[deleted]
Arizona toddler rescued after getting trapped in a Tesla with a dead battery | The Model Y’s 12-volt battery, which powers things like the doors and windows, died
Submitted 4 months ago by ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/21/24183439/tesla-model-y-arizona-toddler-trapped-rescued
Comments
ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world 4 months ago
iturnedintoanewt@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Does it also send a poop emoji now?
Neato@ttrpg.network 4 months ago
Sounds like journalists can just make shit up and publish it. “Telsa declined to comment.” so I guess it’s true until corrected.
frezik@midwest.social 4 months ago
It’s how journalists apply pressure to companies to respond. “We have statements x, y, and z from the public about you. Do you care to respond? We need to go to press with it in two hours.” Companies can ignore it if they want, but the statements will go uncontested.
DaddleDew@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Let me fill in for them then: “We CoUlDn’T PoSsIbLy pReDiCt ThAt tHiS wAs GoInG tO hApPeN!”
That’s the usual typical Corporate bad faith answer to whenever a serious consequence that everyone could see coming but they kept ignoring finally happens.
helenslunch@feddit.nl 4 months ago
Honestly it’s pretty smart. There’s nothing you can say in the modern age that won’t be intentionally misrepresented, misquoted, or otherwise twisted. Plus there’s really no defending stupid decisions like this. Same reason Apple almost never comments on anything that isn’t marketing. They know they can’t justify their bullshit.
cheese_greater@lemmy.world 4 months ago
MadLad that Elmo is
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Failsafe.
Fail Safe.
Fail Open.
Elon is why we need to write safety regulations. He’s the kind of guy who would put sawdust in your food and call it innovation.
Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Agree on your overall sentiment, though I’d say it is a bit more complicated than that for car doors. You don’t want it to fail and come open while moving, for example, especially if the car is coming to a stop and inertia forces the doors fully open. That Boeing door failed open and it was not very safe.
Vehicle doors should be fail functional rather than open to fail safe. As in designed to be very unlikely to fail and/or still functional even if one or several components do fail.
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 4 months ago
I’d say it is a bit more complicated than that for car doors.
Car doors work fine on every car but a Tesla. They aren’t some new technology invented by Tesla where design flaws like this are understandable. Tesla just does things so badly that they invent brand new dangers that only exist with their vehicles.
You don’t want it to fail and come open
That isn’t what “fail open” means. It doesn’t mean that the moment the battery dies all the doors fly open. It means that when the battery dies the doors aren’t latched shut like a bank safe.
At a minimum, the key should offer a way to open the car from the outside when the battery is dead. It’s completely asinine to put the only emergency latch on the inside of the car where you can’t use it, especially since it is hidden so deep most people can’t find it without the manual.
What’s controversial or unpopular about what I said?
You’re giving Elon Musk’s awful cars the benefit of a doubt by pretending that this isn’t a completely reckless design flaw that should never have existed in the first place, and you are deliberately misinterpreting what “fail open” means to make it sound like a ridiculous solution instead of the industry safety best practice that it actually is.
Also, you’re complaining about downvotes, so expect even more now I guess.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Sure, for the electrical part. But the door as a whole should Fail Open. You can pull over with an open door. You should not have to break the door to escape after a failure.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Three options:
- your statement comes off a bit ignorant - a failsafe would just pop the latch (and up and down motion) and wouldn’t be impacted by braking forces (front and back motion)
- you weren’t explicitly saying bad things about Elon Musk
But the general idea of things still working despite failure is the essence of what the OP was saying. People seem to not like comments that refine what others say (I have plenty of experience there), they prefer comments that either correct or blatantly support the parent comment. I don’t get it, but whatever.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
Whenever essential functions (e.g. access) are powered, they’re supposed to have manual overrides. I’m pretty sure this is a regulatory requirement even here in the States where we’re stupid and regulatory agencies are mostly captured.
So WTF happened, Tesla? Where’s the manual override for when the battery fails?
FaceDeer@fedia.io 4 months ago
Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
That’s for if you’re inside, a mechanical access has to exist on the outside as well, no?
Xtallll@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
Those are inside the car, doesn’t help if there’s a toddler stuck in the car.
tabular@lemmy.world 4 months ago
When has it ever been difficult to get out of a car?? Why does this page exist??
assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s basic safety for industrial plants to designate powered equipment as “fail open” or “fail closed” or on/off. It’s shocking that this wasn’t applied to Tesla cars.
We really need an industry that performs industrial grade HAZOPs on consumer products and publishes a report for everyone to see.
