This kind of problem falls under “communicating badly and acting smug when misunderstood”. Use parenthesis and the problem goes away.
A fake Facebook event disguised as a math problem has been one of its top posts for 6 months
Submitted 3 weeks ago by Obelix@feddit.org to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 3 weeks ago
themagzuz@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
on that note, can we please have parentheses in language. i keep making ambiguous sentences
Gsus4@mander.xyz 3 weeks ago
My language teachers always told me it was bad form to use too much or even to nest parenthesis…
Then I found lisp…
Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
People try and use commas for this sort of clarification and are eviscerate for it.
With these sort of math problems, the rules are taught early and then all subsequent math is written in an unambiguous form.
Language has the oddity of going the other way around where the rules get more complex as a display for advanced skilled.
entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org 3 weeks ago
We have them in written language, though?
AbidanYre@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Isn’t that basically what commas are for?
KingPorkChop@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Why (I don’t see) not
gamer@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
This is why grammar is important, and “grammar nazis” are the only good kind of nazis.
barsoap@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
nuko147@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Boomers and Xgens need to prove, that they remember basic school math in FB lmao.
thedruid@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Gen xers? Don’t like them. They’re not noticing you right now.
Very independent, and cranky generation.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
I’m more worried about the gratuitous comma and what it means for the state of education.
nuko147@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Nah, people can write things while being a bit drunk, you know. I’m speaking for a friend, not me, ofc.
systemglitch@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Who, the people who never had calculators in their pockets? No worries, we can do math better than you.
wondrous_strange@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Knowing basic arithmetic does not mean you know Math, and the fact you so hung up about this trivial aspect says a lot about you. Additionally, you express yourself like a boomer.
Dreaming_Novaling@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
I was good at math and it was one of my favorite core subjects in school, so I know I’m a weirdo but… I never understood how people couldn’t understand basic PEMDAS/BEDMAS/Whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it.
Obviously these problems are shitty engagement bait because they don’t use parentheses, but still, seeing people fuck up the fact that Multiplication AND Division occur at the same time, and then the next step is Addition AND Subtraction just stupefies me.
Like, did you sleep through 4 years of elementary school to miss that fact??? Even in middle school pre-algebra teachers still did PEMDAS refreshers. I get that once I get out of college I’m probably gonna forget half the pre-calc shit I learned because I won’t need it, and I’m not being drilled on it everyday like people in school are, but PEMDAS is a fundamental and basic daily life skill that everyone should know…
I really wish we gave a fuck about US education.
AlphaOmega@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I was bad at math, but I still managed to get through precal and still remember PEMDAS
kameecoding@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
For me it’s the arguments when there is a parentheses but no operator in these baits e.g. 2(4 - 2)
If you don’t know operator orders I have given up long ago, but I have seen a few lengthy discussions about this
Mistic@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Oh yeah, that’s a fun one.
Where I live, this would be considered juxtaposition, at least by uni professors and scientific community, so 2(4-2) isn’t the same as 2×(4-2).
This way, equations such as 15/2(4-2) end up with a definite solution.
Usually, however, it is obvious even without assuming juxtaposition because you can look at previous operations. Not to mention that it’s most common with variables (Eg. “2x/3y”).
So,
15/2(4-2) = 3.75
While
15/2×(4-2) = 15
barsoap@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
I never understood how people couldn’t understand basic PEMDAS/BEDMAS/Whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it.
There’s no “whatever-the-fuck-your-country-calls-it”, the US is the only country using it, and only up to high school. At least I’m not seeing any papers coming out of the US relying on it so at some point they’re dropping it and do what everyone else is doing: Write equations such that you don’t need a left-to-right rule to disambiguate things. Also, using multiplication by juxtaposition (2a + 4a^2^).
superminerJG@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
question: is there something more than the expression evaluating to 11?
DancingBear@midwest.social 3 weeks ago
[deleted]0xD@infosec.pub 3 weeks ago
How do you get 5?
Multiplication and division go first, so it’s 9-1+3=11
Clent@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Anyone on Facebook that attempts to answer this or engage within its comments has already failed the test.
lastunusedusername2@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Anyone on Facebook
that attempts to answer this or engage within its commentshas already failed the test.
aMockTie@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Hey, this is Presh Talwalkar.
discussion of a brief history of this viral math problem, followed by explanations of common incorrect answers. Finally followed by brief discussion on the order of operations, concluding in a final example that ultimately equals 11
And that’s the answer. Thank you so much for making us one of the best communities on YouTube, where we solve the world’s problems, one video at at time.
roofuskit@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
This is the kind of post designed to invoke a reaction. Facebook’s and pretty much every other algorithm driven social media is designed to promote posts that have high interaction. So a post that invokes lots of negative reactions gets lots of promotion. Hence the downfall of modern society.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago
Arguing about maths is like dancing to architecture.
captainlezbian@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Hey, some architecture is asking for it like Stonehenge
billwashere@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
So order of operations is hard?
HereIAm@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The issue normally with these “trick” questions is the ambiguous nature of that division sign (not so much a problem here) or people not knowing to just go left to right when all operators are of the same priority. A common mistake is to think division is prioritised above multiplication, when it actually has the same priority. Someone should have included some parenthesis in PEDMAS aka. PE(DM)(AS) 😄
vithigar@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
The same priority operations can be done in any order without affecting the result, that’s why they can be same priority and don’t need an explicit order.
