Submitted 9 months ago by Starglasses@lemmy.blahaj.zone to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
Instead of the perfectly-fine “expired” food going to the dumpster, feed people. Help the community.
Counter thought: food banks shouldnt be necessary because society should protect its weakest from starvation in an orderly manner and not by volunteer work and donations.
The people I have helped with at food banks were not at risk of literal starving they were at risk of eating the same 3 things all the time. Most of us take it for granted having a mind that works like this. Go buy ingredients and follow a recipe, try new ones, some diversity in diet. Instead of just buying endless jars of peanutbutter and crackers.
My local one is working on more mealkit type solutions. Here is everything you need and a paper recipe.
Kinda makes me sad. More food stamp money is probably not going to fix that problem, not sure what can be done. Maybe social workers setting up basic cooking classes?
I always wondered about this after an experiment we did in school many many years ago where we were asked how far back we had to go to be able to prevent society’s current problems, everything from poverty to class warfare to polarized politics. It always seemed to boil down to an overpopulation problem. Granted, it was just a school experiment, but basically Thanos was right since you can’t really double resources but you can have too many people.
People were poorer when they were less of us.
I always am wary of a solution to every problem or a cause behind all effects because I don’t see it ever being the case. Civilization is emergent not intentional, it would be shocking if it didn’t she problems.
“[Solution] shouldn’t exist because we should just have a perfect world instead.”
Every grocery store running a food bank and distributing food to the hungry is equally unrealistic. If we’re throwing out absurd solutions to horrifying problems, it would be better to address the root cause rather than the symptoms.
Having proper social care is not part of a perfect world. it is also quite easily achievable. The US is deliberately starving its poor and adressinf this as the main issue is more effective than creating laws to regularize food banks.
So putting myself into an asshole NIMBY's shoes: I bet a lot of people don't want to admit that they would prefer not to rub shoulders with people who needed foodbanks. And that is likely a major reason why a store wouldn't do this.
Also you'd need to staff it and if the food is free, that's an expense. Also the store space could be used for other merchandise so you're paying for a bigger footprint and to light, heat, cool, and clean it. I've been to some food banks and rarely are they in nice modern buildings.
I agree that it should happen instead of food being wasted. Those are just the reasons it wouldn't happen in a commercial store. I think a better idea would be to strictly regulate what food is allowed to be thrown out vs mandatory donating with huge fines for intentional contamination or waste.
If you talk to people about homelessness, they will readily admit they just don't want to see it. If go to any cheaper grocery store you definitely are rubbing shoulders with people who use foodbanks. Food insecurity doesn't go away just because you have a roof over your head.
The rub is a foodbank in a grocery store will attract the more visible "unreliable access to showers" type of user, which would be unacceptable.
I pick up food for two families at a food bank every week. There are pretty much the same people there every week (it’s a weekly pop up instance in a church parking lot). There are like, two homeless people out of about two hundred people. They are 99% young Latino families. They are the working poor. Homeless people don’t really have a way to manage 5 pounds of carrots, 5 cauliflowers, a box of pasta, a dozen eggs and a big frozen chicken.
Homeless people go to the soup kitchens for hot prepared meals.
I get that, but then those “undesirsbles” can be directed to help. At first yea, lots of grimy people could show up. With time as those people get help, you’ll see less and less. Change takes time. This change would be like removing a dsm. A crazy surge of water, but then it calms to be the beautiful river it can be :)
The thing is people don’t realize who needs food banks. They may not be aware their kids best friend, their coworker, etc. may be in need.
I rub shoulders with Food Bank people all the time on my commute and they aren’t the ones you worry about.
Putting my NIMBY hat on as well to add. There’s another component that if people realize they can get their groceries for free at their local store, why would they go to the side that asks you to pay? Obviously this would be a net positive as more people in need will have access, but there will be some not-in-need who will take advantage. Grocery stores tend to have thin margins, so this may make a formerly profitable store unprofitable, which may reduce quality or shutter stores.
Putting hypothetical profits before human needs is a problem. I’m not saying you don’t have an argument. Just commenting that that is what is being said.
The same reason why most people don’t go to homeless shelters to get a bowl of free soup. Most of us understand that free food is for people who need free food.
NIMBY away. Those are all great reasons. They all revolve around the store keeping its money though. The point is that they use their money to help their community and not their golden horde.
Change makes people angry, but time softens the view and people will adapt.
This would be a good thing, though I think it’s trickier than it appears:
I mean, to the last bullet, we have good Samaritan laws. We could totally pass a law that says “grocery stores can and should provide reasonably safe, leftover food to poor people and will not be punished if those reasonable actions result in bad things happening”. You are allowed to just wail on an unconscious dudes chest for minutes until paramedics arrive and then not be sued for the three cracked ribs.
But cmon. We all know that grocery stores know that once people realize expired food is generally safe a) people will buy less food and b) people will show up to get free expired food and buy less food.
