We did not do anything. A very small group of people indeed knowingly and willingly poisoned the earth for a bunch of monies.
Youâd think theyâd be jailed for that, but here we are
Submitted âšâš3â© âšweeksâ© agoâ© by âšmeme_historian@lemmy.dbzer0.comâ© to âšaboringdystopia@lemmy.worldâ©
We did not do anything. A very small group of people indeed knowingly and willingly poisoned the earth for a bunch of monies.
Youâd think theyâd be jailed for that, but here we are
This means that now that everyone knows what is required to produce non-stick pans, they will vanish from stores because 99% of humans are well meaning and will not buy destructive products.
Just kidding. My parents (>70yo) told me as achild not to use teflon pans, because they are âunhealthyâ. We all knew. We just donât care.
Not âweâ. You. Many of us actively campaign against it.
Iâm more inclined to think that they werenât willing, but rather that they just didnât work on the implications. Occamâs razor. Donât assume evil when stupidity, or laziness, or simple plain cost cutring can explain things.
Teflon found out and yet did nothing. That is willingly.
Which is wild because if you knew how to properly use oil/butter and a cast iron pan⊠they wonât stick to your pan.
We literally created a world of idiots that donât know how to do anything.
you are so much smarter than everyone else
Look itâs not my fault people didnât get an opportunity to learn these skills because they were instead sold cheap, poisonous bullshit. Why would anyone learn if they didnât to? Itâs not really the fault of individuals who donât know any better when society isnât going out itâs way to teach them such skills. Hell, I didnât learn this until I was in my early thirties, because my parents had used teflon all while I was growing up.
But, please, read it more as me thinking Iâm better than everyone else rather than someone who got lucky enough to learn these skills eventually.
Literally a minute of googling. Takes more to make up arguments why youd still use a pan that kills you and has built in planned obsolesce.
Iâm so happy that my parents taught me to always use cast iron pans, or at least nonstick with a ceramic layer instead of PFAS
Just to be fair though: ingesting Teflon residue from the pan isnât the problem, itâs the chemicals needed in the production process to get the Teflon onto the pan
Cast iron is generally safe but not entirely without risk. Old pans are sometimes made with lead and some newer cheap pans from sketchy sources are made with cadmium and/or lead
Generally if you get like a lodge or whatever youâre fine though. Biggest risk there is that it leeches iron into your food, which is usually beneficial unless you have some uncommon health concerns
A stainless steel pan are also generally safe but have similar issues: low quality pans and excessively scratched pans can leech nickel and chromium. 304 and 316 stainless ($$$) are more resilient against this issue. Stainless takes a bit more technique than cast iron for stuff like eggs and fish but itâs not that tricky (preheat pan, add fat/oil when hot, basically). It is also far more responsive to changing temperature (rather than retaining it) and much lighter so itâs easier to use for sautĂ©ing and such. Cast iron is superior when heat retention is needed: stews, soups, curries, roasts, etc
Ceramic coated cookware is a mess. Some did use PFAS/PFOA and still does, some ceramics have lead and cadmium, and some coatings just suck. I got one pan to experiment with that was lead/cadmium/pfoa/pfas free but the nonstick properties dulled after 2-3 months of daily use. It was not scratched or chipped; I took care to not use metal implements or wash it with abrasives. I did use high heat at times though which potentially degraded it. It was like $50 too. Researching online after I see there are âgoodâ ones for $80, fuck spending that on a single pan.
Iâll stick with cast iron and stainless steel. Can use metal utensils, covers basically every scenario, and cheaper. To be clear, âwell sourcedâ doesnât mean expensive. A 10â lodge cast iron skillet is $20 online. A tramontina 12â 304 stainless frying pan is $35.
Canât we just have AskCulinary back? Please? KenjiâŠ?
I recently switched to cast iron, and I have no fucking idea why I wasted so much time and money on nonstick over the last many years. They are better than nonstick, easier to maintain, and make good taste better as well.
