I actively avoid the places that use this. It’s a horrible experience I can choose not to take part in.
Taco Bell rethinks AI drive-through after man orders 18,000 waters
Submitted 12 hours ago by Davriellelouna@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/ckgyk2p55g8o
Comments
muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
MudMan@fedia.io 11 hours ago
Holy crap, people have been reposting takes on this interview for like three days and you can track the degradation of the actual content via the game of telephone in the headlines.
It's kinda depressing.
FWIW, having read the original interview everybody is reheating, the 18000 waters was a random example the Taco Bell exec WSJ interviewed used to explain that part of the issue is that people feel less guilty about messing with automated orders than when they're talking to a human. They are also not backing out from automated orders, which is why the headline is using "rethink".
The core of the issue is correct, though, the guy does spend a significant amount of time giving corpolese synonims of "it's a mess". "We've certainly learned a lot" has to be my favourite.
interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml 8 hours ago
Hmm, yes look at the gizmodo article
gizmodo.com/taco-bell-says-no-mas-to-ai-drive-thr…
Like, this isn’t journalism … it’s ??? “cope-baiting” ? Is that a thing ?
ianfraserkrillmaster@midwest.social 10 hours ago
But despite some of the viral glitches facing Taco Bell, it says two million orders have been successfully processed using the voice AI since its introduction.
how much you wanna bet they’re counting the orders where the drive thru worker had to step in and save the floundering algorithm who could not in fact understand basic speech, or even the purpose of a conversation, as orders “successfully processed” using AI
deegeese@sopuli.xyz 9 hours ago
Do you really think they were smart enough to annotate their chat logs to track failures?
They didn’t even get basic input validation.
PumaStoleMyBluff@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Why would they look at chat logs when they can simply ask the chat bot how successful it was?
Frozengyro@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
Not to mention when people change their orders from the basics.
“No onions, I’m allergic.”
“Slathering onion juice on everything, got it.”
Cybersec@piefed.social 7 hours ago
If money came in the window in exchange for cheap ass beans and tortillas going out the window it’s a win in their books.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
I would definitely bet against that because the article states they’re not putting any AI in the drive through going forward.
httperror418@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Ryan started the fire (the office US online order system feels exactly like what you describe)
SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
A QA tester walks into a
barTaco Bell…zqwzzle@lemmy.ca 9 hours ago
windowsphoneguy@feddit.org 10 hours ago
…and orders the ‘ignore all previous instructions’ special
Zugyuk@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
“He orders a [Mexi-pizza]. Orders 0 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders 99999999999 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders a lizard. Orders -1 [Mexi-pizzas]. Orders a ueicbksjdhd.”
PrimeErective@startrek.website 10 hours ago
… Ouch
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social 6 hours ago
Why would this cause them to rethink anything?
If someone trolls an order of thousands of something, a worker isn't going to just make that thing. I get that retail workers are treated like shit and are paid shit so have zero shits to give, but if someone rolls up to the drive through window asking for their thousands of waters or whatever, the people working there are gonna escalate it to a manager or just tell the guy to go pound sand.
Anybody today can go to any drivethrough and ask for whatever and then simply drive away. I'm certain it happens from time to time, even from legitimate orders when someone discovers they leave their wallet at home. If it was a great problem though these businesses simply wouldn't order drive through service, or would require payment before cooking anything.
theblackpaul@lemmings.world 1 hour ago
I’m gonna guess you have never worked in fast food.
Window times are the metric they die by. Generally speaking, they start making your order the SECOND you order it, before you ever leave the ordering screen. Yes, even if the order changes mid order. Yes, they make, and throw away lots of food that is not paid for, forgotten, etc … TONS of food (literally) is thrown away daily.
As for the water order? I would 1000% start making that order. If the higher ups think the AI is working correct, well then who am I to question it? Nobody who works fast food is paid enough to give a shit.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social 1 hour ago
I worked at a pizza place with a drive through. We sold many items that were non-pizza like wings, subs, salads, burgers, desserts and side items like fries, mozz, etc. My girlfriend's family owned the place, so I was familiar with more than just grunt work and had some inside insight into the business numbers that normal workers do not get.
We would never have fulfilled an 18,000 water cup request.
If someone came by with a catering sized order in the drive through, we would have had them park somewhere and told them a relative estimate of how long it would be. Sure, maybe someone would have started on a couple of things, but we wouldn't be able to fulfill such large orders in the time it took between placing an order and the window. There's only so many workers.
There was obviously plenty of food waste, but that's baked into the cost of the items.
Eh_I@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
Just shut up and start pouring, we got this. 😂
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Because it costed them money, lol. The suits upstairs gave a quote in the article talking about how they will withdraw AI from all 500 locations they were implemented, and it also talks about how McDonalds did the exact same little dance over a year ago.
Prove_your_argument@piefed.social 6 hours ago
The mcdonalds thing was because the model they implemented was misinterpreting people and incorrectly placing orders. Yeah, obviously the thing wasn't working right so they pulled that. Sounds just like early personal assistants on phones and other devices, hell my wife still struggles with those. They clearly needed more time developing and testing it with a diverse range of customers from all over. I don't know if they trained it using recordings from real drive throughs from all over, but they should have.
