Submitted 1 year ago by GreyTechnician@lemm.ee to games@lemmy.world
So much on point. Gaming is about content these days, so stretch it out.
How many got annoyed with Diablo IV nerfs which Activision adopt on every game they release. Suck people in then nerf it to make you spend more time doing the same thing over again. I didn’t invest time or money into this, and I have to admit I felt very smug when I read about them doing this.
Gaming should be about entertainment, today’s triple A efforts just aren’t.
Yeeeeah. No padding in old games. None at all.
Somebody hasn't gone back to play mainstream games on the PS2 era recently, when large developers had a fraction of the money and any game below 30 hours was ruthlessly slammed online for being "too short" and "not good value".
I swear, people use the term "triple-A" just to refer to bits of gaming they don't like, regardless of who made them or for how much money. The term is meaningless by now.
I have never played any PS2 games. Maybe that is the problem. What was acceptable for a console has become the norm now on a PC. But, if you are happy with the bloatware that games have become then good for you. I will not be supporting them with my cash.
I feel like the word content itself is completely wrongheaded. How much “content” does Tetris have? What would more content in a game like that even be?
So many of the responses to this (and the original video) boil down to "me like good games that I like, no like bad games I don't like".
I promise there were boring, repetitive, grindy games all through gaming history. This isn't a "modern gaming" thing.
MMO games have been doing this shit since WOW became a thing
I mean I remember grinding for loot and levels in FF1.
If you think the WOW grind is bad, you should’ve seen Everquest or Ultima Online.
Pretty much from the dawn of gaming. There was another video posted just the other day about ADOM and how it’s pretty much unplayable unless you’re willing to put endless hours in to learn and memorize all the inscrutable details it makes use of, mostly by dying constantly.
I like games to be a chore on my terms. Will I grind for a mirror in path of exile, yes. Will I complete a battle pass, do my daily quests and get my log in bonus? Fuck off.
Yeah this is me. Tell me “Find 10/25 Bloblins in the area to continue” and I get upset, but instead tell me “There are 25 Bloblins on this map”, and if there’s an cool optional prize with it then you bet I’ll spend time scouring the map for Bloblins.
I enjoy things the most when I can set the goals with just some hinting from the game. If it’s just something trying to manufacture attention to the game it’s a big turn-off.
While I agree with the title, this particular analysis is kind of shallow. It’s one thing to analyze predatory game design, but here it’s mostly “I don’t like this so it’s bad”. It’s also very narrowly focusing on AAA open world. Old AAA open worlds were much worse. Remember how empty and soulless the first Far Cry and AssCreed were?
I laughed when the author makes a bunch of examples where he calls cutscenes a waste of time. I don’t like action games for example and I can’t find any enjoyment in Dark Souls, but I’m not going to argue that it’s a waste of time or ignore the fact that people genuinely like it.
And then he goes on to say that modern games are made by random people in tech that aren’t into gaming. I mean, bro, have you tried applying for a fucking job as a game developer?? Participated in a lunch break at a gaming company where 90% of people only talk about videogames?
And then he goes on to say that modern games are made by random people in tech that aren’t into gaming. I mean, bro, have you tried applying for a fucking job as a game developer?? Participated in a lunch break at a gaming company where 90% of people only talk about videogames?
Yeah. I guarantee there’s nobody in game develop that isn’t into gaming. Not only is game development much harder than regular web development you also get paid less and are usually treated worse. I love gaming but I wouldn’t go into game development because it’s just not worth the effort for me. I’ll much rather do my cushy regular tech work and have more time playing games.
It depends. There are some people here and there. But also, you don't need to be a hardcore gamer to do a LOT of the technical work in gaming. Mostly you just need to be really good at coding and somehow prefer decent snacks and a lax dress code to money and job stability.
There was another post last night at around the same time saying “Why aren’t games fun anymore?”
This entire thing feels shallow as hell and just one angry dude who’s pissed about things not being like they used to be so he’s whining about it to other people who are angry.
There is literally nothing objective about this. It’s all using heavy skewed data to try and prove its point. He has absolutely no clue what he’s talking about. He’s just angry and saying things that he thinks are intelligent to try and back up his point.
Only thing I’ve discovered from this post is another “analyzer” to avoid at all possible costs.
This type of nostalgia porn is pretty popular on Youtube, but usually they at least make some valid point. Not in this case though.
It’s also funny how Skyrim is presented as one of the ‘cool’ games, glossing over the fact that it has a massive, slow exposition dump at the beginning, which was criticized ever since it launched.
