Currently, an agreement is under review to ensure that 70% of the Sphere’s power needs will come from solar sources, with the other 30% from non-renewable energy that will be offset by renewable energy credits.
Ahh yes, energy credits. Aka bullshit.
Las Vegas' dystopia-sphere, powered by 150 Nvidia GPUs and drawing up to 28,000,000 watts, is both a testament to the hubris of humanity and an admittedly impressive technical feat | PC Gamer
Submitted 3 months ago by filister@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
PunnyName@lemmy.world 3 months ago
holgersson@lemm.ee 3 months ago
We shouldnt call them energy credits, but rather indulgences.
WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 3 months ago
We should call them FRAUD
Windex007@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Somewhere in an ancient crypt, the bones of Luther begin to twitch to life…
brbposting@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Hey!
They’re not always BS. Just most of the time!
Or are they? Some of the companies who are the best at it and seem to be genuinely trying have been shown not to be able to guarantee one way or the other.
“Wait, someone cut down that forest we planted?!” (no joke)
RvTV95XBeo@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Just to be clear, renewable energy credits are different than carbon offsets, and easier to guarantee because they’re often tied directly to a metered renewable energy source.
That said, there are still junk RECs on the market, like those tied to energy that was produced up to 2 decades ago that nobody got around to claiming / retiring. Or RECs tied to energy sources that may have happened regardless of the REC sale.
PunnyName@lemmy.world 3 months ago
At least I understand forests that are replanted over and over to be used for lumber, effectively reducing the use of old lumber for myriad products.
nikita@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Energy credits — what a bunch of vacuous rhetoric.
The reality is that it’s energy being taken away from the overall grid, requiring a larger grid and thus prolonging our dependence on non renewable energy while we build up renewable sources.
If we weren’t so wasteful with our energy we wouldn’t need as much of it and it’d be easier to go fully renewable.
Cosmicomical@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Well this is not goog math at all. If you create a project and offset all its power requirements, you haven’t added anything to the grid. The alternative is to not do stuff, which is not going to happen anytime soon*, so it’s a net good thing and needs to be incentivized, not disparaged.
*Well it will happen after the water wars and plagues wipe us out, and the sphere will stop drawing any energy at that point.
CaliforniaSober@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Consider ”hate credits”… like imagine the KKK can do whatever it wants so long as they claim to offset it with “hate credits”…
danc4498@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Currently, an agreement is under review to ensure that 70% of the Sphere’s power needs will come from solar sources, with the other 30% from non-renewable energy that will be offset by renewable energy credits.
Nevada has pledged to achieve net zero emissions of greenhouse gases by 2050, and the solar project under construction to help offset its energy debt is estimated to complete in 2027.
How stupid is it that somebody can claim “Net Zero” greenhouse gas emissions when 30% of their power is greenhouse gas.
Just gonna throw this out there. Fuck credits, charge a carbon tax.
capital@lemmy.world 3 months ago
We’ll also ignore the fact that that solar could have been used to offset actual needs instead of this BS.
frezik@midwest.social 3 months ago
If only Las Vegas were located somewhere that the sun shines almost all day every day. \s
duffman@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Vegas exists because of the BS.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
The word net does a lot of heavy lifting and it’s just a scam
You can use 100% coal power and claim net zero by buying a forest
w2tpmf@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Well you don’t understand what “net” means.
It doesn’t mean literally zero. It means colunm A and column B average out to zero.
To acheive a real net zero, they have to save energy somewhere else that takes that column past 100% (Such as if their solar panels produce more energy than they use during certain times.)
They probably just make some shit up to say their are saving extra somewhere they aren’t (so to that point, yes…credits are bullshit.)
NecroSocial@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Fuck credits, charge a carbon tax.
IMO it seems RECs are a better solution than carbon taxes at least in situations like this. With RECs you’re buying renewable energy to offset non-renewables, with a carbon tax the company is just giving the government money for use of non-renewables. Only funds spent on RECs in this case actually go to supporting the renewable energy sector. I’m no expert in this stuff so I could be off, just how I understand it.
Usernameblankface@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Maybe, I mean just maybe, they can run this thing only as long as the solar generated power lasts, and then turn it off 30% of the time.
