They don’t need to court developers, they need to court consumers. The games will be sold wherever people are buying.
Valve dev counters calls to scrap Steam AI disclosures, says it's a "technology relying on cultural laundering, IP infringement, and slopification"
Submitted 7 hours ago by OldQWERTYbastard@lemmy.world to games@lemmy.world
https://www.pcgamesn.com/steam/ai-disclousres-debate-valve-dev-response
Comments
twinnie@feddit.uk 7 hours ago
CosmoNova@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Consumers have already decided mobile gambling slop is the most successful investment in the gaming industry. I don‘t trust consumers to know what‘s best for them.
Katana314@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
I think the studies showing how certain minds can be targeted and manipulated by dark gambling patterns made me think differently about gambling. I’d at least like lootbox gambling slop to be regulated the same as casinos.
Look how popular fantasy sports is now. It’s basically just the casino industry seeking out new avenues to cheat the definition of “Playing odds to win cash”.
oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 hours ago
Well yeah gambling is addicting, the mobile slop companies know that so they try to get people addicted to it. It’s really sad what’s happened to the mobile gaming space, as it’s so heavily dominated by gambling. Hell the entire world is being run over by gambling companies now. It’s a major problem that will have to be addressed at some point soon.
rtxn@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
consumers
This is very much a pet peeve, but be careful about how you use “consumer” versus “customer”. They each imply completely different power dynamics.
warm@kbin.earth 7 hours ago
It's very much consumer these days, people buy literally anything marketed to them.
kazerniel@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
I’m glad for those disclosures (because I’m not touching AI games), but tons of devs don’t disclose their AI usage, even in obvious cases, leaving us to guessing :/
Aurenkin@sh.itjust.works 6 hours ago
The ethics and utility (or lack thereof) of AI is an important discussion in it’s own right. In terms of Steam though, I really don’t think it’s relevant. Players want it, that’s it, that’s all that should really matter. Am I missing some nuance here?
borth@sh.itjust.works 3 hours ago
The nuance is that Tim doesn’t give a shit what players want, him and his cronies don’t want it because it’s harder to convince someone to play AI slop when they know it’s AI slop before they even try it 😂
WanderingThoughts@europe.pub 4 hours ago
It might make players demand lower prices if some cheap AI slop is used in the game. That’s the thing publishers want to avoid. They want to sell cheap slop for full price and pocket the difference. That’s what it’s about in the end.
Red_October@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
I haven’t really seen demands for lower prices on AI slop, but I’ve seen a lot of outright refusal to buy at any price, and returns when the disclosure came later.
Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works 6 hours ago
They want it? I don’t know, the review score of Black Ops 7 begs to differ.
Personally I’ll give money to a hard working indie dev that may use AI to help in their work spiradically over a big company shoving AI in everything to replace workers.
grte@lemmy.ca 5 hours ago
Perhaps they meant players want AI disclosures.
Sl00k@programming.dev 1 hour ago
I posted this in another comment but I think the nuance is really in what did they use the AI for. Are they using Claude code for the programming but did the entire artwork by hand? How many really care about that?
Compared to someone who tried to one shot a slop game with full AI assets and is just trying to make a quick buck.
megopie@lemmy.blahaj.zone 7 hours ago
The reality is, that it’s often stated that generative AI is an inevitability, that regardless of how people feel about it, it’s going to happen and become ubiquitous in every facet of our lives.
That’s only true if it turns out to be worth it. If the cost of using it is lower than the alternative, and the market willing to buy it is the same. If the current cloud hosted tools cease to be massively subsidized, and consumers choose to avoid it, then it’s inevitably a historical footnote, like turbine powered cars, Web 3.0, and laser disk.
Those heavily invested in it, ether literally through shares of Nvidia, or figuratively through the potential to deskill and shift power away from skilled workers at their companies don’t want that to be a possibility, they need to prevent consumers from having a choice.
If it was an inevitability in it’s own right, if it was just as good and easily substitutable, why would they care about consumers knowing before they payed for it?
U7826391786239@lemmy.zip 6 hours ago
relevant article theringer.com/…/ai-bubble-burst-popping-explained…
AI storytelling is an amalgam of several different narratives, including:
Inevitability: AI is the future; its eventual supremacy is both imminent and certain, and therefore anyone who doesn’t want to be left behind had better embrace the technology. See Jensen Huang, the CEO of Nvidia, insisting earlier this year that every job in the world will be impacted by AI “immediately.”
Functionality: AI performs miracles, and the AI products that have been released to the public wildly outperform the products they aim to replace. To believe this requires us to ignore the evidence obtained with our own eyes and ears, which tells us in many cases that the products barely work at all, but it’s the premise of every TV ad you watch out of the corner of your eye during a sports telecast.
Grandiosity: The world will never be the same; AI will change everything. This is the biggest and most important story AI companies tell, and as with the other two narratives, big tech seems determined to repeat it so insistently that we come to believe it without looking for any evidence that it’s true.
As far as I can make out, the scheme is essentially: Keep the ship floating for as long as possible, keep inhaling as much capital as possible, and maybe the tech will get somewhere that justifies the absurd valuations, or maybe we’ll worm our way so far into the government that it’ll have to bail us out, or maybe some other paradigm-altering development will fall from the sky. And the way to keep the ship floating is to keep peddling the vision and to seem more confident that the dream is inevitable the less it appears to be coming true.
speaking for myself, MS can thank AI for being the thing that made me finally completely ditch windows after using it 30+ years
Katana314@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
Don’t forget, “Turns out it was a losing bet to back DEI and Trans people”.
