Google and major mobile carriers want Europe to regulate Apple's iMessage platform

Submitted ⁨⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Salamendacious@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://www.engadget.com/google-and-eu-mobile-carriers-push-european-commission-to-force-apple-to-open-imessage-110558675.html

The long fight to make Apple’s iMessage compatible with all devices has raged with little to show for it. But Google (de facto leader of the charge) and other mobile operators are now leveraging the European Union’s Digital Market Act (DMA), according to the Financial Times. The law, which goes into effect in 2024, requires that “gatekeepers” not favor their own systems or limit third parties from interoperating within them. Gatekeepers are any company that meets specific financial and usage qualifications, including Google’s parent company Alphabet, Apple, Samsung and others.

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kirklennon@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

On the tech side, Android users also get lower-quality photos and videos when they're sent through iMessage.

Android users don’t receive anything at all through iMessage; the whole conversation becomes SMS/MMS. I suppose getting major, relevant tech details is hard for an outlet like Engadget.

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- sanpo@sopuli.xyz ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I think you’re just being pedantic here.
  
  I’m pretty sure they meant when messages are sent using the iMessage app - from the point of view of iPhone user distinction between iMessage protocol and SMS/MMS doesn’t matter.
  
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  - kirklennon@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The app is called Messages. The entire point of the article is to discuss the iMessages versus SMS so I absolutely do think it’s important to get the distinction right in this case.
    
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- lolcatnip@reddthat.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  when they’re sent through iMessage.
  
  Android users don’t receive anything at all through iMessage
  
  Your whole argument is based on failing to distinguish sending from receiving. You understand those are different things, right?
  
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  - kirklennon@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    There is nothing to distinguish here. iMessage is the protocol and messaging platform. An iMessage sent remains as an iMessage when received. Android users are not sent and do not receive iMessages. They are sent SMS/MMS and they receive SMS/MMS.
    
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- someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  So you want “when their sent [from] iMessage”? I think you’re being really pedantic.
  
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  - kirklennon@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    They’re not sent from iMessage. That is the point. If you write an article in a tech publication talking about messaging apps and protocols, you need to get the names right.
    
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- SinTacks@programming.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Low quality SMS. There are lots of things Apple could do to improve the experience of texting people without iMessage, lots of things built into the SMS standard that they do t implement.
  
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  - fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    What on earth is “low quality SMS”? And what parts of the SMS communication protocols don’t they implement?
    
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  - kirklennon@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Basically Apple hasn’t adopted industry standard SMS improvements. There’s a whole campaign to try to get them to.
    
    This is an advertising campaign to get Apple to adopt Google's proprietary version of RCS, which is not the SMS standard. It is, functionally, Google's own version of iMessage, running Google software on Google servers.
    
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  - kogasa@programming.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    RCS is not SMS and has nothing to do with the SMS standard.
    
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  - lemmylommy@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    What exactly?
    
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joyjoy@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
But nobody in Europe uses iMessage.

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- tony@lemmy.hoyle.me.uk ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I presume apple users do occasionally…
  
  I guess this is a way for google to force apple to open the protocol since they can’t just open it in the EU, so it affects the US too. But the EU don’t have to listen to google… if imessage is such a minor player they may just leave it alone.
  
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  - narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    We use it when WhatsApp has server problems every once in a while or for a round of GamePigeon.
    
    Ironically, in Europe you’d be “missing out” on most group conversations if you’d insist on using iMessage, as most of your buddies probably have an Android phone with WhatsApp installed.
    
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  - ByteJunk@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The EU won’t leave Apple alone, that’s the whole purpose of the Digital Markets Act (prevent “gatekeepers” from excluding other players).
    
    The irony here is that Google is throwing stones when they have huge glass roofs. This law will certainly bite them back elsewhere, hopefully. We need strong laws to curb these modern day robber barons.
    
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  - JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Not really.
    
    For example, in Sweden, probably half as high of a percentage of people have iPhones as the US and yet everyone uses Facebook messenger and whatsapp, at least when I studied there 5 years ago.
    
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- someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  I never understood why WhatsApp is so popular. I used it (a long time ago) and just don’t see it.
  
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  - nicetriangle@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Basically in a lot of Europe texting was or still is expensive and not unlimited and WhatsApp was a free alternative and Meta did not own it at the time.
    
    So everyone was like well fuck texting and adopted apps like WhatsApp and then Meta bought WhatsApp. Now in these countries it's the defacto standard whether you like it or not. Businesses, people, and even sometimes government uses it as the default way to text. It sucks.
    