Itâs not the idiots fault for being uneducated and being lied to
Funny how some commenters immediately assume that you are excluding yourself from that.
Because what you say goes for so many things, it affects us all invariably. And it reaches very far into time. I mean who still knows how to make their own tools from sticks and stones.
But OP said that this is not what this video is about!
Teflon residue from the pan isnât the problem, itâs the chemicals needed in the production process to get the Teflon onto the pan, leaching out from the factories into the environment.
âWe poisoned the planetâ
Fuck off! Unscrupulous greed industrialists poisoned the planet knowingly and tried to hide or minimize the fact from the public.
Iâm curious where this money actually went. Like which specific people have it right now.
These persons paid a lot to have laws that exempt them from any responsibility.
Got myself a set of ceramic coated pans just a few days ago. Am very happy with them. No PFAS at all and much better anti stick than my old teflon pan.
Enameled cast iron is like magic.
Worst case I let it soak for a bit and it comes out clean with just a brush in a minute.
The trick is to use wooden spoons to prevent scratching. Egg sticks to the scratches and forces you to make more scratches as you attempt to scrape it off.
The trick is to use any cast iron, carbon steel, stainless and heat the pan then add oil before cooking. zero stick when done after heating
I generally use either wood or plastic when cooking with an anti stick pan (although, supposedly ceramic coating can take more of a beating than teflon).
This puts me off it. I like to be able to use metal tools on my pans
Just learn to use a stainless. The entire trick is literally only preheating.
I might, in the future, get myself a good (set of) steel pans. But for the time being, I have a pretty new set of brand name ceramic coated pans, that I got a very good deal on and that have much better anti stick characteristics than what Iâve seen steel being capable of doing and good steel pans are out of my budget rn.
should i tell you?
Ceramic-coated cookware looks nice and seems like a safe option at first. After all, 100% ceramic is completely safe for cooking purposes. However, a coating of ceramic is usually hiding bad materials.
The soft ceramic coating isnât the most durable and starts chipping after several months of everyday use. When that happens, lead and cadmium that is sometimes found in the coating will end up in your food and later in your body. Lead poisoning is one of the most dangerous types of metal poisoning and can result in abdominal pain, headaches, infertility, and other health complications (and in severe cases, coma and death). Even when the coating is lead-free, chipped cookware can still present dangers â itâs usually neurotoxic aluminum thatâs under the ceramic coating.
Thanks but I specifically bought a set that was lead and cadmium free. Besides that, I donât use those pans daily, so theyâll still last for a while. Maybe Iâll get steel after, but as of now, I like the characteristics of a good anti-stick coating a lot more than steel.
Also, as soon as they chip, they will be replaced anyways. Why would I cook with a broken pan? You wouldnât use a steel pan with a hole in it either.
The âthe aluminium underneath is unhealthyâ is just as terrible an argument as âthe steel pan hurts more when you drop it on your footâ, imo.
They can make Teflon without the forever chemicals. They choose to make it the way they do because it is cheap and easy to scale. Rather than develop better solutions that donât poison us they choose easy money and are rewarded for it.
Use stainless steel and nothing else
Carbon steel, glass, clay, ceramic, aluminum, and enameled cast iron are all great too!
If you watch the video, it says there is no reason to switch, as teflon is not poisonous. The catalyst chemicals in manufacturing when released into rivers and other places is the biggest source. Then some shoddy packaging of fast foods.
Teflon flakes are poisunous. And your teflon pan becomes useless in a few years, no matter what you do Thanks to teflon flaking off.
Put two and two together. And then add: They need to manufacture a new pan for you.
mostly from Aqueous Film Forming Foam
Yay, my generations lead poisoning. Fuck capitalism
To be fair only like 0.1% (yes I made this number up) of all Fluoropolymers end up in frying pans.
