Come on, work being the sole source of community is the problem here. What are we even talking about?
Study: Remote working benefits fathers while childless men miss sense of community
Submitted 1 month ago by Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
ideonek@piefed.social 1 month ago
flamingo_pinyata@sopuli.xyz 1 month ago
Yes, but it’s also the most logical place. What other activity do you dedicate so much time to? Maybe sleeping but it’s hard to build a community around that.
ideonek@piefed.social 1 month ago
According to my kids, candies are the most logical place to get most your nutritions from. Where else could you get so many calories?
If most of your time at work is spent socializing, couldn't you cut your work time and build your community elsewhere?
If most of your time at work you spent on honest hard-work working, how much community are you really building?
Cut you calories. Life doesn't happen at work.
6nk06@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
It would be logical to work less and get our own community. A lot of people work hard all their lives and die soon after retirement. That’s not logical.
Saleh@feddit.org 1 month ago
Quality over quantity.
Great places to socialize are sports-clubs, social-clubs, volunteering, activism, religious communities…
I’d much rather spend five hours a week distributed over two or three occasions with people i share interests with, than with people i share work with. Meanwhile at work i am mostly engaged in small talk, that is quite repetitive as i see the people every day and i have to guard what i can say and what i cannot say more than in other circles.
scarabic@lemmy.world 1 month ago
No one said “sole.” It’s about a sense of community between you and your coworkers, which is a very real and normal thing. It’s spelled out in the article very clearly:
losing that sense of workplace community had a greater impact on childless men
“Workplace community.”
I’m a dad working remote and I love the benefits but I ALSO miss the sense of community with my coworkers which I used to get from lunches together, sharing the train ride home, or just working side by side at our desks.
leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 1 month ago
sense of community between you and your coworkers, which is a very real and normal thing
No it fucking ain’t.
Forcing people together doesn’t create community, it creates stress, and resentment, and burnout, and migraines.
“Workplace community.”
Biggest oxymoron I’ve ever seen since military intelligence.
ALSO miss the sense of community with my coworkers which I used to get from lunches together, sharing the train ride home, or just working side by side at our desks
Oh, you’re one of those fucking extroverts.
I can’t begin to imagine the extent to which your poor coworkers must have despised you while you constantly bothered them while they tried to work, or have a quick decompressing lunch, or disconnect after a long day of work during the train ride home, the poor bastards. As if work wasn’t bad enough by itself.
ideonek@piefed.social 1 month ago
hmm, so having or not having kids have impact on your sence of workplace community during remote work?
Does it add up to you?
5in1k@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
A lack of non alcoholic third spaces is what I would like to talk about.
FriskyDingo@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Being back mandatory poker nights!!!
blattrules@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I’m a childless man and I don’t miss the sense of community one bit.
spankmonkey@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I have more time to spend with the community that isn’t tied to my income.
scarabic@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I’m a dad and I do. Our anecdotal stories have been registered!
Tehbaz@lemmy.wtf 1 month ago
Same here, much prefer the peace and quiet as well as avoiding the complication & stress of maintaining a personal relationship that may or may not last. As long as I have my dog with me I’m never lonely.
PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 1 month ago
I know this a gross oversimplification, but:
“Remote working benefit those with a reason to stay home, but doesn’t for those who don’t have a reason to stay home” seems to be the general idea of the headline.
Dave@lemmy.nz 1 month ago
This was also my experience during the main sweep of the pandemic. It was so great getting to cut the commute and be home. Something I have luckily managed to largely continue. Prior to the pandemic my kid was in daycare pretty much 7:30-5:30 so it was really nice to not have to do that, plus during our lockdown we used to go for a family walk at lunchtime.
While some of the single guys I worked with hated staying home and were straight back in the office the moment they were allowed.
Saff@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
Yeah I went 3 months without having a single face to face conversation with someone, it was pretty shit even with online gaming and discord.
Atonable8938@lemmy.zip 5 weeks ago
I think it’s funny that I had the opposite experience. My coworkers who had kids couldn’t wait to get back to the office, while the few of us youngsters who didn’t wanted nothing but to keep working remotely. Probably why those few of us left immediately when it became clear they were going to force everyone back.
Ledericas@lemm.ee 5 weeks ago
oh yea heard this question asked in reddit on multiple instance, the ones that dont stay at home tend to waste time at watercooler chat, gossip,etc, not productive work, just that interaction.
PhobosAnomaly@feddit.uk 5 weeks ago
I’m guessing you’ve got a study that backs that assertion up as well?
