In Canada we were told that putting execs in jail would “hurt jobs” and we had to pass a law that said they just get a fine instead.
The execs in question were caught selling hookers to Qaddafi’s son.
German court sends Volkswagen execs to prison over Dieselgate scandal
Submitted 5 days ago by Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.occrp.org/en/news/former-vw-managers-sentenced-over-diesel-fraud
Comments
yucandu@lemmy.world 5 days ago
SpiceDealer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 days ago
Do you have any more info on that particular story? Research purposes.
pticrix@lemmy.ca 5 days ago
Search for SNC-Lavalin + Saadi Gadhafi, you’ll get a lot of hits, for many different things. SNC-Lavalin was such a corrupt firm. Still are, most likely, though they changed name to AtkinsRéalis.
5paceThunder@lemmy.ca 5 days ago
Before this, I afraid Justin Trudeau was privileged elite, born with a silver spoon in his mouth.
After what he did to Jody Wilson-Raybould, I knew Justin Trudeau was a out of touch tone deaf, nepo baby. Truly he was never able to relate to us Canadian “normies”.
slaacaa@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Before anyone becomes to happy: the post’s title is inaccurate, the two people sent to jail are only middle managers:
colourlessidea@sopuli.xyz 4 days ago
What’s Volkswagen’s org structure like? I wouldn’t normally expect a department head to be middle management.
paranoia@feddit.dk 4 days ago
I mean the diesel engine department would probably be quite big for a company like Volkswagen. Each engine type has a team of engineers and a manager.
Enfors@lemm.ee 4 days ago
I… I thought a middle manager is any manager who’s not the very lowest manager, and not the CEO? As in, any manager who has managers above and below them?
RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Think of them more like division heads. Not quite a regular middle manager, but not C-suite.
8000gnat@reddthat.com 4 days ago
deleted my happy post bc of this
wulrus@lemmy.world 4 days ago
One insanity in the following years was how they thought people still wanted their next generation diesel.
I’ve been working for them in the 2010s with the department to organise the staff car fleet. We ordered many electric vehicles years ahead from production and planned it all around electric vehicles: Charging stations, operating distance, some hybrids for long distance, software to calculate trips etc.
Then a few months before we needed them, they said: We overproduced on the latest diesel generation and can’t keep up with the demand for electric vehicles, so we have to sell the ones you ordered. You can either go with a Tesla (for official Volkswagen business trips!) or have the diesel for free.
It felt like there was a hysteria: Decision makers got it in their heads that the “hype” for electric vehicles was ideology-driven and not something people with buying power actually wanted today or in the near future. Bit like the republican administration thinking that “woke” is our main problem. Meanwhile, huge research and development departments did come up with the electric vehicles they sell today (and fully working hydrogen prototypes you won’t see in a store, just to be safe) and must have been quite frustrated that so few were produced.
Siresly@lemm.ee 3 days ago
This sounds like actual consequences and accountability for the rich exploitative asshole executives actually responsible? Did I forget to wake up in the morning?
anonymous1979@lemmy.ca 5 days ago
This! Finally! This will make other execs scratch themselves behind the ears and consider their life choices. Fines for the company they work for won’t, as these same execs just budget these fines into the crimes they’re planning to commit.
Fuck these frauds, hope they stay in for years.
DrunkEngineer@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Despite what the headline says, no execs went to jail. The two who were punished with jail terms were middle management.
Martin Winterkorn, the CEO, will probably avoid any serious consequences.
Katana314@lemmy.world 4 days ago
I only have cursory knowledge of this incident, but: It’s possible that was the right outcome. A lot of middle managers do some heinous shit, and then report only positive news to upper management with a “Don’t worry about it” attitude.
We all know there’s also evil CEOs in the world as well, but maybe the investigation found this wasn’t one of them. 'Course, maybe they were just better at keeping plausible deniability.
theotherbelow@lemmynsfw.com 5 days ago
Neat! Punishing conspiracy and engineered lying is a good thing!
