Lol my old boss hated remote work because he had to spend time with his family.
“I gotta get to the office mates!”
Study: Remote working benefits fathers while childless men miss sense of community
Submitted 9 months ago by Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
Spacehooks@reddthat.com 9 months ago
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Best thing about working from home is stepping away from my desk, popping upstairs, and tossing my little baby boy up in the air a few times while he giggles and smiles.
ZeffSyde@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This was me until I realized I didn’t have a child and that I lived in the first floor.
Where was I going? What giggled as I tossed it into the air?
haych@feddit.uk 9 months ago
childless men miss sense of community
Myself and everyone I know works remote. We’re all childless/childfree and not a single one of us miss any community, we all feel there are zero downsides to it. This just comes across like propaganda to stop people working remote and return to office.
murvel@feddit.nu 9 months ago
Well, see, that’s because you and your friends experience is not a fucking study…
Auth@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I have friends and live with friends and I still feel lonely when working remotely. I like hybrid the most because sometimes i need to just go into work and talk about the things im working on with people who actually understand (not work related talks just for fun)
Breezy@lemmy.world 9 months ago
So you like to go into work in order to waste time talking talking about non work related things? Make sense why you should stay remote.
lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
I would love to work remote, but the nature of my job kinda conflicts with that (field service engineer).
That said, I actually like my coworkers quite a lot (there’s only 4 of us). This is the first place I’ve worked where I genuinely feel like we all care about each other’s well-being. I was in the hospital for a few days back in March and they texted periodically just to check how I was doing. Wishing each other happy father’s day/birthday/anniversary/etc, congratulating baby births, invited to kids’ birthday parties, and other things of that nature. Not just surface-level stuff, either. I would hang out with these guys.
jpreston2005@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The ability to work from home has given me innumerable benefits, but I must admit that as a very introverted guy who’s been going through some shit, and who’s go-to move during times of anxiety and depression is to distance themselves from everyone… yeah, sometimes I do miss my coworkers. A lot of them are pretty great people. Doesn’t mean I’d rather spend 3 hours a day sitting in traffic to see them, just means I low-key miss someone to bitch with.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 9 months ago
In theory, we have the Third Space for that kind of socializing. Parks, plazas, union halls, club spaces and dance halls, churches, community centers, libraries…
In practice, they’ve been gradually privatized and monetized until everything is The Mall. If you don’t have $10 to spend for the hour, there’s nowhere you can legally so much as sit down. Hard to socialize on these terms.
Auth@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I want to kick your city in the nuts. How could you gut parks and libraries.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s something I’ve noticed in general.
I had an amazing boss who was single and lived alone, and really love her staff. We had unecessarily long staff meetings every week. When I started I was annoyed by them until someone pointed out that the time we spent with everyone getting distracted and going off-topic and padding out the meeting while we ate our lunch around the conference room table was, for her, the weekly family meal.
I still don’t like unnecessary meetings, but it gave me a different perspective on why some people like them.
Makhno@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I work in a bar, and I love seeing most of my coworkers. I obviously can’t speak on the WFH aspect, as it’d be impossible for me, but enjoying the company of the people you work with isn’t a foreign concept, especially in the service industry
echodot@feddit.uk 9 months ago
I actually don’t like my coworkers very much I definitely wouldn’t hang out with them so not having to be near them all day is a benefit.
It’s not even that they are bad people, it’s just that they are people who I wouldn’t choose to hang out with.
RedAggroBest@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Itt: cognitive disonannce.
The study isn’t bs. Lemmy users just won’t accept that they don’t even come close to representing the average individual.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The study isn’t bs.
There’s a lot of “I’m childless and proud and how dare you suggest living in isolation and screaming at my computer screen all day has had any negative impact on my mental health. You’re just trying to trick me into breeding! A thing I became intensely averse to just recently, after spending 16 hours a day on incel forums full of reactionary influencers.”
So much of the knee-jerk ingrained responses online are indicative of people who have utterly lost the ability to think for themselves and are only capable of lashing out in defense of their latest favorite social media trend.
echodot@feddit.uk 9 months ago
Or to If we use less adversarial language, this study is far from universal and its findings should be applied with the understanding that not all people will not match those who were in the study. As with most things, far more research is needed to get a thorough understanding.
RedAggroBest@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Nah, I’d say this fits solidly in the category of “heaps of research indicating that single men suffer more in situations that promote isolation”. Adversarial language or not, the average Lemmy users is so far in their own social phobia that they don’t register that most humans, being social animals, thrive with MORE interaction and not less.
oppy1984@lemm.ee 9 months ago
41 year old male, no kids, no wife or girlfriend, been work from home for 5 years now. I’ve never been happier and more productive.
I get my sense of community from my friends not my coworkers. This study is B.S.
KumaSudosa@feddit.dk 9 months ago
Just because you have anecdotal evidence of the contrary doesn’t mean it can’t be true, quantitatively. I, too, am a childless man - although I do have a wife - and don’t resonate with this, but that doesn’t mean I’ll just cast aside the findings. Many, especially young, men are unhappy in their everyday, partly due to a lack of sense od community in the “modern” world.
