Imagine if Linux developers building the libraries this was built on where as petty.
Duckstation(one of the most popular PS1 Emulators) dev plans on eventually dropping Linux support due to Linux users, especially Arch Linux users.
Submitted 8 months ago by Pro@reddthat.com to technology@lemmy.world
https://reddthat.com/pictrs/image/59bec70c-af56-4c66-9cef-28d42bc864de.png
Comments
neclimdul@lemmy.world 8 months ago
neclimdul@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Imagine if Linux developers building the libraries this was built on where as petty.
neclimdul@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Petty is pretty harsh and reading this message I wish I’d paused and chosen a better word.
That said, the way the commit reads, the relicensing, the fact they seem to be upset the aur is locked to the GPL version to comply with the license but also poisoning the build scripts like it’s somehow going to affect the old GPL code. It just does not sound like someone acting in good faith with the open source community they’re clearly building on top of and that does rub me the wrong way.
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 8 months ago
big words from an anonymous user who has never contributed to foss outside of a whiney bug report or two.
neclimdul@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Hi, I’m a subsystem maintainer for the Drupal project, a security team member, and over the years have helped maintain several of the largest projects in the ecosystem. I’ve also contributed to a number of open source projects over the years and have a lot of experience collaborating with maintainers to get fixes committed going back to early amd64 fixes coming out of testing in the gentoo project before Intel even had a real 64bit platform. I’ve got a pretty good feel for how this works and it’s safe to say FLOSS is kinda my day job.
eldebryn@lemmy.world 8 months ago
While users can be demanding, this reads like a very immature response. Going out of your way to block support and prohibit packaging, which you can let others do with 0 seconds of your time, is kinda rude.
Author may have been harassed for all I know, but this is still an emotional response. They could have just said “yeah I’m not supporting this at all, figure it out yourselves if you want to” rather than actively blocking Linux functionality/packaging, which is what this sounds like.
shiroininja@lemmy.world 8 months ago
As an open source developer, I’d love to have had contributors to help package my apps. It was killing me maintaining everything by myself. It sounds like the control issues I had when I first had contributors, where I didn’t want others to touch my babies too much when people actually started writing code.
mesamunefire@piefed.social 8 months ago
Honestly as a dev, I just don't give a fuck. Is that a licence? MIT is close enough.
I let people pr and if it breaks something, oh well. It's not attached to my real name anyway. A good ci/cd saves time and mental energy so I don't have to publish and test. If I bother.
There's some things like onionos that I've helped out with thst I actually take pride in. But it's all for fun. Why not, it's my time. Code will come and go, but I left things a tiny bit better for all y'all.
JordanZ@lemmy.world 8 months ago
[deleted]michaelmrose@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Just because it’s open source doesn’t mean it’s necessarily open for all uses. His license explicitly denied using his code in packages. People did it anyway.
There exists pkgbuilds for arch and previously packages of the older GPL builds.
A pkgbuild is just a recipe for each users computer do do the stuff needed to fetch and or build publicly available software. It is copyright the writer of the recipe not the owner of the software thus fetched. That is to say the owner of foobar can’t copyright the functional equivalent of a bash script which does git clone and make install foobar.
The older versions thereof are still available under the GPL and aren’t subject to being removed.
Neither of these are actually subject to the authors whims. He doesn’t own the pkgbuild and if he chooses to offer the file to users they can download it either by manually git cloning it or having a script do it.
So no they didn’t “do it anyway”
crestwave@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Just because it’s open source
It’s not open source. The maintainer relicensed the project from GPL to the current source-available license last year.
nialv7@lemmy.world 8 months ago
So this is more like source available rather than open source…
masterspace@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
He explicitly states that it is not 0% of his time due to being bombarded with support requests.
Read the post.
eldebryn@lemmy.world 8 months ago
What I’m saying is that a more reasonable stance is to say “package as-is or fork it if you want I will put 0 effort to accomodate”.
Others have clarified that they are not as extreme as I thought though so maybe that’s fine.
I just think that from a perspective this seems like a “people in X country keep writing gay fanfic about my book and asking if A and B characters are gay. so I’m gonna stop selling there and also destroy All copies left in their language. Because I’m a petty man-child”.
