Submitted 1 day ago by Rooskie91@discuss.online to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
Even if we take into consideration that 90% (out of 25) could be lying (they aren’t), that’s still ~3 women he assaulted.
If this were the case, Republicans would easily find 30 women to lie against Kamala Harris or whoever the next Democratic candidate is
There is a reason the Tara Reade allegations didn’t derail Biden’s campaign.
Ah. But according to the post we should’ve trusted her
Let them. Let them lie. They don’t care about truth, evidence, or justice. Why should we care what they lie about?
Unfortunately…they can say the same thing about us. So we try to be fair and exercise a judicial system
Because they’re female, apparently.
Because they have control of every branch of the government.
I don’t think you understand how proof works
evidence needs to be present to determine guilt.
nice try though. release the files.
Whitness testimony under oath isn’t just evidence, it’s admissable evidence in a court of law.
Nice try tho.
Not true.
Not all witness testimony under oath is admissible.
Just because someone is under oath doesn’t mean their testimony is automatically allowed in court. There are rules of evidence (like hearsay, relevance, competence, etc.) that still apply.
Testimony under oath can be evidence, but it’s not automatically admissible. Courts have strict filters for what testimony gets presented to a jury. Being under oath isn’t a magic pass.
And people never lie under oath…
Yep, it's a huge part of the court system. There'd be far less convictions if we decided not to accept witness testimonial about things
You haven’t actually proven anything, you’ve just modelled a possible scenario.
Gee I wonder who this guy(male) voted for
Oh, yes, stoop to sexism and attacking the commenter’s character, that’s really convincing.
This is also known as sophistry - an argumentation tactic, which means you aren’t interested in the truth, just winning an argument. You should become a lawyer.
A functioning judicial system is a prerequisite to any sort of accountability. And if we had a judicial system that served the people, then the Epstein client list would be known and prosecuted. The problem is we have a two-tiered justice system.
Maybe not a court provable thing, but the takeaway here is that conservatives specifically are willing to give this man infinite benefit of the doubt, to a level never seen before. Even if we can’t throw his disgusting rapist ass in jail, he should 100% not be allowed to be president, much less actually succeed in that effort. It’s sick and fuckin weird. If you look over all the actual criminal and civil convictions, along with general aggregate proof, additionally the proof of just being a small, bigoted, racist, narcissistic POS, and stack on top of alllll that these other general allegations, the man is clearly an unforgivablly worthless sack of shit that no reasonable person could possibly look up to. That’s why true chump supporters are all either completely fooled by disinformation they CHOOSE to believe over all else, or “ends justify means” types who are lying to not look like pieces of shit themselves and live in a state of irrational fear, or straight up supportive of hate directly i.e. Nazis.
Do women trust women? If all women had voted for Kamala she would have won.
Kamala doesn’t trust women so that’s a garbage argument. judging by the way she treats incarcerated trans women
Except the women who are forced to vote for whoever their gun-loving, abusive, MAGA husband wants.
Why do you think so many women voted against their best interests?
Aren’t votes cast in secret?
Why do you think so many women voted against their best interests?
Fun fact: dumb women exist.
They voted for what they believed to be in their best interest.
Human stories/word/memory is incredibly fallible (be it because of how flawed humans are either biologically or behaviourally) that nothing outside of law enforcement uses human stories/word/memory as reliable evidence.
So no, testifying under oath will not be considered as evidence to anyone who values provable, testable fact.
And the award for “not reading or understanding what I wrote” goes to…
That’s not how evidence works but I appreciate the thought
It is tho, whiteness testimony is admissable evidence in a court of law.
Hm, while a witness’s testimony may be evidence, iiuc, it would only be one piece of evidence. I think what’s important is whether the evidence in question can be considered sufficient.
Yes but they're WOMEN so their words don't count and/or they're lying /whores/gold diggers
i hate trump, epstein and the other pedos but this post is retarded anyway
This is almost dehumanizing to women, like they don’t possess the basic traits of people. People lie, people take advantage, people are fucking people. And not all people are good. Are you really acting like as about 50% of the human population, there are no malicious women? Imagine if you were on the other side of a legitimate accusation, but we’re confused for someone else? Due process is there for a reason
Get out with your bullshit, OP. People here are leftist and liberal; that doesn’t mean you can exploit their empathy to further your own bias.
Edit: Damn y’all, thanks for that old internet feeling I keep coming back to Lemmy for. Not a girl in sight in these comments.
Thanks for this edit. As expected, you’re resorting to patronizing behavior if people don’t agree with you. What does gender of people commenting on this thread or lemmy have to do with anything and why would someone reveal their gender here, and you are using a classic case of “if you don’t Y you are not X”
Yep. It's highly unlikely so many women are lying about one of the most powerful men in the world who has many followers and the power to totally destroy them. Look at the abuse Christine Ford got ffs. Sorry you're getting so much shit here
OP said that we don’t need proof if we believe women. You say “it’s unlikely” in support. So do you wanna jail those that are “unlikely” to be innocent? You have any idea how insane that is to say? Ffs…
Where did I say about jailing?
Fuck off Amber Heard.
that’s why i don’t think anything’s gonna change for powerful men on the epstein list if it gets released. many of these men already have allegations of sexual abuse against them and they still live their life just fine
(also, holy shit those comments??? that post about how lemmy is worse for women than reddit was wasn’t lying, jesus)
If I call you a terrorist I guess I can expect you to be picked up tomorrow morning? You people just have an utterly deranged sense of logic. You cannot convict someone without proof, regardless of the alleged crime and how strong your personal feelings on the matter are.
