Submitted 1 year ago by dantheclamman@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
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I got an email from OnStar the other day saying it contacted my bank and updated my card info because I had gotten an old card and hadn’t updated the info, I don’t pay for OnStar but the dealership MAKES you set it up even if you don’t use it.
How the fuck are they allowed to contact my bank and get information like that? Weirded my TF out to say the least.
They did that to me. I specifically have them a card I knew was going to expire before the trial period was over and they got the new information anyway.
If I remember correctly, it’s a “feature” the credit card companies have so your subscriptions don’t lapse.
How is that fucking legal?
Yeah and it’s very useful, looks like this place is just as bad with the kids as that other place.
This is more based on authorization vs CC details. It’s much safer for a company than holding onto credit card numbers. Creating a subscriptions generates an authorization code which is good for the account, not just a specific card number. Revoking that authorization is a separate call to the bank rather than just having a credit card replaced.
Credit cards have actually been doing that for years. It’s a feature for recurring payments to reduce the amount of trouble users had when their CC number was compromised or it expired.
Yeah, it sucks too. A couple years ago I was trying to get out of a Sirius Satellite subscription I had opted into during the height of the rony 'rona.
Instead of sitting on the phone with CSRs for hours on end while they pass me around and offer me incentives to stay, I thought I’d be smart and report that my credit card was lost. (At the time you couldn’t disenroll online, that changed I happily found out a few months ago)
Joke was on me though. Sirius updated my new card info, and I was without a credit card for ~8 days.
Authorizations are different from CC details.
You can call a bank and cancel an authorization without canceling a card.
I’m not sure when you purchased your vehicle, but when I purchased my vehicle Dec 2022 I had to do that OnStar setup crap as well and just denied giving them any information. They said I wouldn’t be able to get this or that but I didn’t care so they didn’t get that information. It took about 15 minutes with the person on the other side being a bit confused but just gave up when I said it the like 5th time.
Either way they don’t need that information at any time unless you want their free trials that are almost never worth it.
Yeah, I’d walk away from a sale before agreeing to that crap, even if they did make it mandatory.
I don’t pay for OnStar but the dealership MAKES you set it up even if you don’t use it.
I have never heard that. When did they start doing that?
Weirded my TF out to say the least.
Honestly that shouldn’t weird you out too much, that’s just a convenience feature. And yeah, I know, some people put quotes around the word convenience. But others actually just use the word as is, a convenience.
What should freak the hell out of you is when you and your significant other are in the car talking about buying a new pair of tennis shoes, and then that evening when you’re sitting at home YouTube shows you a commercial for tennis shoes, when you’ve never seen any ads for tennis shoes on YouTube before.
By design and commonly accepted on recurring payments. Not even remotely new or connected with OnStar.
I wonder what happens if you only have a single card with no money on it.
That sounds awfully convenient and OnStar saves lives, so…
The emergency features are free, they want you to pay for in-car wifi. You also cannot cancel online and have to cancel with a rep over the phone. The service itself is fine, but dealerships requiring you to sign up “even if you aren’t going to use it” isn’t .
Lucky for me I can’t afford a new car anyway. I’ll just keep driving my unconnected car.
No kidding, it’s ridiculous to think they expect us to fork over $25k for cars that will invade our privacy. I have a 23 year old car I’ll drive till it’s dead before that ever happens.
25k? Lol, I wish. Average new car sale price is 48k.
Why and how do you have a Twitter check mark next to your name?
Same here. Its a bit shabby and heavy on gas but I can fix most things on it myself… but at least I dont have this issue
I will drive my 2013 Honda Fit until the wheels fall off. I love it and with a $20 Bluetooth adapter, it has all the amenities I could need. I think it’s insane that people are driving around with a tablet that controls their heat and radio.
Honda Fits are amazing little cars. I only would want them to be able to be modernized to have some of the advanced safety features like Lane keeping assist, adaptive cruise control, and automatic emergency braking like in the newer cars, but would require a redesign and additional sensors added to the windshield area.
I’m able to fit a double sided mattress box spring in it which is insane for a subcompact car. It’s a mini minivan.