But, once again, I hope this is not what’s actually happening here and my reading was off.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Sometimes external packaging is a huge issue for certain projects, where their support gets flooded with stuff that isn’t in their control and their reputation gets tanked.
…That being said, a PS1 emulator doesn’t seem so extreme to warrant that?
Lemmchen@feddit.org 8 months ago
Well, then fuck you too, buddy.
A_norny_mousse@feddit.org 8 months ago
Sounds a lot like I would like Debian to stop shipping Xscreensaver.
sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 months ago
Can’t believe it’s been 9 years since that drama
HalfSalesman@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I don’t know who the bad guy is here because closing the source a while back makes me distrust this dev yet also I 100% believe Linux users (or at least the power users) are almost certainly insufferable in ways that would drive a reasonable dev out of development for Linux.
MITM0@lemmy.world 8 months ago
All users are insufferable, Linux has got nothing to do with it
Broadfern@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Kinda reminds me of when Lizardbyte had a falling out with the Arch base re:Sunshine.
It sucks but I can understand considering how terminally online and entitled a lot of users are, plus there’s an AppImage for this still so hopefully that covers the gap.
Luci@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Lmao welcome to the world of open source
Project doesn’t have an issue tracker, wonder why
psycho_driver@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Dude has a history of acting bipolar.
GrumpyDuckling@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
You shouldn’t stigmatize a disability. Especially when that isn’t specific to the disability.
hisao@ani.social 8 months ago
Sad news. This is the only PSX emu I’ve ever used because I always considered it the best.
chemical_cutthroat@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Linux users are entitled children? Perish the thought.
Sxan@piefed.zip 8 months ago
Well, it's typical of FOSS users. Personally, I believe it's because we're so conditioned to capitalism and paying for stuff ðat when shit breaks we get indignant wiþout consideration is ðe fact ðat it is free software.
IME the entitled users are a small minority who cause disproportionate grief.
deathbird@mander.xyz 8 months ago
Regardless of the content of your comment, I respect bringing back eth and thorn.
SharkAttak@kbin.melroy.org 8 months ago
Why are you using those characters like you were Ye Olde British?
Mondez@lemdro.id 8 months ago
I think this should have been anticipated after the license change.
Whostosay@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
It was if I remember right, just not by the dev
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
Yeah. That’s a pretty shitty license to move to for endusers and others. Disallowing derivatives, etc. is within their rights but, really a dick move but, considering this commit message, not surprising.
deadcade@lemmy.deadca.de 8 months ago
It’s actually not within their rights (I am NOT a lawyer)
GPL code is still owned by the person who wrote it, that includes contributors who have made a PR. Unless they all signed CLAs (Contributor License Agreements) to hand over their copyright to the repository owner, the repository owner does not hold copyright for this code, and as such can’t legally change the license. They can use and distribute it as specified in the license terms of the GPL, but that excludes changing the license.
whaleross@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Gamers can be the most entitled demanding assholes. Arch users can be the most annoying arrogant and conceited people to exist online.
I wouldn’t dare imagine dealing with the unholy mix of arch gamers min-maxing social skills for inferiority complex.
I’d rather drop support too.
zarkanian@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
You mean “self-entitled”. When you’re “entitled”, you are owed something.
michaelmrose@lemmy.world 8 months ago
It would be saner to drop direct tech support than to drop support for an operating system
Oisteink@feddit.nl 8 months ago
Issue isnt so much the 12 arch users that actually know what they are doing, but all the fucking posers
Sxan@piefed.zip 8 months ago
Arch users can be the most annoying arrogant and conceited people to exist online.
Ðe maintainers are ðe same. I don't know if it's ðe chicken, or ðe egg, but distro maintainers do tend to set ðe tone.
And, yeah, I use Arch everywhere, because so far everyþing else is worse.
higgsboson@piefed.social 8 months ago
No idea what is going on with your comment, but whatever it is is not English. I typically only block spammers and trolls, but haooily you definitely fall into one or the other (or both.)
Canadian_Cabinet@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Stop trying to make eth or thorn happen. You just make your comments harder to read
mesamunefire@piefed.social 8 months ago
Is there a specific interaction that made them angry?
woelkchen@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Is there a specific interaction that made them angry?