This is something scared, pathetic, loser, feral, spineless, sociopathic, moronic fascists come up with to try to win a crowd larger than an elevator; Assume the outcome as a foregone conclusion and try to talk around it, or claim it’s already happened.
Respond directly. “What? That’s ridiculous. I’ve never even seen ANY AI that I liked. Who told you it was going to pervade everything?”
WanderingThoughts@europe.pub 5 hours ago
That reminds me how McDonald’s and other gaat food chains are struggling. People figure it’s too expensive for what you get after prices going up and quality going down for years. They forgot that people buy if the price and quality are good. Same with AI. It’s all fun if it’s free or dirt cheap, but people don’t buy expensive slop.
riskable@programming.dev 3 hours ago
If the cost of using it is lower than the alternative, and the market willing to buy it is the same. If the current cloud hosted tools cease to be massively subsidized, and consumers choose to avoid it, then it’s inevitably a historical footnote, like turbine powered cars, Web 3.0, and laser disk.
There’s another scenario: Turns out that if Big AI doesn’t buy up all the available stock of DRAM and GPUs, running local AI models on your own PC will become more realistic.
I run local AI stuff all the time from image generation to code assistance. My GPU fans spin up for a bit as the power consumed by my PC increases but other than that, it’s not much of an impact on anything.
I believe this is the future: Local AI models will eventually take over just like PCs took over from mainframes. There’s a few thresholds that need to be met for that to happen but it seems inevitable. It’s already happening for image generation where the local AI tools are so vastly superior to the cloud stuff there’s no contest.
Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works 6 hours ago
It’s all they had to say for me to continue ignoring Epic.
Rooster326@programming.dev 3 hours ago
What exactly is “Used AI” though?
Most developers are going to have some form of auto complete - AI powered or not.
Is it just assets? Or?
fonix232@fedia.io 8 minutes ago
And more and more engineers use genAI to generate code. Hell, even I do, because it's superb at getting the boilerplate ready from standard definitions, allowing me to focus on the important bits.
LLMs are also pretty great at extrapolating a good working document from basic requirements.
They're really just a quite knowledgeable but inexperienced intern, and any software engineer that refuses to utilise them to some extent will be left behind - just like those who refused to move to IDEs with syntax highlighting, autocomplete and other helper tools.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 hours ago
Autocomplete isn’t AI. It’s string recognition which predates AI by about 35 years.
T9 predictive texting definitely didn’t contain AI, but was absolutely a thing for a really long time.
froufox@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 hours ago
i think it’s impossible totally exclude ai from a developing process nowadays (you googled something? you use ai. etc.), but not having generated images/assets/texts is realistic
rtxn@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
auto complete
It’s called lexical analysis or lexical tokenization. It existed long before LLMs, it doesn’t rely on stolen code, and doesn’t consume a small village’s worth of electricity. Superficial parallels with chatbots do not make it AI – it’s a fucking algorithm.
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip 1 hour ago
I assume it refers to assets and mechanics that actively involve AI. If you’re using Copilot to finish your switch case, I don’t think that would count.
Hadriscus@jlai.lu 7 hours ago
Based Ayi Sanchez
witty_username@feddit.nl 6 hours ago
Counters calls to scrap disclosures… I don’t follow
nokturne213@sopuli.xyz 6 hours ago
Some douche nozzle from epic games said Stream needs to scrap their AI disclosure requirements because soon all games will be AI.
Darkcoffee@sh.itjust.works 6 hours ago
It also confirms what we already thought: these f***bucket big studios already think of gaming as a cheap product to generate money, not as a piece of art and enjoyment in its own right.
lefixxx@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Yeah it was hard to parse for me too
“valve ignores requests to remove ai disclosures”
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
I heard the new Game of Thrones game is using LLM’s to generate some of its content. Pisses me off.
Catoblepas@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 hours ago
If that’s true that takes my interest in it into the negatives. ASOIAF has about a million moving parts and very distinct characters with complex backstories, there’s not even a small chance an LLM could come close to imitating that.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
It’s just fan speculation at this point, but yeah. I’ll be thinking about it before I buy, if I do.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 hours ago
lots of big companies are using those to generate code
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
I don’t buy a lot of the big company games anyway.
QuantumTickle@lemmy.zip 5 hours ago
If “everyone will be using AI” and it’s not a bad thing, then these big companies should wear it as a badge of honor. The rest of us will buy accordingly.
Carighan@piefed.world 1 hour ago
I wish they'd replace Tim Sweeney with AI. Would genuinely have better takes on most topics, too. Sigh.
Devial@discuss.online 4 hours ago
If “everyone will be using AI”, AI will turn to shit.
They can’t create originality, they’re only recycling and recontextualising existing information. But if you recycle and recontextualise the same information over and over again, it keeps degrading more and more.
It’s ironic that the very people who advocate for AI everywhere, fail to realise just how dependent the quality of AI content is on having real, human generated content to input to train the model.
4am@lemmy.zip 2 hours ago
“The people who advocate for AI” are literally running around claiming that AI is Jesus and it is sacrilege to stand against it.
And by literally, I mean Peter Thiel is giving talks actually claiming this. This is not an exaggeration, this is not hyperbole.
They are trying to recruit techno-cultists.
Sl00k@programming.dev 1 hour ago
I think the grey area is what if you’re an indie dev and did the entire story line and artwork yourself, but have the ai handle more complex coding.
It is to our eyes entirely original but used AI. Where do you draw the line?