Submitted 1 year ago by L4s@lemmy.world [bot] to technology@lemmy.world
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/pressure-grows-apple-open-imessage-145651501.html
Pressure grows on Apple to open up iMessage::Samsung has joined Google’s campaign to force Apple to make iMessage RCS-compatible—but European regulators are more likely to get that job done.
Unless the EU makes them use RCS they never will. In the US iMessage is literally THE REASON people buy the iPhone. It’s their main selling point. They don’t care how much pressure you place on them, they aren’t going to lose those sales willingly.
I have seen people literally say they like that iMessage is exclusive, and they like to keep Android users away/separate
It was reeking of classism in addition to being generally a terrible thing to read
I’ve heard of people not responding to the wrong colored bubbles or being judgemental, like my $1,200 phone is better than your $1,200 phone?
That's just sad. Not even sports teams or musicians, but over a walled-gardened messaging app?
I knew a 29 y/o woman that switched to iPhone so that others with iPhones would see her text messages bubble as blue instead of green. Imagine blowing over a thousand dollars so that someone else sees blue rather than green in text messages. Meanwhile, I can make the bubble colors whatever color I want on my Android.
Top whack android phones aret really cheaper than iPhones these days so it’s not classism as such. Yanks just seem to love to tribalise everything, see masks during Covid as another example. I think it’s a result of having a two party political system.
Whats so special about i-message that people only buy apple for it? Ive only ever had android.
Nothing. Google Messages app has all the same features. The only problem is that Apple refuses to also support RCS (which Google messages uses) and so if an android user sends a message to an iPhone user, the iPhone user gets it as an SMS. If the Android user sends a picture, the iPhone user receives it as an MMS.
In the rest of the world this is not an issue because most people use WhatsApp or Signal or Viber or any other local messaging app. Also most android phones have the Messages app as default which means if you message another Android user they will get it over WiFi/data in the messages app.
But in the US for some reason the iPhone users consider getting an SMS as somehow bad and that the Android user is poor or inferior because they sent an SMS.
It’s totally stupid and only a US issue, but it’s so strong that teenagers will be bullied if they don’t have an iPhone for iMessage. So they all get iPhones in order not to be bullied. And this way Apple makes mega sales.
The fact that other people they know also use it.
The app itself is pretty much the same as any other modern messaging app, but network effects are everything when it comes to messaging services.
This is why you see entire countries where everyone has WhatsApp or Facebook Messenger or Telegram, depending on what other people in the country are using.
Encryption, photos are higher quality through it (this is where “Android cameras are bad” came from,) typing indicators, sending messages over Wi-Fi, iMessage games, and message effects.
The EU has dragged Apple through the mud in order to make them change for the better, they will be able to do the same.
If what the first commenter said is true. They will just implement RCS or an alternative in the EU and make up some reason why they can’t or won’t for the US market.
True. So true in fact that I’d be willing to bet that even if the EU made them implement RCS they still wouldn’t do it in the US. USB-C only worked because it’s a hardware change and maintaining separate lightning and USB-C models and accessory ecosystems doesn’t make sense. RCS is a software change that costs them nothing to NOT use in the only market where it would hurt them.
Agreed
Group chats in RCS weren’t even end-to-end encrypted on Android until August of this year. Green texts are a security risk.
😂, a security risk 🤣🤣🤣🤣 Are you Edward Snowden that you think it’s such a massive risk?
You are delusional. I use text messages all the time and there is zero risk.
If you’re that concerned with security, shouldn’t you be using Signal and try to convince others to do so? iMessage is E2E encrypted but Signal is platform-agnostic and has better security/privacy.
Okay so now that it has encryption, what is the security risk?
It is not literally the reason.
Yeah this thread is wild… like no imessage isn’t literally the reason people buy iPhones. And iMessage doesn’t have “higher quality photos.”
In most of Europe, nobody uses an apple phone, so the pressure to get them to use a different protocol is fairly low.
My issue with RCS is its only open to other device makers, like you can’t make RCS apps cause you need a special license. Its a closed system that on android will likely always depend on google
The idea of making Apple use it is also part of Google giving the operations to carriers, just like SMS, and then gradually replacing SMS altogether. Google isn’t even supposed to be running the RCS servers. But they did it in order to get the standard up and running everywhere. It’s an open standard, and multiple carriers in several countries are on their way to carrying the burden of the servers, the way the standard is supposed to operate. Once it’s operating, all servers can talk to each other, just like you can SMS a person on another carrier line. RCS will allow universal rich texting.
Surely XMPP and other standards are different and I would prefer any other than something championed by Google. But the truth is, that the other standards aren’t invited to sit at the right tables and don’t offer the same “replace SMS once and for all” potential the way RCS does. XMPP for example is super expensive to escalate and like almost all of the traffic is just presence messaging, which is super wasteful and energy intensive on servers. RCS is not the best, but it’s one that all carriers and telecommunications agencies are on board for replacing the archaic SMS. And it doesn’t preclude using other protocols. Like, WhatsApp, Signal, Matrix and Telegram will still continue to exist.
