Submitted 4 hours ago by meatwads_tooth@sh.itjust.works to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
If you truly love your partner, does a ring and a ceremony really do anything?
I know there are certain legal situations where an official marriage changes who has certain rights, but aren’t those same rights available if you make other legally-official decisions E.G. a will or trusts, etc?
I’m generally curious why people get married beyond the “because I love them” when it costs so much money.
Marriage? Why, it’s the greatest weapon in any noble’s arsenal! Let me enlighten you on matters of state and power.
Marriage isn’t about love; that’s a peasant’s fantasy. For those of us who bear the weight of ancient houses, marriage is statecraft of the highest order.
When I wed the second daughter of House Tyrell, I gained three castles along the Roseroad and secured my southern border against those Dornish vipers. Her father’s bannermen now answer my call; five thousand spears when winter comes.
Marriage binds blood to blood. When your wife bears your children, you’ve created heirs that unite two powerful lineages. Should some upstart lord challenge either house, they face the combined might of both.
Consider the Lannisters and their gold. A prudent marriage there secures not just coin for your depleted coffers, but access to their formidable fleet. Or perhaps the Arryns, whose impregnable Eyrie would shield your lands from eastern invaders.
Politics shifts like quicksand, but marriage creates bonds that even the most treacherous lords hesitate to break. The realm notices when sacred vows are betrayed, and remembers.
So you ask what’s the point? Power, lands, armies, legitimacy, and the future of your house. What greater purpose exists for those of us born to rule?
Now pass the wine. These matters of dynasty have made my throat dry.
Is there a Lemmy hall of fame yet?
There’s at least !bestoflemmy@lemmy.world
Taxes. Health Insurance.
It’s not necessary for a visa in a lot of places. Canada uses common law partnership, for example.
Actually, marriage is one of the founding circumstances why we actually have laws. Although it is reasonable to assume that every marriage ritual in early societies had some kind of ‘blessed be this couple’ aspect, it originated out of civil necessity (structuring inheritance) before the Jesus Club took over and changed the meaning
That really depends on your jurisdiction. There are places where domestic partners have a different status. Mostly because of the long arm of the Catholic Church.
Marriage doesn’t have to cost a lot of money, if a couple chooses to spend a lot on their wedding they’re doing it for that sake, but it’s not necessary.
I got married for free. In my town you can do that on Tuesday mornings. You can even bring up to 6 guests.
Did you not need a marriage license?
L in addition to protecting your land from invaders It’s very important when it comes to having kids. If you are married it’s easy
I didn’t get married for the love or the religious reasons, it’s just way easier when you buy a house together. Now, if I die, all my stuff automatically belongs to my wife.
What town is this where everybody gets free Tuesday morning weddings?
Not that I need another one, it just seems to be happening a lot in here
This was Meppel but every municipality in the Netherlands has a free marriage half hour. It varies what day it is but it’ll usually be early morning.
Most municipalities in the Netherlands have one morning per week for free marriages. Not always tuesday though.
That actually depends on the country. In Germany, as an example, it doesn’t automatically go to your wife - you still have to declare that in your will.
We have the option. If you get married you can get married in ‘(beperkte) gemeenschap van goederen’, which means ‘what’s mine is yours’. Caveat is that anything you owned before you got married will not be taken into account.
Then there’s ‘huwelijkse voorwaarden’ which means ‘what’s mine is mine’.
Marriage wasn’t important to me, either - I was with my now husband for many years before we tied the knot. I’d never been one for the traditional big wedding, wasn’t sure what difference it would make, etc.
What changed? My Mum died - and in all the times at hospital and then dealing with the funeral etc - I realised just how important being “next of kin” actually is. In so many ways. And while you can cover most of your bases with various legal documents - honestly there’s already a super easy way, that is very well understood all over the world, that achieves this.
And while I wasn’t expecting it to feel any different afterwards, it really did - for both of us. More certainty and just really solid.
Glad you mentioned ‘next of kin.’ This is the important answer. If you’re married, you can do all that important legal stuff- make medical decisions if your partner is unconscious or indisposed, get the death certificate if that happens and give it to all the people who will need it.
Say your partner is in a car accident and you go to the hospital. There’s no marriage, no forms, no nothing to indicate you’re at all related to this person. You’re just some dude or lady, showing up at some dude or lady’s bedside. You can’t make the decisions for this person. Even if, say, they have a horrible narcissistic mother they’re estranged from- that mother, just by being the mother, can get all the authority to make decisions your unconscious partner would hate!
(Drawing from my own life. Fuck my mother.)
You can’t even call the hospital and get information on them. If they aren’t awake to indicate a release of information, the hospital can’t let you see them, can’t tell you anything.
This is just the first example that came to mind. The purpose of marriage is, it’s a legal way to indicate that you’re the most important person in the life of the person you marry. (And yes, depending on where you are and laws in your state or country or whatever, domestic partnership and other stuff can grant that, too.)
My marriage cost about 200 Euros and all of that went into Starfleet uniforms for the two of us. Our reason for getting married was financial, but we’d been engaged for 2 decades. Just hadn’t gotten around to actually doing it, heh. Nothing’s actually changed about our relationship since then because of course, why would it, we’d been together for 22 years before saying yes. But it’s just a nice, grand gesture to proclaim to the world in uncertain terms that you intend to stay together.
