New Rules Could Force Tesla to Redesign Its Door Handles. That’s Harder Than It Sounds

Comments

• Zak@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  After renting a couple cars with electronic door poppers, I find them plainly worse than mechanical door latches. They’re a solution in search of a problem, and some implementations are hazardous.

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  • magic_smoke@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I think having an electric popper on top of an mechanical door latch (actual door handles are standard mechanic, but there’s solenoid that can actuate them independently) is okay if you can find an actual usecase.

    I mean sure still stupid but at least it isn’t dangerous.

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    • artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I think having an electric popper on top of an mechanical door latch is okay

      The problem with having both is that the electronic one is always the primary one, and the one people will use daily. In particular Tesla hides the mechanical ones really well. So in an emergency situation, people panic and have no idea where it is or how to use it.

      Same way electric locks have worked

      Electric locks actually serve a purpose though. And they’re not a danger to passengers inside. What purpose do electric door locks serve? Other than being more prone to failure and costing more money.

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  • SkyNTP@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I hear they are a solution to the problem of increasing mileage/efficiency. I am no fan of Tesla, but we have to admit, there is some merit to that argument, however debatable the efficiency benefits are.

    That’s not to say safety isn’t a serious issue. The biggest problem is the reliance on electronics. Now if someone can reinvent the design with a highly reliable mechanical system, with multiple redundancy.

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    • Humanius@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      To my knowledge, there are designs which allow you to pop out the latch without the need for electronics.

      However, if I’m reading the article correctly those wouldn’t be allowed either because in their default state they don’t have “enough room for a hand to grip behind them”.
      That wording alone explicitely bans flush doorhandles, and not just electronic doorhandles

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah I’m sorry, I’ll take normal door handles over a 0.01% increase in efficiency

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    • Zak@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’ve seen three designs for purely mechanical flush door handles in production use:

      • A handle with a central hinge where one side is pushed inward to make the other side stick out to be pulled. This design has been used on aircraft for many decades, and has also made its way to a few cars.
      • A pull-up door handle with an additional flap in front of the access area. This was used on the Subaru XT/Alcyone/Vortex.
      • A handle that pushes in to open, usually found on a portion of the door that’s more horizontal to the ground. Used on the C3 Corvette, among others.

      The push-then-pull central hinge is probably not a great choice for the application because its operation will be less obvious to a rescuer trying to get the door open quickly. It’s still better than something that requires electronics.

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  • artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    They were hazardous when they were on Corvettes too. They should have banned them back then.

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    • Zak@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The rental cars in question were, in fact Corvettes. Corvettes are still using them.

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  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    im occasional ride in my parents leased ioniq5 and the door handles are lik teslas, very flimsy to the feel.

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• rafoix@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Tesla disregarded all knowledge about automotive door safety to make a more expensive and much more dangerous door handle.

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This is literally what libertarians do for literally everything.

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    • rafoix@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Libertarians are just people too dumb to understand code requirements in every industry and profession.

      The only thing libertarians understand is that they can make more money if they charge a full price for a half-ass job.

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    • SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Hyperloop!

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    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      As a libertarian, that’s just not true. Elon Musk isn’t a libertarian either, he’s just an opportunist.

      The libertarian solution to things like regulations is court precedent. Setting that precedent should be the job of the attorney general and a jury, and the legislature should only make broad laws.

      This hopefully cuts down on government corruption since it’s theoretically harder to buy off a jury than legislators.

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    • kbobabob@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Did you just take a complete left turn into politics land?

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  • klobuerschtler@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Audi is following in all their new models…

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    • rafoix@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      🤮

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• AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The issues could cascade beyond the design. The auto manufacturing industry operates on strict production schedules. Though it builds in time to validate and test whatever new features come in each new model, the sudden intro of a design change late in the process could throw off the delicate timetable.

  FFS, it’s a bloody door handle, not full self driving tech. Author is full of BS.

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  • porcoesphino@mander.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    A lot of upvotes here, and I think they’re ignoring how much is involved in production pipelines and the overhead of sourcing suppliers. That said, Musk has a habit of throwing in last minute changes and the company manages to handle those but much like self driving they ship late

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    • filcuk@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah let’s see, if the handle would have to be a different shape, they may need a different cutout for the door, different handle moulds, different mechanical parts, updated electronics… does anyone have a fucking clue how difficult it is to program one of those robotic arms? How expensive new moulds are? Any other potential knock-on effects this may have on the internal design?

      People with the mentality of ‘it’s just a small plug at the bottom of the pool, how bad could it possibly be if we removed it’

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  • Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    You do not know or believe how much shit has to be pipelined to get a simple change on a car design going on the market. If you have knowledge about computers, you quickly notice that the hardware and software running in a car are OLD. I’ve seen cars sold as new with processors so old, they are “no longer recommended for new designs”. This is because every single thing has to be tested and approved to death in a car. Sometimes several times over.