It requires provisioning by your mobile carrier. iMessage doesn’t.
Anyone advocating for something that isn’t OTT has been living under a rock.
I’m not so sure about the special license thing. The limit on 3rd party apps is because there isn’t an API in Android that exposes RCS to users, only OEMs (which is how Samsung can do it). If Google flipped that switch and made the API public, 3rd party apps would be able to use it just as easily as they do SMS without paying extra or obtaining a license. It’s an open standard.
Only Google knows why they haven’t done this already.
Because RCS is provisioned by the telcos and the telcos won’t let them.
Want end to end encryption, have to use Google Messages, not Samsung Messages, both RCS. How’s that for interop?
RCS is a mess and not the savior.
Also, encryption is a mixed bag depending upon the client, and you need a phone number. Using iMessage with an email address is quite nice.
I remember Steve Jobs stating on stage that the protocol will be opened up when iMessage was revealed. Apparently this statement surprised the developers of it, because they didn’t know anything about that (based on some rumors).
Then that statement was silently ignored.
It was FaceTime, not iMessage. The reason the developers were surprised was that they didn’t own the tech, and Apple lost a patent lawsuit about it and almost had to remove FaceTime entirely. www.bbc.com/news/technology-20236114 fiercewireless.com/…/apple-s-facetime-open-standa…
“Lol, no.” -Tim Cook, probably.
“Hell yes” - the EU, definitely
“Too bad” -the EU, as well
I don’t get why people like RCS in this context. It has the same problem as iMessage.
On Android you have to use Google Messages to get it. Third party apps don’t work with it because Google never opened it up to them. How common is RCS without Google Messages? Even on Samsung phones it goes via Google.
How common is iMessage without an Apple product?
Why does Google want them to use iMessage? Probably since the data would flow through them.
Same shiz, different company.
RCS is just a standard, much like how SMS is just a standard. Google’s Messaging app is just one implementation of it, though it probably is the most popular in the US it is not the only one, nor is Google able to decide who cannot use it. Carriers typically have their own, though you may have recently heard that T-Mobile decided to switch over to Google’s.
As someone else said RCS is just the new global standard replacing SMS that apple does not want to support because it weakens their walled garden.
RCS is an open standard created by GSMA, not a Google product. Google and Samsung just have the most popular “flavours” of RCS
It works on Textra just fine
Wait, since when does Textra have RCS support?
Samsung Messages supports RCS if carrier enables it: androidcentral.com/how-set-rcs-chat-samsung-phone…
Because most people don’t really understand the specifics of what they are railing against and/or arguing for. They just read “big bad Apple is being eViL” and get on the complaint train without really understanding what they are advocating for.
You used a lot of words, just too say that you don’t know what you are talking about.
That’s why Apple has been cagey about the whole thing. It’s Google’s tech. Their patents. Their way. Of course they are going to weaponize it because that’s where we are with software these days.
The answer isn’t RCS and Apple knows it. It’s trading iMessage for a merger with gMessage, a hybrid of the two with Apple losing half of its control. For a pretty meek gain.
The answer is to come up with an open standard that all messaging apps adopt and build on. So we can eventually move away from shitty SMS. Neither Google, or Apple should control the framework.
They aren’t going to budge, at least not willingly.
a la USB-C
This is where the EU could really make it a reality.
…or even better: end iMsg
I don’t think Europeans even use it
Yep, EU is whatsapp territory. Nobody cares about Apple software.
IMessage isn’t really used in Europe, so it doesn’t get covered by the DMA-DSA-Duo sadly
Sure it does. It’s the interoperability of all of them from iMessage to Whatsapp, signal, Google message, etc.
I have zero interest in using any Apple service. I’ve never needed to, and I never will.
They can keep their imessage thing, I hadn’t even heard of it until just now. I’m good.
It’s incompatible with Android on purpose. They want their users shaming non apple users in to getting an iPhone.
Nobody I know uses iMessage (or RCS for that matter) here in Germany. Most people use WhatsApp.
I think this is an American problem
Not nobody, it’s number three after WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger (both owned by Meta).
So yeah, the EU is definitely focusing on Meta, but iMessage, Signal and RCS (Google) are large enough to all be in scope of the regulation.
I don’t know if things like Snapchat are also in scope.
the EU is definitely focusing on Meta, but iMessage, Signal and RCS (Google) are large enough to all be in scope of the regulation.
Signal and RCS are not in scope. You can see the targeted services here, for communication it’s currently just WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger. iMessage is being discussed but that’s it. Signal and RCS don’t have a large enough share, Signal is tiny and RCS is not even a blip on the radar. If anything it’s going to be Viber and Telegram next. Viber has a 25x larger userbase than Signal, Telegram about 10x, and WhatsApp is about 75x. Here’s a chart to give you some idea.
Funnily enough, here in Scandinavia next to nobody uses WhatsApp, we pretty much exclusively use sms/RCS/iMessage and Snapchat. Sometimes Messanger. Weird how different it is
I would love if they would just roll out an iMessage app to android. Ideally free.