I’m in the same boat. My other half has been stuck with me for nearly twenty years now and bigger and better things have come up that have needed the money spent on it.
The bit of paper will come in handy if one of us kicks the bucket though, or even when it comes to claiming certain tax allowances in the UK. I just want to make sure they’re sorted financially when I end up brown bread, and proving their connection to me is going to me one of the last things on the list in the immediate aftermath of a bereavement.
I’m not arsed one way or another about it though.
The point is the legal benefits and publicly declaring your love and commitment, if you care about that.
You can spend as little as you want, if you only care about the legal status. But since you are probably asking about the usual big wedding - it’s really just throwing a party to celebrate the act. It’s not mandatory. Invite people you want to party with and celebrate life in a way you want.
What can suck about it is the peer pressure from parents and other people to do it the way they want, to do it “properly”.
Aight, you seem to want to ignore the legal benefits, so I won’t mention that beyond saying that it is a hell of a lot easier to get married than to figure out all the paperwork needed to duplicate it, and not even have the exact same outcomes, just the majority. The tax thing, for example, you can’t file jointly if you aren’t married, no matter what else you set up
The biggest thing is the experience, imo. The memory.
Now, me and my wife went to the JoP, with our kid and required witnesses (my best friend and his husband).
No fancy reception, no major party, just went home and said to my dad “we’re back, no problems.” He said congratulations, and went back to watching TV.
Total spent was about a hundred bucks, including gas. And the memories of it are wonderful, we cherish it all, and we’re happy as hell we didn’t do anything else.
Wedding ceremonies, however, are expensive once you go beyond that bare minimum. That’s a cultural/sociological thing where the needs of the individual and the culture mesh into not only believing it necessary, but beneficial.
And, for the people that want it, it is beneficial. Ceremonies, rites, rituals, they serve a purpose beyond the legal or official status that comes with them. Weddings are as much about community as they are the couple. It’s the union being both recognized and celebrated at the same time, even when it’s a secular ceremony rather than religious.
Don’t get me wrong, the money spent on empty bullshit surrounding weddings is absurd. But the actual wedding, where the community stands around the couple is incredibly powerful in terms of validation, even when it’s the license that really matters legally. You can have ceremonies without the license; I performed several of them back before same sex marriage became legal. Those events were important, and doubly so because they had no legal standing.
I think that’s what you’re missing, that there’s a massive difference between two people shacking up and marriage. When the people involved swear an oath, and/or exchange symbols of union it means something, even if there’s no witnesses, not even someone to perform a ceremony. But as you move into witnesses and an officiant, it feels different because it is a public commitment. You can still divorce or whatever, but it happened, and you can never deny that. That moment, the vows, they exist in a way they don’t if you swear only to each other.
Yeah, two people can be just as committed, and honor their commitment perfectly without anything else. But it feels different.
Now, again, I’d argue that once you start shelling out for crazy dresses and cake and niche receptions, you hit diminishing returns very quick. That’s to satisfy other things, not the union itself. It may well make people happy, but it doesn’t add anything to the underlying point of there being a ceremony in the first place. That of saying to the world “where once there were two, now there are one”.
Not that anyone has to share the valuation, but it’s what underlies the whole thing, and it has value
The tax thing, for example[:] you can’t file jointly if you aren’t married, no matter what else you set up
Not true. We filed jointly for years as common law. 🇨🇦
Ahhh, I made the error of forgetting to note that it does vary by location. Thank you :)
when it costs so much money.
What? Why should it? We married cheap, no rings or anything, it costs next to nothing.
I am not married to my husband for legal reasons. This means when he dies, his family could take everything and leave me with nothing as I’m “just the girlfriend”. Now, a will can help, but I dread what would happen because they still could fight it and it sucks. Being legally married basically shuts that down entirely.
Do you have common law marriage where you live? In some places you are considered “common law” married after living together for a certain amount of time.
Luckily no, because legally we do not want to be married. It would make most stuff more difficult.
My husband is an ‘adult disabled since childhood’. If he marries anyone but another ‘adult disabled since childhood’ he loses all government benefits. Which he’s currently using to you know. Survive.
But given the way the governments going he might lose it anyway so maybe we’ll get married then before dying. Or something.
It doesn’t HAVE to cost so much. The wedding doesn’t cost a lot.
The ceremony and the party are what cost a lot.
But you can go down to city hall, in plain clothes, pay a small fine, fill out some paperwork, bada bing bada boom, married.
But good luck getting 99% of women to give up their dream wedding for a city hall wedding with 1 city appointed witness, and no guests.
Why the pointless sexist stereotyping?
Plenty of women don’t care about a “dream wedding”
A small fee rather than a small fine, surely?
Some rights can be similar, but you’ll always have to declare the other person as your legal whatever. Marriage says to the state that this person is my default for pretty much everything–power of attorney, medical stuff, property ownership, etc. So if I get in an accident and fall unconscious, my wife doesn’t have to fight the hospital staff to see me.