FireWire400@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Good. Finally they’re facing some actual consequences for their actions.
gian@lemmy.grys.it 4 days ago
If only also the politicians that decided what the limits should be without any consideration for the real world would face the consequences…
Not that the VW guys did the right thing, but what other option they had ? Close down and go home ?
mojofrododojo@lemmy.world 4 days ago
I disagree. VW could have crashed their diesel production in favor of hybrids and EVs. They’re playing late to the game catch up now and may not survive at all. Putting off something you know is coming - the end of diesel vehicle prevalence - through deception YOU KNOW WILL RESULT IN MILLIONS OF VEHICLES CONTRIBUTING WORSE EMISSIONS BUT BEING REGARDED AS BETTER - that’s fucking heinous and criminal.
Oh maybe you have an extra biosphere we can slap on to the one being wrecked by CO2? No?
Anyone who knew the truth is complicit in that destruction and we’re only beginning to quantify the harm.
Honytawk@feddit.nl 4 days ago
The real world consequences of keeping fossil fuel cars is much higher than banning all of them.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 5 days ago
Was this really that hard? If money can buy justice then there is no justice.
minibyte@sh.itjust.works 4 days ago
Checking in from the US: Now you’re getting it.
ssfckdt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 days ago
US Republicans be like “ANTI-BUSINESS! Enjoying communism?”
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 5 days ago
The dieselgate scandal is why I am so disappointed when I heard that Volkswagen outsold Tesla in Europe for the number one spot since the start of the year. I have been hoping it would a less scrupulous company (and non-Chinese EV manufacturer) that took the number one spot for European EV cars sold.
unskilled5117@feddit.org 5 days ago
Most people don’t know that it wasn’t just VW.
Automakers who have been caught using a defeat device within a diesel vehicle, in a similar manner to Volkswagen include: Jeep and Ram under FCA[391] (now a part of Stellantis), Opel[392] (when under GM), and Mercedes-Benz.[393]
While not all using defeat devices, diesel vehicles built by a wide range of carmakers, including Volvo, Renault, Mercedes, Jeep, Hyundai, Citroen, BMW, Mazda, Fiat, Ford and Peugeot[48][49] had independent tests carried out by ADAC that proved that, under normal driving conditions, many diesel vehicles exceeded legal European emission limits for nitrogen oxide (NOx), some by more than 10 times, and one by 14 times.[49]
Beyond exclusively diesel or passenger vehicles, automakers such as: Hino[414] (subsidiary of Toyota), Hyundai and Kia,[415] Nissan,[416] Mazda, Yamaha Motors, Suzuki,[417] Subaru,[418] and others have been proven to be falsifying fuel economy or emissions on non-diesel powered and/or commercial vehicles.
xzot746@sh.itjust.works 5 days ago
Volkswagen was definitely had the loudest outrage but as you mention, anyone making a diesel was doing the same thing.
And to your point about morals, yeah most corporations have no idea what morals are, and some might say that’s their right as a company to just focus on money, damn everyone and everything else, your health, the environment not if it interferes with my corporations profit margin.
Social contract what’s that about.
qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 5 days ago
I think you mean more scrupulous, not less.
TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 5 days ago
You are right. I just corrected my comment.
endeavor@sopuli.xyz 4 days ago
Even without diselgate vw group cars are just poorly engineered rebadges.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 4 days ago
If it makes you feel any better, all brands had illegally high emissions. People only tie it to VW so much because they were the first to be tested, and they owned up to it, meaning media could call them out on it without fear of libel.
VW wasn’t even close to the worst offender.
raef@lemmy.world 4 days ago
They only owned up after lying and obfuscating for years. California said they work with manufacturers when they are out of compliance, but brought their lawsuit because VW wouldn’t cooperate
spankmonkey@lemmy.world 5 days ago
This is the way.
