EXPLAIN! Image
USB inventor explains why the connector was not designed to be reversible
Submitted 1 year ago by ooli@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.pcgamer.com/usb-inventor-explains-why-the-connector-was-not-designed-to-be-reversible/
Comments
isles@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Kichae@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
The picture explains itself. The cable exists in a 4-dimensional space.
tetris11@kbin.social 1 year ago
The reply is pretty self-explanatory too. The cable exists in a 4-dimensional space.
rasensprenger@feddit.de 1 year ago
It doesn’t necessarily need to be 4-dimensional en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spinor
chaorace@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
USB-A is a spin-half connector type
Tosti@feddit.nl 1 year ago
Schrödingers USB cable. It exists in neither state untill you verify it after the second try.
Vodik_VDK@lemmy.world 1 year ago
USB-A walked so USB-C could fly.
MataVatnik@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Usb-c gang
TWeaK@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I just wish they didn’t come with chips inside our cables.
cheery_coffee@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
I hate USB-C because until now the standard didn’t require any markings and the standards themselves are hot garbage.
Go ahead, pull out a USB-C cable from your drawer and tell me what it does. I bet you instantly know which cable is VGA, HDMI, DisplayPort, FireWire, or serial, but you’ll never know for sure what your USB-C cable supports.
You got reversibility but at what price?
Empricorn@feddit.nl 1 year ago
Naw, USB-A is much more secure. I plug that end into my power bank, throw it in a bag or my pocket, and it’ll disconnect maybe 1 time out of the 100 that the USB-C or Lightning end does. It is a little larger, though.
Ejh3k@lemmy.world 1 year ago
About a decade ago or so, I found myself in a reddit argument with someone that claimed they had never attempted to plug a USB in unsuccessfully. They said that every single time they’ve plugged in, it was the correct way. Some people are insane.
justJanne@startrek.website 1 year ago
Honestly, with high quality USB A plugs you could feel the logo on the side that was “up”, and if you knew which side your motherboard or front panel considered “up”, it’d be easy to always plug devices in correctly.
Just that the vast majority of manufacturers stopped caring relatively early on, which meant you couldn’t rely on it anymore.
mayo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The logo isn’t that reliable but it’s usually slim side up. Not sure about sideways ports though.
Ejh3k@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Which is why that person is/was a massive liar.
hcbxzz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Perhaps a controversial opinion here, but the usefulness of reversibility is vastly overrated. It’s not a game changer, just tiny first-world luxury that’s nice to have, but it does it by introducing a bunch of unnecessary complexity that I’d rather avoid. Not worth the trade off IMO.
Ejh3k@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m happier with how long usb c last before they start getting finicky than I am the reversiblity.
Socsa@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
The issue is that USBC was the first standard to really take the mechanical design process seriously in a consumer context. In doing so, it was made both way more ergonomic and way more durable. I’d argue that without the focus on some of these “small but marketable” consumer-oriented bits, we would not have gotten the great overall connector design we did.
p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Yes, you’re right. That was controversial.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I am just laughing here because I spent the day dealing with ancient serial tech pigtails and DB9s. You people have no idea the pain of losing multiple days of your life trying to get RS-232 to work. Especially when stuff doesn’t follow the standards it is supposed to follow.
echodot@feddit.uk 1 year ago
They’re supposed to label the USBs so that you can tell which side is the top side and which side is the bottom side.
The problem is that a they often don’t label them and, B I can’t remember which way round it’s supposed to go anyway, so it wouldn’t help.
SnipingNinja@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
Most things I have are labelled properly, and I’m only hedging my bets by saying most because I can’t think of anything I own that isn’t labelled properly
stardreamer@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
- Attempt to plug in the USB A device
- If you succeed. End procedure
- Otherwise, destroy the reality you currently reside in. All remaining universes are the ones where you plugged in the device on the first try.