Depending on your country, there are other bonds that have the same legal binding as marriage.
In addition, if we’re honest, there are some “soft” benefits as well. My wife changed her name when we got married, and having the same last name (and our kids having the same last name) avoids a lot of complexity with things like traveling (especially because our daughter is a different skin color than the rest of us). Marriage didn’t explicitly grant us that privilege, but there are a lot of societal norms that come with it that have proven beneficial.
I’m not trying to claim that any of this is how it should be necessarily, but if you’re asking about practical reasons why, those are some of them. If you want the practical benefits without the cost, it’s (relatively) cheap to go to the courthouse or Vegas. Hell, you can get a friend to perform the ceremony for free, all you pay is for the marriage license. But if you’re otherwise not interested in marriage and those benefits don’t appeal (or whatever other reason), just stay dating.
Thanks for sharing! Concerning logistics when travelling I can also share my experience.
I travel on a Dutch passport and my children, while also having Dutch citizenship, travel on German passports because that is where we live and where my wife is from. They also use my wife’s German last name. Therefore, when travelling, my kids and I have different names and nationalities. For some reason nobody ever questioned any of that. I keep a copy of the birth certificate just in case though.
It doesn’t have to cost a lot to officiate a marriage if you have 2 witnesses and use the registry office.
I married my partner, after being with them for over a decade, and a few years of living together full-time. It was mostly for admin reasons (we just bought our home, and being married made things easier if one of us died). If it wasn’t for that I don’t think we would have bothered. We know we love each other, and had decided a few years before that if we’d get married if we ever needed to, so it wasn’t like we ever ‘proposed’. Just a tiny ceremony with two friends as witness, and we went out to a restaurant for lunch afterwards. I don’t think it cost us anything beyond lunch? Maybe a tiny admin fee?
But… I’m so happy we did! It’s weird! I never really cared, and rationally, I still think it hasn’t changed anything. But somehow it feels… really nice? I still regularly think (and tell them) “I’m so glad I married you”. I’m sure there are lots of other things that you can do to symbolise your relationship or commitment. If I got a tattoo inspired by my partner I’d probably have the same feeling of looking at it and thinking of them that I do when I play with my wedding ring (2€ piece of silly junk from aliexpress. And we each bought a bunch of spares so that when we inevitably lose them it’s not a problem). But actually a marriage is one of the simplest and cheaper ways (if you don’t choose or feel pressured into turning it into a stupid moneysink).
Tldr: didn’t care about marriage, got married for tax, and weirdly found it deeply satisfying in a completely unexpected way.
The answer will likely depend on the place in the world and even on the cultural background of individuals getting married. I’ll just share my experience.
We got married out of convenience. While it’s technically possible to arrange the bulk of the legal stuff with various contracts, it is just easier to use the “default contract” that already covers the most common use case. Some legal arrangements, for example cuts to inheritance tax or the right to remain silent when asked about your spouse in legal proceedings, are only available for “real” marriages.
Once we decided to have children we looked into the various arrangements needed to make that work and quickly found out that marriage is the easiest way to sort everything out. In our day to day life nothing really changed. In legal terms quite a lot is now different.
By the way, as others have mentioned, getting married isn’t expensive. All we paid was the administrative fee which was something like 50 Euros.
Depends a lot on your personal situation, and jurisdiction.
Doing a ceremony when you publicly say you love each other is already a valid reason
In some jurisdiction, you’d get a form of tax benefit for being married, it often comes with downside like having welfare benefit based on the couple revenue rather than on individual ones (hence the tax benefit). Talk with an accountant/Tax-lawyer knowing your local laws for details
It gives a legal status to your shared asset. Sure you could create a real-estate-investment company to buy your house and many people do that but being married, with a proper prenup give you a lot of agency regarding your shared asset
It protects the weaker partner, usually the one scarifying their carrer for the couple if things goes wrong
I follow most of these points but I’m not sure I understand point 4?
You pay less taxes, its easier to get a loan (if you both have good credit), you automatically have all the rights to know about their health in an emergency situation, whereas a girlfriend/boyfriend needs to go through extra steps, some of which are impossible in an emergency. Some people also view marriage as a very religious thing and so that part of it is a big deal to them.
Depending on the country it can make e a significant difference in finances, because taxes, inheritance laws, credit scores, etc.
Finances aside, yes, for some people the ceremony is a ritual that carries heavy meaning and the ring and a ceremony is a way to strengthen the relationship. Is a ritual that is culturally significant and very significant for some. Everyone is different so just because for you and me it is irrelevant that’s not the case for thousands of others.
It’s like swearing an oath of sorts. You may ask yourself, why do they waste time in court making people say they won’t lie and why some need to do it with a bible? People still lie after all. Or what difference does it make when people hook pinkies over a promise? It’s just a promise like any other and it can be broken. But people still do these things, and they get married too.
Idk I hate it though my former bestfriend thinks of me as nothing more then a line item in her check book and I have to pay for her poor decisions.
It’s the symbolism
I want to show the world that I love my woman, and I’ll do it in every way that I can
deadcatbounce@reddthat.com 17 minutes ago
As a male. None.