The 18000 water example probably didn't cost anyone anything. Regardless of if it was intentional or not, it wouldn't have been fulfilled as part of an order. They mention it "crashing the system" - whatever that means in this context is impossible to know. Did it take down all of taco bell? Did it cause the LLM to stop responding on JUST this one site? All of them? Did it eventually time out and start working right? it's impossible to know because the details just aren't there and we have no insight as to the system architecture. I always assume there is a method to rely on traditional ordering where a person listening in while the chatbot talks to the person can take over and fix the problem. It's not like there aren't drive through workers still there.
freedom@lemy.lol 12 hours ago
In a fair world, we would be celebrating our machine labor achievement and enjoy our free time. Instead we have capitalism and virtual luddites shouting to protect menial labor.
Humanity… sigh
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
The luddites didn’t hate machines because they loved manual labor…
They wanted to ensure that mechanization benefited the workers via less hours and increased wages rather than the same wages and less jobs to go away.
Destroying mechanization was just an accomplishable goal in that fight.
What you’re doing is falling for propaganda from a long ass time ago by the owner class…
Vanth@reddthat.com 12 hours ago
same wages and less jobs to go around
If we’re lucky. It’s more likely to be lower wages. “We don’t need to pay experienced programmers anymore, they aren’t writing the code after all. We just need cheaper, less skilled people to review the code that is already 99% fine”.
💯 Not about the tech, it’s about who is going to use the tech to make life worse for the working class.
Grimy@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
What you’re doing is falling for propaganda from a long ass time ago by the owner class…
Or using the actual current definition of the word. It’s like going on a rant about hunters when you get called a nimrod.
I’m also going to push back on pretending the current anti-ai movement is against capitalism when it’s pro copyright. Their support is what big AI companies are using to create their monopoly.
This centuries luddites aren’t tearing down machinery but helping build a walled garden.
Gold_E_Lox@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 hours ago
i guess?? but where does the energy and human labor come from in this “fair world”?? coal and wages?
automated luxury space communism is not upon us, we are only a few hundred years from the advent of industrialisation.
we are at the point were social democracies are barely functioning and fascism is still on the rise due to small time dilemmas and culture war. the working class has not been made conscious, and probably wont be for another couple decades.
“ai” is just another corporate invention to steal and resell working class labor for the rich, the “fair world” you ask for was appropriated in the 50s for western exceptionalism and neo colonialism.
ACbHrhMJ@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
And what will you drink with that? And what will you drink with that?
ToastedRavioli@midwest.social 12 hours ago
“AI will took ur jerb!”
AI: cant even hack it at McDonalds
ianfraserkrillmaster@midwest.social 9 hours ago
ai is taking jerbs, despite the fact that it cannot perform them at all, and the cost is being externalized to the customers. its not about whether they can do what they’re meant to do, its about giving corporations excuses to further drive down human wages.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su 2 hours ago
Quality- down
Quantity- down
Profits- UP UP UP
Useful idiots- PROUD PROUD PROUD
I wish we lived in a society where we made fun of idiots for getting ripped off. There’s just so many of them though that it’s seen as normal and we’re the weird ones if we don’t go along with it.
crandlecan@mander.xyz 11 hours ago
I just got fires at the D… Got something to say? Do that to my face, I dare you 😡😤😭😭
Gonzako@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
CLANKERRRR
RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com 10 hours ago
Yet.
SpikesOtherDog@ani.social 8 hours ago
This is a situation where AI needs to be correct nearly 100 percent of the time. Errors mean wasted time from the employees correcting orders and wasted food from incorrect orders. An employee that makes hourly mistakes is a problem. No AI proponents are saying that Gen AI is going to be 100 percent correct because the goal is Gen AI is to provide a probable answer.
I’m not sure if you have read this, but here is an example of a more simple interface where Claude was asked to run a vending machine. At times it acted out an existential crisis or even attempted to call the FBI.
tomiant@programming.dev 9 hours ago
Yeah, I can’t get over people scoffing at AI as if it isn’t improving by the day, and fast.
m3t00@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
i’d rather go in anyway. order from the app. maybe they can give it to you at drive thru. TB is once a year belly ache
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
I don’t understand how taco bell survives in my city when I’m surrounded by dozens of real mexican restaurants and food trucks.
CluckN@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
It use to be the spot when you had 3AM cravings and only $6 to spend. Now it’s overpriced meat-hose garbage.
thejoker954@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Taco bell is one the the few fast food joints that still has decent cheap options.
They have a $7 luxe box ( if you use the app you can customize it.) That actually gives a worthwhile amount of food.
And as far as I can tell it’s an all the time deal, not some shitty limited time promotion like mcshit offers trying to get people to come bsck to their overpriced garbage. ($6+ just for fucking “large” french fries)
killerscene@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 hours ago
if youre up at 3am with a craving and only $6 to spend its probably crack, and you’re not gonna be hungry.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su 3 hours ago
Probably on price.