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  - Apollo2323@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Because it gave the possibility of free text and calling over the internet , that was a big deal for many developing countries and it is very simple to use. Like I heard some Apple fanboys said that iMessage comes already installed with the phone? And on my mind I am like : How hard is to download an app and just put your phone number you are up and running in less than 2 minutes.
    
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  - rishado@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    No other country offered unlimited texting back in the day.
    
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- simple@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  [deleted]
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  - joyjoy@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    iMessage technically isn’t SMS. It just supports it as an additional protocol. On Android, Facebook Messenger and Signal behave similarly.
    
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- Swarfega@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  No. But we have the same reliance now on WhatsApp as the US does with iMessage.
  
  I’d love to see RCS become the norm so I can ditch WhatsApp.
  
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- LWD@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  [deleted]
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  - pascal@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Ted Lasso? That TV series created by check notes Apple?
    
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  - sunbeam60@lemmy.one ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s WhatsApp through and through.
    
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deweydecibel@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The fuck is with all these comments? Since when are we siding with Apple and closed off communications standards around here?

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- snowe@programming.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Since Google is just trying to get people to use their closed off communication standard (they added a bunch of stuff to RCS and that’s what they want the eu to force Apple to use). And I don’t trust Google with anything anymore, not sure why you would. The killed by Google website is proof enough of that.
  
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  - my_blackest_day@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I love the fact that Lemmy users here don’t know shit about how these tech works and they will jump on Apple hate every chance they get.
    
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  - JasSmith@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    The EU isn’t going to swap one closed proprietary service for another. If iMessage is included under the DMA as a core platform service, it will require Apple to permit interoperability. I.e. the creation of open APIs. Google, and anyone else, can choose to build connectors into their own apps.
    
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- my_blackest_day@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Since we know Apple is the lesser of 2 evils and Google is a crying baby
  
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- mintiefresh@lemmy.ca ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It’s a bit shocking to see actually. But Lemmy kind of surprised me from time to time.
  
  Anyhow, it would be really nice to see iMessage work with RCS.
  
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- AWittyUsername@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  We’re not. Just calling out the hypocrisy of Google.
  
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kaitco@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
This feels a bit like asking MS Teams to play nice with Google Meet, or demanding that Apple’s office suite (Pages, Numbers, etc.) deliver the exact same product when files are saved in an OpenOffice format. This doesn’t seem to be an issue with any other products…

Apple have designed their product to work well with their devices. The Messages app still functions with non-Apple devices. SMS messages can be sent and received to anyone. The fact that pictures and whatever come through like crap is more an issue with the SMS platform than it is with Apple’s app.

Ultimately, Google dislikes the fact that there is a “green bubble” stigma (for lack of a better word) on Apple devices that encourages those who care about such things to prefer Apple devices. Because Google doesn’t have their own widely used iMessage equivalent, they can’t turn around and make messages outside their platform appear as red bubbles or something, so they are attacking from this angle instead.

Sent from my iPhone

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- Salamendacious@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  
  Sent from my iPhone
  
  That hilarious
  
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  - deweydecibel@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    They’re not joking. They use iPhone.
    
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- Kbin_space_program@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Google is pushing RMS, which they would control, and is designed to push you ads and usage metrics back to them.
  
  I haven't seen a valid reason to get rid of SMS though.
  
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  - cm0002@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    It’s RCS not RMS and Google didnt even want control of it in the first place, it’s well documented Google has been trying to get US carriers to stop dragging their feet on RCS for a long time. They never did until Google literally went “Fine, I’ll do it myself then”
    
    AND RCS is an open protocol, nobody really has “control” over it, Google runs some RCS servers but if it disappeared tomorrow (Or you changed the defaults) RCS itself would run just fine on whatever including if Apple supports RCS
    
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  - fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Bingo. This whole case is designed to make Apple look like the bad guy whilst Google hides their real agenda of forcing Apple to use a protocol Google controls and thus stamp out Google’s competition.
    
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  - kaitco@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Google is pushing RMS, which they would control
    
    Hardest of hard passes, even if I were on Android.
    
    Again, Google don’t have their own iMessage that is widely used, so instead of compete on that level, they want to own the whole system.
    
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  - lolcatnip@reddthat.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    You’re like a lot of people on Lemmy: so eager to paint everything even tangentially connected to Google as some kind of grand conspiracy that you can’t even get the most basic facts right.
    