Libra@lemmy.ml 5 days ago
HK65@sopuli.xyz 5 days ago
I would love to see counterarguments to this instead of just downvotes
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Anyone have a link without the anti GDRP cookie trackers?
utopiah@lemmy.world 4 days ago
content itself lemmy.world/post/30292632/17298348
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Thanks!
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 days ago
I’m getting a paywall or adblock block or something. Anyone have a less problematic link to the article?
drasglaf@sh.itjust.works 4 days ago
Here you go:
Four former Volkswagen managers have been convicted of fraud for their roles in the so-called Dieselgate scandal, which erupted when U.S. regulators discovered that the company had installed software to cheat emissions tests on millions of VW, Audi, and Porsche vehicles worldwide.
The court sent the former head of diesel engine development behind bars for four years and six months, and the former head of powertrain electronics to two years and seven months. Two others — Volkswagen’s former development director and a former department head — received suspended sentences, according to Der Spiegel and Deutsche Welle reports from the Braunschweig courtroom.
The verdict follows nearly four years of proceedings and adds to the mounting legal troubles for Volkswagen. Prosecutors had asked for prison terms of two to four years, while the defense argued the men were scapegoats. Appeals remain possible.
After being caught cheating in 2015, the company admitted to installing software in its diesel engines that activated emissions controls only during laboratory testing, allowing the vehicles to meet U.S. standards while in real-world driving, the vehicles emitted up to 40 times more pollutants.
The fallout forced CEO Martin Winterkorn to resign, although he denied wrongdoing. U.S. authorities issued an arrest warrant for Winterkorn in 2018, but Germany does not extradite its nationals. His trial in Germany was paused in 2021 due to health issues, but he remains a key figure under investigation.
Meanwhile, the arrest of Audi’s then-CEO Rupert Stadler in 2018 marked a dramatic shift, as German prosecutors expanded their probe into current executives. Stadler was accused of continuing to sell cars with illegal software even after the scandal broke.
Across the Atlantic, two former VW engineers — Oliver Schmidt and James Robert Liang — are already serving prison sentences in the U.S. Schmidt, who once led VW’s environmental office in the U.S., was sentenced to seven years after initially denying guilt but later reaching a plea deal. Liang received 40 months after cooperating with prosecutors.
Currently, German authorities are investigating up to 40 executives and engineers across Volkswagen, Audi, and Porsche, with parallel cases against Daimler (Mercedes) and BMW under way.
OCCRP previously reported on Volkswagen’s 2017 U.S. guilty plea and multibillion-dollar settlement.
The Dieselgate saga has so far cost VW an estimated €33 billion ($37.5 billion) and the legal and financial fallout is far from over.
Thousands of European customers continue to press for compensation, while investigators on both sides of the Atlantic keep pushing for accountability at the highest levels.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 4 days ago
defense argued the men were scapegoats.
If you are at the top of an organisation then you can you be a scapegoat? You are literally in charge. Your only chance is if an employee committed fraud and deliberately hid something from you.
nao@sh.itjust.works 5 days ago
The fallout forced CEO Martin Winterkorn to resign, although he denied wrongdoing. U.S. authorities issued an arrest warrant for Winterkorn in 2018, but Germany does not extradite its nationals. His trial in Germany was paused in 2021 due to health issues, but he remains a key figure under investigation.
GuyFawkes@midwest.social 5 days ago
Sounds like execs are familiar with milking the legal process regardless of nationality or prosecuting nation.
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 5 days ago
It’s almost like execs are an international . . . cabal . . . of extremely rich white men who make decisions that only serve them.
But of course that’s just a conspiracy theory.
joel_feila@lemmy.world 5 days ago
Rich people going to jail what fantasy is this. And i can i live there
LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 4 days ago
It’s amazing what you can find if you don’t just look at memes - www.forbes.com.au/…/billionaires-behind-bars/
oxysis@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 days ago
Good
WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today 4 days ago
That’s all we need! We will take back control, restore law and order!
someguy3@lemmy.world 5 days ago
It took 10 years? Well even longer because they figured something was wrong before it came public.
hsdkfr734r@feddit.nl 5 days ago
Not so fast! The judgment isn’t final yet. Plus some trials are still pending. Also the CEO seems to be too sick for trial.