Sorgan71@lemmy.world 3 months ago
They never claimed net zero. They plan to achieve net zero by 2050
danc4498@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Yeah, that’s in the quote. I’m more complaining about the concept of “net zero”.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Exactly. Carbon credits for the win! I love me some Pigouvian taxes. :)
ShittyBeatlesFCPres@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Las Vegas in general is a testament to the hubris of humanity and an admittedly impressive technical feat. Does it even exist without the Hoover Dam?
batmaniam@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I don’t know about power, but Vegas is actually incredibly water efficient. Due to the way the water rights work with the Colorado river, they’re not allowed very much, but it doesn’t “count” if you put it back in. So nearly every drop they use is treated and put back (probably cleaner, tbh). Boggles the brain, but somehow it’s actually a fairly sustainable city. More than any other other major metro, in any event.
DevopsPalmer@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Considering they are in a literal desert, they would have to be fairly sustainable to exist in the first place. Not saying it’s not super impressive, my dad lived out there when they were building up a lot of the expanded infrastructure and he has some cool stories about how he saw the desert on the outskirts disappear as they added in all the water and transportation stuff
axo@feddit.de 3 months ago
What do other cities do with their wastewater? Isnt that the norm?
prole@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
It was also, literally, built by the mob
InvaderDJ@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It’s funny, I think Vegas is perfectly fine as the city of sin so things like this really don’t phase me. It was built on the idea of crime and excess.
What does seem weird to me is how in a desert, why isn’t everything solar? The sun is their only natural resource besides sand. Every rooftop and parking lot and flat surface possible seems like it should be a panel.
aidan@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Vegas is surrounded by empty desert, they don’t need to use rooftops and parking lots
fukurthumz420@lemmy.world 3 months ago
even deserts host life. it’s kind of a ecological misnomer that we could just cover the deserts of the world in solar panels. that would have serious repercussions.
fatalError@lemmy.sdf.org 3 months ago
Solar only works during the day. During night you need batteries which are not renewable. Mining lithium trashes ecosystems and we probably have enough for like 50 more years at this rate, cobalt is extracted through slave labour. And we’ve seen how well recycling works for other materials which are less complex. So all these renewables aren’t all that green in every aspect. Unless we solve the energy storage problem it isn’t as simple as putting up more panels.
frezik@midwest.social 3 months ago
You know, I’m getting really sick of these comments where people think they know what they’re talking about and repeat a bunch of talking points about lithium.
Lithium is not going to be basis of a renewable grid. We need it for EVs because it’s the best Wh/kg that we have right now, but we don’t care so much about weight for grid storage. Cost/kg is the main measure we care about there (though there are some other considerations in specific conditions). We already have tech being deployed in the field that’s better than lithium for grid storage. Flow batteries, flywheels, pumped hydro, or just heating up sand or rocks.
Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
Sodium batteries (which are on the market now) are way more environmentally friendly than Lithium batteries.
The materials are very accessible by comparison to Lithium batteries and they’re way more stable.
n3m37h@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
dan@upvote.au 3 months ago
28,000,000 watts
That’s usually written as 28MW. I know some Americans don’t like Metric much, but one of the points of metric is that you don’t ever need to write that many zeroes - you just need to use the right prefix (kilo, mega, giga, tera, etc) on the unit.
ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
True, but 28 million watts really puts things in perspective when your average PSU is less than 1000w.
magi@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 months ago
Exactly. This is literally a PC gamer article. Writing it out like that really puts it into perspective for the average reader.
dan@upvote.au 3 months ago
That’s true.
average PSU is less than 1000w
Unrelated but I wish it was easier to find lower-wattage PSUs. My local PC store doesn’t have anything under 650W. I know modern GPUs use a lot of power, but not all PCs use a GPU! I have a home server where 400W would be more than enough, yet the smallest I could find was 550W, in stock from just one manufacturer (Be Quiet).
calcopiritus@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Way easier to compare 28MW to 1KW.
rc__buggy@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
you just need to use the right prefix (kilo, mega, giga, tera, etc) on the unit.
Oh, thanks.
Bruh, it’s PC Gamer.