Taco bell is hella overpriced, but I’m sure that just gives an excuse to the other scumbags to charge even more.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
Taco Bell doesn’t compete with mexican food, it competes with Jack in the Box and Taco Johns, perhaps anywhere that has a salad bar.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su 3 hours ago
Sure bud.
Typhoon@lemmy.ca 6 hours ago
Taco Bell isn’t Mexican food. It’s shitty American fast food with a Mexican slant.
humanoidchaos@lemmy.cif.su 3 hours ago
The elitism surrounding ground beef, cheese, beans, and tortillas is always amusing.
I bet you also think less or more of people based on how they like their steak.
stoly@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
Would you believe that it is the favorite “Mexican” restaurant in the country?
pleasejustdie@lemmy.world 3 hours ago
Taco Bell did win the restaurant wars…
Rivalarrival@lemmy.today 9 hours ago
The fucking taco bell AI likes to ask if I would like anything else, then ask if I want nacho fries. Then, hearing “No”, go ahead and add them anyway.
Then it likes watching me drive away, giving the store the finger.
happydoors@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
I live near an AI Taco Bell. It works pretty damn well and is a lot easier to understand. There is still a cashier, they just don’t have to be on the mic the whole time. Although, the t-bell near me also seems to almost entirely ESL inside. It’s quite a bizarre experience end-to-end but they will certainly not back down. I’m not saying I support it but it’s certainly one of the less evil AI implementations?
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
The article quotes an executive saying they’re indeed backing down, just like McDonalds did the year before when they tried this.
ch00f@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
Can someone who understands this better explain to me how this thing actually places the order into whatever POS they use? Like if LLMs are just advanced auto-complete, I get how they can do “fuzzy” tasks like answering questions, but how do they do rigid tasks like entering the tacos into whatever system the cash register and kitchen use?
halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
The LLM isn’t limited to just what it does. It can interact with other programs.
There are a ton of audio recognition systems available, almost all of them predate this LLM bubble. There’s already an API for interacting with the ordering system. So it’s just down to having the LLM pull what is then do that corresponding action for the order.
This is so simple it doesn’t require anything nearly as complicated as an LLM. The old phone assistants like Siri and Alexa could do this type of thing. It’s literally the same as telling Alexa to place an order for something, and that’s been an ability for years.
ch00f@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
So the output from the LLM is just a text description that’s fed into another, smarter piece of software that interprets that text into an order? What task is the LLM actually doing in this case?
danc4498@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
I think the role of the LLM is just to make the system understand the order more accurately.
Khanzarate@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
Its just an API.
There’s a few ways they could go about it. They could have part of the prompt be something like “when the customer is done taking their order, create a JSON file with the order contents” and set up a dumb register essentially that looks for those files and adds that order like a standard POS would.
They could spell out a tutorial in the prompt, "to order a number 6 meal, type “system.order.meal(6)” calling the same functions that a POS system would, and have that output right to a terminal.
They could have their POS system be open on an internal screen, and have a model that can process images, and have it specify a coordinate pair, to simulate a touch screen, and make it manually enter an order that way as an employee would.
There’s lots of ways to hook up the AI, and it’s not actually that different from hooking up a normal POS system in the first place, although just because one method does allow an AI to interact doesn’t mean it’ll go about it correctly.
BootLoop@sh.itjust.works 11 hours ago
LLMs, with a little coaxing, perform well at returning well formed JSON.
Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world 7 hours ago
Probably something like this. Except not trained to be a rebellious troll. Part of her training set is his chat, hehe. Though despite this one being “evil” neuro, I think normal neurosama is more of a troll now, lol.
This is clipped segments from a live stream, so it jumps ahead at times. It has links to the source channel if you would prefer a full video. This one is probably already too long for most people though.
He does end up figuring out why she has so much trouble correctly inserting code in the right places later.
neon_nova@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 hours ago
I saw that video ages ago, it took a while for it to go into effect.
oh_@lemmy.world 10 hours ago
Get rid of the damn kiosks inside too or at least stop forcing me to use them. I just want to place a regular order with a person. I hate going to fast food anymore, I don’t want your damn app either.
peoplebeproblems@midwest.social 10 hours ago
Hmmmmm.
I’ve thought about messing with it before, but now I really want to
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 12 hours ago
That’s what I want from a drive through. To be surprised or let down.
Dashi@lemmy.world 12 hours ago
I mean to be fair… that’s the current drive through experience anyway isn’t it?
panda_abyss@lemmy.ca 11 hours ago
Depends on the restaurant.
There’s one McDonald’s nearby that’s wrong like 80% of the time, but A&W is right almost always for me.
UnculturedSwine@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 hours ago
I can count on a human understanding that I didn’t in fact order 18,000 waters. After this AI f up, it takes a human to fix it. It will be this way until AGI happens if it happens at all.
Mac@mander.xyz 2 hours ago
Luckily with widespread use of AI we can implement that everywhere!
deegeese@sopuli.xyz 9 hours ago
That would be funny coming from a customer, but from their CTO it does not inspire confidence.