HondaLink came out in 2013/2014 so your car may have wireless services, but it’s probably for an older network that mostly doesn’t exist anymore. So your car may have at one point been collecting information, just not what newer vehicles are doing today.
I did use Onstar, but when my 2013 Volt went offline because of the 3g network sunset, I lost that functionality. Would have loved the ability to upgrade the cellular module in my car so I could have the security and safety features back, but one silver lining is disconnecting :) Of course, GM was going to quietly continue charging me for the same service after the connection died, but I canceled.
It would be a long time until I get a car (because it’s convenient to live without one anyway), so I’m afraid the older “dumb cars” could become harder to buy or maintain then. I wonder if there are modern ones that you can make fully “dumb”.
Tesla is only the second product we have ever reviewed to receive all of our privacy “dings.” (The first was an AI chatbot we reviewed earlier this year.) What set them apart was earning the “untrustworthy AI” ding. The brand’s AI-powered autopilot was reportedly involved in 17 deaths and 736 crashes and is currently the subject of multiple government investigations.
How utterly unsurprising. Also,
"Consent” is an illusion
Many people have lifestyles that require driving. So unlike a smart faucet or voice assistant, you don’t have the same freedom to opt out of the whole thing and not drive a car.
This is the kicker, many people need cars for unrelated reasons and the fact that ALL car brands abuse our data means there is no alternative.
What about my 14 year old Renault Kagoo?
:-)
Selling your location to the GIGN, believe it or not
The first point is beyond stupid IMO when the bar is set at human. I’ve seen no reliable or consistent data that Teslas shitty autopilot is actually worse than a human. I’ve seen wild swings both ways.
The second point is, on point so to speak, and 100% should be addressed.
Missed the point on the first one. The focus was on how Tesla wasn’t leaking your privacy unnecessarily, not autopilot. Also autopilot doesn’t need to be perfect - if the miles per crashes is lower than a human then it is more safer whether you like it or not.
Thank you for that link and Thank you to Mozilla for doing those tests. I always suspected something like this but it is good to have it tested and in writing.
My only gripe with the article is this:
All of the car brands on this list except for Tesla, Renault, and Dacia signed on to a list of Consumer Protection Principles from the US automotive industry group ALLIANCE FOR AUTOMOTIVE INNOVATION, INC.
Renault and Dacia aren’t available in the US, so there is really no need for them to sign those principles. Which makes Tesla the only one where this is relevant.
Wasn’t the next line that this agreement they all signed was just something they made up and don’t actually follow and no one enforces?
Are there really 0 Renaults in the US? Or I guess maybe just a few imported ones, but like they aren’t officially sold there?
Are any other French brands available? I know at least the Germans are.
I guess French cars are too “sensible” for the US market?
The only French automaker in the US is Bugatti, and it’s questionable how French they are.
I’m hoping the Stellantis merger leads to more French cars here. Peugeot, Renault, Alpine, Citroen, and DS all have cars I’d be interested in.
Renault used to have a 46% stake in AMC back in the '80s but sold it to Chrysler and hasn’t been back since.
I don’t know if there are zero Renault in the US but Mozilla themselves say that Renault aren’t sold in the US:
While Renault cars haven’t been sold in the US since 1992, their cars are big in Europe, South and Central America.
So it is kind of strange to hold it against them. On the other hand that doesn’t seem to be too important because nobody cares about what they signed or not.
It’s super cool that buying a new car and having any self-respect whatsoever are mutually exclusive now.
lmao
we need a mozilla or a linux car tbh…that is feature upgradable…like adding extensions or apps
We need cars that aren’t giant IoT boxes that keep phoning home. The vast majority of “smart” car systems shouldn’t need an Internet connection to function. But yes, I agree with your sentiment.
Never gonna happen unless governments force them.
What WILL happen is that more and more non-critical features will become pay to play. You’ll rent the air conditioner in your car.
Installing your own software will become (or likely already is) illegal since if you’re u do that you could play without pay on the car that you paid for with your money.
Corporations must be limited I’m what they can do, NOW. No more data monitoring and selling. No more ads pushed. No more pay to play. No more limiting what you can do with the products that you buy and own
Then we can joke for two decades that this year will be the year the Linux car will be able to drive
You just need an older car with a DIN profile radio. You can swap it out for whatever you want.