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    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This is because every single thing has to be tested and approved to death in a car.

      This is tesla though, how much testing do they actually do before passing it to customers for free QA?

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  • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Government’s also tend to introduce grace periods. They announced that they are going to introduce a law and that that law will go into effect on x date. The manufacturing now has plenty of time to sell the current run of vehicles and then alter the design well ahead of the law coming into effect.

    You don’t just introduce a law and then implement it the following day. Well Trump does but no body else does.

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• NutWrench@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  “That’s harder than it sounds.”

  Is it, though? Is it really? We’ve been making manual car door latches for 100 years.

  It’s only hard for Musk, and only because he just doesn’t want to do it.

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  • BombOmOm@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Seriously. Every other car maker has figured out how to make normal door handles. You can even buy the parts directly from them if you find it too hard to design yourself.

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  • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • reptar@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Again, what did they miss? Spell it out for us, please!

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  • artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The point is that the entire passenger entry system has been designed around electronic door handles. So you might think it’s as simple as just swapping them for mechanical ones but it’s not.

    The handles are really just buttons. Requests to a computer.
    The “locks” are just a binary state of the entry system that determines if conditions are satisfied to release the mechanical latch when the request is made.

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    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      We’ve had electronic door locks with manual override for… 3 decades now?

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• MigratingApe@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Opel Corsa 1993 presents:

  Image

  Flat aerodynamic door handles.

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  • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Unless you’re planning to drive your car around at about 150 miles per hour I don’t imagine that the aerodynamicism of door handles really comes into account. Especially since you’ve still got wing mirrors, wipers, and aerials on the car.

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    • LyD@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It comes into play much sooner than that when you’re designing for maximum range on an electric vehicle.

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    • NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I looked into this a long time ago, and it was likely they were getting around 2-3 miles of extra range from it.

      I’d say it’s less important now, than it was back then when batteries weren’t as good.

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  • Hule@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    With two doors, half the problem is already solved!

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  • mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    that style is also a problem in the winter, though less so

    they are prone to breaking as they age when the door is frozen shut and you gotta pull hard

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• Demonmariner@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I read the article. It sounds like the auto makers concern is that they don’t think they have been given enough time to solve the problem (the problem being one which may kill people while we wait for a solution).

  I think we should give them all the time they want, as long as they stop selling cars without safe door handles RIGHT NOW.

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  • iloveDigit@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Your comment is giga based because it doesn’t let the overton window get shifted by being too suggestible.

    Your brain still went where logic goes, not where was suggested. So important at times like this.

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    • reptar@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      All in all, quality

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  • Soup@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    “We meed more time even though door handles are a solved problem.”

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• Dyskolos@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Great. Next please: no more touch-controls. I want back haptic buttons for the most important stuff.

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  • CannonFodder@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Touchscreens are infinitely reconfigurable. And the solution is cheaper. Some like the cleaner look when avoiding all the buttons and knobs.

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    • blakemiller@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Your delight ends where my safety begins. Taking your eyes off the road to operate your vehicle is a dangerous thing.

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    • Dyskolos@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Sure, for anything else than a car. But I don’t want to have to look at it while driving 250km/h, I want to feel if I have the right button and also pressed it. Pure safety.

      Everywhere else I’d surely prefer a touchscreen over haptic buttons. I mean I have through this great tech-evolution, I love it. But it all has its place, and the car doesn’t seem like the right place for it. At least not for everything.

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• skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I’m calling corpo lobbied bullshit. 2 years is enough time to put a normal door handle on your car.

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  • WALLACE@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Cars are designed up to 5 years in advance. Usually the last 2 years before production is dedicated to endurance testing.

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    • BanMe@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Tesla doesn’t do any of that, nor crash testing

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    • skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      They’re not being expected to design a whole new car from scratch though, are they.

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    • KillerWhale@orcas.enjoying.yachts ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      So how do they deal with routine and unexpected defects that every manufacturer deals with for every model?

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    • argarath@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      They don’t have to redesign an entire car, just the internal parts of a door that are related to a handle, that in the past they made work mechanically btw, so no, 2 years is more than enough to redesign and start implementing it

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  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    they got lazy, they fully adopted the electronic one, and dint want to “waste money” bringing back the old one, in thier recent and future models.

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  • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • pahlimur@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Redesigning the handle by 2027 is stupid easy. I have an masters in mechanical engineering, this could be done with mostly off the shelf parts. Tesla is being a bitch like normal.