I’m having just as much or even more fun than I had 30 years ago.
You do however have to refrain from buying any overhyped AAA game when it comes out and wait maybe a year or two until people’s reviews on it are out.
Then under those conditions I can avoid heavilly monetised games like the plague: not just microtransaction crap but also things with Season Passes and even games with lots of DLCs as lots of those are usually a bad sign.
In the last few years I also just avoid MMORPGs because I don’t really want to have responsability towards other people (such as guild members to go on scheduled raids) and prefer setups were I can do things according when I feel like it and can.
Basically give yourself time to find out from others how the game really is, then avoid anything with even the slightest wiff of having a business model that gains from people spending a significant proportion of their life in the game as those tend to have lots of grindy stuff, scheduled events that you “cannot miss” and lots and lots of disguised (and not so disguised) sales push - for the whole work for a living whilst being constantly under pressure from sales pushes trying to sell you useless shit, there’s already Real Life.
Funnily enough, I end up mainly playing Indie games and older AAA games and I do mean it when I say I have as much or even more fun as I ever did gaming - it probably helps that I’ve long transcended the dazzle whatever passes for hyper-realistic graphics at the tech level of that time and care way more about gameplay since that’s were the fun is and I play games for fun, not for artistic appreciation.
There are definitely games that are designed to pull as much money from the player as possible, just avoid them. Don’t buy them, don’t play them.
It’s not just the playing, even the buying can be a chore, as you’ll have to dig through dozens of different versions, DLC, and season passes to figure out what you are even buying, most of the time the actual online shop doesn’t even tell you, you have to search around forums to figure out what you get. Starting one of those Ultimate Edition that includes everything also means spending 5min clicking though dozens of “You just bought DLC” notifications.
Getting late into a game series is also always “fun”, as you can’t even tell what is a prequel, sequel, spin-off or whatever, as most content no longer puts a number in the title. That’s another trip to Wikipedia, as I have yet to see any online shop providing that information.
Needless to say, I stick mostly with older games. I can’t stand how every modern game needs to have skill trees, collectives, level ups and hundred different weapons that all look and feel the same.
theres always been games that feel like a chore
donkey kong on n64 had you what go collect bananas or something? is that fun? some werent even found until a few years ago
ghostbusters on nes is an entire chore made into a “game”
donkey kong on n64 had you what go collect bananas or something? is that fun?
I don’t know what caused people to all of a sudden complain about this game (maybe a dunkey video?). This game is still fun by modern standards regrdless of whether you 100% it or not
Hey, I liked NES ghostbusters. You got to design your own car, bust ghosts, and worry about your business’ finances. Of course I haven played it in over 30 years so I imagine the rose-colored glasses might be a problem.
Nah, I enjoyed Baldur’s Gate 3, Elden Ring, Tears of the Kingdom, and yes even Starfield enough to give them up just because rage-bait Youtubers told me to. Just like I’ll eventually probably pickup Super Mario Bros. Wonder and Spiderman 1 and 2 at some point along with many other AAA games that I think I’ll have fun playing in the near future.
I dont include bg3, elden ring and totk in the AAA category. AAA no longer means high quality and fun, it means made by huge companies with more money than balls. CoD is a AAA game. And its shit. For example.
Other than Assassin’s creed and I have enjoyed pretty much all of the big releases (I might just be fatigued with assassins creed, origins was too long and they just got longer after that).
First off the idea that “other people share this opinion” is some form of validation of said opinion is…less than persuasive. “The earth is flat and you can find lots of people online saying the same thing” is an example of why you can just rest on other people agreeing with you as being the primary support of your positions. And it’s one of the first things brought up in the video so clearly this person feels it’s important to bring up.
Secondly the idea that older games respected your time or weren’t getting us ridiculous. From core MMO designs, to JRPGs there are plenty of examples of old games that waste your time in some way or another.
It also sounds like he is saying that all games need to be simple games like Tetris. No story/cutscenes and no complicated game design that someone had to spend time learning. That’s certainly an opinion, but I don’t agree that game developers should only make games that target one specific person’s taste.
Opinion arguments, like “gaming feels like a chore” require different support from fact arguments like, “the world is flat.” You absolutely can not prove the world is flat, gravity works, or birds are real with an opinion poll, but a poll will support whether newer games are less fun or Coke is better than Pepsi.
IMO, the best argument against the video is that he’s focused on old games that he still plays - he’s comparing the best of old games with whatever has just come out. I’d argue that there’s something special and unique about a game you can still play a decade later - it’s not the story, which is definitely going to get tiring after 10-20 playthroughs; it’s not the quests for the same reason. Game mechanics, decent pacing for that one-more-turn feel, and maybe just aesthetic appeal. Where would he put games like Minecraft or Valheim, both of which rely heavily on resource farming and repetitive building?