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- cm0002@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  It’s quite literally well documented that Apple doesn’t want to support RCS because it pressures people to get iPhones. SMS is an ancient garbage protocol, what Google is trying to do is get Apple to support SMSs 21st century replacement and RCS support will fix literally every issue iPhone users have texting Android users. Broken group chats, trash quality videos, ultra compressed images, no reactions or stickers, threaded chats etc etc
  
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  - kirklennon@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Google wants Apple to use Google’s proprietary extension of RCS, which runs on Google’s own servers as is precisely as open as iMessage. Effectively nobody uses the industry-standard version of it.
    
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- beeng@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Yes but no green bubble stigma in Europe… We all use whatsapp and signal.
  
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  - Satelllliiiiiiiteeee@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    I mean, fuck, there's no green bubble stigma in the US either. I have never once heard people complain about it in the real world
    
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  - kaitco@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Exactly. It’s a complete non-issue in Europe.
    
    Google are attempting to start this fight in Europe in hopes that they can push Apple to change in the US as well. The whole green bubble thing is US-only, but Google haven’t been even remotely successful in trying to force Apple to change, and Apple’s “remedy” to the issue is “Get an iPhone”.
    
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- deweydecibel@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Legitimately can’t tell if you’re joking or not.
  
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- Aatube@kbin.social ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  SMS is like the minimum though, and not supporting all features that could be supported by the major ones somewhat counts as gatekeeping.
  
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ICastFist@programming.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Google and company can go fuck themselves on this one, and I’m usually the first one to bash on Apple for selling overpriced status symbols.

I’m frankly amazed at how much importance Google gives iMessage, when it’s not the number 1 messaging app anywhere in the world. Hell, even if you assume Apple halved its report of monthly active users in Europe, that’s 90 million people in Europe. Significant, but less than 25% of the total population of the EU

Outside USA and Canada, you’ll be hard pressed to find people who give a damn about iMessage, because most are using a different, cross compatible app anyway, like Whatsapp or Telegram, even across most European countries.

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- Builtin@lemmy.one ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Why would you be against standardizing messaging over the net? How is that a bad thing?
  
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  - ICastFist@programming.dev ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    
    Because those aren’t internet messages, RCS is supposed to supersede SMS and MMS, which is how Google whatever (hangouts? talk? messages?) sends messages to iPhone numbers. Meanwhile, apple-apple communication via iMessage is done via internet
    
    Because the standard is mostly controlled by Google and Samsung, Apple’s biggest rivals in the mobile space
    
    Because Google has been completely anal about being easily spotted in iPhone conversations for quite a while. It is pretty obvious that this has nothing to do with using better standards. AFAIK, even phones that can use RCS have it turned off by default.
    
    Because anyone with an internet connection already has access to several widely used apps that do much more than RCS does
    
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- mojo@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  SMS would basically be dead if Apple adopted RCS, that’s why it’s important.
  
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  - Valmond@lemmy.mindoki.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Honest question, should sms die because it’s being a paid for service or for the insecurity or both or more?
    
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- someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Because apparently you get very annoying workarounds from the incompatibility.
  
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pascal@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Oh, *now *you want Europe’s strong arm? Google? Now? Fuck off, you yankee!

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- BearOfaTime@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Let’s be clear - only a subset of Americans care about the bubbles. And it’s annoying to the rest of us too.
  
  The iMessage approach is the obvious solution, Google had a competitor over 10 years ago and killed it. Signal took the same approach and killed SMS just this year.
  
  It’s frustrating, because US has the particular problem of SMS being ubiquitous because it became zero-additional-cost for most people by about 2005. The same mindset that keeps people on SMS also creates the blue-bubble nonsense: ease of use and not having to think about it. Signal was making inroads on this, makes me wonder why they stopped supporting SMS.
  
  I have friends who say “I don’t want to have to think about where to message someone”. Oh, ffs, do you struggle with calling their home/work/cell, or choosing to email or send a letter?
  
  So yea, it’s not America vs the rest of the world, it’s us vs the complacent/unaware.
  
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  - MySwellMojo@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    Call someone? In America? They’d rather text. I’m in one of these group messages, apparently my bubble is a different color. Though I like my phone from Taiwan, so they can deal with it
    
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reddig33@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
The messages app supports SMS. That means it already “interoperates” with common messaging apps and platforms.