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    • skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I read the article, and I’m calling bullshit on the excuses they’re putting up. The fact that they usually prefer a five year cycle, does not mean that it’s difficult to change the handles on the doors in two years if you need to.

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• echodot@feddit.uk ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Is this because the door handle is some complicated electronic mechanism rather than a latch? Gee who could have possibly predicted that would be a problem.

  My neighbour has a Tesla and last year I had great fun watching her trying to defrost her car enough to get the door handle to even come out.

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  • BombOmOm@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I have had to put quite a bit of force into a car door to get it to open on many an occasion. (Ice is a bitch) A normal door handle just works, stop trying to fix it!

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    • mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I hate the little flip up style handle on my car, known for its winter capability, which regularly freezes enough that you’re afraid it’ll break if you pull any harder

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    • Honytawk@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah, but in those cases you actually can get a grip to pull on.

      Unlike those hidden handles.

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  • artyom@piefed.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If the door handle is frozen, the whole car is probably frozen.

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  • x00z@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I think it’s mostly because of this: evseekers.com/why-do-tesla-windows-go-down-when-o… (Looks like AI slop but it does explain what I think it’s needed for)

    Many modern car doors do not have a frame around the top of the window. So to not damage the window or seal in the door frame, they temporary lower it a bit using electricity. I’m sure Tesla would be incompetent enough to make it so there’s no decent way to do it without this feature.

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• sramder@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Load of uninformed B.S. from the supply chain expert. There’s not a door out there that isn’t full of empty space.

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  • velvetThunder@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Bus door

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    • sramder@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Points! :-)

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• pyre@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  harder than it sounds… yeah the technology isn’t there yet! we need research and scientific breakthrough to invent a door handle that you can actually handle. no one’s even thought of the concept before.

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  • slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I can’t wait for elon musk to invent the door handle. I hope it’s another display

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  • shalafi@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • pyre@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      i very much did, actually. it’s just the bullshit recycled from the seatbelt mandate, except this is about the something cars already had a century ago.

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    • skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You’ve posted this in multiple places without explaining yourself, and your subsequent follow-ups have also just been questioning the person’s credentials and offering nothing of your own. You’re a classic example of the bullshit asymmetry principle, flooding the thread with low effort trolling.

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    • reptar@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Do go on

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• aesthelete@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I hate fucking “flush handles”. Good riddance to terrible garbage.

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  • pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I find them cool. But if they become unusable in freezing weather or kill people because of an overcomplex emergency release from the inside?..

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  • HiTekRedNek@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I had a 1989 Ford Probe without a handle that stuck out like a typical car. It was recessed instead.

    Better for fuel efficiency, which was the intention of these stupid flush mount ones Tesla has been fawning over.

    1st gen Ford Probe Door Handle

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  • innermachine@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I knew. A guy with a fully shaved mr2 (yes that means no door handles). Doors opened with a remote to operate the latch. He also had a cable run down under the side skirt, so if it failed you could manually pull the cable to get the door oprn. This was put together by a 24 year old in school, not some “genius”

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  • iloveDigit@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    At least they work as a quick visual cue that a car is designed with zero utilitarians in the room

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• AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Big government is oppressing small businesses again! Thanks Obama!

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• phutatorius@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Cry me a river.

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• SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Who cares? You only have yourself to blame for buying a Tesla.

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• EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Could they just use regular fucking door handles?

  I remember when people kept trying to assert that Tesla is a “luxury” brand, though it seems that this pretense has finally been dropped. Even so, surely they can figure out something that doesn’t seem to be an issue for even the cheapest tier of vehicles available in USDM.

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• Crashumbc@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The problem is this bullshit was allowed on the road in the first place.

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• muntedcrocodile@hilariouschaos.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Inside or outside? Ik they have issue with inside door handles and safety but I don’t see a need to redesign outside handles?

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• deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Wtf is “willingness to work from design-first principles”? Do Wired realize that the form of the handle follows the function of designing for better aerodynamics?

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• AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Will it? I’m skeptical of the translation since it’s obviously loose and casual, and more optimistic with the quote from Tesla saying they’re redesigning it …

  • article says mechanical release handles inside and out. Tesla model y could already be here depending on the details
  • articles says a hand must fit behind the handle, ruling out flush handles, but depending on the details, the model y may a Ready be there, as is the Opel Corsa in this thread
  • no mention of the electronic latch. I don’t get it, wouldn’t this be the actual most dangerous part?

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• lechekaflan@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Whatever. Luxury e-cars are the new Bimmers.

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• muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I love that this happens after little bitch Elon does Trumps bidding. Almost like that’s literally never worked out well for anyone.

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• Whostosay@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Oh cool, we should start looking into shit that matters.

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