Scarcity is a necessity under capitalism. Movie theaters aren’t going to release blooper reels for free. They add them to the credits or put them in the editors cut release. A luxury clothing brand isn’t going to sell seconds, they will destroy or rework material that isn’t sellable.
I work in retail. Stuff already goes to food banks. The dates on those products are usually the sell by date, and quite arbitrary. They’re mostly for quality sake, rather than “not safe to consume” sake. Like a loaf of bread may not be as moist and soft as it was when it was fresh, but it’s perfectly fine to eat. Stale Oreos are better than no cookies at all. Companies want you to be able to buy a product and expect consistent quality.
Agree 100%
Not that it is expected to be content with stale oreos, but yea. Some is better than none :)
It also ignores the big issue of distribution.
A Kroger is not equipped to handle distribution of food to those in need. And I will 100% guarantee you that if they just leave the dumpsters unlocked, it will mostly be upper middle class college kids “dumpster diving” who grab the food… until one of them gets stabbed and the entire program is shut down forever.
I would like to see more effort to work with local charities and food banks to donate food but… a surprising number of supermarkets already do that. The issue is that there just aren’t enough food banks because NIMBYs kill them out of fear it will lead to “too many homeless people. and poors”. Which gets back to the issue of trying to get food to centralized locations which increase costs, cause issues with food that is fine if it is kept refrigerated, etc.
Like, for as massively fucked as it is to see an entire aisle of cereal get thrown into a bin and the latch locked, that is not “the problem”. The problem is that we as a society do everything we can to make life inhospitable for the less well off in the hopes that they die and go away.
Yet! A Kroger isn not equipped to handle it yet. Work needs to be put into the idea, a plan will form, and then it can be executed.
I feel like too many people read idealistic future plans and assume it will be inmediate and therefore dismiss the idea entirely. Have hope :)
Also, distribution problem? The food is literally already there.
A note: stores throw out unexpired goods all the time.
As for food safety, yup, that’s important. Some goods could be too risky, like raw meat. But so so many goods are processed and stay good long past the expiry.
Expiry does take into account oxygen. Once you open a bag, air gets in and then it could get stale, mold, etc. If it has been sealed in its package the whole time, there was never any (*a lot of) air to start those food-ruining things.
That would be unbusinesslike
It isn’t though. Some already donate non-perishables they don’t sell to community food banks for the tax write-off. Running it yourself would just be an extension of that and would be a huge PR plus. I think if we made food donations equivalent to being able to write it off as an inventory loss they would be more likely to do it.
Afaik the reason they refuse to give away food in power outages is precisely that. If they have to trash it then it is a total loss and they can write it off at cost, if they donate it then only a portion of the value is counted.
Weirdly, by coincidence, I stumbled across an old article about food waste today:
Why would I buy food if it’s free?
In the US the expired food goes to charity
That’s an extreme claim. Not believable.
Well its true here in Colorado at least
Second harvest is a charity that specializes in exactly this.
They pick up food from grocery stores and distribute it.
There are chapters of second harvest across north america
Really just depends on the store and where you are. Stores can get tax breaks for it.
The local Safeway offers it to charity, compost or livestock feed for the farms nearby. All you have to do is head inside and ask.
Per capita the US wastes more food than any other country… I just made that up but sounds about right.
Ok, I guess? I think golf resorts should stop filling their swimming pools with insulin. That sounds about right.
In a perfect world maybe. We threw out a ton when I worked at 1 ~ 5 years ago.
I’m sure it depends on the store and region
I worked produce in a supermarket for a little while. Our expired food was sent out to be used as animal feed. Not as good as charity but still a fine use for expired food.
Actually I work at Walmart and the expired food that’s still reasonable to eat we donate
Still a shit ton of edibles food ends up trashed tho Everything that we can’t freeze p much
I’m happy to hear your store does some donating. This is what we’re aiming for as a first step :)
Food should be a human right and be free
I agree. Necessities should be free.
In the UK some stores have pre packaged food at the entrance ready to be picked up for free. This is the food bank alternative.
It’s good food, not crap either.
This is the law in France. They have to donate unsold food to foodbanks.
I don’t know how effective it is, but it’s much more civilized than throwing bleach on food.
This is why I feel good churches need to be supported as they are normally the ones bankrolling this kind of thing, anything that human being requires to survive should be provided free of charge in my opinion. The fact that we still want to make a buck off of human suffering is a failure of humanity as a species
It’s important to know that food insecurity is not a money problem. It’s a political one.
We have the funds, logistics, technology to solve food insecurity for everyone on the planet today. The reason we don’t is politics.
I keep trying to tell people that a post scarcity Society is not this ridiculous utopian fiction, it could be the reality today, no exaggeration, if billionaires not apply the logic that their power means nothing if they can’t abuse people
On the contrary; that’s part of the problem. Receiving charity should not be conditioned upon – or even perceived to be conditioned upon – allowing oneself to be exposed to religious proselytizing. In fact, I’d go so far as to say that Government shirking its responsibility to provide for the general welfare and allowing religious institutions to take up that slack should be seen as a violation of the separation between church and state.