6 × 4 ÷ 2 × 3 ÷ 9 evaluates the same regardless of order. Can you provide a counter example?
AnotherPenguin@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
Another common issue is thinking “parentheses go first” and then beginning by solving the operation beside them (mostly multiplication). The point being that what’s inside the parentheses goes first, not what’s beside them.
Zenith@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Yeah and I’m tired of pretending it’s not!
Gsus4@mander.xyz 3 weeks ago
Next we’re going to have an epic debate on whether work done by the system is positive or negative and we’re all going to feel really smart and passionate about it. Like one of those Science vs Religion debate clubs.
queermunist@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
So if it’s not really an event
And it’s not really a math problem
What the hell is it??
catloaf@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Engagement bait
Zwuzelmaus@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
Entertainment.
The only thing that will remain on yt anyway after AI has taken over the content generation and we can trust no “creator” anymore.
maniacalmanicmania@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago
What’s the scam?
cabbage@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
Not strictly a scam, but there's a little money to be made creating viral content on Facebook. They receive a tiny portion of the ad revenue from Facebook when they generate engagement.
It's just Facebook sucking really.
maniacalmanicmania@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago
Thanks 🙏
drool@lemmy.catsp.it 3 weeks ago
11
Lembot_0002@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Yes, we can count. I suppose the question was “So what? What is scummy in some viral post?”
frezik@midwest.social 3 weeks ago
Every one of these only makes me say “wouldn’t it be great if we did everything with RPN”?
Almacca@aussie.zone 3 weeks ago
Ah, yes. It’s only for genius.
CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
This thread shows that a whole bunch of people need to start taking online education courses. Getting back your algebra skills, some science perhaps, communication, history, etc.
I don’t know where you can get a proper education for that after grade school, but I see Brilliant.org advertised a lot.
manuc66@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
÷ could be a minus sign see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Division_sign?wprov=sfla1
Venator@lemmy.nz 3 weeks ago
Except that it has English text above it…
jordanlund@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I’m sure we’re all geniuses here, but just in case…
Please excuse my dear aunt Sally.
Parenthesis, exponents, multiplication, division, addition, subtraction.
Why? Becauseca bunch of dead Greeks say so!
3x3-3÷3+3
(3x3)-(3÷3)+3
9-1+3
8+3
11
czardestructo@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I guess remembering grade school order of operation means you’re a guinus now? Bar has gotten pretty low…
AnotherPenguin@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
And it will go even lower as people start relying mpre on AI…
SARGE@startrek.website 3 weeks ago
That’s the point.
Set the bar low, but just high enough that tons of people still trip over it.
Sit back and enjoy the comment wars.
The people who are confident but wrong are too proud to admit they were wrong even if they realize it, and comment angrily.
The people who are right and know why, comment for corrections and some to show off how S-M-R-T they are.
The people who are wrong but willing to accept that just have their realization and probably don’t think about it again. So do the people who don’t know and/or care.
But those first two groups will keep the post going in both shares and comments, because “look at all these wrong people”
It’s all designed to boost engagement.
rigatti@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
G U I N U S.
I know it’s probably a typo, but I’m enjoying it.
vext01@lemmy.sdf.org 3 weeks ago
For the programmers: operator precedence.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Not a genius. But if subtraction is last, why isn’t it 9-4?
aliceblossom@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Because its not really “1 plus 3”, its negative 1 plus 3 which is two. I know it seems a little weird but the minus sign is " tied" to the thing following it.
cecilkorik@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
should actually be
Addition and subtraction are given the same priority, and are done in the same step, from left to right.
It’s not a great system of notation, it could be made far clearer (and parenthesis allow you to make it as clear as you like), but it’s essentially the universal standard now and it’s what we’re stuck with.
fluxion@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Addition/subtraction work out the dame regardless of how you order the operations. If you do subtraction last you have:
9-1+3
and you are adding 3 to the result of (9-1). Since you are trying to perform it before the (9-1) operation is carried out, you can add 3 to the 9:
12-1 = 11
or you can add three to the -1 and get:
9+2 = 11
You only end up with 9-4 if you were subtracting 3 rather than adding three. It all becomes more obvious if you read the original as:
9 + (-1) + 3
Geodad@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
It’s multiplication or division from left to right followed by addition or subtraction, also from left to right.
That’s where a lot of people fuck up.
Mistic@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The “why” goes a little further than that.
In actuality, it’s because of fundamental properties of operations
a + b = b + a
a×b = b×a
(a + b) + c = a + (b + c)
(a×b)×c = a×(b×c)
a + 0 = a
a×1 = a
If you know that, then PEMDAS and such are useless because they’re derived from those properties but do not fully encompass them.
barsoap@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
The Greeks certainly didn’t come up with PEMDAS. US teachers too lazy to teach kids actual maths did. And that’s before taking into account that the Greeks didn’t come up with Algebra.
dohpaz42@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
What’s lazy about learning PEMDAS? And what’s the non-lazy/superior way?
pulsewidth@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
jordanlund@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Multiplication and Division, and Addition and Subtraction are executed at the same level and done in left to right order.