I should chuck in a box with homebrew firmware for the lulz.
as long as the ecu allows u to start ur car even when changing the radio or tinkering with the infotainement system i wouldn’t mind…but i probably doubt it: car manufacturers will really tie critical car features to spying hardware so they could reach their end
yea man buy an old car and riddle it with fancy features: (TPMS):tire monitoring pressure system, Lidar for brake anticipation and also highway cruising, parking sensors and cameras back and front, dashcams front and back (even cameras at the door handles like a Tesla). Tbh i like it when an old car gets modded by third party with latest car features that way u really saving the environment from a ton of metal junk. A BMW or A Tesla are just filled to the brim with sensors, but also more parts mean more breaking parts so there should be a balance between refurbishing an old car and making it basically undriveable with breakdowns.
We’ve had up until the last few years.
Someone could probably make a good amount of money charging like $50 to stick a nail through the cellular chip of new cars to disable that phone home shit.
We had a Mozilla phone. Enough is enough.
how did it fare haha ? at least there is no apple car to compete with…yet :/
The Teslas are powered by Linux as far as I know.
US needs to regulate how data is collected by all companies. This shit is just gross. Is this perhaps one of the reasons why right to repair is opposed so strongly across industries? In addition to selling overpriced manufacturer repair they don’t want us to cripple one of their revenue streams.
From what I understand, right to repair would give consumers and independent repair shops the ability to repair their items and grant them access to schematics/repair manuals, specialty tools, and parts.
In theory, this should make it easier to develop aftermarket parts. And for electronics and software, be able to develop drop in replacements, flash aftermarket hardware, and that function of the car should still work.
In this case car manufacturers don’t want people to rip out their embedded spyware and thus uncouple them from using their data collecting phone apps.
Currently aware of at least one report of a couple of car manufacturers backing some astroturfing groups to oppose right to repair [1]
Guess I’m driving my 2010 Honda Accord and burns oil and leaks steering fluid a few more years.
Should probably get the steering thing fixed.
Don’t you just love the digital age? -_-
So you’re telling me that you pay tens of thousands and still pay with privacy
Capitalism working as expected. 25 flavors of the same bullshit
I drive 25 years old car. It was pretty expensive when it was new so it has all the features I care about. I will not buy a new car until I’m forced to. Also the option to just turn on seats heating without having to pay monthly is quite a bonus.
I’m over here in my wife’s Hyundai smoking weed, having unprotected sex and drinking hard liquor. I can’t wait for my targeted ads. Served to me on my prison issued JPay translucent tablet. Thank god for technology.
Does this apply to European cars as well? Do we need to start filing GDPR complaints against car manufacturers?
Mazda wasn’t on the list, so I was curious: www.mazdausa.com/site/privacy-connectedservices
At least they won’t sell your data without permission, for what it’s worth these days.
Sometimes I’m glad I drive an old, barebones features car.
Why is Mozilla consumer reports
Hardly seems surprising that Renault / Dacia is the least worst since it is a European car company that doesn’t sell in the US. I should point out though that Dacia holds the record for the absolute worst NCAP safety ratings at this time and some Renault cars aren’t far behind. So swings and roundabouts.
How does it collect information on sexual activity?
const data await fetch('/user/beancounter/data) console.log(data.hadSex) > false
ctrl+f “volvo”
Not listed, so you know what that means! Great result via omission! Looks like my loved ones are all good then!
Do humans listen to what we say in our cars? Can I scar someone for life by describing kinks I find on the internet or saying stuff like “babe, pull over…the mechanical pencil lead just broke off in my penis”
On a more serious note, perhaps I will cover the tracking camera in my car. Didn’t want it, but it came with the stupid trim level of my car (makes sure you aren’t falling asleep on the road/distracted.)
Oh good, a petition.
Merkel years ago: " … to decide, who the cars data belongs to: the manufacturer or the provider"
Freely translated from memory, might be wrong, but the point is; the user was never in consideration.
Wish I had the money to even be able to drive one of these nightmare cars in the first place. Yay for being poor I guess!
Well that was depressing.