That wasn’t so hard, was it?
martinb@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
I feel like that’s a way to rapidly run out of spare universes
Wrench@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Did you burn the witch?
thorcik@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah, that’s an easier test, you don’t need huge scales and a duck
LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well if you only plugged one USB in your life you have a 50% chance of never having plugged it in wrong.
jormaig@programming.dev 1 year ago
Well, I rarely fail because I look inside the connector and see where the plastic is and then plug it properly. I tend to fail when I cannot see inside the connector because it’s in a weird spot.
I guess the redditor was either bragging about always looking inside or was a kid
eratic@feddit.uk 1 year ago
I wouldn’t say it’s never happened to me but 99% of the time it works. I just look at the idents, face it right way up, and shove it in
Ejh3k@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Overall not a huge deal to get it wrong occasionally, but to lie that you’ve never attempted to plug a USB in the wrong way up is insane.
Squids@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
I mean if you tend to plug things in at the same computer a lot it’s pretty easy to always plug things in right the first time, even when not looking because you just kinda know what way it’s meant to be. And laptops usually have all theirs pointing the same way so you know one you know them all. If something has text on it, it’s usually oriented in such a way that when plugged in you can read it.
I have a similar “power” and while I’m not flawless, it’s only really new or unfamiliar devices/computers that trip me up. Or plugs that don’t actually have any identifying features and/or unusual ones
dogslayeggs@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That person is either a flat out liar, or they are incredibly anal and waste a lot of time looking at the connector and input every single time they connect a cable.
Duamerthrax@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I don’t really have a problem looking at the connector before plugging it in. I thought this was an overblown meme.
anlumo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you can see through the two rectangular cutouts on the plug, it’s the right way around. Unfortunately, this doesn’t help if the plug is turned 90°, and also some computers have it upside down (looking at you, GPD).
c0mbatbag3l@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If it’s on a laptop I could see it. The empty half almost always needs to be on top on the male side because the female end is almost always plastic on top.
Ibex0@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I wonder how that redditor is doing now? Still batting 1.000 with USB A adapters?
edgemaster72@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Somewhat understandable, but they could’ve also done something like HDMI and DisplayPort and gone with a shape that could only plug in one way. It might not have been “as cheap as possible” but probably not as much added expense as the extra wiring and stuff. (maybe, idk shit about manufacturing)
Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Asymmetry for ergonomics in these cases is very overrated.
Try to unplug and replug monitor or tv cables while reaching around behind. Even the big chonky power cable starts gettng usb a properties as it takes two rotations to get it to fit.
lolcatnip@reddthat.com 1 year ago
The problem there is at least as much from how hard it is to twist the cables as it is from the connector shape. The asymmetric connector is still better than nothing.
I can think of some examples of asymmetric connectors that work great: mini USB; North American 3-prong power plugs; old school PC video, serial, and game ports; original NES controller connections, etc.
nocturne213@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I really wish hdmi was symmetrical. (Peer behind tv, “which way goes up?” Tries to plug it in, “fml it was the other way” flips it drops it)
smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
I wish too, mainly because HDMI cables are much less flexible and twisting them 180° can create tention.
sverit@feddit.de 1 year ago
Unfortunately HDMI already uses pins on both sides of the connector, so you would have to shrink them to half their size first, then double them.
ChaoticNeutralCzech@feddit.de 1 year ago
Not all asymmetric port designs are good. SCART was capable – HDMI of the 1990s-2000s – but you cannot really feel where one ends and another begins with 2-3 of them in the rear of almost every TV and VCR sold in Europe back then. They carried flawless RGB video, two-way composite A/V, remote control signals etc. However, they were bulky (why 21 individually shielded wires instead of twisted pairs?), expensive and got loose easily. This was before digital technology that enabled error correction and multiplexing.
MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 1 year ago
But in practical use, people found out that even a 50/50 chance of plugging the connector in the right way is annoying enough to warrant the additional complexity of reversability, hence the development of USB Type C.