I could realistically see them roll out an apple subscription pack to android eventually. Give users a way to access Apple Music, Fitness, etc. May even allow android users make use of Apple Watch.
I’m not an Apple fan boy, but this seems like a decent compromise from a business perspective. This meets a need and I don’t think there’s a decent enough argument that it would cannibalize iPhone sales (flagship models anyway)
What happended with forcing interoperability with different services like WhatsApp and Messenger? Would be great if we could just have one app for all messages like on Windows Phone back in the day 🙏
Yeah fuck apple but seriously, RCS is fucking stupid. We have so many nice open protocols and RCS is the best we can get?
People keep getting messages the app and iMessage the protocol confused. While never written that way (as far as naming goes), I’ve seen nothing to indicate that the EU isn’t just saying that Messages the app doesn’t just need hooks to allow third party apps to integrate into the one interface. It’s about adding more bubble colors as it were. So stuff like WhatsApp would just pop up in the same feed over whatever protocol it uses.
People actually use that? Everybody I know is using whatsapp and/or signal. Nobody bothers about proprietary crap.
I don't get why people keep suggesting RCS as a solution.
1)No one outside USA cares about SMS or RCS
2)A messaging app is better anyway, be it whatsapp or signal or telegram or imessage
The only people caring about RCS are USA Android users, but since Google is an USA company, they somehow think that the entire world is like USA Android users.
Protip: no we are not.
I’d love to see an open, secure, universal rich messaging standard adopted by everyone but we know that’s not gonna happen.
Carriers have literally no incentive to improve on SMS, I doubt they’ll lose any customers because of a lack of RCS adoption.
Do I like the locked in nature of iMessage? Not really, but it’s honestly not that big of a deal here (UK).
I just don’t like how Google talks about their proprietary messaging service as though it’s an industry standard. It’s not. Google RCS is not RCS.
Doesn’t the EU DMA would eventually force Apple, Whatsapp… to open up ?
I don’t want next-gen SMS. I want adoption of Internet based and democratic standard instead.
Let’s be real: there’s a lot of self-interested whining from Samsung and Google, but there isn’t any pressure.
Apple has a better solution. Why should they adopt a weaker one?
Who fucking cares what color the bubble is
Apple doesn’t want to that because they make money from iMessage. Android wouldn’t want you to do that if they had iMessage. If you use Android and have RCS then you don’t need iMessage because you already have the features you want. Android only wants iMessage be opened so Apple makes less money. Don’t get caught up in their war. Use your RCS messenger and don’t be worried about what Apple has.
David Meyer put a lot of effort into this story and it shows.
echo64@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The pressure doesn’t matter, apple makes a legitimate amount of money from people scared of being a different colored bubble. Unless someone actually writes it into law and makes a provision that all the bubbles must appear the same, nothing will change
fartsparkles@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
This is weirdly only a thing in America. In Europe, where I live, iMessage isn’t that popular and iPhone users never seem to care about the bubble colour (likely because WhatsApp, Telegram, Signal, Element, and Threema are so popular, everyone is used to using multiple chat apps anyway).
nudnyekscentryk@szmer.info 1 year ago
RCS is an implementation of GSMA Universal Profile and is interoperable with it
FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I have never heard of anyone in the U.S. who cares about the bubble color either. The only reason I ever cared was that it used to mean there was a good chance it wouldn’t get through if it was a green bubble, but that doesn’t seem to be the case anymore. I’ve gotten iPhone-to-iPhone green bubbles when there’s been some sort of communication difficulty to Apple’s servers and it had to go straight SMS.
akafester@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I have to say that in Denmark at least, iMessage seems to thrive quite well. There are quite a lot using Facebook messenger, but SMS and iMessage is a close second. This is entirely from my point of view. Never met anyone using the examples you mention, unless they are communicating with foreigners on a daily basis.
Apollo2323@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
It is proprietary but at least it will interoperable with other phones and carriers.
stardust@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
killeronthecorner@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Two related issues are being confused/conflated here.
The first is the American cultural significance of the green and blue bubbles. This is the thing that Europeans generally don’t care about as most are using WhatsApp et. al.
The second is the lack of interoperability between chat protocols such that it degrades the experience for everyone. This is what the EU is targeting.
I don’t think the colours of chat bubbles for specific devices as displayed by other specific devices falls under that remit. The implementor must comply with providing the same service level though. Whether or not this will lead to less cultural significance for bubble hues in the US remains to be seen.
lemmyvore@feddit.nl 1 year ago
It won’t be with RCS. The “gatekeeper” criteria applies to interoperation between dominant technologies. RCS has very small adoption in Europe. If iMessage will make the cut it will have to integrate with Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger and Signal.
incompetentboob@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I don’t get why more people don’t understand this. There is literally no way Apple is going to ditch iMessage or open it up voluntarily.
alvvayson@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Cue the EU.
They already got Apple on USB-C, repairability and RCS are next.