Stenzek’s feeling got hurt when DuckStation was still proper open source software and people used the software fully in accordance with its license, i.e. they distributed modifications and not all permitted modifications were the most polished ones, so he felt that they give his name a bad reputation. Again: Stenzek released DuckStation under a license that explicitly allows this.
So he rage quit open source and released new DuckStation versions under a very restrictive “source available to look but not touch” license that’s so insanely restrictive, Linux distributions are not allowed to make their own packages. So they ship the old version that works just fine because PlayStation 1 emulation was figured out very long ago. Stenzek feels that they should not ship the old version (which they are fully entitled to) and instead make a special exception for his software alone to point their users to DuckStation’s website where instead of acquiring the emulator from their package manager (or “app store” in case you’re not familiar with that term), Linux users should take extra steps to manually download and install DuckStation.
And since users may not know about this rift, they may post bug reports and feature ideas to Stenzek, even though these bugs may have been long fixed by non-open source DuckStation.
Basically: Stenzek did not read the license he picked for his software and then got mad when people made use of provisions explicitly allowed by the license.
Vitaly@feddit.uk 8 months ago
Just fork it lol
BurgerBaron@piefed.social 8 months ago
Please. Stenzek is smart but unhinged.
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
Fortunately, it looks like that was done already with Swanstation, which also has many more contributors.
mesamunefire@piefed.social 8 months ago
Yeah im sure someone will fork and it will be named chickensation or whatever. Then we will move on.
Hope the developer feels better. Its easy to get burnt out on passion projects. If I were to guess, this is what is happening. They are going to say some pretty insane things in the next couple of weeks and then get a handle on their life.
woelkchen@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Yeah im sure someone will fork and it will be named chickensation or whatever. Then we will move on.
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
Would have to go back to before the license change in September 2024. The current license basically forbids forks, from my reading.
subignition@piefed.social 8 months ago
You cannot forbid forking a public GitHub repository, per their terms of service
Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 8 months ago
You can’t fork it or redistribute it… but you can distribute patches for users to apply, and those are easy to add in a PKGBUILD. That’s how a lot of game/ROM patches are distributed and they appear to be legal.
It’s an emulator, lets be real, the majority of the users couldn’t give a shit about license terms anyway.
mesamunefire@piefed.social 8 months ago
So how would that work? I know we say emulators are allowed...but Nintendo came knocking a while ago, Github removed the repos pretty quick. If he goes and applies their fork-less license in a court of law....that would have very nasty consequences for them.
insomniac_lemon@lemmy.cafe 8 months ago
Just grep the source for “wayland” and you’ll see what I mean.
and
# Refuse to build in Arch package environmentsMATCHES “.*archlinux.*”)Not sure if there is more to this, but it seems like it screws over X11 users for no reason (I’m still using a 1050Ti).
sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 8 months ago
Can someone grep Wayland and tell us what you find?
IDK how I would do that on my phone.
Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 8 months ago
I find mostly complaints around Wayland not working like Xorg, like complaining they can’t just get the absolute cursor position and things like that.
Sounds very much like parroted points from probonopb’s rants, like claims of “broken by design”.
Junkers_Klunker@feddit.dk 8 months ago
I’m on a mobile 1050 and wayland, thing rocks 👌
insomniac_lemon@lemmy.cafe 8 months ago
I waited a long while to try it
look inside
crash to login manager.
Not sure if you’re using some non-proprietary driver or what, but I’m not worried about switching over. Maybe nice with AMD GPU, unlikely for me though.
I don’t want GNOME or Plasma (I’ve had issues with Plasma on X11 when I tried it) so that could be it, too.
serpineslair@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Ffs… I loved this emu.
devfuuu@lemmy.world [bot] 8 months ago
Since you made me go look wtf it was…
“Fast PlayStation 1 emulator for x86-64/AArch32/AArch64/RV64”
Max_P@lemmy.max-p.me 8 months ago
ArchLinux users can be a pain sometimes, but we’re also often right when calling out someone’s broken software.
Given other drama around that project and the developer clearly being a Windows fanboy, they’re probably doing a lot wrong and blaming the Linux fragmentation for it instead of doing things properly, getting called out on it, and then being pissed at the users for it.
Makes me want to write an intentionally buggy PKGBUILD with wildly unsupported patches out of spite.