Remavas@programming.dev 3 months ago
Because Joule is the SI unit of energy, meanwhile the Watt is the SI unit of power, equivalent to one Joule per second.
“Converting” joules to watts would be like converting m/s to US dollars.
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Wait, why do they need 150 GPUs for a 1.2 megapixel display?
That’s less than 1080p!
Who engineered this monstrosity?
yggdar@lemmy.world 3 months ago
They say there are 16 screens inside, each with a 16k resolution. Such a screen would have 16x as many pixels as a 4k screen. The GPUs power those as well.
For the number of GPUs it appears to make sense. 150 GPUs for the equivalent of about 256 4k screens means each GPU handles ±2 4k screens. That doesn’t sound like a lot, but it could make sense.
The power draw of 28 MW still seems ridiculous to me though. They claim about 45 kW for the GPUs, which leaves 27955 kW for everything else. Even if we assume the screens are stupid and use 1 kw per 4k agent, that only accounts for 246 kW, leaving 27709 kW. Where the fuck does all that energy go?! Am I missing something?
Vanix@lemmy.world 3 months ago
This is a complete shot in the dark but could the huge power come from needing some intense industrial cooling/airflow stuff in/on the sphere?
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Oh Jesus, there are 16 16K screens? I didn’t read that right at all. That’s completely superfluous. The Las Vegas Sphere is an affront to God.
srecko@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Yeah, 4k phone and 4k plasma tv don’t consume same ammount of energy.
brbposting@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
Says 16K, where’s the disconnect? (I don’t know display tech)
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Ah, you’re right, that’s 1.2 megapixel for the exterior, and 132 megapixel for the interior.
That’s a substantial increase, but it’s still the equivalent of about 16 4K screens, which absolutely does not need 150 GPUs!
ShepherdPie@midwest.social 3 months ago
That’s the outside. The inside is 256 million pixels.
Zachariah@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Add a solar array and battery bank, a you might even have electricity left over. It’s in the desert after all.
LodeMike@lemmy.today 3 months ago
Still a waste of energy because that could be used for the general grid
Zachariah@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I wouldn’t say entertainment is a waste of energy even if there are nobler uses for the power.
NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Have you ever seen a solar array that gives 28 MW?
jjjalljs@ttrpg.network 3 months ago
allow me to remind you about ✨opportunity costs ✨
werefreeatlast@lemmy.world 3 months ago
And a waste of electricity?
JackbyDev@programming.dev 3 months ago
I believe that’s implied in the “hubris” bit.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Its one of the smaller atrocities in Vegas, particularly when compared to the Bellagio Fountain or the food waste generated by all those casino dining halls.
BobGnarley@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Yeah we should have never invented televisions or records either! And don’t even get me started on cell phones. Just waste waste waste.
Why, if it were up to me we would all still be hunting and gathering!
xthexder@l.sw0.com 3 months ago
I don’t know what they need so many GPUs for. There’s 16 displays inside, and the sphere itself has fewer pixels than even 1 of the internal displays. You could probably run the sphere off a laptop if you aren’t trying to do anything fancy.
Maybe they plan on doing crazy live simulations on it or something. I can’t imagine what kind of displayed image would actually use all 150 of them. Nvidia A6000 cards are damn powerful.
yardy_sardley@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
Probably have a few cards running the displays and the rest of them mining some sphere-themed memecoin
magnetosphere@fedia.io 3 months ago
I hope the name “dystopia sphere” catches on.
root@precious.net 3 months ago
Using the max power use of a video card to math this is ridiculous. It’s not at full TDP pushing this content. They aren’t playing max FPS 3D raytraced gaming, they’re playing videos.
blind3rdeye@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Is the ‘dystopia-sphere’ trying to compete with the torment nexus or something?
menemen@lemmy.world 3 months ago
I mean it is cool. But really a testament to why we deserve extinction at this point…
MonkderDritte@feddit.de 3 months ago
If they reversed it (displays inside), it would be the best immersive gaming setup ever. What a waste.
drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Might as well just give up on the earth right now I guess
razorwiregoatlick@lemmy.world 3 months ago
It would be impressive it could be done without destroying our planet. This should impress no one.