Actually if you took a look at how many of them are set up, the vast majority of them do not require you to attend church services. And are held at completely separate times service, typically only requireing some form of identification.
I’m a member of a church that runs a large food pantry. Even with lots of donations, grants, and steeply discounted food, it still takes a lot of money, resources, and manpower (volunteers) to make it happen. Our client count is at an all time high and steadily growing. A food pantry is not a “business” you really want to see grow but I’m glad it’s there for people who need it.
That’s basically what I’m saying, we should not need food banks, but it is good that they are there for those who need them.
Churches in concept are amazing. They are a place for people to gather and learn about morals and ethics and such, to bond with the community. And then there is(maybe) free food after service where you can eat and chat with other people.
And the other services they can provide, like food banking, homeless help, counseling, community space, being a safe space, a refuge with resources. I’m glad there are some institutions doing it. I hope they are the snowball that triggers the avalanche, but so many churches are money vacuums draining their communities :(
I would love to see more churches climb to the top and better their commuities. I choose to be hopeful. One step at a time :)
I think you failed to understand what churches do…
True Mega Churches tend to be nothing but griffs, but you should try the old school brick and mortar, pews made of wood, kind.
In fact religious groups in general typically are the ones getting the most done on charity work.
That’s exactly what they do already for 99% of the food. Not everything is donatable, but the vast majority of it is. They get tax relief back, so they have financially incentive to do so.
99%? Is there any data to back that up? I see incredible amounts of waste just where I am. I can’t imagine a number even close to 99 is true.
It depends on who you poll as well. If you only talk to stores that do it and ignore the ones that don’t, your averages are going to be misinformed data skewed too high. I dunno.
99 is an unreasonable number so I don’t believe you.
I can tell you 99% is what I donated out of everything I got rid of. I donated well over $1k+ a day, it was a big store. Rest went to pig farms or whatever it went lol.
I worked at a grocery store as a supervisor for a few years and 90% of food was thrown away rather than donated. They still donated a fair bit of food to the local food bank weekly, but the vast majority just got thrown out. Anecdotal obviously.
I like how we both supplied anecdotal evidence, but they’re agreeing with you more just because of the conclusion they want to come to
I imagine it depends from store to store. But if anything that’s probably why we should have some kind of requirement and fines for not donating rather than an incentive to donate.
I know Grocers in NJ already donate items to food banks. I just looked up a food bank not too far from me and they claim 25% of their food is donated from local grocery stores.
Great! Donating to established food banks is excellent as well. I hope to see more following the example.
I’m not sure you understand how capitalism works. Anywho, wanna be an anarcho-syndicalist with me?
Oh I understand capitalism. I want to break it down. This can be one of the steps. I will totally discuss your views of you want. The government can eat a rock.
I think we got our wires crossed. Have a great day, Comrade!
Expired food is not perfectly fine, only a demented fool would consider giving it to already weakened people or somebody who could not deal with the consequences of food intoxication
Here's a great podcast from NPR about the expiration dates, and what means what in the world of best by labels.
Link: Best by sell by use by
https://www.npr.org/2022/07/15/1111850221/best-by-sell-by-use-by
I’m with you as far as “humans deserve food that won’t make ‘em sick, regardless of circumstances” but expired food can often still be fine - you just are outside of the manufacturer’s guarantee that it should still be good.
When I gotta choose between “expired food” and “nothing”, I choose to give expired food the visual + sniff + small taste test before consuming.
They already do that, dude.
What do you think they do with all that stuff? They don’t toss it out, that’s stupid. You know how expensive it is to pay for a garbage truck to come pick up the trash compactor dumpsters they have and replace it with another? Why pay to throw stuff out when they can get tax credit for donating that stuff.
Walmart does this as long as it’s still generally safe. There are so many laws about refrigeration, tho, that is why so much gets thrown out. A refrigerated product has been out of the fridge for 30+ minutes? It’s not safe to sell or consume, according to the government. According to my stomach, it’s just fine.
Mbourgon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This is how our local food bank does it. When you give money to them, you’re not actually buying groceries. You’re paying for trucks, gasoline and drivers who go to the various grocery’s’ warehouses, who take what is nearing “throw out” and make it available for people.
This is why I laugh whenever a local grocery store has a “hunger food drive“ - there, you are literally just buying groceries for other people. Whereas our food bank prides itself on being able to feed people for $.20 a meal - it’s a huge force multiplier.
Give to your local area food bank.
sploosh@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I do exactly this for a job. Some stores give lots of good stuff, some treat us like a garbage company.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Mine wants food but they want food on their list. Yes I have volunteered and donated to them. And yes I am aware that they are the exception not the norm.