MashedTech@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yeah, you gotta have friends that are close by and you can get out with or they can come over. If you don’t… Sometimes it feels lonely. But to be honest, you kinda get used to it.
ComradeRachel@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
You know there are always outliers because research often looks at populations in general and not the exact experience of a specific person. Unless it’s a case study but that’s different.
Either way that’s a really good thing for you, the modern world makes it difficult to make and keep close to friends.
oppy1984@lemm.ee 9 months ago
True, and I was drawing on anecdotal evidence that I didn’t elaborate on in my original comment. While I know there are people who do not do well or enjoy work from home, I have yet to meet those people, all my coworkers and friend group are loving work from home.
So a more accurate statement would have been, based on my personal experience along with with coworkers and my friend circle this study is B.S.
EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com 9 months ago
Being childfree is its own reward.
ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Why can’t your workers be your workers, your family be your family, your friends be your friends?
ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
I’ve been working from home with my older family members since COVID started and I’ve been pretty happy since it’s always been my goal. I’ve also had a knee injury for the past 3 weeks, and it’s potentially prevented me from making it worse, and allowed me to continue working. I’ve almost been working remotely for the majority of my career, which is kind of cool to think about. I like working from home, but I understand not everyone likes it.
last_philosopher@lemmy.world 9 months ago
For me WFH has helped me have a community. The office was never a real community, and the fact that we all worked together got in the way of being actual friends. Instead with the added time from WFH I was able to prioritize my social life and go to more events and meet people I actually have stuff in common with.
Of course probably not everyone prioritized that. The office might be good for some people, but for people like me who don’t necessarily socialize at the office very easily WFH is much better for community.
leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 9 months ago
No we don’t. Work is work, not fucking community.
blarghly@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I like my coworkers. They’re cool. I just went to acro yoga with one, and go bouldering with another. We show up, talk shit, and get the job done - sometimes it’s a good time. Sometimes we get our asses kicked. But that builds camradrie, too.
I will say, this is blue collar stuff. When I worked as a software dev, I definitely didn’t care about spending much time with my coworkers.
echodot@feddit.uk 9 months ago
I used to work for a bunch of lawyers. I would happily take a fire axe to every single one of them.
They really didn’t like remote working and tried to put a stop to it and “sense of community” was their excuse as well, but it was really about control.
It would be interesting if they did this study again in an environment like that, where people aren’t really friendly with their co-workers. I imagine they would get a vastly different result.
This study may not be BS in particular, for that one case, but it is BS in general
barsoap@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I guess it’s a poor choice of words but there’s definite value in workplace camaraderie. Don’t let your jadedness fuel the bosses’ union busting.
echodot@feddit.uk 9 months ago
Unions haven’t got anything to do with it. Unions are about protecting you from unfair business practises, it’s not a social club, nor do they try to be.
leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 9 months ago
Unions aren’t community.
They’re a necessary defence mechanism against capitalism.
Ibuthyr@lemmy.wtf 9 months ago
Yes I do, speak for yourself.
leftzero@lemmynsfw.com 9 months ago
Well, just from reading that I can assure you your coworkers don’t.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Mmmm I am a childless man, and I live by myself, and I am 100% cool with that, and feel fine. But to be fair, I’ve got a pretty good circle of friends, and a really strong core friend group.
BradleyUffner@lemmy.world 9 months ago
As a childless man, they will have to pry my work from home out of my cold, lots of free time having hands.
OutDoeHoe@lemmy.world 9 months ago
As a childless woman, SAMEEEEEE. My dog is a fantastic coworker.
FourWaveforms@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I’m a childless man and FUCK that, the office isn’t my social scene. I don’t care to drive in there just to talk to the same people in person. ZERO point in doing that. We have meetings electronically and that’s more than enough.
npcknapsack@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
You mean, you, a presumably young man, don’t come to the office to chat with your 50 year old office mom, or your CEOs and managers, or your coworkers whose interests only overlap yours so far as employment opportunities? How bizarre!
fyzzlefry@retrolemmy.com 9 months ago
They’re all jerks anyways
ThatKomputerKat@lemmy.world 9 months ago
As a childless man, fuck no I don’t.
LilB0kChoy@midwest.social 9 months ago
Truth.
cholesterol@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Would they equally write ‘mothers’ vs. ‘childless women’ in another article about remote work, I wonder.
npcknapsack@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
It’d be mothers and single women, most likely.
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Fathers versus childless men, rather than husbands vs unmarried men. Telling.
squaresinger@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s a wildly different thing, though.
Married vs. unmarried means you have a companion, but you still got the same demands on your life as before. You might have to arrange schedules, but that’s about it. Your day has just as much free time as before, you can stay out just as long as before and your social opportunities aren’t restricted due to the fact that you are married.
In fact, there’s no difference at all between married vs. unmarried and in a relationship vs single. Getting married changes nothing in that regard.