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I had something similar happen to me years ago in a Toyota minivan. The car stalled and died in traffic, some kind of electrical glitch. I got out to raise the hood. The door closed behind me and it came up with just enough battery to lock itself, with my keys in the ignition and my two babies and quadriplegic husband inside. It was 107° outside. And pre-cellphones. I bolted to the nearby gas station to call 911 and grab something to break a window. Meanwhile hubby tried to coach toddler how to wriggle out of car seat and open door, but straps were too snug. Firehouse was near, and the jammed traffic was all in one direction so they used the opposite side and didn’t take long, and they jimmied the door open quickly. But it was boiling in there. Sat the kids by the road to cool off with water and get checked by paramedics, gave water to husband in car with open doors, and waited for a tow to the gas station so I could lower the ramp and get my husband out. Meanwhile of course we made the traffic even worse, but people weren’t too mad when they saw our plight as they squeezed past.
I’m wondering, did some similar glitch happen here, or do Tesla doors lock every time they shut?
assassin_aragorn@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Might be the doors are fail shut if anything happens… But that seems like the worst design ever.
Come to think of it, it’s basic design to designate features as fail closed/fail open on loss of power in an emergency, and you go with what’s inherently safe. It appears Tesla did not consider basic safety design. To no one’s surprise.
Passerby6497@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You’re assuming they didn’t consider it, vs having considered it and thought that its more important to protect property than peoples’ lives. Again, to no one’s surprise.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I design process control equipment for a living and you are 100% correct. When the controller/PLC dies or the power goes out everything goes to a safe state that protects the human. Big part of the design decisions.
jabjoe@feddit.uk 4 months ago
I’m glad that had a happy ending and sorry that happen. Autolock is so dangerous.
limelight79@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Most cars I’ve used with it won’t lock until you put it in drive or start moving at a certain speed; I assume that’s because of incidents like this one.
wagoner@infosec.pub 4 months ago
Tesla model 3 doors do not lock immediately every time they shut. But if you use your cell phone as a key, the default behavior is that they are locked if you walk away with the phone a few yards.
n0clue@lemmy.world 4 months ago
IDK about Tesla but yeah Toyotas like to lock themselves.
poorlytunedAstring@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Auto-lock doors have been a nightmare in general. I always roll a window down at least far enough to stick an arm through every time I get out of a running car because of the one time forever ago that I left a 90s Pontiac Skylark running, shut the door, and it autolocked with the keys in the ignition and the motor running. I had to get my girlfriend to drive me back to my apartment for the spare key while the car was humming away, and I never forgot that. If I wasn’t close to home, with a helpful ride nearby, and a spare key on hand, I’d have been screwed.
Talk about features that need regulated out. All because suburban whites don’t want to remember to lock the doors as they drive through the black neighborhood so the car locks itself whenever you put it in Drive.
Hexarei@programming.dev 4 months ago
Specifically, it’s that the doors opening mechanisms are powered, and the power was not being applied to open them. There is no exterior mechanical entry option.
Mouselemming@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Ah, that is stupid.
Buttons@programming.dev 4 months ago
There was a time I wanted a Tesla, but I don’t anymore. This is just another reason why.
Does Tesla care about making a “neat thing” or do they care about making “a car that can drive me places”. The doors clearly show they prioritize making a “neat thing”, but I want a reliable car.
Opening and closing doors was a solved problem. Somehow Tesla made it worse.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Does Tesla care about making a “neat thing” or do they care about making “a car that can drive me places”
Neither. Care about making money.
ripcord@lemmy.world 4 months ago
One thing about Musk, I think he does care more about making a thing. Money is involved; but mostly because it’s necessary to make the thing.
It’s just that the things he wants to make are increasingly stupid and childish.
laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
Tesla isn’t a car… It’s an EXPERIENCE!!!
(/s just in case it isn’t obvious enough)
suction@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I understand wanting a Tesla maybe 5-6 years ago when they were a little ahead of the competition and the only ones with a big touch screen etc. and people didn’t understand that “self driving” is just a marketing term. And of course Musk hadn’t fully revealed his political agenda.
Not nowadays? Almost all EV are better than Tesla and at the very least buying one doesn’t line the pocket books of a Nazi.
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 4 months ago
In summary, Tesla the company cares about not going bankrupt. Edge they have been walking on since inception. Musk on the other hand cares about money and being on TV non-stop because he’s a narcissist asshole. Problem is, those two have colliding interest because Musk is majority holder now and Tesla has to make what he says in his drug induced and poorly educated rambles. He wasn’t a majority holder for a while thanks to 42.0B$ fuck yea deal with then soon to be announced X but at the time Twitter. Now stock holders voted to give him 40B$ bonus to keep him in “leading role”.
So in short it’s a shitstorm. Stupid car that had a great idea but was ruined by narcissistic manchild. Car which you can only repair in authorized service centers by the way which is something no one talks about. Car that eats away your tires and some people report having to replace tires every six months. And on top of that, you have no spare tire to begin with. That means you run over a nail, tow truck for you it is.