NABDad@lemmy.world 1 month ago
My oldest has no children and works fully remote.
When the pandemic started, his company decided to have everyone work from home. They very quickly discovered that they were just as productive, and the owner decided it made sense to dump their office space.
A group of employees decided to go on vacation together, while still working. Since they are all remote, they didn’t actually have to work from home. They got an Airbnb with good Internet, worked during the day, and saw the sites and had fun together after work.
If you’re remote and you miss that sense of community, reach out to your coworkers and ask them if they want to hang out after work. It’s possible they don’t and you’ll be disappointed. It’s also possible that they feel the same way but didn’t know they could do something about it.
Either you’ll be the hero that saved everyone from their solitary existence, or you’ll have to accept that they don’t want to hang out with you.
codexarcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 month ago
This is a good idea, but also working remote frees up time to meet new affinity groups.
Not to dump on people’s relaxation strategies, but even the most introverted person can’t survive on video games and gooning alone.
If you don’t want or like hanging with coworkers, find a local bar to hang out at and meet some folks, go to a community board game night, join a choir, attend an anime viewing night, just do something to take initiative and meet some folks that like what you like.
scytale@lemmy.zip 1 month ago
Another person already said it, but the issue is the lack of third spaces. You don’t need to physically go to an office to get a sense of community. Working remotely makes it easier to get a sense of community if there are third spaces because you’re not stuck in a building for 8 hours. If your only source of community is your workplace, then you have other problems.
oppy1984@lemm.ee 1 month ago
41 year old male, no kids, no wife or girlfriend, been work from home for 5 years now. I’ve never been happier and more productive.
I get my sense of community from my friends not my coworkers. This study is B.S.
ComradeRachel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 month ago
You know there are always outliers because research often looks at populations in general and not the exact experience of a specific person. Unless it’s a case study but that’s different.
Either way that’s a really good thing for you, the modern world makes it difficult to make and keep close to friends.
oppy1984@lemm.ee 1 month ago
True, and I was drawing on anecdotal evidence that I didn’t elaborate on in my original comment. While I know there are people who do not do well or enjoy work from home, I have yet to meet those people, all my coworkers and friend group are loving work from home.
So a more accurate statement would have been, based on my personal experience along with with coworkers and my friend circle this study is B.S.
MashedTech@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Yeah, you gotta have friends that are close by and you can get out with or they can come over. If you don’t… Sometimes it feels lonely. But to be honest, you kinda get used to it.
KumaSudosa@feddit.dk 5 weeks ago
Just because you have anecdotal evidence of the contrary doesn’t mean it can’t be true, quantitatively. I, too, am a childless man - although I do have a wife - and don’t resonate with this, but that doesn’t mean I’ll just cast aside the findings. Many, especially young, men are unhappy in their everyday, partly due to a lack of sense od community in the “modern” world.
latenightnoir@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 month ago
Oh, yes! I sure do miss that community made up of ass kissers and people who are just as miserable as I am! Or those 2-3 chill people with whom I meet for a chat weekly anyway, outside work hours because I sure as hell ain’t in the mood for socialising while I’m wasting (at least) a third of my day and life doing busiwork for someone else!
DarkCloud@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Can’t wait until we figure out that improving society for the people in it, improves society overall.
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 1 month ago
As a childless man, they will have to pry my work from home out of my cold, lots of free time having hands.
OutDoeHoe@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
As a childless woman, SAMEEEEEE. My dog is a fantastic coworker.
dzso@lemmy.world 1 month ago
They’re not distinguishing “remote work” from “working from home” which are two entirely different things. There are whole communities of remote workers who meet and work together around the world. I guarantee you that remote working men who take advantage of these kinds of environments have a better sense of community than men who are forced to go sit in a cubicle with a group of people like the cast of The Office with less sense of humor.
CptBread@lemmy.world 1 month ago
To me this highlights that many single men have problems with loneliness.
Portosian@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Remote work is a step in the right direction at least. In my case, I’m generally just too exhausted to bother going anywhere other than home and work, which definitely limits any socializing. Work culture isn’t entirely to blame of course, but it sure isn’t helping.
CptBread@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I would claim it’s only a step in the right direction for someone if they will actually start doing something social. It’s not enough that there is more opportunity to if you never actually do it…
leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 1 month ago
No we don’t. Work is work, not fucking community.
blarghly@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I like my coworkers. They’re cool. I just went to acro yoga with one, and go bouldering with another. We show up, talk shit, and get the job done - sometimes it’s a good time. Sometimes we get our asses kicked. But that builds camradrie, too.
