Valve: HDMI Forum Continues to Block HDMI 2.1 for Linux

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• turbowafflz@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Console manufacturers all just need to switch to displayport to encourage tv manufacturers to do the same. No one’s going to not buy a ps6 or steam machine because they have to use a little dp-hdmi adapter, but they might be a little more likely to choose a tv that doesn’t need an adapter over one that does

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  • ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Sony would probably create a proprietary standard before they’d switch to displayport.

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  • fluffykittycat@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    What about shipping an adaptor? DP to HDMI for the transition?

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    • dovahking@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Phone companies succeeded in killing 3.5mm audio port with that strategy. So why not, for once, use it for a good cause?

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  • supersquirrel@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Good point!

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  • halloween_spookster@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    I agree with the sentiment but we’re dealing with a chicken and egg problem. If no TVs have DisplayPort, who would buy a console that can’t be used with their TV?

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    • defaultusername@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      TVs are starting to come with DisplayPort already in the form of USB C alt mode.

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    • rubdos@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Not really. Both could start shipping both connectors, except if I’m unaware of some licensing issue over that?

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  • pivot_root@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    As long as the manufacturers are competing against each other, that’s never going to happen.

    The “gamer” consumer demographic has some of the most whiny, entitled vocal minorities. They’re going to endlessly complain about the next generation of console needing a special cable/dongle to connect to their TV, one of the manufacturers are going to fold, and then the other one is going to walk back the lack of HDMI because they don’t want to lose sales to their competitor.

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    • Pistcow@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      I mean we don’t use coax/channel 3 any longer. Just do it.

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  • renegadespork@lemmy.jelliefrontier.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Ah, the Apple strategy of forcing a standard.

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    • watson@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      You’re thinking of firewire, and that was not proprietary. Sony came up with that. I had a mini disc player with a firewire port. And thunderbolt, which is what they use now, is an evolution on firewire made by Apple, Sony, and Intel.

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• tty5@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  HDMI Forum has fewer than 80 members and membership fee is 15,000 USD/year. Valve could spin up 80 companies, have them join the forum for a low low price of 1.2M USD and outvote remaining members to open source the entire spec.

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  • BreadstickNinja@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    This is hilariously plausible. Someone SCUBA down to Gabe and give him the idea.

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    • Katana314@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      dives to 50 feet, removes tube from mouth to shout to Gabe, and fucking drowns

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  • hodgepodgin@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    rofl, I hate billionaires but this would be peak trolling

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    • PumpkinEscobar@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Hate the player, don’t hate the game

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  • Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Does it have to be companies? Could individual people just have 15k, and join? We just need 81 new members.

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    • Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Unfortunately it not only has to be companies, but unless you are a producer of products that are HDMI certified already your membership will be denied. It would take a lot of fuckery to make that many corporations and not have all of their membership applications be denied. Also I’m not sure that it’s even a voting democracy in the traditional sense even if you could.

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• Kissaki@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  hdmiforum.org/members/

  AMD is part of the forum but can’t get them to accept their own open source driver. I guess we can’t shame all of them in one.

  Sad.

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  • Bakkoda@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Then AMD needs to apply more leverage or start an awareness campaign with as much shit PR for every business supporting them.

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  • tty5@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Fewer than 80 members. 15k/year membership fee and very lax joining requirements. $1.2M gets you majority allowing you do to whatever even with 100% of current members opposing :P

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  • felbane@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    How hilarious would it be if the AMD board member was the one who veto’d the driver 😅

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    • tty5@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      AMD has had the code ready to include in their open source driver for a while and has been trying to get HDMI Forum to let them release it for a long time www.phoronix.com/news/HDMI-2.1-OSS-Rejected

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  • aeiou_ckr@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Wild to see DisplayLink among the companies here.

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    • DasSkelett@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Know be your enemy, they say.

      But jokes aside, I believe DisplayLink’s focus is primarily on the client<->docking station part, with docking station<->monitor usually still being HDMI/DP (same with direct client<->monitor links). So they still have to interface with it some way or another.

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• count_dongulus@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  It’s $1.2M to gain majority share on the HDMI board, but it sure would be nice if someone gave $1.2M to one of the engineers with access to that cryptographic DRM keys for the binary to “apparently get hacked” and have the keys magically appear online.

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  • falseWhite@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Wouldn’t make it legal to use them anyway

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    • count_dongulus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      I bet we would start to see chinese adapters showing up on the market with DisplayPort to HDMI2.1 though.

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    • bluGill@fedia.io ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      You can/should write your congressman (or equivalent in your country). Just the threat that if OSS can't use HDMI congress will open up the laws will get action. In a democracy voters have more power than big money when they care and vote like it.

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• Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  We need more DisplayPort in the world - and better support for multi-monitor setups under Linux.

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  • Kuro@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    What are you missing in multi-monitor setups under Linux?

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    • Endymion_Mallorn@kbin.melroy.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Every time I plug a second monitor into my Linux PC (Mint), both screens start blinking on and off. Sometimes Win+P works, sometimes it doesn't. I've asked in the Discord, I've tried arandr. Nothing works.

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• ramenshaman@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I recently watched a video about HDMI. I didn’t hate HDMI but now I kinda do.

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  • wavebeam@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Unfortunately most standards bodies are pretty much this stupid though. Blu-ray, DVD, USB, hell even codecs like H265 and MP3 have governing bodies that are mostly enterprises enforcing their collective power on standards. That’s good in ways because it means they all have to decide on a standard that’ll work wihh to pretty much anything, but bad because they can also enforce bullying like HDCP onto consumers.

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    • ramenshaman@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      That sucks

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• pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Displayport is better anyways.