The USB-C design turned out to be much more durable and versatile (signal and power wise) in addition to reversability compared to the previous USB designs, and it is developed specifically to address the problems people found with USB-A/B/MicroUSB.
Sometimes problems only reveal themselves through real life usage, and iterative improvement through a scientific trial and error process to address these problem is how you get development progress.
MeekerThanBeaker@lemmy.world 1 year ago
For USB-A, it’s usually not even 50/50. It’s the witchcraft superposition when the first two tries don’t work.
MargotRobbie@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It always works the third time, 60 percent of the time.
OneOrTheOtherDontAskMe@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah, people don’t take into account quantum positioning, pass-through phenomenon, or the fact that I can’t “see” when I plug it in wrong and that makes me think maybe my fingers are dumb and I missed the hole and not that I need to reverse it and try again.
echodot@feddit.uk 1 year ago
USB-C has more connectors for data and power than A/B so it’s not a surprise that it’s more capable.
What’s really changed is demand. No one really expected USB to be used to power everything, it was only ever really expected to be used on computers and maybe digital cameras, smartphones used to arrange matters for themselves. It was only when they two began to adopt USB that calls for smaller ports started to arise.
SilverFlame@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I wish it was 50/50. A lot of the time it wouldn’t plug in so I flipped it. Still didn’t work so I flipped it back to the original orientation and it magically plugs in.
418teapot@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Can someone explain to me why I keep reading about people having problems plugging in USB A connectors upside down? I feel like I’m taking crazy pills. Per the spec, the holes always go up. They indicate the correct way to plug in the port.
The only time this is SLIGHTLY confusing is if you have a desktop tower where the motherboard is essentially mounted sideways, but for that case it just takes an extra second to think which way is “up” from the perspective of the motherboard.
vivadanang@lemm.ee 1 year ago
they should just go with perfectly circular, with different sizes for different applications. imagine a 10mm unit - high power/bandwidth hoses with a satisfying locking mechanism that magnetically seals the connection.
and makes the proton pack sound. and rgb fuck nevermind go back this was a bad idea
Tibert@jlai.lu 1 year ago
Circular isn’t a great idea, and here are most of the idea why it is not : …stackexchange.com/…/why-dont-we-have-a-circular-…
USB required to have a stable connexion, as it’s a digital signal and not an analog as jack ports, which just sends curent through it. Rotating the connector could maybe introduce issues for signal integrity.
The usb connector has much more connectors than a jack port. It would take a very long hole to fit them all. (usb 3+, usb C…)
Size constraint. USB C is flat, a round port is not. So it’s bigger in 1 way, but smaller in the other, and so creates more design challenges.
ilinamorato@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Charge your electric vehicle with USB-H (“H” for Huge)
LufyCZ@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Wouldn’t fit very well into something like a smartphone though
rDrDr@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s not an issue of not being reversible. The problem is that it is symmetrical without being reversible. HDMI and DisplayPort are much less annoying. Even USB Type B (printer cables) is relatively easy to figure out orientation for.
atzanteol@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I get why it’s not reversible. But why the hell is it not keyed so that is obvious which orientation is correct? A small, cheap, notch would have worked wonders.
sanguine_artichoke@midwest.social 1 year ago
the decision was made to go with a design that, in theory, would give users a 50/50 chance of plugging it in correctly
How could it be less than that? If it was triangular?
lloram239@feddit.de 1 year ago
How many other plugs are reversible? HDMI and DisplayPort aren’t. Older stuff like scsi, gameports, parallel and serial ports and the like weren’t, and could even destroy your hardware if plugged into the wrong thing. Firewire and GameboyLink weren’t. Barrel plugs are insertable every way you want, but only have two contacts. And 3.5mm jacks slide over all the pins, which might not be great if you plan on carrying power.
Lightning and USB Type-C are reversible, but that’s the only one I can think of. And the inoffiziell rarely seen reversible USB Type-A (when were those first released?).