Having kids, on the other hand, changes everything. Now your social activities are limited by your responsibilities towards the child(ren). Can’t stay out until 2am if you know the kids will be awake at 7am and will wake you up 3 times in between. Can’t take a random day off and do a day trip if the kid needs to be at school that day. Can’t visit friends after work together with your partner if the kid needs to be in bed at 7pm. It’s a massive limiter on social opportunities.
At the same time, spending time with the kids is pretty great in its own right, and that’s what the article touches upon. If you are married but don’t have kids, you might get your fill with your partner after work. If you have 5h or so every day with your partner from getting back from work until going to bed, that’s a ton of quality time.
But if you return from work at 5pm and the kids go to bed at 7pm, then pretty much all the interaction you get is eating and preparing the kids for bed.
As a father, working from home means I can see my kids grow up, especially in their earlier years. It means I was there when they took their first steps. I’m there when they start talking. I can actually spend time with them, get close to them, be part of them growing up. I’m there when they cry, when they say the funniest stuff. You know, be with them when it matters.
With my wife, on the other hand, as much as I love her, I’m not going to miss a ton of really important things if I’m not around her 24/7. On the contrary, she’s happy for any bit of actual alone time she gets.
Evotech@lemmy.world 9 months ago
What does it tell
lemmyknow@lemmy.today 9 months ago
It’s clearly telling that the study is looking at men with regards to their possession of a child or an infant of some kind, rather than regarding wether they take part in some sort of commited marital relationship or partnership
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This childless man loves his peace, quiet, and alone time.
But maybe I don’t qualify as I have dogs, friends, and kickass neighbors.
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 9 months ago
Well then call me the outlier, cause I’m a childless man who has been happily working remote since before covid. I’d rather be jobless than go back to office work. I have a small group of non-work friends that I enjoy spending time with, and back when I did office work the majority of my friends were not work friends
altkey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
As a childless asocial workaholic with some degree of toxicity that LinkedIn bastard probably dream of, my performance heavily depended on the importance of the task. WFH let me be more passionate about some projects and papers that I used all benefits of cutting commute, was way less distracted and motivated. But bullshit paperwork, letters, chats and reports lagged even further behind than they did in the office, right up to the deadline. Sometimes because I did the work itself instead and no one looked over my shoulder.
For me RTOing into a nearly-empty building in the off-season when most take vacations was the most dumb idea, and since it was a typical rule-for-thee, I had almost none supervison, was arriving late, leaving early and put a shit ton of hours into various MMOs. The complete opposite to what I did in a brief moments of quarantine. Look, jerks, you paid me to level my chars, that’s what you wanted?
I think like in a trust-based environment clocking in is unnecessary and various bosses over time did get it, I payed back by reporting stuff myself so they were sure I’m on it at any given time. Like we are actually a team of some sort, they do their stuff, I do mine, we pass things to each other etc. The others were completely disconnected from empoyees and to compensate their inability to trust, got high on controlling shit, were sending down teamworking events, talking about being a family or other sectarian career manager bullshit, relied on and encouraged snitching on each other. These were the positions I nailed down to me clocking out and stop giving a fuck, before eventually leaving.
And for coworkers: they either do their work, or leave it to others, and I rarely GAF about other characteristics. The high stress environment of labor is not where I prefer to socialise, nor I’m in the mood to. I crave work-related communications that makes all objectives clear and obvious, work-related stories I can learn from, you know, the stuff I came here for, and not a social club with gossips, drama and all that. If I’m given 2hrs+ from not riding to your building, I can have two socializations and a half if I want to. The exhaustion it causes not only helps but prevents me from going out with friends, and I’m double pissed that some bosses make an act like that’s better for their workers while not giving them any agency and doing it solely for themselves.
Rant: over.
CptBread@lemmy.world 9 months ago
To me this highlights that many single men have problems with loneliness.
Portosian@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Remote work is a step in the right direction at least. In my case, I’m generally just too exhausted to bother going anywhere other than home and work, which definitely limits any socializing. Work culture isn’t entirely to blame of course, but it sure isn’t helping.
CptBread@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I would claim it’s only a step in the right direction for someone if they will actually start doing something social. It’s not enough that there is more opportunity to if you never actually do it…
suswrkr@discuss.tchncs.de 9 months ago
what is this study? why does the article not link to it and the data? what is the sample size, located where? waste of time post, downvoted.
Iceblade02@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s a finnish gov:t newspaper reporting on a gov:t study.
Here’s the link:
infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 9 months ago
It’s propaganda.
blattrules@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’m a childless man and I don’t miss the sense of community one bit.
scarabic@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’m a dad and I do. Our anecdotal stories have been registered!
Tehbaz@lemmy.wtf 9 months ago
Same here, much prefer the peace and quiet as well as avoiding the complication & stress of maintaining a personal relationship that may or may not last. As long as I have my dog with me I’m never lonely.
spankmonkey@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I have more time to spend with the community that isn’t tied to my income.
SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Nah there’s no propaganda that will get people to think working in the office every day is in any way better to having freedom again
FundMECFSResearch@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
For a lot of disabled people it’s remote work or starve to death.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Take the same approach as home schooling. Community comes from engaging in other activities.