard.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
That’s how the car knows to deploy the safety systems including the seatbelt and airbags
gedaliyah@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I feel like thete must be a Technology Connections video about this.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 4 months ago
I’ve driven rentals that put the brake lights on if you did not have a foot on the gas, and only lit a 3rd brake light when actually pressing the brake. Dunno why it isn’t more common tho.
John_McMurray@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Some semi tractors have implemented brake lights that activate under exhaust braking, and its fucking annoying.
beefbot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
It’s worth asking who makes money off of them not doing so. Any ideas? Like, maybe all their related repair shops, parts manufacturers, dealerships for when the damage was too much? That’s all lost revenue if they make things safer. & if the NTSB doesn’t make them do it, they won’t
magnolia_mayhem@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I thought the same thing about blinkers and turning the wheel.
guy@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Not a car, but I’ve got a bicycle light that does this. Turns on when it’s dark and also when you brake. So definitely possible
YeetPics@mander.xyz 4 months ago
$
fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 4 months ago
There’s a reason race vehicles don’t have brake lignts.
franglais@lemm.ee 4 months ago
I always wanted a similar system to what you see in racing video games, when they display input controls. A red and green bar on the rear of the vehicle which shows accelerator pedal position, and a red bar which, in real life would have to show deceleration, as a percentage of theoretical maximum, rather than pedal position, as in the games.
viking@infosec.pub 4 months ago
Declaration can happen through a variety of means. Simply not accelerating would be the first one, due to friction. But even steadily accelerating on an upward slope would decrease the vehicle’s speed, and you don’t want to give vehicles behind the idea that a stop is being initiated.
CleoTheWizard@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You’ve spelled out the entire problem but have come to incorrect conclusions. If you’re directly behind a car, it becomes hard to sense acceleration or deceleration of other vehicles. More importantly, the brake is often used to decelerate on highways and not initiate a stop. This all leads to a lot of confusion and ultimately crashes every year.
The situations you mentioned are exactly the problem areas. Not accelerating it slowing down, often quite quickly, to make an exit. Dangerous. Going up a slope may or may not change speed, which needs to be known. Again dangerous. Same with downhill which is actually more dangerous not knowing how hard braking is happening.
So we have the technology to fix this. We can invent either variable break lights that change brightness or zoned lights that tell you “I’m slowing down” versus “I’m braking hard”. We could fix this because cars are dangerous enough as is