Wahots@pawb.social 4 months ago
Same, but cars in general now. I used to look forward to driving, but now I’m sick of it. Biking and ebikes have made going places fun again :)
todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 4 months ago
The headline rambles a little bit, and by the time I got to “, died”, I thought the toddler was dead.
EddoWagt@feddit.nl 4 months ago
“Arizona toddler rescued…” I dont think a dead child can be rescued anymore
RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural.
mrgreyeyes@feddit.nl 4 months ago
It becomes a repatriation.
radicalautonomy@lemmy.world 4 months ago
“Arizona toddler…died”
Brian Regan once equipped that he had taken a speed-reading course. “Since then, I can read 2000 words per minute. But…my comprehension’s plummeted.”
ripripripriprip@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That’s no accident.
0x0@programming.dev 4 months ago
Not even the door locks are mechanical? So much built-in obsolescence…
ryathal@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I haven’t has a car with mechanical locks in a long time. I’ve also not had a battery so dead the locks didn’t work.
KnowledgeableNip@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
There’s usually some sort of mechanical release for safety for stuff like this.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I have a Toyota where the electronic part of one door has completely failed. It still opens. You shouldn’t have to break out of your own car.
blackn1ght@feddit.uk 4 months ago
Yet.
Wrench@lemmy.world 4 months ago
My wife’s EV has a tiny key that comes out of the dongle, and has a tiny hidden keyhole under the handle.
I had to Google to find it, but it’s sufficient if power is out. It’s a mechanical lock mechanism like cars have had for a century. As it should be.
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
Idiocracy was a prophetic movie, with everything working, eh, like this and planes falling.
LordKitsuna@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It is, people are just stupid, can’t be bothered to read, or even wonder what that lever literally right on the door handle is for.
ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world 4 months ago
[deleted]helenslunch@feddit.nl 4 months ago
Lead acid batteries are notoriously hard to predict when they will fail. Other OEMs also fail at this often.
Tesla upgraded to lithium 12V batts some time ago, which are much more predictable and last 2-3x longer.
AbidanYre@lemmy.world 4 months ago
What other oem hides the mechanical latch?
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
What? No they aren’t. They almost always fail on a curve of power and voltage loss.
Also, I didn’t look it up, but I’d be very surprised if the model Y tesla didn’t require (suggest and oem?) an AGM battery. It’s still lead, but due to how they’re made they can’t get a dead short in them like older regular lead acid batteries can once they get old, although it still isn’t very common for it to happen.
explodicle@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Even if she did receive warnings, she’s a grandmother who easily could miss one of the many messages on the car. It’s just bad design.
Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The ducking DOORS require a charged battery. Fuck that. That decision will age great in the next ten years.
laurelraven@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
It’s worse than that: it requires the old school lead acid 12v battery to be charged, so even if the car’s battery is full, it doesn’t matter if that old car battery has failed
That’s not unique to Tesla EVs, but it being required to open the doors may be (the 12v lead acid runs the general vehicle electronics rather than down converting the 400v or 800v main battery… I don’t understand that decision, but I’m no electronics expert so there may be really good reasons for it…)
nerd_E7A8@programming.dev 4 months ago
Let me start by stating that requiring the battery to open/close doors is a bad design choice overall. There should always be a way to open the door using a physical key.
Ok, having said that, the 12V is a better choice. It’s easier to replace a 12V battery in case it fails and forcing the main battery to power everything runs the risk of draining that. Li-Ion batteries don’t react well to being completely drained.
Besides, all EVs have a way to attach an external battery to the 12V system in case of total power failure, which will then allow you to do whatever you need. In case of Tesla Model Y there are two cables hidden in the tow eye cover that power the hood release. With the hood open you can charge the 12V battery directly.
jonne@infosec.pub 4 months ago
I really don’t understand why they still use those heavy lead acid ones. Couldn’t you at least get a lighter lithium battery if it has to be a separate circuit?
Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I can understand why. I’m guessing it’s for a couple reasons, maybe fluctuations in the voltage depending on driving conditions ( if you’re stomping on the throttle allowing everything to flow through the motors it may provide inconsistent voltage to the sensitive computers and electronics, I would imagine there is a step-down converter somewhere that charges that 12v battery, essentially that battery is used as a buffer. But the link between the big batt. and little batt. isn’t active unless the vehicle is on. And “On” requires the 12v system to turn on computers and close a relay.