So at what point do we just decide "Fuck companies, fuck revenue, fuck anybody who has, say, a million bucks to their name in cash and assets. No more money making unless you do it without screwing people. If you can’t, you fail. Good day. "
Tax the every living fuck out of the rich, destroy data even being collectable or sellable at all in any form.
Boom, 100,000% better world to live in immediately.
Obviously pipe dream, but I think this is really the mindset to take if humans are gonna be around and have anything resembling happy lives in say, 100 years.
Any idea around what model year this started to take off? I drive a 2001 so I’m not worried now, but thinking of upgrading to something slightly newer.
There are EV conversion kits available, so it is possible to turn an old car electric. They won’t have the storage capacity of a natively electric car, but it is an option.
I have not read it yet, but do they have any countermeasures people can take?
cloud@lazysoci.al 1 year ago
www.nissanusa.com/privacy.html
Please make this reach the front page because it’s beyond ridiculous
ChunkMcHorkle@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you don’t mind, please also highlight
Because omfg, think about those for a second, and how any data that leaves your control is subject to eventual collection by law enforcement, legal or not:
Some bonehead rears you, but your health diagnosis data says you have a heart condition, or maybe just high blood pressure. These conditions can involve occasional lightheadedness, though you know yours is well controlled. You don’t even think about it anymore because you take care of yourself and all your regular tests are good. But suddenly, you’re in this minor accident, not even your fault, and it’s no longer a simple rearending because some asshole has brought your health history into it so that YOU and not he will be on the hook for monetary damages.
(Triple if the bozo who hit you is some lame ass drunk rural county sheriff or elected official.)
And “genetic information” is code for DNA. How they would collect your DNA from your car I don’t know, but do you REALLY want your genetic information associated with your vehicle and outside the confines of GINA* for the convenience of data sellers? I know I don’t. (GINA is also the law that binds companies like 23andMe from selling your genetic data.) But the whole point of trying to legislate personal control over your own genetic information is because of all the dystopian scenarios that can easily evolve from others having it without your consent.
Yet now your car wants it too? Question this. Letting anyone have it by such means does a complete end run around any law meant to keep your personal genetic information private, and guts any rights you may have to your own privacy under the law, because you signed it away. Imagine the billions insurance companies could make, both health and auto, by refusing to pay for this or that because genetically it was a “pre-existing condition” or a “contributing factor” to you getting rearended by a drunk.
I’ve never been so thrilled to drive an ancient beater in my life.
*Note: GINA is weak already, but legislators are trying to weaken it further still: in 2018 a proposed change meant that “Employers would have been able to demand workers’ genetic test results if the bill were to have been enacted.”
cloud@lazysoci.al 1 year ago
I don’t want to edit the post but consider as if it was done, thanks for the addition
FuryMaker@lemmy.world 1 year ago
How and where are they actually capturing that data exactly?
Aux@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I don’t know where you live, but it already illegal to hide any health data from road authorities in many countries like UK. If you get a lightheadedness from a know diagnosis and get into a crash, you will not only be prosecuted for the crash itself, but also for fraud that you’re unfit to drive. Double criminal sentence, enjoy!
Fjern@lemmy.world 1 year ago
At the very least… cant the US implement one of the basic rules from GDPR?
In simple terms, what data can companies keep? Data need to have: OK Data nice to have: Not OK
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
The US will absolutely not implement anything remotely like GDPR, because that would hurt the profits of a LOT of companies who happen to have a LOT of lobbyists on K street.
ZC3rr0r@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
I’d much rather they implement the right to deletion. I know they will get their hands on a ton of data, regardless of how we write the clause. But at least let me delete that data when I want it gone.
blackn1ght@feddit.uk 1 year ago
How do they even capture this stuff? Are you expected to write some essays before you can buy the car?
jimbo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Meh, it’s a CYA policy. They’re not actively collecting that data, but if you mention something in those categories in an email, chat, phone call, etc to a Nissan employee, that data might be stored.
slurpeesoforion@startrek.website 1 year ago
BuT tHeY nEeD tHaT sO tHeY kNoW hOw nOt tO dIsCrImInAtE aGaInSt yOu.
Rodeo@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
I don’t see how the things you highlighted are worse than any of the rest of it.
It’s all bad.