Most of it is used in industry, building, medicineâŠ
For more information about this subject I recommend watching this documentary by independent journalism platform Zembla. That talks in detail about the company DuPont (Chemours) and PFOA. m.youtube.com/watch?v=y3kzHc-eV88&pp=ygULWmVtYmxhâŠ
Recently replaced our teflon skillet with a ceramic one, Paris Hilton branded đ
Ffs watch the video or read the post; Teflon is inert and completely safe, the issue is that to boost the speed of production they used PFAS which are very much dangerous at extremely low quantities, and yet itâs everywhere including rainwater
Sure, but if youâre gonna replace a pan anyway, itâd still make sense to buy something else than Teflon because theyâre usually manufactured irresponsibly.
u dumb phuk
We poisoned the planet for us
The original thumbnail had a fork scraping a nomstick pan if anyone is curious
Iâve not watched the video, but the wording/tone/language of the title stinks of sensationalism and pseudo-science.
If I were to click it, which I wonât, I imagine itâd be clickbait and/or nothing to do with eggs or pans.
You really shouldnât comment on the content of a video that you purposely have not watched. It comes across as smug and ignorant. Veritasium videos are well researched, and he does his best to not sensationalize. To suggest that he would promote pseudo-science is absolutely laughable.
Do better.
Well, sorry. The problem is, experience with the Internet has taught me to be wary of clicking things like âwe poisoned the whole planetâ.
This time it was perhaps a false positive.
Iâve updated the post with a short TL;DW section to address your concerns
Thanks
Itâs a veritasium video, titled how one company poisoned the world.
Still click bait but itâs youtube and they have the mighty algorithm to answer too.
Good video well produced and worth the watch
I mean, itâs clickbaty, sure. But also, itâs not wrong
I donât know what the videos about but hereâs my opinion on what itâs about
Ffs, are you trolling?
Iâve not clicked and I know itâs almost certainly talking about Teflon
So very much to do with pans, and likely anything cooked in those pans (e.g. eggs)
Teflon is not a type of PFAS and is actually safe
âThis one trick pans donât want you to knowâ
I havenât actually yet seen any conclusive proof that PFAS are poisonous to ingest, however
Sure, itâs present everywhere, and I wouldnât be shocked if we found out itâs bad for us.
But it has to actually be a poison to call it poison.
Pollutant? For sure. Poison? No proof of that yet. Just very annoying but the very principle that makes it hard to scrub out of water (very non reactive and tiny) is also what makes it seem to, so far, show no negative side effects on stuff.
Itâs there but kinda just, doing nothing as far as we can see⊠so far
We need more funding into studies on it.
âTo poisonâ just means to make people ill by ingesting it. PFOAs are quite well studied and are known carcinogens, and definitely toxic according to multiple studies, this is trivial to find on Wikipedia, etc so⊠I dunno - seems like a contrarian take?
PFOA studies linking exposure to a number of health conditions, including thyroid disorders, chronic kidney disease, liver disease, testicular cancer, infertility and low birth weight. The list goes on, those are just some.
it states that the indirect genotoxic (and thus carcinogenic) potential of PFOA cannot be dismissed
Its important to understand that âcannot be dismissedâ is not the same as âwe think it does do thisâ
Itâs a double negative, its âwe dont not think it causes itâ, but waaaaay more study is needed.
Serum Concentrations of Per- and Polyfluoroalkyl Substances and Risk of Renal Cell Carcinoma
Actually is a new one for me, I havent seen this one, and it does look much more compelling than the other smaller studies, this one is more concerning than the others.
The Panel determined in 2012 there was a âprobable linkâ (i.e., more probable than not based on the weight of the available scientific evidence)
Fourth link is a lot of nothing, why did you bother linking it? It just discusses other studies but doesnt add anything new of substance.