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- joyjoy@lemm.ee ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  SMS is the bare minimum. The only reason iPhone supports it is because it was supported before iMessage was a thing. It was also so it could still communicate with “dumb” phones.
  
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- cm0002@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  SMS is an ancient garbage protocol, what Google is trying to do is get Apple to support SMSs 21st century replacement, RCS
  
  But Apple doesn’t want that because RCS support will fix literally every issue iPhone users have texting Android users. Broken group chats, trash quality videos, ultra compressed images, no reactions or stickers, threaded chats etc etc
  
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  - BURN@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
    RCS as a standard isn’t a replacement. RCS as a base project is dead.
    
    Specifically Googles implementation is a replacement, but then it’s the exact same situation we’re in now, just with Google instead of Apple.
    
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- Apollo2323@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  Lame excuse from Apple , we have to push for more open communications. Just like email.
  
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soulfirethewolf@lemdro.id ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Wrapping an internet messaging service with a text messaging system was probably one of the worst things that Apple did.

When I had switched to Android, I was hoping I’d still be able to use iMessage from my iPad occasionally, But eventually I had to give up because whenever I sent an iMessage from my email, my family would just try responding from there as well, Even when I sent a SMS message afterwards.

I managed to convince my father to download WhatsApp (since he doesn’t want to use signal or telegram, and personally, I don’t really like signals lack of external features like no smartwatch app or assistant integration. And I don’t know why not Telegram), but the only other messaging platform my mom uses is Facebook Messenger so that kind of sucks that it’s my only option for communicating outside of SMS. Can’t really convince my sister to switch to something else (and she blocked me on discord for whatever reason, probably because she’s 16 and going through this huge phase right now and I tend to use my sona for almost all online accounts as opposed to my real name)

My family kept complaining that by using something else beyond SMS, requiring them to check yet another messaging app, I’d be complicating their lives too far. But I’m still continuing because there is absolutely no reason for me and my family to be using SMS anymore, and I personally would like to have things like typing indicators and higher quality media back

On a side note, why is Facebook Messenger so much worse than WhatsApp despite being owned by the same company?

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- lemmyvore@feddit.nl ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  They didn’t make WhatsApp, they bought it. And were smart enough to leave it mostly alone. They don’t even really need to outright spy on convos, just sucking in all the contacts, building shadow profiles and figuring out relations from who’s talking to whom is worth gold.
  
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Zummy@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I get that this is a silly issue that only a subset of Americans actually care about, but if you think that Google is doing this for any other reason other than that they don’t like how popular iMessage is and want it to end, you’re fooling yourself. Google hopes to eventually make more money when one barrier between an Android and iPhone is removed.

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plz1@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
So Google will reciprocate and open up its RCS platform right? Right? I doubt it.

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- Prethoryn@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  If this law passes they may very well have to.
  
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- JasSmith@sh.itjust.works ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  They have proposed exactly that.
  
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- Rootiest@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
  RCS is an open standard not owned by Google
  
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miridius@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Nobody in EU uses SMS, it stopped being a thing as soon as everyone had phones with internet and you could use better chat apps. So we don’t give a crap about iMessage being open or not.

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dependencyinjection@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Although, I get the argument and sure go ahead and do it.

I have to laugh at Google calling for the regulation of Apples monopoly but are happy to maintain their monopolies.

It’s be like Apple calling out Bowers & Wilkins for high prices.

Or Bezos calling for more piss breaks for Walmart staff.

Glass houses and stones.

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AaronNBrock@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Until Google supports RCS on Google voice, I can’t take their requests seriously.

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RGB3x3@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
All I want is to be able to message people using discord through Signal. Or from Messages to Whatsapp.

It’s so annoying having to juggle so many different messaging apps just to talk to people.

Why can’t it be like email?

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01adrianrdgz@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
finally!! i’ve seen how google has been treating the situation with apple and i kind of think apple does have a bit of dislike-bias for android because it’s open source and linux. well, i hope apple stops the green message bubble feature.

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Erasmus@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
As much as I have been on the EU’s side on every case that they’ve had against Apple. This should be a giant red flag that Google is pushing this so hard.

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x4740N@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Good old companies wanting to exploit the law

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msbeta1421@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Apple will start selling subscription services to Android platforms including iMessage. It’s just a matter of time.

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Fades@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
Google is so fucking pathetic these days. They can’t out program them so they cry to the EU instead

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FeelThePower@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago
I don’t even know anyone who uses the messages app. even my most tech illiterate friends use a messaging app instead.

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