Doors relying on ANY electronics is a bad idea. Even most cars with keyless entry have a hidden key somewhere to physically get in the vehicle if the battery dies. If the main battery in a tesla is toast you have bigger problems than a locked door. But anyone who has been driving for more than a few years has likely dealt with an OG battery decides to stop taking a charge. And you probably won’t get much of a warning in an EV that doesn’t have an engine that starts turning over slower and slower.
spookedintownsville@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I know that hybrids like the Prius (at least the older ones) use the inverter to charge the 12v battery with the EV battery to make the ICE beltless (no AC compressor, alternator, etc driven by the ICE) which is supposed to increase fuel efficiency.
thefool@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
There’s a release latch on the doors beside the “open door” buttons. I guess no I’ve else is pointing that out?
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Pretty sure thats on the inside of the car and is actually covered as well. Release latch means shit in this situation, especially since car door design was more or less perfected over a hundred years ago at this point. Change for the sake of change is a damndable concept for tech.
lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de 4 months ago
Is that latch on the inside or the outside?
vox@sopuli.xyz 4 months ago
there’s a mechanical override
obinice@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Why not just open the door with the key like every car ever
tabular@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s so obvious, then again I think there’s some cars out there without even a metal key for the engine. So dumb.
rsuri@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Now imagine this happens in a remote area with no cell coverage. In Arizona those are a thing too.
Yawweee877h444@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I assume Arizona has rocks and bricks and stuff lying around somewhere
nutsack@lemmy.world 4 months ago
what happens when a car catches fire because the electrical system is on fire and you can’t Open the door because it’s electric
nutsack@lemmy.world 4 months ago
it’s really smart to have non-mechanical mechanical parts for things like a door
EnderMB@lemmy.world 4 months ago
A lot of people are giving Tesla shit here, but surely there should be regulations in place to ensure something like this isn’t allowed to be released for public use?
dinckelman@lemmy.world 4 months ago
There should really be a law, requiring a certain list of mechanical things to exist on the car. So far, it’s only the emergency turn signals, and what, the mirrors? The door handles absolutely need to be on that list
cyborganism@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
My 1998 Honda Civic SE hatchback was all manual. Manual windows with the canks, manual door locks, manual steering (no power steering), no braking assist, no assist of ANY kind in fact, and a manual transmission. It was basically an engine, four wheels and a steering wheel.
If EV manufacturers could make cars that are closer to my old Civic, with the only difference being the engine being swapped for an electric motor, I would switch in a heartbeat. For now I’ll stick with my 2010 Mazda 3, which I barely use except for the occasional trip to my family or friends who are out of the city or to do my groceries once a week. Until cars start using manual controls for essentials like door handles and locks, audio systems and temperature control, I want none of it.
I’m already having trouble with touch screen tablets when I’m not driving, let alone when I need to focus on the damn road.
AceBonobo@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I’d love to see a crank on EVs to power the low voltage stuff in emergencies. How many amps does the car startup take? 15A? Maybe bicycle pedals.
pewgar_seemsimandroid@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
where’s the manual door release?
TransplantedSconie@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Wish Version Iron Man:
“Really? Do you think its 2010 again?
This is the fuuuuuuttttuuurrreeee!!!”
snorts Ketamine and twirls out the door
MoistCircuits0698@lemm.ee 4 months ago
This is why I bought an EV with mechanical doors.
ramenshaman@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Really interesting design decision. Was the main battery also dead? I’m guessing not. There’s a step-down converter under the rear seat that outputs 12-16 volts, Tesla could probably have fairly easily set the car up to power the doors from that when the auxiliary 12V battery dies.
DogWater@lemmy.world 4 months ago
These cars all have manual backups.
The question is how easy is it to use?
xc2215x@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Glad the toddler could be saved.
_sideffect@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Does the indoor lever (hidden) not work without the battery too?
linearchaos@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yeah, My volt battery is in the floor of the trunk. If the battery on the volt dies you can’t open the trunk easily. Physical locks in the doors are no problem but they didn’t put a keyhole on the damn trunk.
You can pop the hood and access the jump terminals and then pop the trunk. You can also crawl into the back hatch from inside pull a panel off and pop the trunk.
StaySquared@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Did the batter die from extreme heat or due to the driver failing to charge the vehicle promptly?
Nougat@fedia.io 4 months ago
Just so nobody thinks someone left a kid in the car and then went into a store or something. Tesla should be paying for the broken window repair at the very least.
Ghostalmedia@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Also, this is similar to a use case that Telsa likes to promote. They allow you to leave the climate on while the car is locked.
This makes me never want to trust the dog and camp modes they advertise.
Image
Nougat@fedia.io 4 months ago
In this specific example, I believe the driver buckled the child, closed the door, then was unable to open any door before starting the vehicle. Is it possible to either start the vehicle or at least turn on the climate control from outside? If not, this was a horribly dangerous situation.
IMongoose@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I think I just saw an article saying that dog mode is currently broken lol