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  • NutWrench@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Yup. Especially since “smart TVs” that are WiFi connected can spy on your HDMI connection. Samsung, LG and Visio were caught doing it.

    pcmag.com/…/is-your-tv-spying-on-you-how-to-check

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    • Logical@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      After all the shit I’ve seen and heard about the creepy shit smart TV manufacturers get up to I am never ever connecting a smart TV to the internet in my home.

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• Hadriscus@jlai.lu ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  HDMI, what’s that ?

  sent from my DisplayPort monitor

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  • nomorebillboards@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    You wrote that didn’t you

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• OR3X@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  But why does the HDMI fourm not want a open source 2.1-compliant implementation? Is it DRM related? I feel like it’s DRM related.

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  • Goretantath@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Its fully DRM related.

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    • billwashere@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      My guess is if it’s open source it’s more easily cracked.

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  • bobs_monkey@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Likely moreso that they’re facing pressure from other competitors in the industry that see Steam and open source in general as a threat to their business model. The HDMI forum is made up of industry leaders, and naturally Microsoft and Sony are there.

    hdmiforum.org/members/

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    • Jesus_666@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      They’ve been refusing open HDMI 2.1 since 2017. I don’t think that being afraid of Linux becoming the dominant gaming platform plays a role here; it’s more likely that they’re afraid people might find new ways to get at protected content.

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  • Buelldozer@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    But why does the HDMI forum not want a open source 2.1-compliant implementation?

    To my knowledge they’ve never officially said but you can be sure that it has to do with Content Protection and that means DRM. An Open Source HDMI 2.1+ driver would make pirating much simpler, probably trivial, using Linux based PCs.

    It’s possible anyway of course but there are a couple of hardware hoops to jump through and that’s enough to keep most people from doing it.

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  • fonix232@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Because that would open source certain implementations they want to hold captive.

    It also enforces closed source drivers which can be shipped with spyware/crapware, further extending profits for companies... companies that happen to make up the HDMI Forum.

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  • tty5@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    They charge a fee for access to the spec and maintain who can claim their products are HDMI compliant and require compliance testing on those products.

    An open source implementation would make that spec public and strip a lot of control they hold.

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  • plantfanatic@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Part of being open source is subsequent licensing. This would allow any others to piggyback and avoid the fee.

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• tabular@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I wish I could buy hardware without HMDI at all so they got no money from me.

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  • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

    As much as I agree I think it would have been a bad move for them to do that. The device is success is already highly dependant on its price, which is still in flux as far as I understand, there is no reason for them to make the decision even more difficult.

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• Soapbox@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Not all software available on Linux is open source. NVIDIA drivers for example. Hell, most of the games on Steam are closed source.

  So, is it just a matter of principle on Valve and AMD’s part that they only want to ship with fully open source drivers?

  I’m not technically knowledgeable enough to understand why you can’t just make the HDMI 2.1 part of the driver code closed source and the rest of the graphics drivers open?

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  • turmacar@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Modern specs are complicated. I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s something like a cryptographic key the driver needs to be signed with to successfully complete the handshake to enable all display options between the computer and display.

    Not entirely unwarranted either, an unexpected amount of voltage on an unexpected pin because the driver / hardware is misconfigured damaging your TV would suck.

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    • A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      unless you’re a NES. which then a voltage spike gets the DRM permanantly out of the way forever.

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    • Miaou@jlai.lu ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      Are your electric plugs closed source lmaoi

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  • WolfLink@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Recent Nvidia drivers are open source

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• async_amuro@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Maybe a dumb question… if I used a DisplayPort to HDMI 2.1 adapter, would I get 4K at 120Hz on the Steam Machine and my LG CX tv? 

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  • joyjoy@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Depends on the adapter and source. You may find issues when playing HDPC protected content of you buy a low quality adapter. 

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    • fonix232@fedia.io ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      DisplayPort to HDMI doesn't need an adapter since DP has an alt signal mode with HDMI support.

      Although I'm not sure 2.1 signalling is available yet or not.

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  • hemko@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    Yeah, just it doesn’t support VRR. If you read the article, you’d know

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    • CIA_chatbot@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

      If the article didn’t require accepting cookies to read it I would :D (just being snarky)

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• nialv7@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Evil, greedy little bastards…

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  • buddascrayon@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

    They are clearly in the pockets of Microsoft.

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• Blackmist@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Can the HDMI standard not be implemented in hardware somehow, and then the open source software just talks to that hardware?

  It seems ridiculous that you can make a device that works fine under HDMI 2.1 but you can’t access it with open source code.

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• Petter1@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  While infuriating, I think people who care about features limited to hdmi 2.1 are people having monitors with display port and people who use the box as console on “normal tv” are happy with 4k60

  But I hate, that there is no wide supported open video protocol…

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• arararagi@ani.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Not that this cube would run any modern game at 4k and more than 60 fps.

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• echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  It’s got DP as well though so it’s not all that bad. We really should be pushing manufacturers over to DP anyway.

  It’s literally the same feature set.

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• Petter1@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  OVFP is needed (Open-Video-Format-Protocol).
  Best as interoperable over hdmi, display port and USB-C cables.

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• bystander@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  I don’t know this area well. But I have a strong preference for all port shapes to be the same where possible. Can USB-C shaped heads do the same thing as DisplayPort? If not now, is it possible to make it in the future.

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• Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world [bot] ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  Here’s a thought, don’t buy Valve’s products.

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• sturmblast@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

  The HDMI forum can go fuck itself

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• rdri@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago

  How illegal would it be to provide an AI model with a button “modify the GPU driver until HDMI 2.1 features are working properly”?

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