Tattorack@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Wouldn’t just one GPU be enough to run the Sphere, or a I getting something wrong?
I remember hearing about that it’s not exactly high resolution, each “pixel” being a bunch of pretty large lamps.
Uruanna@lemmy.world 3 months ago
A bomb that could destroy Earth’s core would be an admittedly impressive technical feat!
AeonFelis@lemmy.world 3 months ago
That article gets stuck so much and makes my (relatively high end) laptop’s fan scream so hard you’d think the website was designed for that kind of hardware.
geography082@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Useless
Usernameblankface@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Ok, so it’s “capable of drawing” enough power for 20,000 homes in the area. How much does it actually use day to day? Does it dim at night and brighten in the daytime to keep those ads rolling in the sunshine?
Iloveyurianime@ani.social 3 months ago
I guess they dont need to pay for heating when you have a bunch of high power computers pumping out a crap ton of heat
KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
And unless it displays a picture of Mr. House it’s all for naught
Dadifer@lemmy.world 3 months ago
That pretty much describes all of Vegas.
PenisWenisGenius@lemmynsfw.com 3 months ago
In 2030 this will just be the standard system requirements for AAA games because optimization is hard.
SunDevil@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
“Capable of drawing 28,000,000 watts of power” doesn’t tell us anything. As was noted, it should’ve been given in megawatts (28 mW) or kilowatts (28,000 kW). Clickbait aside, how many kilowatt-hours (kWh) does it actually use?
28 mW isn’t that much energy, relatively speaking. As of 2015, Forbes estimated LV uses 8000 mW on an average summer day.
The potential is impressive. I doubt it pulls anywhere near that. Unless I did my math wrong, this seems sensationalist.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 3 months ago
At every stage of it’s life cycle; the Sphere has been the dumbest thing imaginable
And because some rich people got scammed into buying in now everyone has to advertise it
xthexder@l.sw0.com 3 months ago
So how is the total power over 500x that of the GPU power? If it’s all LEDs, that thing must get brighter than the damn sun.
gianni@lemmy.ml 3 months ago
We need more nuclear power ASAP
eager_eagle@lemmy.world 3 months ago
The power of 21000 homes for advertising.
What’s most impressive is that it is even legal.
LodeMike@lemmy.today 3 months ago
Or profitable
CosmoNova@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Is it? Last I‘ve heard it was bleeding money.
treadful@lemmy.zip 3 months ago
I love this kind of shit. Building things for the sake of it is worth it. Not only as just expression, which may be hubris but it’s still expression. Also entertainment, inspiration, pushing the art of engineering, and just giving people something to do, and all the good that comes with that like personal and trade growth.
A purely utilitarian life is a life only spent on survival. Not a life I want to live.
assassinatedbyCIA@lemmy.world 3 months ago
We can do that, but first let’s make sure everyone on the planet has clean water first.
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 3 months ago
Well, that hubris won’t afford you a livable world for much longer.
We could have respected the planet that birthed us, and taken only what we needed. Instead we extracted every natural resource we could find, and left behind countless shattered ecosystems. Even as the walls close in, we accelerate our pettiness and perform acts of wastefulness that alone do measurable ecological damage, and we celebrate it because it is “cool”.
Image
rasensprenger@feddit.org 3 months ago
I understand that perspective, but does it really have to be advertising?
Cosmicomical@lemmy.world 3 months ago
This isn’t pushing any boundaries, though. This is off the shelf technology. Anybody can do something big by throwing a shit ton of money at it. It would be pushing boundaries of tech or art if it was for instance super power efficient, or mind bending in any way. This is a fucking sphere, it’s the simplest shape and a rip off of the pyramids but less original and not even comparable in terms of durability.
JJROKCZ@lemmy.world 3 months ago
Sure but we’re burning tons of coal to have this thing advertise minion movies, not anything artistic or worthwhile.
KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 months ago
Advertising? This thing is essentially a theater. Yeah, it can run advertisement but anything with a screen can do that. It’s like saying a movie theatre is for advertising.
zalgotext@sh.itjust.works 3 months ago
It’s a 400 foot tall screen that’s constantly on and in view, even at night, which plays ads like 90% of the time. Calling it “essentially a theatre” is a huge understatement.