Fifth link is pretty sketchy, theres many other variables that also associate, and they didnt even find a link between specifically PFOS anyways
while no significant association was observed for PFOS (OR = 1.14; 95% CI 0.98-1.34; P = 0.09)
Its important to note that every single one of these studies is empirical post exposure which means many other associated variables can also contribute.
People with low PFAS vs high PFAS exposure almost undoubtedly are also exposed to many other things⊠like pollution in general
Itâs borderline impossible to actually separate out PFAS levels from these other entangled variables, people who are heavily exposed to 1 type of pollution will also be exposed to many others, and theres a heavy association between living situation and PFAS exposure.
That is why its so damn hard to get any conclusive proof on this, the only way to truly figure it out would be to purposefully administer PFAS to people intentionally in a controlled environment, to try and separate out variables.
The relationships that do show up are all very tenuous, and could easily be also explained by the dozens of other variables, so thats why you keep seeing the wording of âmay contributeâ or ârequires further studyâ or âassociated withâ
There is (according to the video) concrete evidence for both acute toxicity as well as causal carcinogenic effects when it comes to PFOA.
The distinction here is between lpng-chained Fluoropolymers like Teflon, which are completely benign as far as evidence suggests; and fluoroalkyl acids (like PFOA), that are short-chained, can enter the bloodstream, and mimic the structure of fatty acids thus being able to bond to stuff in our body.
No, thereâs a very minor causational link that has been classified as âneeds further studyâ
cancer.org/âŠ/teflon-and-perfluorooctanoic-acid-pfâŠ.
Its extremely far away from âconcrete evidenceâ, thatâs what Im talking about when saying this video was hypebole.
Many places are classifying it as potentially hazardous to be safe, because:
I havenât actually yet seen any conclusive proof that PFAS are poisonous to ingest
That happens when you bury your head in the sand and refuse to learn anything.
⊠No? I consider myself pretty well read.
If you have any conclusive peer reviewed papers that prove PFAS are poisonous if ingested at such microscopic scales, please by all means⊠link them
I have been keeping an eye on the progression of study on PFAS for nearly 6 years now since they started finding it all over the world. Im not gonna claim it isnt poisonous, but I certainly am gonna say despite all the studying, no actual issues have been found with them yet that have been repeatable in peer reviewed studies.
Everything seems to still be quite a bit inconclusive so far. Albeit I also chalk a lot of that up to a pretty heavy amount of muzzling on actually researching the impact of PFAS. If you have anything that proves otherwise though, by all means share it with the rest of the class.
Now, if you wanna talk about inhaling vapors from burnt PFAS, now we are talking about potential poisons that can really fuck you up.
But the quantity of PFAS in things like drinking water seems to be so incredibly low and some studies have shown that boiling water actually helps remove many different types of microplastics, including PFAS, due to interesting effects of sodium deposits in the water forming that bind to them sorta Katamari Damacy style.
But other than that, no, I havent seen anything else, just a loooot of âinconclusive, needs further studyâ stuff published time and time again.
Even watching a video is too hard for you, poor baby
No, I watched it, and the end result is a lot of hyperbole.
Wrong use of PTFE. There are applications⊠Not consumer products where PTFE is one of only a few things that can work.
bstix@feddit.dk âš2â© âšweeksâ© ago
For anyone who canât be bothered to watch the entire 1 hour episode: Itâs not really about frying pans.
The PFAs are everywhere by now. Butter on a pan will do jack shit to save you. Itâs really fucked up. You should watch the video.
meme_historian@lemmy.dbzer0.com âš2â© âšweeksâ© ago
Yup your most likely sources are stuff like:
skeezix@lemmy.world âš2â© âšweeksâ© ago
We didnât poison the whole planet so our eggs wont stick. A small number of people poisoned the planet to get rich
Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca âš2â© âšweeksâ© ago
Firefighting foam used at airports. Every airport, every military base with an airstrip practices routinely with PFAS. They are still doing it.
It is everywhere. Water, soil, rain and you.