I will say, this is blue collar stuff. When I worked as a software dev, I definitely didn’t care about spending much time with my coworkers.
echodot@feddit.uk 5 weeks ago
I used to work for a bunch of lawyers. I would happily take a fire axe to every single one of them.
They really didn’t like remote working and tried to put a stop to it and “sense of community” was their excuse as well, but it was really about control.
It would be interesting if they did this study again in an environment like that, where people aren’t really friendly with their co-workers. I imagine they would get a vastly different result.
This study may not be BS in particular, for that one case, but it is BS in general
Ibuthyr@lemmy.wtf 1 month ago
Yes I do, speak for yourself.
leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 1 month ago
Well, just from reading that I can assure you your coworkers don’t.
barsoap@lemm.ee 1 month ago
I guess it’s a poor choice of words but there’s definite value in workplace camaraderie. Don’t let your jadedness fuel the bosses’ union busting.
leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 1 month ago
Unions aren’t community.
They’re a necessary defence mechanism against capitalism.
echodot@feddit.uk 5 weeks ago
Unions haven’t got anything to do with it. Unions are about protecting you from unfair business practises, it’s not a social club, nor do they try to be.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 1 month ago
This childless man loves his peace, quiet, and alone time.
But maybe I don’t qualify as I have dogs, friends, and kickass neighbors.
solsangraal@lemmy.zip 1 month ago
i’m skeptical of any study that concludes anyone would rather deal with all the bullshit of working in the office rather than wfh
no one goes to work for the “community,” which can also be gotten literally anywhere other than work
spankmonkey@lemmy.world 1 month ago
no one goes to work for the “community,” which can also be gotten literally anywhere other than work
I can confidently say that a lot of my coworkers do go to work for a sense of community and also hang out with those same coworkers after hours. They basically get to see their community at work, and most of them don’t have a home office set up, so the office is a better setting for them.
I separate work and home life almost entirely, and love working from home, but do want to acknowledge that some people do want to be in the office and it isn’t only the toxic ones.
yetAnotherUser@discuss.tchncs.de 1 month ago
which can also be gotten literally anywhere other than work
Can it? For absolutely everyone, regardless of (mental) health? No one benefits from being monetarily pressured to interact with people even if the interaction is only surface level?
solsangraal@lemmy.zip 1 month ago
ok. the reasons someone might actually want to go to work in the office (e.g., can’t interact with people who aren’t getting paid to interact) are not the same reasons CEOs want to force you to work in the office (control; oversight; subjugation)
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 1 month ago
Well then call me the outlier, cause I’m a childless man who has been happily working remote since before covid. I’d rather be jobless than go back to office work. I have a small group of non-work friends that I enjoy spending time with, and back when I did office work the majority of my friends were not work friends
anotherinternetnomad@lemmy.world 1 month ago
I’m not going to deny that some people enjoy going to work and enjoy interacting with their coworkers, but this feels like it’s missing the forest for the trees. What about the affects commuting has on one’s civic engagement in their actual community?
“There’s a simple rule of thumb: Every ten minutes of commuting results in ten per cent fewer social connections. Commuting is connected to social isolation, which causes unhappiness.” archive.ph/…/there-and-back-again
sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 month ago
I’ve always thought that researchers should plot outcomes against commute times.
xor@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 month ago
I broadly agree, but I think there’s a bit of a “correlation is not causation” effect at play, too
I would expect people who are very career-focused would prioritise socialising less, and also be more willing to do a long commute for a job they are highly invested in. But the reduced socialising wouldn’t necessarily be caused by the commuting (not entirely, at least).
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Best thing about working from home is stepping away from my desk, popping upstairs, and tossing my little baby boy up in the air a few times while he giggles and smiles.
FourWaveforms@lemm.ee 1 month ago
I’m a childless man and FUCK that, the office isn’t my social scene. I don’t care to drive in there just to talk to the same people in person. ZERO point in doing that. We have meetings electronically and that’s more than enough.
CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 1 month ago
In office, I’m a chatty bitch. I have a habit of maybe over-socializing. For sure, my productivity goes down in the office. Oh, and people listen to me just as much WFH as they did in the office when it comes to work stuff.
At home, I can just turn on some music and focus on what I need to get done. I can work on my 20+ jira points I have every god damn sprint. Meetings (ad-hoc or planned) already cause delays for me and I’m already working to much (the highest so far, has been a 16-hour day).