I think that many of the new, big titles have tried to capture all possible niches - part FPS, part RPG, part basebuilder - and it’s hard to make all of those seem important to the game without forcing FPS players to do basebuilding and basebuilders to do RPG. That takes away from each person’s enjoyment of their preferred mechanic and imposes tedium.
Opinion arguments, like “gaming feels like a chore” require different support from fact arguments like, “the world is flat.”
Sure, but “other people say this” isn’t going to hold much sway in pretty much any context. It’s not really worth bringing up at all.
I think that many of the new, big titles have tried to capture all possible niches - part FPS, part RPG, part basebuilder - and it’s hard to make all of those seem important to the game without forcing FPS players to do basebuilding and basebuilders to do RPG.
Some do, but plenty don’t. Just like there are plenty of indie games not worth playing, there are plenty of AAA games you can avoid if you don’t think you’ll enjoy it.
Yes, because 22 years ago nobody thought Animal Crossing felt like a chore.
Hey, don’t mess up with the game that saved the sanity of uncountable people in the pandemic!
I’ve boycotted all GaS and live service games. I’ve never been happier and now I play the games I want to play not because I have to
Very complicated way of saying “I didn’t like this, so I stopped doing it.”
Well, duh.
As someone who played/plays a lot of MMOs and stuff like Destiny/The Division: You'd be amazed at the number of people who don't get to step two of that simple statement.
People who are just downright angry at a game but still actively playing... "Man, I can't believe they're forcing me to go into PvP to get [some arbitrary weapon or cosmetic item]!" they grumble, not realizing that they don't need to tick that little check box in their collection.
People who say things like "I grinded out this holiday season and bought the event pass and I didn't even like the stuff it offered!" is perhaps not technically 'common', but that kind of situation happens often enough that I'm a bit worried for gamers as a whole.
Its some kind of weird combination of a hoarder's mentality, a sunk cost fallacy, and probably some FOMO sprinkled on top... all mixed together by some psychologist on a company's payroll to maximize profits.
Dude is spot on with Starfield. I’ve played the shit out of so many Bethesda games. I was SO excited for Starfield. But I just didn’t have the time. I didn’t even get to that planet where he does the quests, I just quit and I’m afraid that if I pick it up I’ll accomplish nothing in the little time I have.
(Preface - I’ve not yet picked up Starfield, though I have hundreds [far too many] hours in other Bethesda games; Cyberpunk 2.0, though, has thoroughly captured my attention.)
I hear what you’re saying, but the YouTube commenter apparently loves Elden Ring, which I found to be an awful game and painful to play. Man, I love complex, deeply explorable games, but I played Elden Ring for 8 hours and never felt like I was making an inch of pleasurable progress. The commenter complains about games being a chore, but what about games like Elden Ring that aren’t chores, but are literal punishment?
I guess I had trouble accepting the commenters point of view after he rah-rah’d for Elden Ring…
The point of elden ring and its siblings is the feeling of earned progress through effort and skill. You learn how to kill a boss slowly, and you fight and grapple for every level to build that strength. You do a similar thing with the environment.
The complaint of chores is one of tedium, not challenge. You dont learn to complete the chore list, you just fill time with it.
If you dont enjoy the challenge souls games offer you, its not your type of fun. But I feel the same way about car games, doesnt mean theres fault in the racing genre.
Elden Ring really scratches that exploratory game itch. Every meter felt worth visiting. You never really know what awaits in the next corner. If you’re lucky it might be the entrance to a completely unique area, all with its own set of enemies and bosses. It’s a game that dares to put an optional secret area behind a secret area behind another secret area.
Even on second play through I was caught off guard by some new surprises.
Compare it to Tears of the Kingdom for example. Wherever you go, you will find the same sets of enemies and often even the same environmental assets. After you’ve visited a few of the sky archipelago islands there’s few other surprises to see there. Encountering the first Flux Construct is a fun challenge, but after the 20th one it has turned into a mindless chore.
Elden ring was such a great game for me, I’m really sick of these movies with extra steps kind of game. To each their own I guess.
I tried Elden Ring because the kids were loving it. I gave it about 3 hours and I still didn’t really know what was going on.
I always considered myself a dedicated gamer, like gaming was my sole hobby. Lately the last game I really could get fully into was stardew valley because I could fit in a single “day” or two in my schedule and finish on a hype every time.