MondayToFriday@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
What a pathetic excuse. You know what’s at the other end of a USB-A cable? A USB-B connector that didn’t have the symmetry problem. Also, Firewire existed around the same time (in fact, slightly earlier) and didn’t have the symmetry problem.
orclev@lemmy.world 1 year ago
TL:DR; It was cheaper and they figured if it didn’t work you could flip it over and try again. So it’s mildly inconvenient to save a few cents on manufacturing each connector and to limited the number is conductors to 4, something it turns out was a bad idea anyway because newer USB standards use more than 4 conductors.
florge@feddit.uk 1 year ago
Making USB reversible to begin with would have necessitated twice as many wires and twice as many circuits, and would have doubled the cost. Bhatt says his team was aware at the time of the frustration that a rectangular design could have, versus a round connector. But in an effort to keep it as cheap as possible, the decision was made to go with a design that, in theory, would give users a 50/50 chance of plugging it in correctly (you can up the odds by looking at the inside first, or identifying the logo).
Fedizen@lemmy.world 1 year ago
the problem is the plug is rectangular (has exterior rotational symmetry) AND not reversible - if the plugs were L shaped it would be clear by both feel and brief glance which rotation was correct
sebinspace@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I learned a long time ago that it takes three licks to get to the Tootsie Roll center of a Tootsie Pop, because commercial breaks during Saturday morning cartoons told me so. Sometime later, I also learned that “three” is usually the magic number for correctly plugging in a USB Type-A device.
……what the fuck?
TenderfootGungi@lemmy.world 1 year ago
To save a penny on each connector. The USB group is ran by hardware manufacturers. They do not have innovation as a core value.
Jeanschyso@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Reminds me of how we used to change the order of the wires in PC to PC connections on early RJ45 cables. What a fucking pain in the ass that was for colorblind like myself.
Perrin42@kbin.social 1 year ago
I actually have some USB-A to USB-C cables from DeWalt with reversible USB-A connectors. Certainly no reason other companies couldn't have built them that way.
Pulptastic@midwest.social 1 year ago
But why is USB C directional? One phone I have won’t charge if the cord is in one orientation but fast charges in the other orientation.
praise_idleness@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I honestly never had issues with most of the usb devices. The side with two holes is the upper side.
NightLily@lemmy.basedcount.com 1 year ago
That’s such a simple reason and makes so much sense.
Siegfried@lemmy.world 1 year ago
TL;DR: its cheaper that way,
And i value that decision
MeanEYE@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I can bet you it’s incompetence. They failed upwards. Sure, protocol is great and universal, but connector is atrocious and it has nothing to do with cost. Few points in favor of this hypothesis:
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Initially, the plastic inside the connector was white. They started to use black to denote USB2.0 devices, and USB2.0 rapidly became the standard. They at least tried to do something similar with blue plastic with USB3.0.
It’s basically the only example I can think of where the plug and socket are rotationally symmetrical without also being reversible. That’s the kind of thing where I ask “did you test this before you shipped it?” Thirty years later we’re still plagued by the damn thing.
sachabe@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Also a male USB 2 plug fits perfectly into a RJ45 slot :-/ In my days of tech support, I’ve seen multiple people plugging their USB printer cable into the network slot of their computer and it’s a perfect fit so they were always convinced they didn’t do anything wrong… That’s clearly a design flaw while all other connectors have distinct sizes.
p03locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
I agree with most of your post, but micro B is a step too far. That fucking plug was always inserted with the following procedure:
Always, always, always.
Wogi@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Hindsight is 20/20. You’re raising every issue with the original USB plug, then proceed to highlight how they addressed these issues going forward.
You’re describing inexperience and calling it incompetence.
NewPerspective@lemmy.world 1 year ago
New question: why did it have rotational symmetry?
fluxion@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Because fuck you that’s why
ook_the_librarian@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Cheaper. Anything other questions?
RagingRobot@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Oversight
some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
Considering the much higher cost of production then vs now, it makes complete sense. The economy of scale took care of that problem with time.