To be fair. There are trials. It could be worse. Imagine people could be deported and sent to prison for alleged crimes. Or so…
HakunaHafada@lemm.ee 5 days ago
It took 10 years?
This was my first thought as well.
Vari@lemm.ee 3 days ago
Let’s go Germany!! Shouldn’t be the election to the rule
jordanlund@lemmy.world 5 days ago
“A good start…”
HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 4 days ago
Gefängnisvergnügen
LodeMike@lemmy.today 5 days ago
:)))))
iAvicenna@lemmy.world 5 days ago
well I guess there are some places where the law does not always serve the rich, that is mildly good news
AntelopeRoom@lemm.ee 5 days ago
Good. I still refuse to consider VW cars over this. Maybe once everyone has received their prison sentences, I’ll reconsider.
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 5 days ago
It wasn’t just VW. It was like a dozen of the major brands all doing it in some way or another.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 4 days ago
You are genuinely the first other person I’ve ever seen online who seems aware that this was an industry-wide thing, not a VW thing.
hietsu@sopuli.xyz 4 days ago
Dont know much about anything but it would not surprise me if it was some Bosch engineers who originaally hinted all those engineers of what could be done with their systems if they just listen some states of other car systems. Afterall, it’s their injection systems etc. almost every diesel manuf used/uses.
KumaSudosa@feddit.dk 4 days ago
What “ethical” car brand do you buy then?
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Is that why my VWAGY and VWAPY have been slowly recovering from their late 2024 slump? Because the old managers were crooks but they’re out now?
Man, what a wild world.
hietsu@sopuli.xyz 4 days ago
This thing happened 2009-> and they got caught around 2015. Justice system is slow.
finitebanjo@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Ah, right then, the European stock market continues to shift up and down beyond any comprehensible logic.
androidul@lemmy.world 4 days ago
oh no, my VW stocks 🥲
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 5 days ago
BMW and VW are the same beasts they were when they were backers of NSDAP in Germany.
Between the VW emissions cheating and BMW’s subscription car features, it seems their attitude towards commerce has not changed a jot.
satanmat@lemmy.world 5 days ago
I long for the day that ANYTHING close to this happens in the USA
tal@lemmy.today 5 days ago
I guess you’ve good news, then.
frezik@midwest.social 5 days ago
To salvage the argument, it’s quite possible this would have been different if they were from GM rather than VW.
CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 days ago
Yeah, unless they are Chief Engineers, these two are just people who got caught in the churn.
Wake me up when the President of US Operations gets sentenced to prison. Hell, I’ll even be okay with club Fed.
nulluser@lemmy.world 5 days ago
Not CEOs
AA5B@lemmy.world 4 days ago
This is the most unbelievable part: a us court held management responsible for criminal behavior? Did that not pay their fines? Did no one have a spare jet to offer?
MajesticElevator@lemmy.zip 5 days ago
When you don’t read the article ^
thefartographer@lemm.ee 5 days ago
Nah, I get what you’re saying, but we’re used to engineers and regular workers getting arrested here. We’ve got one of the most… comprehensive?.. prison systems in the world. It’s just so rare to find executives and anyone making over $300k suffer any real consequences.
TrojanRoomCoffeePot@lemmy.world 5 days ago
Why aim low, why not public flogging, and pillories?
FreeBooteR69@lemmy.ca 5 days ago
How about we don’t bring back corporal punishment. I get the sentiment, but i’d rather our justice system didn’t turn into a torture system.
slaacaa@lemmy.world 4 days ago
Seems like it also doesn’t happen in Germany, as the post title doesn’t match the article.
The two people sent to jail are middle managers (Head of XY), not executives.