Last RPG I played I had to make note of what was happening because by the time I picked up the game again I forgot what was happening.
I feel this way too, I’m currently doing all the riddles in Batman Arkham Knight, and although some are fun, most of them are boring.
I think most current games don’t even consider the fun factor anymore 😆
Remember when we could wreck the game with cheats like in GTA San Andreas or alike?
I used to just mess around with a buddy in the city doing whatever we wanted in the most uncomfortable form of local multiplayer that the PS2 offered.
Modern gaming? I’m playing war thunder since 2016 (with interruptions) and it feels like a chore since 7 years. Now as I think of it, the chores began for me back in the 90s in a point and click adventure on a 286 PC.
Stop buying exclusively AAA games then. They rarely try anything new and their primary design goals are to get you hooked so you buy more crap.
Pretty much yeah, there is a reason why Madden and FIFA (formerly) were top sellers every year with extremely minimal changes. It’s a safe game that sold like crazy. Same with Call of Duty. If we want something fresh, indie games for the most part try not to fall into the saturated market and stand out above their peers
I clicked it and the ad (Before my ad blocker kicked on) was for Eve online.
So slightly less modern games are chores as well!
Starfield has too many loading screens to be fun. I have the game on an SSD, but it’s still way too much.
Truck Simulator players would disagree.
This is what got me to stop playing genshin impact. I might play it again if they ever complete the story and grasscutter catches up on the quests though.
Holy shit I was just thinking this last night. I picked up Death Stranding Dirt Cheap and I’ve been working through the the Mountain region. And all I kept thinking was this entire thing felt like a chore. Like I just want to progress the damn story. At that point I decided I won’t be wasting my money on games that take 40+ hours to beat.
There’s just not enough time in our lives and so many great games to still play.
It’s honestly amazing even more games don’t feel like a chore considering how many of them involve playing a character doing their job.
Haha that is a good point
I've always thought that a lot of DLC and preorder bonuses are basically an admission that you won't enjoy all of the game, you'll just feel obligated to get through it. Like, if part of the game is earning coins, then that should be enjoyable, right? It's part of the game, and games should be fun, so you should want to do that. So the fact that they let you pay more money to skip that aspect of the game really shows that many game mechanics are just not enjoyable anymore. They aren't even meant to be enjoyable; it's more profitable to put un-fun game mechanics in.
Imagine if preordering Sonic the Hedgehog 2 allowed you to skip Emerald Hill Zone and Chemical Plant Zone. No one would do that -- that's the content you bought the game for! You wouldn't pay extra to skip it.
People enjoy different things about games, but I’m with you on that. If I didn’t want to go through the process of leveling up my character and gear, I just wouldn’t play the game. No way am I gonna pay more for the “privilege” of skipping any amount of the game I’m buying.
BmeBenji@lemm.ee 1 year ago
If a game even remotely looks like a chore, I’m passing. I don’t have time to just mosey around limitless planets, mining for resources to build a gun or some shit.
Unless you let me swing around like fuckin Spiderman. Nothing’s a chore when you get to swing from chore to chore like fuckin spiderman. Fuckin cool ass bitch with the pendulums and zipping and swinging and shit. Fuckin love spiderman.
ShroOmeric@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Did you just say you love spiderman. That part wasn’t clear…
Radicaldog@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No, he wants to swing around while fucking Spider Man. And who doesn’t?
hperrin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Did you remember to collect all the backpacks around New York and take pictures of all the landmarks though? Plus, you gotta beat all those Screwball challenges if you want all the suits.
BmeBenji@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Yup, and I loved every minute of it. Traversal and combat in that game were so much fun that none of it felt like a chore
fushuan@lemm.ee 1 year ago
In a game where running is fun, running all over the place won’t feel like a chore. Well, only if you don’t use the metro. Once you start fast travelling it begins losing appeal.
ech@lemm.ee 1 year ago
If you want to be a completionist, you can’t blame the game. Spider-man is perfectly playable without finding every single collectible and completing every challenge.
Grass@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Spider-man games are one of my favourite. I really liked the recent one and the 1.5 featuring miles. I’ve lost count of how many I have blown days on. Prototype, hulk, etc., were decent but I generally prefer the spider-man games with spider man in them. That said my favourite spider-man game is gravity rush. I included the ‘-’ in spider-man because he told me to in at least one of the games.
BmeBenji@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I dunno. If anyone knows how to spell Spider-man correctly, it’s probably not some entitled self-righteous millennial
hperrin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s because that’s how you spell Spider-Man.