If I call you a terrorist I guess I can expect you to be picked up tomorrow morning?
i mean isn’t that exactly what’s happening in the US right now
in a world that’s as hostile to survivors of SA as ours, yea i believe them when they make accusations. does this hold up in court? no of course not, of course you need proof*, but it’s worth mentioning that many times accusations can’t even make it to court because police doesn’t believe survivors either!
* well except if you’re white and the person you’re accusing isn’t. there “justice” is waaaay more lenient about what proof is, and the police has a much easier time believing you too. but that’s more telling of the racism of the justice system than of how SA survivors just always get what they want
So fuck due process then, huh. Also Perjury is a thing.
You are a textbook fascist
There’s all this talk about “evidence” but what exactly would make those files more credible as evidence than testimonies of multiple women? A list of names is just a list of names. It doesn’t prove shit. Having been on Epstein’s island doesn’t prove anything, either. Private conversations or a diary containing a detailed description of every incident could also just be people joking around or having fucked up fantasies. The only legitimate “proof” I could think of would be photo and video evidence (other than medical records, which don’t even exist in a lot of SA cases), but why the fuck would they ever release that unless it’s with the victims’ consent, which I doubt they’ll ever (care to) acquire? Never mind that even that won’t convince his most die-hard supporters because they (and Trump himself) will just resort to the claim that it’s all deepfakes. Even if you just hand out a list of the photo/video evidence that exists, how do you know those photos and videos actually do exist?
If multiple women accuse a single guy who has said multiple highly questionable things in the past and was friends with/has had connections to a sex offender, then that’s pretty fucking damning, but I don’t remember the public caring much about it or heavily pushing for an investigation or a trial to look into it further (but I do remember that at least one woman dropped the case because she was receiving death threats), which is one of the reasons why people like him keep getting away it, and really just comes down to the public not believing women or taking them seriously enough, even if there’s multiple of them accusing the same man.
It also makes you wonder what that means for cases where there’s no “concrete” evidence like medical records or photos/videos in the first place, which will be the majority of cases.
Rape kits, pictures, video, written testimonies not from right now but in the past.
That’s evidence that proves things beyond reasonable doubt
Right, and we wouldn’t need judges if everyone just believes a suspected murderer is a murderer.
The truth status of accusations is going to be correlated. If 90% of accusations against someone are definitely false, the remaining 10% are likely to be false too.
So, by that logic, if you lose 3 major cases, there are 27 more to look for cuz he guilty:
I would love to see every single accusation investigated and prosecuted to the fullest extent. Of course since we are in the darkest timeline the Cheeto Benito will abuse his power to suppress, quash, and delay as much as he can…
I’m not saying he’s innocent.
None of the accusations have been proven false though. (As far as I know)
It would help if there weren’t millions of dollars, entire organizations, and even the government that is trying to silence them and cover this up. This isn’t an issue of people not believing the women as I’m sure the average person has been sceptical with this from the beginning. The problem is that the guilty are rich and powerful enough that they can make their problems disappear. The problem isn’t that the people want to know who’s guilty (I’m sure most of the names won’t even be that surprising) it’s that they want to know why the guilty are getting away with it and why the government is actively protecting these monsters. Its the fact that they can get away with whatever the fuck they want, even raping children, and still get to live their lives like nothing ever happened. It’s why everyone on both sides of politics don’t really care who’s on the list, they just want some actual fucking consequences.
The rich and the elites already get away with so much bullshit, and if we let them get away with something as awful as this we might as well give up on calling ourselves civilized.
They’re all PAID by CROOKED HILLARY and JOE BIDEN to slander the SACRED NAME of the most PURE and NOBLE and trustworthy Donald TRUMP🇺🇸 DRAIN THE SWAMP!!!
THANK YOU FOR YOUR ATTENTION TO THIS MATTER! /j
Thanks Kalcifer, very cool!
I also saw this Reddit thread
I didn’t 😎
Testifying under oath as an expert may sway a case. In doing so, you are examined on what your expertise is, how it relates to the matter at hand, and why you believe it matters.
As a victim, you are not a reliable witness because the prosecution is trying to convince the jury that the facts match the charge while the defense is trying to present reasonable doubt. (If you couldn’t remember the curtain was blue, are you sure you didn’t just dream up the act?)
It’s also good to be able to establish multiple witnesses for the same event as it establishes mutual credibility. A, B, and C all established their presence and all corroborated that A was brought into the room with D. B and C heard sounds that were consistent with act X but inconsistent with defendant D’s claim of act Y.
It’s not a game of probability or trust. It’s storytelling
Or it’s children in this case.
If you were to listen to the majority of commenters on this post, we shouldn’t believe any women unless the acts were recorded and verified as to be untampered with.
Or in other words, don’t believe women of any age. 🤢
The point of most of the comments here is that you shouldn’t believe anyone on vibes alone. The problem isn’t sexism, people are pointing out that believing victims without evidence is no basis for a legal system.
Unironically, nobody believes PB.
Lumisal@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Well, the thing is, the Epstein files isn’t about women.
It’s about girls.
So even if we did believe in women more, those files should be released