I don’t miss the ‘sense of community’ because there isn’t one. Plus, most of my co-workers live in different states, and many in different countries. There’s no in-person collaboration even if I’m in the office. It’s still everything done over chat/video call.
My company, like so many others, went back on everything they said about WFH. They used to say how great it was because they could find talent from anywhere instead of being arbitrarily constrained by location. Like, obviously, the best talent doesn’t just happen to live next to you. Then it moved to hybrid, for those all important in-person, face-to-face collabs and synergy and all the other bullshit LinkedIn BS you can spew. And now, they’re doing RTO full on and even shaming those who work from home or would want to. Full-on bully tactics in meetings too. Even started shaming the upper mgmt, because their excuse was “well, other companies are doing it” so I hit back with the “if other companies were committing fraud, would we?” a spin on the “well if everyone else was jumping off a bridge, would you” I grew up hearing all the time. I actually brought that up in a corporate meeting, they never responded, so I’m taking that as a yes… yes they would and will, so long as they figure they can get away with it (or the penalties don’t outweigh the profits).
And then I find out Tim Walz (Minnesota Governor) is also for RTO… so I emailed his office, letting him know just how utterly disappointed in him I was, and to not expect my vote ever again.
Sorry, I’ll get off my soapbox. I’m just truly passionate about this. WFH, I’m far less miserable on a day-to-day basis. Working in the office, I was in multiple car accidents going to and from work (none of which I caused). I’ve been in exactly 0 since WFH. No longer spending 1-2 hours a day just traveling, so I can work remotely, in an office. If I ever win the lotto, I’ll be rich enough I could run for president and one of my pillars would be pushing businesses to utilize WFH if the position can do that. Fewer cars on roads, means less congestion for those who have to be onsite. There should be a noticeable decrease in vehicle-related accidents and fatalities.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 1 month ago
Being childfree is its own reward.
haych@feddit.uk 5 weeks ago
childless men miss sense of community
Myself and everyone I know works remote. We’re all childless/childfree and not a single one of us miss any community, we all feel there are zero downsides to it. This just comes across like propaganda to stop people working remote and return to office.
RedAggroBest@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
Itt: cognitive disonannce.
The study isn’t bs. Lemmy users just won’t accept that they don’t even come close to representing the average individual.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 1 month ago
I’m childless and all I can say is fuck community.
FelixCress@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Stop the fuck with “sense of community” and other crap.
jpreston2005@lemmy.world 5 weeks ago
The ability to work from home has given me innumerable benefits, but I must admit that as a very introverted guy who’s been going through some shit, and who’s go-to move during times of anxiety and depression is to distance themselves from everyone… yeah, sometimes I do miss my coworkers. A lot of them are pretty great people. Doesn’t mean I’d rather spend 3 hours a day sitting in traffic to see them, just means I low-key miss someone to bitch with.
suswrkr@discuss.tchncs.de 1 month ago
what is this study? why does the article not link to it and the data? what is the sample size, located where? waste of time post, downvoted.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Nah there’s no propaganda that will get people to think working in the office every day is in any way better to having freedom again
ThatKomputerKat@lemmy.world 1 month ago
As a childless man, fuck no I don’t.
pdqcp@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 month ago
They miss the sense of community because we no longer have 3rd places to hang out. For those unaware:
The Great Places Erased by Suburbia (the Third Place)
yewtu.be/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg
youtu.be/VvdQ381K5xg
RiceMunk@sopuli.xyz 1 month ago
Childless man here, I work mostly remotely.
I don’t miss any sense of community.
dotslashme@infosec.pub 1 month ago
Same, but I do have my own community away from work and have always prioritized my friends over co-workers.
fmstrat@lemmy.nowsci.com 1 month ago
Let’s fix this headline:
Remote work benefits all in different ways.
anzo@programming.dev 1 month ago
Oh c’mon the headline is clear. Get pregante XOR go home!
Pirate@feddit.org 1 month ago
What community? Getting whipped along with your work colleagues? I swear these studies are totally sponsored by some business interests.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 1 month ago
Agreed. This article sounds like the kind of BS corporate media’s trying to parrot to gaslight us into giving up WFH.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 1 month ago
Same. What an asanine thing to assert from the article.
const_void@lemmy.ml 1 month ago
Same. I’ve always hated office culture and don’t miss it one bit.
chM5tZ8zMp@lemmy.sdf.org 1 month ago
Same. I came here to make the exact same comment.